What nationalities do you think Irish people are similar to?

gurramok

Húrin wrote: »

Genetically we are related to the Spanish, Scandinavians and British.

Source for this?

Dunno about Spanish, guess the dark hair/dark eyes section of the population(including me) came from somewhere on the south of the continent as we look like them and the rest from invasions.(fair heads and blondes!)

Now, where did the red-heads come from?

Elmo

gurramok wrote: »

Dunno about Spanish, guess the dark hair/dark eyes section of the population(including me) came from somewhere on the south of the continent as we look like them and the rest from invasions.(fair heads and blondes!)

What is even more unusual about the Irish is the Blue eyes and Dark hair seems to be very rare in other parts of the world.

RTÉ did a programming on our relationship with the spanish, but than many other country also come from that northern part of spain.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Unexpected ones I've noticed are Poles, Arabs and South Asians

Elmo

thusspakeblixa

Elmo wrote: »

RTÉ did a programming on our relationship with the spanish, but than many other country also come from that northern part of spain.

That programme - "Blood of the Irish" - detailed our similarity to the Basques and Galicians.

Basques and Galicians are culturally, linguistically and genetically not the same as Castilian Spanish.

Ergo, the Irish are not similar to the Spanish.

baile

Hi does anybody think the Irish have much in common with the French?

baile

baile wrote: »

Hi does anybody think the Irish have much in common with the French?

.

Dionysus

baile wrote: »

Hi does anybody think the Irish have much in common with the French?

I would hope so given that minor matter of the Norman invasion

In the 16th century, for example, Gearóid Mór Mac Gearailt (Fitzgerald), the eighth earl of Kildare, wrote a letter to his "kinsman" in Italy recounting their shared Norman heritage (You can read part of this interesting letter here: http://tinyurl.com/ldj246 - go to page 40.)

Aside from the Norman-Irish, I remember years ago reading a book by Myles Dillon on Irish mythology and whether it had any basis in fact. He was going on about how Roman historians were recounting practices which the "Celtic" Gauls carried out at chariot races. At the same time Irish "mythology" was praising similar practices and past-times by "Celtic" tribes across Ireland.

Hookey

The Normans weren't really French though; they were francophile Norse. And since the Normans ruled the English as well, and they're nothing like the French, why would we be like them?

Cjoe

Hookey wrote: »

The Normans weren't really French though; they were francophile Norse. And since the Normans ruled the English as well, and they're nothing like the French, why would we be like them?

The scandinavians/vikings having invaded northern france mixed with the french and when they arrived at our shores they were of mixed french and scandinavian descent. So alot of fitzgeralds fitzpatrick etc would be of irish french and scandinavian descent. The normans were known to mix and accept local customs very easily so I do believe there is a strong connection between Ireland and northern france.
Also, I am half french myself with my family from north western france I can certainly see physical similarites between irish and french in this area. Alot of red heads and fair skin around these parts

devereaux17

I AM A NORMAN

yes i always am in france(my favourite place in nantes *shifty*) and i feel people from there seem familiar, its hard to explain but i guess, what i mean is that despite the language differences and such it doesn't feel foreign to me at least anyway, i feel much more at home you could say in nantes than i would in a place like the usa despite them being english speaking as well(which for me feels very different from ireland which it is of course)

i dont believe in national traits and stuff and as elmo keeps saying we are like everybody else but this is just my personal feeling.

Dionysus

Hookey wrote: »

The Normans weren't really French though; they were francophile Norse. And since the Normans ruled the English as well, and they're nothing like the French, why would we be like them?

Ah now in fairness right up to the seventeenth century these families were still prosecuting their legal cases in French ("law French"); their statutes were still published in French until the 16th century and they were proud of their links with France. Furthermore, the Normans were most embittered about the English/British conquest of Ireland; they had, after all, most to lose.

As for your argument that they "weren't really French" - well, that is true in the sense of the modern nation of France, a modern nation where 50% of the population didn't speak French at the start of the 19th century. But you'd really have to show what "French" meant in 1169, if indeed it meant anything.

Moreover, there is little disputing the fact that whether it was the Fitgeralds of Kerry, Barrys of Cork, Burkes of Galway, Costellos of Mayo or Plunketts of Meath the Normans had, to a man, become 'more Irish than the Irish themselves'. All of these families, without exception, had intermarried with the Gaelic-Irish. They spoke Irish, they lived under either Brehon Law or the Marsh Law, and all certainly used Brehon Law. Their relations all around them were members of the leading Gaelic families in that area - without these alliances the Normans in rural Ireland (including the Pale) would have been overthrown. By the late sixteenth century English officials such as Henry Wallop were, ironically, talking about "civilising" these degenerate families.

In fact, even 'Old English' families in Dublin - the tiny area where intermarriage with the Gaelic world was not strong and resentment at the gaelicisation of the Burkes, Butlers, Fitzgeralds etc was very strong - such as the Stanihursts were paradoxically at pains to highlight that the English in their period (16th century) were not really English; the real "English" were those like Richard Stanihurst. So, if you want to make a distinction between the descendents of the Normans in Ireland that is one thing, but ignoring the huge differences within that community and relegating the whole community to the political views of a small minority like the Stanihursts, is another matter entirely.

Elmo

Dionysus wrote: »

In fact, even 'Old English' families in Dublin - the tiny area where intermarriage with the Gaelic world was not strong and resentment at the gaelicisation of the Burkes, Butlers, Fitzgeralds etc was very strong - such as the Stanihursts were paradoxically at pains to highlight that the English in their period (16th century) were not really English; the real "English" were those like Richard Stanihurst. So, if you want to make a distinction between the descendents of the Normans in Ireland that is one thing, but ignoring the huge differences within that community and relegating the whole community to the political views of a small minority like the Stanihursts, is another matter entirely.

Any Stanihursts left in Ireland? Not a very common name.

orourkeda

A penchant of the irish is for a good stroke. (Re tribunals)

Which other nationality does this remind you of?

Hookey

Cjoe wrote: »

The scandinavians/vikings having invaded northern france mixed with the french and when they arrived at our shores they were of mixed french and scandinavian descent. So alot of fitzgeralds fitzpatrick etc would be of irish french and scandinavian descent. The normans were known to mix and accept local customs very easily so I do believe there is a strong connection between Ireland and northern france.
Also, I am half french myself with my family from north western france I can certainly see physical similarites between irish and french in this area. Alot of red heads and fair skin around these parts

My point was, if you try to show a link between the French and the Irish, the Normans don't really cut it because those selfsame Normans invaded England first, and were genetically Scandinavian. As the subsequent English invasions had a far larger cultural effect than the Normans, its pretty tenuous to suggest a similarity with the French, who the Normans weren't very similar to anyway (and most importantly represented a thin veneer on the population from a genetic pov).

There's probably a closer genetic link to the Bretons than the Normans, because all the DNA evidence shows that base populations seem to be remarkably stable over long periods. Culturally though, its the British all the way, and its a two way street, with Ireland being one of the largest cultural influences on the UK after the US.

devereaux17

What do you mean by cultural influences?

Elmo

devereaux17 wrote: »

What do you mean by cultural influences?

Music, Arts, Language, Politics (mmm??), Dance, Fiction, Theatre, Sports.

We are infulenced by both the US and the UK and to a lesser extend Austrailia, and from an imigration point of view we have infleuenced those countries also.

Newfoundland in Canada would have major Irish influences including the Waterford accent and the Irish Language. Baseball is influenced by Rounders (initally an English sport but played widely here).

crustyjuggler

Should this thread be called , What nationalities do you think Irish people are similar to? ( excluding the British )

Elmo

crustyjuggler wrote: »

Should this thread be called , What nationalities do you think Irish people are similar to? ( excluding the British )

The problem with describing us like the British is that the British have 3 different countries with different cultures and different historys to an extent. When the Irish say British we generally mean English. We watch English TV, read English newspapers and support English Football/soccer teams. It is rare that can be siad of the Scots or welsh.

devereaux17

And then the question is what does being english mean at all?

and reversing what is always said(different cultures in england), what does an irish muslim have in common with a white working class person in northern england?

Holopimp

Elmo wrote: »

The problem with describing us like the British is that the British have 3 different countries with different cultures and different historys to an extent. When the Irish say British we generally mean English. We watch English TV, read English newspapers and support English Football/soccer teams. It is rare that can be siad of the Scots or welsh.

I am English and I agree with this. The Scots and the Welsh are very different to the English, so it is isn't really possible to refer to the 'British' as one single culture. And then, even in England different regions are very different to each other which once again makes it difficult to use England for comparison. I am from East Anglia and feel I am quite different to people in, say, London or Bradford. England is also a mish-mash of other nations that have invaded and settled over the centuries, like Ireland is too. So both our countries are a product of many different nation's settlers and the influences and new customs and ideas they brought with them. Cultural diversity.

So, we are who we are.

Elmo

Holopimp wrote: »

England is also a mish-mash of other nations that have invaded and settled over the centuries, like Ireland is too. So both our countries are a product of many different nation's settlers and the influences and new customs and ideas they brought with them. Cultural diversity.

So, we are who we are.

Careful now! I assume you mean the Romans, Celts, Normans and Vikings (even the Irish) rather than the current influxes of Irish, African, West Indies, Indian, Chinese of more modren times who have settle rather than invade.

Invading is what ye do

bigeasyeah

Nationalities arent that different-we all have to eat,drink and shag -thats enough similarity for me:)

Cjoe

Elmo wrote: »

The problem with describing us like the British is that the British have 3 different countries with different cultures and different historys to an extent. When the Irish say British we generally mean English. We watch English TV, read English newspapers and support English Football/soccer teams. It is rare that can be siad of the Scots or welsh.

Supporting an English football team doesnt make us more like the english. The priemieraships is bigger in Thailand than it is here and I wouldnt say they are anyway similar to the English.
From a language and general traditional sense I believe we are more conected with the scotish than anyone. Attitudes and humour I find are more in common with the scots too. Through the years what has happened to them has pretty much happened to us, from the celts to the vikings to the english.

Holopimp

Elmo wrote: »

Careful now! I assume you mean the Romans, Celts, Normans and Vikings (even the Irish) rather than the current influxes of Irish, African, West Indies, Indian, Chinese of more modren times who have settle rather than invade.

Invading is what ye do

So, as I was born in England you prefer to assume I am a nationalist and am trying to pick on immigrants some how? I used the word 'invade' clearly in the historical context.

I myself am of recent Irish decent and I haven't invaded anyone

ArseBurger

I find the Irish to be quite like Romanians. Note - not Roma, Romanians.

Our political machinations, general attitude, nationalistic pride, social interactions, work ethic, and drive are very very similar.

Elmo

Holopimp wrote: »

So, as I was born in England you prefer to assume I am a nationalist and am trying to pick on immigrants some how? I used the word 'invade' clearly in the historical context.

I myself am of recent Irish decent and I haven't invaded anyone

Ehh! I was being sarcastic! I clearly saw that you had used it in the historical context.

Holopimp

Elmo wrote: »

Ehh! I was being sarcastic! I clearly saw that you had used it in the historical context.

Ha! Maybe I was being sarcastic too!

No worries, anyhow.

weepee

Irish behavioural patterns are very similar to Australians, tho genetically, we are very close to Galicia in northern Spain.

Bragadin

There are some cultural similarities to other parts of europe but we are mostly like the british. Genetically, culturally and socially. That doesn't mean we are british of course, or that we are indistinguishable. Think of it this way, no other culture could come to ireland and assimilate more easily then someone from britain, especially in more urban areas.

Some one from catalonia or america or the basque region may see similarities and it may not take them too long, but they would have a couple more things to get used to.