Green Party been Wiped out locally

Villain

It looks like the Green Party could get as little as 3 seats in the local elections, they have lost all their seats in Dublin.

The Green Party are in real Danger of Following the PD's, and actually some of the ex PD's have done well this time out.

So the longer the Green's stay the worse it could get? or can they sit out and hope they can swing it around in the next 2 or 3 years risking that FG and Labour may have enough seats that they won't need the Greens leaving the greens sitting very lonely on the opposition benches?

paconnors

Yes Great result, wonder what gormally is thinking now, will the greens pull out now

Red Alert

They know the game is up so I reckon they'll hang on as long as possible. Eamonn Ryan and Gormley both know that they won't be ministers after the next election.

ShooterSF

Derlighted. What the hell does a country of 4 million people need a green party for anyway? Sure be environmental but there's no need for such a huge emphasis on it.
Maybe that will come across as ignorant. I'm not suggesting we abandon green issues but we have to be realistic globally we don't have a big enough effect that we should make green issues a priority. Economics, health and social issues are more important (not necissarily (sp?) in that order).

Akrasia

hate to say I told them so.....


The greens should never have gone into power with FF. If they had done the honourable thing and stayed out of government, FF's government would have collapsed by now and the greens would have been able to pick up seats in the subsequent GE.

As of now, they're wiped out, and will probably try to cling to power for as long as they can because they know they will never get elected to anything ever again.

gerky

ShooterSF wrote: »

Derlighted. What the hell does a country of 4 million people need a green party for anyway? Sure be environmental but there's no need for such a huge emphasis on it.
Maybe that will come across as ignorant. I'm not suggesting we abandon green issues but we have to be realistic globally we don't have a big enough effect that we should make green issues a priority. Economics, health and social issues are more important (not necissarily (sp?) in that order).

So you follow the do as I say not as I do type of environmental protection, why should we expect other countries to limit their levels of pollution when per capita we're way way above most other countries.

Red Alert

I gave Eamonn Ryan a tactical no. 1 vote in the last general election, because I thought it would ensure that FG+Labour+Green would make up the next government. I'll never vote for him personally or for any green party candidate in the near future.

ShooterSF

gerky wrote: »

So you follow the do as I say not as I do type of environmental protection, why should we expect other countries to limit their levels of pollution when per capita we're way way above most other countries.

Why should we expect them to anymore just because we do it? We aren't that influential on a global scale. Other countries will do what they are going to regardless of us.

spudwiser

Not liking the hate on this thread - they are probably years ahead of every on else.

I believe they were always going to be affected but their assossiation with FF.

20goto10

It's a disgrace what is happening to the Greens. The level of ignorance in voters is all too aparant once again. Why should the Greens be punished for what Fiana Fail have done? The Greens are coming up with some great initiatives. There is big money in Green economics and to just brush it all aside as unimportant is just plain ignorance.

Fine Gael and Labour...jesus christ talk about going from bad to worse.

latenia

I asked John Gormley directly on my own doorstep if he would go into government with Fianna Fáil when he was canvassing before the last general election. He replied that they wouldn't in a million years and proceeded to describe 2 individual ministers as crooks that he could never have anything to do with. I know all politicians are lying scumbags but to have it done to my face like that really made my blood boil. I'm looking forward to seeing him when he comes asking for my vote again at the next GE.

henryporter

It was unfortunate that the Greens got into bed with Fianna Fail in the first place, particularly as they didn't have the critical mass to sustain the losses in Local Authority seats like their counterparts. Amazing how they have suffered more the brunt of the electorates ire than the FFers. Amazing too how people still seem to vote for parties rather than people especially in local elections. It's hard to have sympathy for the Greens - they got involved in the wrong coalition. It is sad to see our local green councillor losing his seat though because he worked hard and was trying to instigate small amounts of change and improvement, while the rest of the silverbacks who got back in will continue to interfere in planning applications, zoning, and so on. Maybe it's proof that we still haven't reached the bottom of the barrel politically, socially, economically or environmentally when we're still prepared to put a lot of the same old muppets back in local power

holidayhere

paconnors wrote: »

Yes Great result, wonder what gormally is thinking now, will the greens pull out now

I am delighted.
There policies were no addition to this country.

is_that_so

20goto10 wrote: »

It's a disgrace what is happening to the Greens. The level of ignorance in voters is all too aparant once again. Why should the Greens be punished for what Fiana Fail have done? The Greens are coming up with some great initiatives. There is big money in Green economics and to just brush it all aside as unimportant is just plain ignorance.

Fine Gael and Labour...jesus christ talk about going from bad to worse.

That's probably the same "ignorance" which put them in, in the first place. If it's not obvious to you now it never will be. It's also a bit disingenuous to blame others when results go against you.

20goto10

holidayhere wrote: »

I am delighted.
There policies were no addition to this country.

What are their policies? See if you can reply without googling it first :rolleyes:

Villain

Eamonn Ryan getting very hot under the collar on RTE 1, he is fighting for his Cabinet seat because he surely knows now that the Green Party rank and file members will believe going into Government with FF was a huge mistake.

We had serious Surplus of money over the last 12 years that could have been invested in Green issues but now we are fighting to keep this country from going bankrupt, there may be a time in the future for Green issues but right now its about survival, Green jobs are great any jobs are great but they are not an excuse to prop up a Government that has failed the people.

Ludo

I have always voted for the Greens in every election I could up to now. When they lied and went into coalition with FF, that ended it for me. Then they show themselves a clueless by bringing out this parking levy thing which no-one understands and they don't know how to implement. They got nothing from me in these elections.

I may go back to them, if they have the balls to bring down the government! They need to regain my trust by not lying about things like not entering a coalition with FF and then doing just that.

turgon

I think the hatred nationwide is bordering on ignorance.

I don't see how people here cant see that the greens make up a mere 7% of government. They are not going to be that influential. And we even saw their influence two days ago - is two days beyond the memories of the posters here? The very fact we had 2 by-elections was solely because of the greens. And the extended elections times (7am - 10pm) allowed many like my brother to vote when they couldn't have otherwise.

Greens are lot better than FF. Its FF's sole fault the mess is so big, and the greens are compensating for that. I admire the fact they had the balls to go into government rather than taking the cowardly way I know most people here probably would have.

At least they are affecting minute change - which is a lot more they would have done on the opposition benches.

is_that_so

spudwiser wrote: »

Not liking the hate on this thread - they are probably years ahead of every on else.

I believe they were always going to be affected but their assossiation with FF.

There may be some hate. However it's more a case of reaping what you sow and not understanding who voted for you and why.

henryporter wrote: »

It was unfortunate that the Greens got into bed with Fianna Fail in the first place, particularly as they didn't have the critical mass to sustain the losses in Local Authority seats like their counterparts. Amazing how they have suffered more the brunt of the electorates ire than the FFers. Amazing too how people still seem to vote for parties rather than people especially in local elections. It's hard to have sympathy for the Greens - they got involved in the wrong coalition. It is sad to see our local green councillor losing his seat though because he worked hard and was trying to instigate small amounts of change and improvement, while the rest of the silverbacks who got back in will continue to interfere in planning applications, zoning, and so on. Maybe it's proof that we still haven't reached the bottom of the barrel politically, socially, economically or environmentally when we're still prepared to put a lot of the same old muppets back in local power

I think it was rush of blood personally, especially by those who have long been involved in the party. Someone shouted "carpe diem" and off they charged to be seduced by the dark side. I find myself agreeing with Patricia McKenna in the Sunday Times who suggested they had picked the wrong horse. Power means being able to implement your policies and The Greens were pragmatic in that. But as I said above if you are going to ignore the fact that many did not vote for the Greens to join FF and the nature of how they did so,the current thumping is no surprise at all.

Villain

turgon wrote: »

At least they are affecting minute change - which is a lot more they would have done on the opposition benches.

Imagine the change they could affect if they pulled the plug on the Government?

Do Green supporters forget what Sargeant and Gormley were saying about FF in opposition and now THEY are supporting them and supporting votes on issues like the Cervical Cancer Vaccine, How can they justify that?

r0nanf

I honestly think this is the end of the Green Party as we know it - if they pull out now and opt for a GE they'll be massacred as the current level of contempt is massive, but if they wait what little support they have may be eroded after the November budget. Their affiliation with FF is cancerous, the question is how long they can survive.

As far as I can see the only hope they have is to pull the plug and try a non-election reform with FG/Lab as in 94.

As for the comments about "ignorance of voters", I find that insulting as I am not ignorant and don't blame the GP for what FF have done, but I do blame them for defaulting on many of their core principles. Improving standards of education anyone? M3? Incinerators? For many people, the moment that John Gormley was pictured, solemn faced right behind Bertie as he tendered his resignation was the moment that the GP vanished as a credible, honest and ethically correct party.

grahamo

20goto10 wrote: »

It's a disgrace what is happening to the Greens. The level of ignorance in voters is all too aparant once again. Why should the Greens be punished for what Fiana Fail have done? The Greens are coming up with some great initiatives. There is big money in Green economics and to just brush it all aside as unimportant is just plain ignorance.

Fine Gael and Labour...jesus christ talk about going from bad to worse.

What initiatives? All I know is the Greens are costing me more money in car tax and fuel etc.
If there was a decent public transport service I would use it. There isn't and they are doing nothing to provide one.

Trotter

I did and would vote for the concept of a green party that has environmental and social concerns at its centre.

The only way I will vote for this particular group of people who are under the green flag, is if they pull the plug now, and change the leader of the party who lied through his teeth and turned FF at the sight of ministerial office and the chance to solar panel the country at ANY cost.

Ludo

grahamo wrote: »

What initiatives? All I know is the Greens are costing me more money in car tax and fuel etc.
If there was a decent public transport service I would use it. There isn't and they are doing nothing to provide one.

Another reason I did not vote Green this time. Public transport is being CUT BACK (in cork anyway definitely) yet they are bringing in new taxes to encourage people to use public transport. This is not reasonable. Public transport needs to be up to scratch first, then tax the hell out of car users.

TaxiManMartin

Villain wrote: »

Imagine the change they could affect if they pulled the plug on the Government?

Do Green supporters forget what Sargeant and Gormley were saying about FF in opposition and now THEY are supporting them and supporting votes on issues like the Cervical Cancer Vaccine, How can they justify that?

I agree. Voted green for years but i'll never vote green again. They have proved themselves not to be the party i used to vote for.

spudwiser

the energy rating for houses

and massive improvement in water and sewage treatment plants across the country

20goto10

grahamo wrote: »

What initiatives? All I know is the Greens are costing me more money in car tax and fuel etc.
If there was a decent public transport service I would use it. There isn't and they are doing nothing to provide one.

It just so happens that one of their initiatives is public transport. If the Greens had their way and had the money to do it their would be trains and LUAS's all over the country. Car tax has come down on many cars so I don't see what your complaint is there and although fuel prices are on the rise again its hardly an election issue. Particularly not a local election issue.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

and not understanding who voted for you and why.

I'd be more of the view that you have that the wrong way round.
I think those that voted green didn't understand who they were voting for and why [though I take on board the point regarding what Gormley said to a poster here].
Recently myself,some of the mods of this board and some people from the blogosphere were taken on a behind the scenes tour of the Green party operation in Leinster house by Ciarán Cuffe t.d,John Gormley t.d,Deirdre de burca and some of the party staff there.
I have to say I was genuinely impressed with the level of commitment to getting things done on their agenda that was evident [and I wouldn't be a green supporter].

I came away feeling sad actually that,they were going to fall fowl of an electorate that didn't understand them.
At the time they decided to go into government,they saw FF returned with an even slightly higher percentage of the vote than in 02.
They saw the opportunity to go into government to at least have a stab at implimenting some of their policies rather than be hurlers on the ditch.
For all they knew,the electorate was going to continue putting FF in there,it certainly looked like it at the time.

That decision was taken based on the here and now of the results of may '07 where the best efforts of the opposing parties couldn't get FF ousted.
So thye decided to bite the bullet and take the opportunity.
I have to say I've some empathy for them then to be on the receiving end of an unpopular FF government backlash.

YFlyer

Villain wrote: »

there may be a time in the future for Green issues but right now its about survival, Green jobs are great any jobs are great but they are not an excuse to prop up a Government that has failed the people.

We need to continue investing in research and development in sustainable energy and clean technologies in our universities and colleges, and indigenous industries.

Villain

YFlyer wrote: »

We need to continue investing in research and development in sustainable energy and clean technologies in our universities and colleges, and indigenous industries.

Well cutting back in Education is a great start for that Im sure you'll agree.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd be more of the view that you have that the wrong way round.
I think those that voted green didn't understand who they were voting for and why [though I take on board the point regarding what Gormley said to a poster here].
Recently myself,some of the mods of this board and some people from the blogosphere were taken on a behind the scenes tour of the Green party operation in Leinster house by Ciarán Cuffe t.d,John Gormley t.d,Deirdre de burca and some of the party staff there.
I have to say I was genuinely impressed with the level of commitment to getting things done on their agenda that was evident [and I wouldn't be a green supporter].

I came away feeling sad actually that,they were going to fall fowl of an electorate that didn't understand them.
At the time they decided to go into government,they saw FF returned with an even slightly higher percentage of the vote than in 02.
They saw the opportunity to go into government to at least have a stab at implimenting some of their policies rather than be hurlers on the ditch.
For all they knew,the electorate was going to continue putting FF in there,it certainly looked like it at the time.

That decision was taken based on the here and now of the results of may '07 where the best efforts of the opposing parties couldn't get FF ousted.
So thye decided to bite the bullet and take the opportunity.
I have to say I've some empathy for them then to be on the receiving end of an unpopular FF government backlash.

I don't disagree with some of what they are attempting to do. In principle voters agreed with lot of their more sensible polices and there is general acceptance of the need for an environmental focus. That said reasons for voting for candidates tend to be far more complex than just policies. My contention is that the vote for them was not one to go into government with FF. In that respect I think it is the same type of vote that Dick Spring tapped into in 1992. That Labour were not seen as part of the "all the same" label associated with the big two as were the Greens before the last general election. If you recall that you may also recall how much anger there was directed at Labour and not at FF when an election was held.

What the Greens lost in joining FF and the manner of doing so was the same perception of "integrity" that Spring had before he took Labour into coalition with FF. Add that to that mix the smugness of Gormley, the widespread notion that they have backtracked on all of their core beliefs, they really only have themselves to blame and were on a hiding to nothing. If it is the case, as you suggest, that we don't understand them then in that they also only have themselves to blame for not communicating that effectively

Like Labour they would have been punished anyway even if FF were not doing so badly. I am just surprised at the level of it and that is probably the element of the anti-FF backlash.

I think they jumped at the chance far too readily, when waiting for that other alternative made a lot more sense politically and ideologically. It was always going to be the wrong call and now 25 years of careful building looks to have gone because of their rashness. Until FF approached them they hadn't entertained the idea. Now they run the risk of being wiped out politically. If that happens it won't matter what policies they have.

YFlyer

Villain

Yeah I don't think the Government fully realise that to have excellent people in third and fourth level institutes is that you need to cater for them in primary and secondary school.

Judgement Day

ShooterSF wrote: »

Derlighted. What the hell does a country of 4 million people need a green party for anyway? Sure be environmental but there's no need for such a huge emphasis on it.
Maybe that will come across as ignorant. I'm not suggesting we abandon green issues but we have to be realistic globally we don't have a big enough effect that we should make green issues a priority. Economics, health and social issues are more important (not necissarily (sp?) in that order).

It does come across as really ignorant but what the hell - who says dinosaurs are extinct.

Akrasia

This all comes down to their greed and impatience to get into power (and not just the front bench, but also the membership who voted in the convention to go into coalition with FF)

They went into a coalition with the devil under the worst possible conditions (Bertie's corruption was apparent, economy about to collapse, they didn't even hold the balance of power because the government had spare numbers without them) and every political decision they made since then dug themselves deeper into that hole.

They have been decimated in this election and they still refuse to admit that they made a mistake.

If they had not joined FF, then they would be in power now in a new coalition govt with FG and Labour and would have more TDs and Councillors than they had after the last GE.

They would be in a position to rebuild Ireland's economy into the future as a green and sustainable one rather than waste their only chance in Govt as FF's mudguard.

History will look back and laugh at the terrible decisions that they made and that they only had themselves to blame.

Sully

Gormley was on the radio earlier saying he wouldn't be pulling out of government based on the disappointing election results for them.

Our man in Havana

Typical of the Greens the longer they hang on the more like FF they become.

YFlyer

Akrasia wrote: »

They would be in a position to rebuild Ireland's economy into the future as a green and sustainable one

Whoever gets in to Power at the next GE should have this as one of their main policies.

YFlyer

Bond-007 wrote: »

Typical of the Greens the longer they hang on the more like FF they become.

The Government is an innocent mirror of the level of awareness or consciousness of the people.

mike65

Dan Boyle is....worried about the budget. First shot fired.

YFlyer

mike65 wrote: »

Dan Boyle is....worried about the budget. First shot fired.

There was me reading about the Irish American Mobser Danny Greene

Liam Byrne

mike65 wrote: »

Dan Boyle is....worried about the budget. First shot fired.

Funny how he only got worried about it this weekend :rolleyes:

Macha

Akrasia wrote: »

History will look back and laugh at the terrible decisions that they made and that they only had themselves to blame.

It may be bad for them in the long run, but do you not think that they know this? You think that this may not have occurred to them?

The most cowardly thing they could do is pull out now.

I really don't understand why everyone is spitting feathers over the Greens when it's FF policies that have gotten us where we are. It really seems misplaced. Do people really think they deserved to get 6% of the vote while FF got 25% in local elections? Why is no one annoyed that 1 in 4 people still voted for FF??

Our man in Havana

The most cowardly thing they could do is pull out now.

Actually people would respect them more.

mike65

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Funny how he only got worried about it this weekend :rolleyes:

Sorry its the next budget he is worried about, in other words FF are going to have to please the Greens in some way or dot dot dot

Macha

Bond-007 wrote: »

Actually people would respect them more.

Why? I really don't understand this. Respect them more because they make a obviously strategic move to save their own asses for the next election? How is that worthy of respect? That's the sort of 'party before country' crap I despise in FF.

Our man in Havana

mike65 wrote: »

Sorry its the next budget he is worried about, in other words FF are going to have to please the Greens in some way or dot dot dot

Well the budget will be the real test of their resolve. So there is a real chance of a walk out before the end of the year.

Dr Galen

seemingly John Gormley has said that the party intends to stay in government with FF despite whats happened

Our man in Havana

taconnol wrote: »

Why? I really don't understand this. Respect them more because they make a obviously strategic move to save their own asses for the next election? How is that worthy of respect? That's the sort of 'party before country' crap I despise in FF.

I would still expect them to be annihilated now in a GE. If they hang on they will only make their rehabilitation worse.

Nodin

Sully wrote: »

Gormley was on the radio earlier saying he wouldn't be pulling out of government based on the disappointing election results for them.

Isn't there a ministerial pension you need four years served to be eligible for?

cnocbui

20goto10 wrote: »

It's a disgrace what is happening to the Greens. The level of ignorance in voters is all too aparant once again. Why should the Greens be punished for what Fiana Fail have done?

It is presumptuous of you to assume that intelligent people will automatically approve of the policies espoused by the Greens.

There are many highly intelligent people, who for example, do not believe in anthropogenic global warming

Green polices are fundamentally disastrous for employment and many people can see that and will vote accordingly.

Such policies can only be given lip service when economic times are rosy, in the current economic climate, they need to be packed away in a box and buried in the garden until a sunnier economic climate returns.

The Greens are coming up with some great initiatives. There is big money in Green economics and to just brush it all aside as unimportant is just plain ignorance.

The Greens are proposing the establishment of a nuclear power station? I didn't know that.

I do recall Gormley opposing a waste incinerator. Wow, what a far sighted greenie he is.

Our man in Havana

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

seemingly John Gormley has said that the party intends to stay in government with FF despite whats happened

As Charlton Heston said "from my cold, dead hands"