Dodgiest Players to ever rock up in Irish provinces

GymJim

I'd like to hear suggestions on this. A good one for the memories of hair tearing and disappointment in Irish rugby.

I'll start off with the following list:

Eddie Hekenui (obviously)
Dion O'Cuineagain (harsh perhaps?)
Brendan Burke (ginger winger extraordinaire)
Some long haired NZ lad called David Pusey in the Munster second row
Nick Williams (I know early but he looks chronic)
Paul Devlin (former RL guy who could barely make Garryowen team in the end)
Tim Donnelly

All additions to list appreciated.

Stev_o

GymJim wrote: »

I'd like to hear suggestions on this. A good one for the memories of hair tearing and disappointment in Irish rugby.

I'll start off with the following list:

Eddie Hekenui (obviously)
Dion O'Cuineagain (harsh perhaps?)
Brendan Burke (ginger winger extraordinaire)
Some long haired NZ lad called David Pusey in the Munster second row
Nick Williams (I know early but he looks chronic)
Paul Devlin (former RL guy who could barely make Garryowen team in the end)
Tim Donnelly

All additions to list appreciated.

As a member of Barnhall i'll say Burkey is a legend no matter what Playing for Bedford now and doing well.

anonymous_joe

That Yank who played for Leinster donkeys years ago.

Hekenui wasn't as bad as he seemed...

Ehm...

O'Cuineagain played for Ireland? Bit harsh?

GymJim

anonymous_joe wrote: »

O'Cuineagain played for Ireland? Bit harsh?

Ya I did mention that alright but still it was a terrible Irish team so not sure that's actually relevant. I remember going hoarse regularly at him constantly losing ground and dropping the ball.

I accept may be harsh still though as it must have been tiring trying to hold an ever-retreating scrum together every match for Ireland. Actually he has a HEC winners medal with Ulster too doesn't he?!

anonymous_joe

GymJim wrote: »

Ya I did mention that alright but still it was a terrible Irish team so not sure that's actually relevant. I remember going hoarse regularly at him constantly losing ground and dropping the ball.

I accept may be harsh still though as it must have been tiring trying to hold an ever-retreating scrum together every match for Ireland. Actually he has a HEC winners medal with Ulster too doesn't he?!

Yeah. Didn't he play for the South Africans under-20s or whatever too? Must have been pretty good to manage that.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

T

Hekenui wasn't as bad as he seemed...

Oh yes he was

toomevara

Christian Cullen. An expensive Fiasco.

Zzippy

Troy Nathan. Close the thread.

Benny Cake

jowitt

Dumbledore

D_Red_Army wrote: »

jowitt

I actually thought Jowitt was a decent player a couple of years ago, he kind of fell off the radar. Speaking of falling off the radar, though it is slightly off-topic, does anyone know what happened to Andrew Trimble?

Stev_o

Dumbledore wrote: »

I actually thought Jowitt was a decent player a couple of years ago, he kind of fell off the radar. Speaking of falling off the radar, though it is slightly off-topic, does anyone know what happened to Andrew Trimble?

Injured had to have surgery on his knee.

madson

D_Red_Army wrote: »

jowitt

Gomez was a lot worse than Jowitt

jayteecork

Jermey Staunton always has to be included in one of these lists.

madson

Ulster had a Fijian called Joeli Veitayaki, wouldn't come out of the changing room one night because it was too cold.

Munster had a guy called Clinton Huppert who couldn't even get into the Shannon team

Leinster had Argentinan prop Juan Gomez, not a lot can be said about him.

anonymous_joe

Was about to say how could I forget Gomez, but then, how could I remember him? ><

Podge_irl

madson wrote: »

Gomez was a lot worse than Jowitt

Vermaas was worse than either.

madds

GymJim wrote: »

...Brendan Burke (ginger winger extraordinaire)

Would like to hear your reasons for including Burke in your "dodgiest ever list"? He was a fan's favourite with the majority of Leinster supporters and his final season in the blue was hampered by a long term groin injury and the arrival of guys like Kearney and Brown onto the scene.

anonymous_joe

If we're talking about Irish players -

Brian Carney

Not sure what happened. Really really really talented. Like, unbelievably so. In terms of natural talent one of the best to ever come out of Ireland. Just didn't seem to 'get' union for whatever reason.

wixfjord

Ah Harry Vermaas, he could seemingly play all three front row positions and play well in none of the three :rolleyes:

No way would I argee with brendan burke or jowitt though.

Johnny Hepworth? Gomez has to be one of the worst, and Knoop for Leinster not much better it has to be said.

GymJim

madds wrote: »

Would like to hear your reasons for including Burke in your "dodgiest ever list"? He was a fan's favourite with the majority of Leinster supporters and his final season in the blue was hampered by a long term groin injury and the arrival of guys like Kearney and Brown onto the scene.

Also hampered by his lack of basic skills, pace or the ability to kick the ball where he aimed. Reason itself for it being his last season.

Also there are certain players that are fan's favourite for the effort they put in. He did try very hard just did't have the necessary ability at the end of the day (rugby's version of Paul McShane in every sense).

GymJim

wixfjord wrote: »

Ah Harry Vermaas, he could seemingly play all three front row positions and play well in none of the three :rolleyes:

No way would I argee with brendan burke or jowitt though.

Johnny Hepworth? Gomez has to be one of the worst, and Knoop for Leinster not much better it has to be said.

Vermaas and Hepworth...great calls.

Anyone recall Jake Paringatai with Munster? Or some guy with an Italian sounding name who played about 2 games on the wing for Munster last year?

Justin Melck?!

GymJim

Right an updated list is below. Any more to add?

Eddie Hekenui (Leinster)
David Pusey (Munster)
Nick Williams (Munster)
Paul Devlin (Munster)
Tim Donnelly (Connacht)
Troy Nathan (Connacht)
Cameron Jowitt (Leinster)
Juan Gomez (Leinster)
Joeli Veitiyaki (Ulster)
Jeremy Staunton (Munster)
Clinton Huppert (Munster)
Harry Vermaas (Leinster)
Jonny Hepworth (Leinster)
Brian Carney (Munster)

Have removed O'Cuineagain and Burke as appears general consensus is not in my favour these ones.

TarfHead

GymJim wrote: »

Justin Melck?!

Harsh. He did the job he was paid for and did it well.

Aaron Freeman was the useless lump in the Leinster second row way back in the day. Tony Goldfinch was another piece of driftwood that washed up in Donnybrook.

Leinster had another couple of forwards in recent years that underwhelmed. Bryce Williams was one, and the name of the other one is bugging me until I remember.

Clinton Huppert was not Munster's finest hour And Pusey was Australian, IIRC

GymJim

TarfHead wrote: »

And Pusey was Australian, IIRC

He was also crap. Interesting which fact is more memorable really

GymJim

A few more of Munster's finest a few fanatics have reminded me of (as frankly I can't remember a few of them):

Jason Jones-Hughes (came same time as Payne)
Mike Storey (NZ tight-head)
James Storey (Welsh centre from Neath-Swansea also same time as Payne)
Tom Bowman (Aussie international lock signed as cover for Pusey would you believe)
Brian Lima (never even played)
Alex Pitout (Argie winger who played only a few games - finally remembered his name)

GEMS!

You could write a book on some of the terrible players who have turned up in Connacht.Here goes:

Andrew Gallagher
Pieter Van Myburgh
Frik Venter
Ryan Strudwick
Troy Nathan
Mike Roberts(if only because he was always injured)
Troy Nathan (of course)
David Slemen
Fabian Bourouix
Dave Hewitt(Not sure was he Irish or English)
Tim Donnelly

Lots of Irish players as well.

For Munster Anton Pitou was a wipeout I remember.James Storey as well.

jayteecork

That rugby league import.

Gary Connolly, think Munster signed him and he barely played a game. another disaster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Connolly

Someone mentioned Brian Lima above, unfair. He got injured just after he signed. He's an alltime great in rugby. HE didn't play a agme cause of injury, unlike Gary Connolly who didn't play because he was ****e.

GymJim

Borders no.2 wrote: »

You could write a book on some of the terrible players who have turned up in Connacht.Here goes:

Andrew Gallagher
Pieter Van Myburgh
Frik Venter
Ryan Strudwick
Troy Nathan
Mike Roberts(if only because he was always injured)
Troy Nathan (of course)
David Slemen
Fabian Bourouix
Dave Hewitt(Not sure was he Irish or English)
Tim Donnelly

Lots of Irish players as well.

For Munster Anton Pitou was a wipeout I remember.James Storey as well.

Troy Nathan actually deserves to be in there twice aswell. Hewitt was Irish think he's actually still playing with Montpellier too.

Would have thought Connacht would have had the majority of dodgy imports alright.

Any Ulster fans remember Robbie Brink (Bok), Matt Sexton and David Allen (both Aussies)?

GymJim

jayteecork wrote: »

That rugby league import.

Gary Connolly, think Munster signed him and he barely played a game. another disaster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Connolly

Someone mentioned Brian Lima above, unfair. He got injured just after he signed. He's an alltime great in rugby. HE didn't play a agme cause of injury, unlike Gary Connolly who didn't play because he was ****e.

I mentioned Brian Lima alright. Doesn't deserve to be on dodgy list alright. Should probably be on a "least value for money" list with Cullen.

To be fair Connolly played all the time until he got injured. He only signed for one season (and was at the end of his career) and the effects of his influence on the likes of Dowling (spinning out of tackles) and Murphy are still there to be seen.

You would wonder where half these lads ended up.No info on the web for alot of them,just seem to have dissapeared.

GymJim

Micheal Some Sunset wrote: »

You would wonder where half these lads ended up.No info on the web for alot of them,just seem to have dissapeared.

Probably all still playing in the Connacht A's awaiting the arrival of Bernie Upton

Podge_irl

wixfjord wrote: »

Gomez has to be one of the worst, and Knoop for Leinster not much better it has to be said.

Knoop was actually pretty good when he first signed for Leinster. He just seemed to be injured for over an entire year. He went off in an Ulster game a couple months after he arrived (while making a mess of their scrum) with a rather innocuous head injury and didn't play for Leinster again until a couple months ago.

Stealdo

anonymous_joe wrote: »

O'Cuineagain played for Ireland? Bit harsh?

Not just played for, O'Cuinneagain captained Ireland at a World Cup. Not bad for a guy who only won 20 or so caps. I thought he was a cracking player up to that World Cup (99) - went down hill quickly after it.

bigbadben

madson wrote: »

Ulster had a Fijian called Joeli Veitayaki, wouldn't come out of the changing room one night because it was too cold.

Munster had a guy called Clinton Huppert who couldn't even get into the Shannon team

Leinster had Argentinan prop Juan Gomez, not a lot can be said about him.

Those have to be the three worst. Gomez must be the only Argentinian ever born who couldn't scrumage

bigbadben

GymJim wrote: »

I mentioned Brian Lima alright. Doesn't deserve to be on dodgy list alright. Should probably be on a "least value for money" list with Cullen.

To be fair Connolly played all the time until he got injured. He only signed for one season (and was at the end of his career) and the effects of his influence on the likes of Dowling (spinning out of tackles) and Murphy are still there to be seen.

Apparently he also thought tony Buckley how to drink 18 cans of larger the night before a match and still play the exact same as the week before i.e. anonymous.

wixfjord

Podge_irl wrote: »

Knoop was actually pretty good when he first signed for Leinster. He just seemed to be injured for over an entire year. He went off in an Ulster game a couple months after he arrived (while making a mess of their scrum) with a rather innocuous head injury and didn't play for Leinster again until a couple months ago.

No I wouldnt agree with that at all, he played a couple of games but imo never looked up to the intensity or fitness levels.

Better than Gomez though Ill give you that.

itsallaboutheL

Leinster fans look away



Nathan Spooner*


*runs off

GymJim

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Leinster fans look away



Nathan Spooner*


*runs off

Not the greatest kicker now was he?! Speaking of which Christian Warner (at fly half that is)...grand but a very average and unnecessary foreign signing.

Was there someone between this procession of Leinster fly-halves...Hekenui, Spooner, Holwell, Warner?! and David McAllister's 2 games don't count as himbeing the regular fly:)

itsallaboutheL

my formative teenage years were spent chanting Spooooooner Spooooooooooooooner and watching him shít himself all over Musgrave and Thomond

madds

GymJim wrote: »

Also hampered by his lack of basic skills, pace or the ability to kick the ball where he aimed. Reason itself for it being his last season.

Also there are certain players that are fan's favourite for the effort they put in. He did try very hard just did't have the necessary ability at the end of the day (rugby's version of Paul McShane in every sense).

His lack of pace? I'll give you the nod on the handling skills and kicking side of the game but Burke had pace to burn, believe me. Also, to include him in the same category as Hekenui is unfair, that guy should be on a list all of his own.

GymJim

madds wrote: »

His lack of pace? I'll give you the nod on the handling skills and kicking side of the game but Burke had pace to burn, believe me. Also, to include him in the same category as Hekenui is unfair, that guy should be on a list all of his own.

Ya the more I remember him playing you're right actually. But ya bit of a headless chicken still.

And yes Hekenui was absolutely chronic...we can say he is the leading light of shocking overseas wastes of money to have been indulged by the Irish provinces...and that's some going when you see the players already mentioned here...especially Huppert who was paid 65k for a single year in the Shannon reserves and then paid 25k to feck off instead of another 65k for the 2nd year of his contract.

Podge_irl

GymJim wrote: »

Not the greatest kicker now was he?! Speaking of which Christian Warner (at fly half that is)...grand but a very average and unnecessary foreign signing.

Warner was an excellent squad player. Not really first choice material, but an excellent addition to any squad. Nowhere near being ranked with some of the names mentioned here.

GymJim

Podge_irl wrote: »

Warner was an excellent squad player. Not really first choice material, but an excellent addition to any squad. Nowhere near being ranked with some of the names mentioned here.

That's what I was saying sure...good centre poor fly half! Just an aside really on the Spooner point. Should foreign imports from SH really not be first choice material though with the money being spent on them?!

Amazotheamazing

GymJim wrote: »

Right an updated list is below. Any more to add?

Eddie Hekenui (Leinster)
David Pusey (Munster)
Nick Williams (Munster)
Paul Devlin (Munster)
Tim Donnelly (Connacht)
Troy Nathan (Connacht)
Cameron Jowitt (Leinster)
Juan Gomez (Leinster)
Joeli Veitiyaki (Ulster)
Jeremy Staunton (Munster)
Clinton Huppert (Munster)
Harry Vermaas (Leinster)
Jonny Hepworth (Leinster)
Brian Carney (Munster)

Have removed O'Cuineagain and Burke as appears general consensus is not in my favour these ones.

Pusey was actually coming good when he got badly injured in a colours match for Ireland prior to the tour to Japan, ended up heading back to Oz to play for the Force in the Super14. Devlin was pretty highly rated by the guys I knew in Garryowen, never really got a run with Munster and is currently playing in Division One in England (with the Cornish Pirates, iirc). Carney had a bad falling out with Munster, he wasn't dropped for his lack of ability. Nick Williams' body is a mess apparently, may never reach his potential due to it.

If we're including guys like Staunton and Burke, how about Norton and Gary Browne?

Teg Veece

GymJim wrote: »

Anyone recall Jake Paringatai with Munster? Or some guy with an Italian sounding name who played about 2 games on the wing for Munster last year?

Justin Melck?!

Have to disagree with you there. Both Melck and Paringatai were great short term signings for Munster. They slotted into the team nicely and did a lot more than people had expected they would.

Pusey...snigger

GymJim

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

If we're including guys like Staunton and Burke, how about Norton and Gary Browne?

To be fair Norton and Brown had far more natural ability. Brown was hardly going to overtake any of the back 5 to become a regular now was he. I reckon if he was Kearney/Fitz generation he'd be pretty close to the team as the likes of Horgan, Dempsey et al would be coming to an end...also Hickie was there at the time.

Out of interest what ever happened to Norton? Is he still playing AIL? Remember him from years ago as a very exciting full back who just disappeared.

WaldenByThoreua

Anyone remember alipate tuilevuka who apparentyl played for connacht a few years back??

I dont remember it but the ole internet suggests he did..and a youtube video suggests he's a bit of a monster...plays centre for the USA?

Not suggesting hes a flop just want to know if anyone has any memory of him because he seems to have a lot of physical talent...

Podge_irl

GymJim wrote: »

That's what I was saying sure...good centre poor fly half! Just an aside really on the Spooner point. Should foreign imports from SH really not be first choice material though with the money being spent on them?!

He did alright at fly-half when called upon. Not everyone in your squad can be a stellar player! He did his part very professionally and fitted in more or less perfectly. He was only ever dropping in and out of squads as other players were unavailable, but he never really let Leinster down.

I doubt he was all that expensive either (besides he was Irish qualified if it came down to it). I just think comparing him to the likes of Gomez and Vermaas is grossly unfair.

GymJim

Podge_irl wrote: »

He did alright at fly-half when called upon. Not everyone in your squad can be a stellar player! He did his part very professionally and fitted in more or less perfectly. He was only ever dropping in and out of squads as other players were unavailable, but he never really let Leinster down.

I doubt he was all that expensive either (besides he was Irish qualified if it came down to it). I just think comparing him to the likes of Gomez and Vermaas is grossly unfair.

Fair Point!

My point really is more that should the Irish provinces really be spending money on sub-par imports (as Connacht do) ahead of spending it on enhancing the academy and actually blooding the best of their younger players...and there is definitely the talent pool currently to do this.

Obviously where a suitable first choice player is not available for a position from within then a high quality import should be sought (ala Elsom at No.6). But is it really necessary to bring in average foreigners to just fill squad places...a prime example being Connacht...I'm sure if they just threw in their youngsters they would still be well able to finish last in the Magners League. Sometimes it is just a waste of money and also has a negative effect on the development of younger players.

Why could Connacht not just spend the money they fork out on their Academy. They are always complaining they get less money to spend than the other provinces...so why not just spend it in the right areas?

anonymous_joe

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Pusey was actually coming good when he got badly injured in a colours match for Ireland prior to the tour to Japan, ended up heading back to Oz to play for the Force in the Super14. Devlin was pretty highly rated by the guys I knew in Garryowen, never really got a run with Munster and is currently playing in Division One in England (with the Cornish Pirates, iirc). Carney had a bad falling out with Munster, he wasn't dropped for his lack of ability. Nick Williams' body is a mess apparently, may never reach his potential due to it.

If we're including guys like Staunton and Burke, how about Norton and Gary Browne?

What was the deal with Carney? What'd they fall out over?

As for guys like Gary Browne - he was talented, fast, etc, but not quite as good as Horgan, Hickie et al.