Project Natal Discussion

Fol20

So what do you think of the device so far.It looks much more advanced that the gimmicky eyetoy.Does anyone know when its coming out.The thing thats on my mind is how much do you think it will cost when it comes out.I think anything more than 100 will be a hard sell.

Gunmonkey

If Microsoft are smart and use it well it could be good. RTS games would be great to play on 360 with it (we need some good ones) or having a lean function in FPS games where you actually lean to look around corners.

If they just release shovel-ware like the Wii has that are dumb games but use the "full" functions of the controller, then its all a waste of time.

Mikeyt086

They say it can scan the room and recognise faces...

Im more scared than exited. World domination plot anyone?

BlitzKrieg

they were saved from console war fanboy jeering purely because PS3 announced the same bloody thing the next day.

The main thing going for it over the Wii is that its not the core selling point of the console, meaning if it does go gimmicky all for the family, we can treat it like we did with the eyetoy on the ps2, by simply ignoring it. And if they keep the price of it quite low any games that actually make good use of it then it could be easily bundled.

thealltimelow

what about a rpg on this runing with your hands as a sword now that will be fun

SeantheMan

thealltimelow wrote: »

what about a rpg on this runing with your hands as a sword now that will be fun

Do you know how fat and unfit a lot of gamers are ?

Rev. Kitchen

The problem with the Wii was that for example you are playing a boxing game it just registeres a movement speed/power seem to have little effect or if you do 4 or 5 quick punches the guy on screen will still only get through about 2 of them.

This seems to match your movements so boxing could be really fun,or what i want to see a COD sytle game where you run around FPS style with a mock M4 in your hand ducking and blasting away, now that would be class.

I feel it will be a lot of carnival games though like the demo jumping around the front room hitting balls i cant see myself going for a 6 hour long gaming session on that :mad:

thealltimelow

rockband air guitar anyone?
fifa will be fun on this because you will have to run around to get the ball
and by the way i am a gamer and very fit

calex71

im more interested in the tony hawks skateboard than this , be interesting to see how that will work, lord knows that series needs something to drag it from the grave.

BlitzKrieg

the reality is beyond on rails style gaming and mini games, motion control is very inpratical.

I mean think about the type of games named here like Sword fighting: Motion control offers no resistance, so beyond swinging the sword to register a swing when swords strike your movement will go out of sync with the games because you will have not met any resistance (unless you do a wii accident and hit the tv) Not to mention to actually register *running around* would require a nunchuk style interface because running on the spot would be inpratical and not really fun or dynamic. So a contoller element akin to the nunchuk in the wii would have to be added.


motion control is fun I know that, I owned a Wii, but it suffers from being innaccurate and limited, so I rather it fulfilled a gimmick element on a console whcih offered other features rather then be the central focus. I think both sony and microsoft are too late to exploit that advantage over the Wii though.

Professey Chin

I gotta admit I liked the ideas behind it, mainly the menu interface but as far as games go I dont think id ever really use it.
And that Milo(Mylo?) thing just creeped me out and I think it was very very fake (mainly since oul peter pretty much admitted there was a director using it.Ill find that link)

rizzla

I can see alot of interactive board games coming out for it, similar to those ones where you'd put in a tape (VCR, old, I know) and have some person on the screen, narrating. With voice and jesture recgonition it would be a bit of fun.

I believe however that when a serious, violent and mature game gets released that fully uses the tech people will go nuts and it will be very controversial.

I still prefer to use a joypad though, as will most gamers.

JohnK

Have to say I thought the demos looked pretty impressive almost to the point where I'd consider buying a console. Maybe I'm blind but I cant remember seeing any release date anywhere. Is it something thats semi-close to being in shops or is it still very much a work in progress?

I do wonder though are console manufacturers going too much in the way of interactive controllers? As SeantheMan mentioned a lot of gamers aren't exactly the fittest or most energetic of people so theres a real danger of people just turning off the game a lot sooner.

BlitzKrieg

I can see alot of interactive board games coming out for it

I'm waiting for a yu ghi mon/pokemon style game, like the one they had for the ps3, but in this one you would be standing, pull the card out the camera identifies the card and your monster will appear in the game. Then you will be able to direct your monster/pokemon by hand motions and shouts while watching it battle your opponents on the screen, that be cool in a sad way.

THough I expect the first use of it will be the motion map your rock band character to your motions as you play rockband, so that you can score points for jumping around like a madman while playing

alastair_doom

Lots of potential with this thing. I think we'll see Windows 7 integration pretty soon too.

Kinetic^

I actually thought the thread title was "Post Natal Depression" and was like wtf when I seen it in the xbox forum.

Onearmedbandit

Kinetic^ wrote: »

I actually thought the thread title was "Post Natal Depression" and was like wtf when I seen it in the xbox forum.

Ha ha technically it is "Post Natal Depression" I dont think its going to go well.

How much do you reckon MS will want for it? If they are looking for hundreds for a drum kit how much for a totally different control system?

JohnK

Wouldnt surprise me to see Natal going for 150~200 euro but I'd guess they'll bundle some simple game with it just so you can use it out of the box.

duploelabs

it also depends on how literal they will take the interaction. E.g love to see someone do Guile's spin kick in real life

alastair_doom

How much do you reckon MS will want for it? If they are looking for hundreds for a drum kit how much for a totally different control system?

Depends how its implemented. I'd imagine its a few camera's, a microphone, and all the rest is done in software.

Could be cheap to physically produce. With the strength of the Wii and its already large fanbase, and Sony releasing something similar, probably near enough the same time, if they want this to be competitive they're gonna have to make it cheap.

+ if anyone is going to underprice something, just for the sake a hurting its competitors, its microsoft.

Onearmedbandit

That Milo thing looks crap, I didn't buy an xbox to mess around with some kid on a swing. Im all for the advanced motion control that Natal should bring but not what is essentially a glorified tamagotchi.

smooch71

Kinetic^ wrote: »

I actually thought the thread title was "Post Natal Depression" and was like wtf when I seen it in the xbox forum.

Post RROD Depression maybe....

Professey Chin

Onearmedbandit wrote: »

That Milo thing looks crap, I didn't buy an xbox to mess around with some kid on a swing. Im all for the advanced motion control that Natal should bring but not what is essentially a glorified tamagotchi.

Does that mean we can kill it if we dont feed it?:pac:

Moojuice

Onearmedbandit wrote: »

That Milo thing looks crap, I didn't buy an xbox to mess around with some kid on a swing. Im all for the advanced motion control that Natal should bring but not what is essentially a glorified tamagotchi.

Thats hilarious! and so true. It doesnt work the way the demo makes out. Its a demo, they can make anything work in a demo. The gesture control might work well but the voice and face recognition along with the emotion recognition DOES not work in that way. I work in that area and there is nothing close to what Natal claims, certainly not with the smoothness and accuracy that it seems to have.

Fingleberries

From the information on Kotaku and a couple of other sites, it looks like the company that makes the basic devices expected to originally be able to ship the hardware at a sub-$100 price tag.

• Microsoft's Rumored Motion Controller May Be The ZCam ...
• Microsoft To Buy Motion-Sensing Company - News
• Rumored Microsoft 3D Wii killer

For me, it looks like it could be interesting if they can get the main developers on board with it quickly. The fact that they had Burnout Paradise running with it fairly well gives some hope for future and that proper games will use it, not just as a gimmick.

To get it to really take off, they need to have a few killer games ready to go at launch (either XBLA or retail), or a way to try to implement it in existing games. Otherwise you end up with a nice feature that is just under utilised: Big Button Controllers (pretty much just Scene It), the XBox Live Camera (ehm?) or even the Avatars (only used in a couple of games beyond having the avatar flap about like Bomberman or Uno). If that happens, it'll just fade away...

For one thing, lets just hope they keep it away from Ubisoft or Majesco (Cooking Mama-style Shovelware anyone?).

[EDIT]Oooh. I just thought - imagine a Dead Rising integrated with this

[Double Edit] I just thought again - imagine the possibility of an UNO integrated with it ... Ewwwwwww *Shudder*

BlitzKrieg

btw the trailer for it is officially on my hate list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oACt9R9z37U

Professey Chin

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

btw the trailer for it is officially on my hate list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oACt9R9z37U

Oh god that music, those cheery families.THEY ALL MUST DIE!:mad:

Atavan-Halen

Yay, more happy family trailers. As if we didn't have enough of them already :rolleyes:

I doubt Natal will bring what it promises. I had a look at the video for it on the Inside Xbox section of the 360 dash, and it's quite glitchy at the moment. There is time to clean it up though but I don't think it will flow as seamlessly as it looks in the video.

Basq

I liked the idea.. and the implementation looked fun. But I just think the demo video is giving us false hope.

I don't think it's gonna be nearly as accurate as it portrays, I predict they'll mainly follow the Wii's mainly "Party Game" releases with it (which is the reason I sold my Wii in the first place and bought a 360) and I can see quite a hefty price tag on it (in the €199 - €250 range).

I'd also say it probably won't be released this side of Christmas... or at Christmas. Could be a big seller if released on the "kiddies" for the Christmas.

abelard

You don't have to think quite so literally about this in terms of controlling a game.

The best example of what I'm trying to say would be a soccer game. People assume, given the moniker motion control, that it'll be all about running and flapping and kicking yourself. What I would prefer, interms of interaction, is a freedom to just use your hands to "direct" what your players do.

For example, no soccer game has ever let you take very much control of players off the ball (or players other than your "active" player). Natal would open up the possibility of hugely strategic play by letting you use a hand to direct a player to make a run in a certain direction or to a certain location.

Say if your team is attacking. Player A has the ball, and you want to split open your opponents defense. By almost "grabbing" Player B, and tracing a path with your hand, you could get the inactive player to make the exact run you want, and pick out the pass with Player A.

While that idea isn't perfect, it's the kind of direction I'd like to see them go with rather than the "waggle" style (trying to make you "do" all the actions) that's so unfortunately plagued many Wii games thus far.

rizzla

abelard wrote: »

For example, no soccer game has ever let you take very much control of players off the ball (or players other than your "active" player). Natal would open up the possibility of hugely strategic play by letting you use a hand to direct a player to make a run in a certain direction or to a certain location.

Say if your team is attacking. Player A has the ball, and you want to split open your opponents defense. By almost "grabbing" Player B, and tracing a path with your hand, you could get the inactive player to make the exact run you want, and pick out the pass with Player A.

Pro Evo on the Wii lets you do exactly that already. Have a couple players go on dummy runs to open the defense then pass it to a third person on a run and score. But it could be done with Natal aswell.

I say the price will be $100 or under. Anymore and people just won't buy it, especailly if it retails as the same price as the console.

faceman

Some early hands on experience here:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/03/project-natal-video-hands-on-impressions-and-further-details/

I just cant see how it could work with just 2 cameras on top of your telly.

smk89

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

They say it can scan the room and recognise faces...

Im more scared than exited. World domination plot anyone?

Its microsoft. If they try world domination all their evil equipment will get a bsod

JohnK

Well they certainly seemed impressed with it so thats good but it sucks the guy said no way to it shipping in '09 . I guess that means we have quite a wait ahead before we can try it for ourselves unless its just to throw people off so they get super excited when MS announce a Christmas release

Anyone have an idea of the usual wait time from announcement to release of a product? Also whats the chances it'll ship with a bunch of virtual controllers so you dont need any of the current gen stuff you already have? The fact they could rig it up to the racing game surely indicates its possible.

Professey Chin

faceman wrote: »

Some early hands on experience here:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/03/project-natal-video-hands-on-impressions-and-further-details/

I just cant see how it could work with just 2 cameras on top of your telly.

Im more suspicious that they say it will work in any light.
I know it uses an IR camera so itll pick up the body heat grand but if its dark and couldnt use the regular camera to distinguish people wouldnt a lot of the heat signitures just meld intogether. And IR doesnt exactly recognise faces

CrazyRabbit

Onearmedbandit wrote: »

That Milo thing looks crap, I didn't buy an xbox to mess around with some kid on a swing. Im all for the advanced motion control that Natal should bring but not what is essentially a glorified tamagotchi.

The idea of the Milo demo was to demonstrate the AI, emotional interaction & the abilty to respond sensibly to users questions. Oh, and being able to draw something on paper and hand it over to a virtual character to 'look' at is pretty cool imho.

IBM's Project Watson, combined with the Natal technology would be amazing....it'll practically be skynet

Professey Chin

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

The idea of the Milo demo was to demonstrate the AI, emotional interaction & the abilty to respond sensibly to users questions. Oh, and being able to draw something on paper and hand it over to a virtual character to 'look' at is pretty cool imho.

IBM's Project Watson, combined with the Natal technology would be amazing....it'll practically be skynet

Didnt Molyneux(sp?) say that was mainly being controlled by input behind the scenes though and not actual AI?

Fol20

Onearmedbandit,how did you not realise it was showing off the new ai..?that was a no brainer ya idiot

Asmodean

Yeah I was reading an article by one of the IGN writers who said that as he was 'interacting' with Milo there was a rep on a laptop nearby furiously bashing at a keyboard. I wonder how much he was controlling? Also Molyneux was heavily directing the interactions that were taking place so IMO the AI is nothing to get too excited about at this point in time.Apparently if you say anything to Milo that wasn't in the demo video he starts freaking out and can't understand what you're saying. lol

Headshot

Microsoft big cheese Shane Kim has said Rare is working with Xbox 360 motion-sensing technology Project Natal.

"Rare is intimately involved with Project Natal in a number of different dimensions. They're doing an awful lot of work, even outside the traditional game space, I would say," Kim told Kotaku.

"Unfortunately I can't go into a lot of detail about that. Rare is alive and well and really having a broader impact on the entire Xbox world than just doing the games they traditionally have in the past."

Microsoft has used internal studio Rare to work on top secret projects before; the Viva Piñata creator was behind the New Xbox Experience Avatars, which launched last November.

good god no

banquo

They're probably still figuring out how to ''do'' games on it. Might be some extra hardware needed. I imagine the regular controller will also be an option.

What strikes me as the most important is how this object recognition could work in the home - things like calling out the name of a game, song, tv station or film and it coming on the tv. It's also a sign of the further blending between PC and TV.

Google have been doing a lot of work on object recognition, though a collaboration is doubtful for obvious reasons.

This will either be amazing or crap. Like most Microsoft projects, I imagine it'll be the typical case of ''Hey, you know what they should have put in but didn't because they want to limit and control everything you do so it's impossible to use a competitor's product? Basic feature X''

Stranjak

I only have a PS3
But I can't see it being long before Sony gets something similiar

BlitzKrieg

they did already its called eyetoy.

and they are getting their own motion controller aswell they revealed it at e3 aswell.

koHd

People that just see the Breakout demonstration, without actually looking at Project Natal in full detail, do actually think it's just like Eyetoy.

But, comparing eyetoy to Project Natal is like comparing the original GameBoy to the Nintendo DS.

Yes they are essentially in the same technological family, but Project Natal is light years ahead of Eyetoy technology.

Anybody that thinks otherwise really needs to do some more research on what exactly Natal is promising here. It can revolutionize not just gaming, but home entertainment and consumer technology as a whole.

5uspect

For a stereo vision system the camera's are pretty close together.
I can imagine it being good for figuring out your general position in respect to the television but I'm highly sceptical of it being able to interpret limb movements accurately.

smooch71

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

btw the trailer for it is officially on my hate list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oACt9R9z37U

Oh I don't know.

I love seeing all-American families playing together on their X Bawks

Apple pie anyone?

I wish my family was like that, my missus never picks up the controller.

Can't wait though till she's playing Formula 1 with her invisible steering wheel and I can change her tyres with my invisible wheelgun.

What's with the bike in the corner of the sitting room though?

BlitzKrieg

right lets get down to the important issue here.

what will this do for the fledging video game porn industry?

Will the 360 sales in japan sore when hentai games are released for this?

What will the next leisure suit larry game be like?

Basq

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

right lets get down to the important issue here.

what will this do for the fledging video game porn industry?

Will the 360 sales in japan sore when hentai games are released for this?

What will the next leisure suit larry game be like?

Mother: "(knocks on door) Honey, do you want some din..?"
Son: "DON'T COME INTO MY ROOM.. I'M PLAYING XBOX!"
Mother: "(to father) Billy is upstairs to masturbating to Ratchet & Clank again. It could be worse.. at least he's moved on from "herding animals" in 'Viva Pinata'!"

** shudder **

5uspect

Wait til Jack Thompson gets wind of this.

Professey Chin

5uspect wrote: »

Wait til Jack Thompson gets wind of this.

Ah he's disbarred. Nothing to fear anymore

CrazyRabbit

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Ah he's disbarred. Nothing to fear anymore

Unless he goes postal and runs into the offices or Rockstar games armed to the teeth.