The worm has turned?

il gatto

Interesting. No chance imo. Fair play to Elsom for talking up the NH as opposed to bitter f@ckers like Chris Jack.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25583082-5015656,00.html

Otacon

What?

Nelson Muntz

il gatto wrote: »

Interesting. No chance imo. Fair play to Elsom for talking up the NH as opposed to bitter f@ckers like Chris Jack.

Please Explain?

TarfHead

Chris Jack has being slagging off NH club rugby

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_5363119,00.html

Nelson Muntz

Thanks,

That site is blocked at work. Whats the gist of it?

Found it. I don't see him bagging NH rugby, he only mentioned the English comp. In this article anyway http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10576470

Crash

Article for those who can't access it.

PlanetRugby.com wrote:

Former New Zealand international lock Chris Jack has poked fun at the standard of European club rugby, calling it 'easy'.

Jack, who has spent the last two seasons with English club Saracens, said he was returning home to New Zealand because he wanted to play a higher level of rugby.

"I'm not going back just to muck around. If I wanted to muck around I would have stayed up there," he told reporters in Sydney on Thursday.

"I want to come back and I want to play well. If I wanted to play easy rugby I would have stayed up in the northern hemisphere."

Jack is currently in Sydney preparing to play for the Barbarians against Australia this weekend and hopes his return to his native country can rekindle his international career.

The 30-year-old last played for the All Blacks at the 2007 World Cup in France but is eyeing a return to the Test arena for the 2011 World Cup, to be held in New Zealand.

"I want to play good rugby again. I want to play challenging rugby and I want to enjoy it," he said.

"The (English) premiership gets a bit tough after a while of the same sort of stuff. It's good to play some rugby that's enjoyable."

ManoCornuta

Nelson Muntz wrote: »

Found it. I don't see him bagging NH rugby, he only mentioned the English comp.

In the article that's blocked to you he says "If I wanted to play easy rugby I would have stayed up in the northern hemisphere."

zAbbo

He's just endearing himself to the NZRU.

I only saw him play for Sarries a handful of times, he didn't look too bothered - more like he was taking it easy.

jimi_t

Kiwi/Ozzie in "Everything's bigger/better/harder at home" shocker

anonymous_joe

He's not been much of a success here.

premierstone

anonymous_joe wrote: »

He's not been much of a success here.

He wasnt here he was over there

ScrubsfanChris

He was playing for Saracens for God sake, not much of a challange there.

anonymous_joe

premierstone wrote: »

He wasnt here he was over there

Europe's here atm. :P

In his defence (I feel dirty) if I'd been at Sarries this year I'd be peshed with the NH.

premierstone

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Europe's here atm. :P

Nah down with that sort of thing :P Sure the way things went this year maybe they should let Ireland into the SH this NH rugby just isnt challenging enough at all

anonymous_joe

premierstone wrote: »

Nah down with that sort of thing :P Sure the way things went this year maybe they should let Ireland into the SH this NH rugby just isnt challenging enough at all

Oooh, I wouldn't go that far.

Serenity Now!

il gatto wrote: »

Interesting. No chance imo. Fair play to Elsom for talking up the NH as opposed to bitter f@ckers like Chris Jack.

Feck's sake, some of you lot are so thin-skinned:rolleyes: Who cares what Chrus Jeck says? At least he's played the game at the very highest level.

If he found it easy, he found it easy. From watching him play, I'd say he's only bullshing as he struggled in one or two of the games I saw.

Nelson Muntz

premierstone wrote: »

Nah down with that sort of thing :P Sure the way things went this year maybe they should let Ireland into the SH this NH rugby just isnt challenging enough at all

I think this a far better attitude than the "sure we gave it a lash" mentality that Eddie used to trot out.

Ireland is the only NH country that always picks a full strength team on tours & treats international games with the respect they deserve.

anonymous_joe

Nelson Muntz wrote: »

I think this a far better attitude than the "sure we gave it a lash" mentality that Eddie used to trot out.

Ireland is the only NH country that always picks a full strength team on tours & treats international games with the respect they deserve.

That's not always for the best...

Under EOS our full strength tours denied many lads a chance to gain experience at a higher level.

Nelson Muntz

There is truth to that. Maybe when Ireland go to Aus & NZ, they should make it like a mini lions tour. Take a bigger party & arrange some midweek games against S14 teams. That would give th eyoung guys great experience.

thomond2006

Who cares what players think??

anonymous_joe

thomond2006 wrote: »

Who cares what players think??

I think it's interesting to see the different perspectives you can get on the game.

Given how few of us would agree with what Jack says, you have to ask - why don't we beat them internationally if they suck so hard over here.

The thing is, there's a lot of resentment towards the NH because we're 'stealing' their players. Were there more Europeans playing down South you might get a more rounded idea of the differneces between the two cultures.

il gatto

:oSorry folks. I edited my OP to include this link
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25583082-5015656,00.html

My point was the reversal of poaching, rather than Chris Jack throwing the toys out of the pram.

anonymous_joe

il gatto wrote: »

:oSorry folks. I edited my OP to include this link
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25583082-5015656,00.html

My point was the reversal of poaching, rather than Chris Jack throwing the toys out of the pram.

He mentioned on Ruggamatrix aaaages ago that he'd like to play S14.

Nelson Muntz

No NH player would ever go for the money that is for sure.

CatFromHue

Nelson Muntz wrote: »

There is truth to that. Maybe when Ireland go to Aus & NZ, they should make it like a mini lions tour. Take a bigger party & arrange some midweek games against S14 teams. That would give th eyoung guys great experience.

Thats the way it used to be, maybe without the mini lions tour.

Touring teams used to play midweek games against club or provincial teams.

Its only recently that the midweek games have been got rid of, say in the last 10 years.

If i remember Brian O driscoll played his first game for Ireland against the NSW colts. Correct me if im wrong though.

NickNolte

Jack didn't look like he found it easy at Saracens. Maybe he got frustrated. As for NH rugby being 'easy'... if I recall correctly, Bill was more recently in England's trophy cabinet than NZ's. That is all.

Ahh,Chris Jack.
The All Black who failed to do jack **** for Saracens,excuse the pun.

What a waste of space,who is he to judge European rugby by anyway,Saracens are utter ****e and he never played in a meaningful match for them.

Is it just me or does it seem like Rocky is doing the exact same as Jack except he's better at veiling his belief that the Super14 is better?

"I don't know exactly what he is thinking, but he is a player who would suit the style down here because he is really quick,"

"There are a lot of players in the northern hemisphere who would like to join Super 14 if they could."

"They said over there I was in the best form of my career, but I don't think I was exactly dragging the chain back here before I left,"

And nothing positive said about NH rugby,am I missing something?

il gatto

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it just me or does it seem like Rocky is doing the exact same as Jack except he's better at veiling his belief that the Super14 is better?





And nothing positive said about NH rugby,am I missing something?

Very true but he turned up, played like a demon and won the biggest comp he could. And he still didn't straight up call it easy. And he looked like he loved every minute. Jack just looked like he didn't want be there.

Rocky is entitled to his opinion but at least he showed some respect for how things are done up here.

Stev_o

Shelby Loose Marinade wrote: »

Ahh,Chris Jack.
The All Black who failed to do jack **** for Saracens,excuse the pun.

What a waste of space,who is he to judge European rugby by anyway,Saracens are utter ****e and he never played in a meaningful match for them.

Scarries ran Munster closer then any other team in the whole HC during 2007/8. That and you'd have to be pretty short sighted to call any team sh1t with Richard Hill in it.

[Jackass]

Chris Jack has a point though.

Not so much about Northern Hempisphere rugby, but English rugby.

The standard is very poor and the Guinness Premiership teams are nothing compared to French, Magners or Super 14.

The Lions test team might have one, or max 2 Guinness Premiership players in it. The "big 4" in Magners (Leinster, Munster, Cardiff & Ospreys) are better than anything in the Prmiership and have fully surpassed it in recent years (see Heineken Cup results and EDF - and not just the winners, the teams left in the later rounds).

He said the rugby is sh*t and not enjoyable, and he's right. It's all just physicality and closer to league than union.

Are you surprised, Elsom, who played in the Magners and with a Heineken Cup winning team talked up the northern hemisphere, while Jack, a Guinness Premiership player and small cheese European team, talked down the northern hemisphere?

At this rate English rugby will be dead in European competition in about 5 years. It's gone from dominating Europe at the turn of the century to now having maybe one or two teams capable of competeing at that level. They have been passed out so much it's not even funny, and while our game continues to gain momentum, theirs continues to grind to a hault.

They somehow came second in this years 6 nations, despite being utter crap, but look at them at international level over the last 4 or 5 years, woeful.

Although in fairness, they got to the final of the 2007 world cup, but that was as much a flash in the pan as you'll ever see, they didn't play a good game of rugby for years before the cup and haven't for years after it - the fact that they were defending the cup and were described as the worst ever defending champions may have given them a lift to preform beyond their potential in what was an extremely poor standard competition where nearly all the big teams flopped. Ireland on half the 6 nations form would have won that cup along with a handfull of other teams like Wales, New Zealand etc., if only their form didn't collapse at the exact wrong time.

Stev_o

Jackass sorry i stopped reading and thanking your post seriously when you suggested that Top14 is equal to ML and better then GP.

anonymous_joe

Well in fairness England have a fantastic pool of players, that's frequently misused.

Also, there's is a league that's just too cramped.

If everyone goes for the ML next season at full tilt, with only four places left, we'll see how tough it might be.

France's problem is too much competition, and both England and France need to reduce the number of games they play...

Stev_o

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Well in fairness England have a fantastic pool of players, that's frequently misused.

Also, there's is a league that's just too cramped.

If everyone goes for the ML next season at full tilt, with only four places left, we'll see how tough it might be.

France's problem is too much competition, and both England and France need to reduce the number of games they play...

France problem is that the standard is piss poor and it's full of nobodies being paid top dollar to do nothing. French teams in the HC have been poor (bar Clermount) and the France national team is a shambles.

anonymous_joe

Stev_o wrote: »

France problem is that the standard is piss poor and it's full of nobodies being paid top dollar to do nothing. French teams in the HC have been poor (bar Clermount) and the France national team is a shambles.

Ah I dunno. Clermont have lads like Rougerie, that winger whose name escapes with 20 tries in 19 games, Brock James, etc who are all quality. Stade have Parisse, Bergamascos, Taylor, Beauxis, Pichot and a whole host of other quality players.

If they got to rest as much as our lads did they'd do a lot better in the HC.

[Jackass]

Stev_o wrote: »

Jackass sorry i stopped reading and thanking your post seriously when you suggested that Top14 is equal to ML and better then GP.

Ah I didn't say it was equal to Magners, I just said it was better than GP, which it is. The weaker teams maybe not. If you were going to face off the bottom half of the table than GP would probably be better (such as the challenge cup or whatever it's called is usually dominated by English teams - but then Europe is a poor indicator of French teams, as how much do they care? Especially is they bottom half Top14 and have more important things to worry about). The elite teams though are the real measure to how difficult a league is to win and compete in and what level it is at, and at that end, I'd certainly go for Top14. It's hardly a laughable suggestion.

I know some here are staunch supporters of GP for whatever reason, focusing on what Magners might lack (a competition in its infincey still and with play-offs next season should surely see it up a notch too - plus crowd numbers etc. compare very favourably, all though the attractivness of a product wrapped in Setanta wrapping paper versus Sky Sports wrapping paper is easy to be fooled to the quality of what's inside), but I'm yet to hear a compelling argument for how the Guinness Premiership is better, let alone equals, the other big European Leagues.

Stev_o

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Ah I dunno. Clermont have lads like Rougerie, that winger whose name escapes with 20 tries in 19 games, Brock James, etc who are all quality. Stade have Parisse, Bergamascos, Taylor, Beauxis, Pichot and a whole host of other quality players.

If they got to rest as much as our lads did they'd do a lot better in the HC.

Joe read my post again and put on the glasses

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

Scarries ran Munster closer then any other team in the whole HC during 2007/8. That and you'd have to be pretty short sighted to call any team sh1t with Richard Hill in it.

Richard hill is 36 when jack was there.

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

France problem is that the standard is piss poor and it's full of nobodies being paid top dollar to do nothing. French teams in the HC have been poor (bar Clermount) and the France national team is a shambles.

You have honestly got to be joking,ive never heard such crap in my life.
If there was a joint european league

Clermont,Perpignon,Tolouse and Stade would probbaly claim 3 of the top 4 places.

Look at their squads and tell me they are weak.They just prioritise their domestic competition if anything that shows the quality of their own league.

anonymous_joe

Stev_o wrote: »

Joe read my post again and put on the glasses

Ah I know, but, like, their national team has better players than ours if you took their entire set up, but they underachieve. It's not a fair look.

I do agree about hte journeymen, there are a lot of Saffers of limited ability in France, but there are also bucketloads of talented players. Some of the teams are much better than anything we have, but just play far too much rugby to compete effectively on all fronts.

Stev_o

[Jackass] wrote: »

Ah I didn't say it was equal to Magners, I just said it was better than GP, which it is. The weaker teams maybe not. If you were going to face off the bottom half of the table than GP would probably be better (such as the challenge cup or whatever it's called is usually dominated by English teams - but then Europe is a poor indicator of French teams, as how much do they care? Especially is they bottom half Top14 and have more important things to worry about). The elite teams though are the real measure to how difficult a league is to win and compete in and what level it is at, and at that end, I'd certainly go for Top14. It's hardly a laughable suggestion.

I know some here are staunch supporters of GP for whatever reason, focusing on what Magners might lack (a competition in its infincey still and with play-offs next season should surely see it up a notch too - plus crowd numbers etc. compare very favourably, all though the attractivness of a product wrapped in Setanta wrapping paper versus Sky Sports wrapping paper is easy to be fooled to the quality of what's inside), but I'm yet to hear a compelling argument for how the Guinness Premiership is better, let alone equals, the other big European Leagues.

Because GP is more competitive, Edinburgh came second in this years Magners League yet never looked like getting out of the HC. They bounced off other teams then in the ML who where also shockingly poor and out of the HC aswell. Leinster went into the final with two weeks rest, Leicester came off a war with London Irish in the GP final you tell me who has a advantage. Also 9 years in the running is hardly "infancy".

Also Jackass remember how thsoe "Elite" players from France then got put 5 tries on them by you know who. What sort those that reflect on the playing status in France. They ll also go to SH this summer and be completely humiliated.

Stev_o

Shelby Loose Marinade wrote: »

You have honestly got to be joking,ive never heard such crap in my life.
If there was a joint european league

Clermont,Perpignon,Tolouse and Stade would probbaly claim 3 of the top 4 places.

Look at their squads and tell me they are weak.They just prioritise their domestic competition if anything that shows the quality of their own league.

How many qualified again? One was it and how did they get on? Oh yeah beaten by a far beaten team and then who beat them?

Players names mean nothing results mean everything.

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

How many qualified again? One was it and how did they get on? Oh yeah beaten by a far beaten team and then who beat them?

Players names mean nothing results mean everything.

Do you not understand that they rest players and dont prioritise europe,if they did they would win.

anonymous_joe

Stev_o wrote: »

How many qualified again? One was it and how did they get on? Oh yeah beaten by a far beaten team and then who beat them?

Players names mean nothing results mean everything.

Honestly, dude, I have to disagree.

Clermont down to 14 almost put Munster out of the competition. They play like 8 or so more games than their counterparts in the ML over a season. That takes a huge toll on them.

It also means they have overly large squads stuffed full of Saffers et al to make up the numbers, but seriously, if they played as much as we did, they'd probably do a lot better.

Stev_o

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Honestly, dude, I have to disagree.

Clermont down to 14 almost put Munster out of the competition. They play like 8 or so more games than their counterparts in the ML over a season. That takes a huge toll on them.

It also means they have overly large squads stuffed full of Saffers et al to make up the numbers, but seriously, if they played as much as we did, they'd probably do a lot better.

Now this is where it all gets fuzzy if people are quick to defend the French sides for having a hard league why do they have a problem defending the GP who have a equally hard league.

While i like Clermont they were hit and miss in the HC loosing to Sale home and away really doesn't say much for a club of their quality.

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

Now this is where it all gets fuzzy if people are quick to defend the French sides for having a hard league why do they have a problem defending the GP who have a equally hard league.

While i like Clermont they were hit and miss in the HC loosing to Sale home and away really doesn't say much for a club of their quality.

The GP and the Top 14 dont even compare in levels of toughness.
I would go as far as to sat the Top 14 is the toughest league in the world,the strength and depth you need is astonishing.

2040

Maybe he thought the challenge cup was the heineken cup.:D

Fishtits

Chris Jacks has left Sarries to return to NZ.

One of his stated reasons was that NH Rugby was "easy" and he wanted to be challenged by the higher standards in the SH.

Am I the only one who now tosses this tit into the overflowing basket of Kiwi whingers after these remarks?

IMHO, the only players who can remark on the standard of NH Rugby are those who have won something. Journeymen/Euro hunters such as Jacks come & go.

Contrast his time up here with Rocky E, D Howlett etc.

Failed to make an impact, not a hero around here, ego dented, thus its our fault...

Grow up you tit.

kensutz

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055583752

ScrubsfanChris

Shelby Loose Marinade wrote: »

The GP and the Top 14 dont even compare in levels of toughness.
I would go as far as to sat the Top 14 is the toughest league in the world,the strength and depth you need is astonishing.

+1

Podge_irl

Shelby Loose Marinade wrote: »

The GP and the Top 14 dont even compare in levels of toughness.
I would go as far as to sat the Top 14 is the toughest league in the world,the strength and depth you need is astonishing.

I'd like to know what metric people are using to compare the leagues that allows for such definitive statements. French teams don't always compete strongly away from home. Stade only had to win 16/26 games to reach the play-offs.

You do need a lot of strength in depth for the T14, if for no other reason then its that bit longer. But then again the French don't have a salary cap currently so it makes it that bit easier for them.