Unfrequent Flyer

LegacyUser

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on the following: basically I'm flying alone to Tokyo by way or Paris in a number of weeks with... wait for it... AIR FRANCE.....!!!!!!!!! (heart sinks..) My issue is this - I haven't flown in several years because I hate it, in fact it scares the living bejaysus outta me and that is an understatement. No amount of alcohol, chirpy expressions, back pattings or suggestions of hypnosis are going to change how I feel. Trust me.

So, I'm wondering what can I take to completely numb myself but to the point of still being functional to make the change in Paris and then preferably remain comatose for the ensuing 11+ hours to Tokyo. Will Xanax be enough to render me emotionless and desensitized? (I understand that medical advice is not given in these forums, I'm only looking for some pointers, I need to know what works and how it feels from a personal perspective - I will seek further advice from my GP once I get some ideas on peoples experiences - hope the mods understand as this is a huge issue for me)

I cannot stress enough the sheer horror I experience on a plane so no placebos please - I need the real McCoy. Oh, and the media coverage of the Air France flight 447 crash has only heightened my phobia to the point of frenzy.

Really need help with this one folks as I'm contemplating not going if I cannot put myelf in a state of blissful unawareness - it just wouldn't be worth the 14 hours of hell I'd have to endure, my heart would probably cave on me.

Thanks in advance, I appreciate any info & advice as it may just save my holiday.

jhegarty

See a doctor.

Svalbard

My advice.......its infrequent.
But seriously, you have a statistically higher chance of being gored to death by a bull than dying on a plane. If you're that terrified, don't go. And for the love of God don't go to your doctor demanding horse tranquilisers!

artanevilla

Xanax did the job for me, ask your doctor.

Silverfish

Howya,

I can completely sympathise. I avoided flying for several years after a scary flight, then for a further 3 years after another one.

There at the start of may, I went on my longest flight ( four hours! On a plane!) and then, days later, I got on a plane and flew back.

Solution? I went to my gp. Seriously, if you are that scared, yet you still want to go / have tickets booked / HAVE to go, then really, there's no point trying anything that just *might* work, because then you'll just have the fear of the fear coming up to it.

Go to your GP and explain what flights you're going on and how long they'll be, and especially how scared you are, and they'll help you.

chickenhawk

You'll probably just dismiss this (and you have every right too) but KLM and Virgin do courses for people who are afraid of flying. I know you'll think it won't work for you but that's what everyone who goes on the courses say and they have a huge success rate! Can't hurt to try it can it??

IRISH RAIL

First class
Seriously forget tablets etc go first class and they really pamper you anywhere i go now except uk flights i always go one step up and its worth it,
from the moment you check in your not crowded with anyone no waiting for boarding and nice comfy seats and free drinks with a menu for dinner youll barley even know your on a plane.

Dudess

One Air France flight being tragically hit by disaster (which it seems would have happened to any plane from any company that was misfortunate enough to have been flying in that zone at that time) doesn't mean all Air France aircrafts are at risk - the opposite I'd say in light of the tragedy.

Davidth88

There is a school of thought that says ' lightning does not strike twice '.

So Air France is possibly the safest airline in the world right now.

Would knowing how aeroplanes work, and why they are the safest form of transport you can take ( Mondays terrible events not withstanding ) ? If so
why not post over on the Aviation Forum , there are lots of people there who would be able/happy to help, including any number of serving flight crew .


You may not be able to see past the flight right now , but Tokyo is a incredible place , concentrate on this maybe ?

Pherekydes

OP, I'm guessing you'd have no problem with using other forms of transport, like buses, taxis and the like? You put your faith in the people who drive and maintain these vehicles probably without a a second's thought. Aircraft maintenance engineers go through years of training and certification, so do flight crew, and the people who guide you through the skies, the ATC people, have extremely stringent training to get where they are. If you want to get to Tokyo, then flying is by far the safest way.

RossFixxxed

I recently flew to london to bahrain to nepal. I absolutely HATE flying. Then I had to get into a little 18 seater plane and land in Lukla airport, it's 3,000 meters up on a CLIFF FACE (youtube it seriously it's horrible)! I'm not scared of flying anymore, or else I'm so scared I don't care!

The only 2 things you can do are:
1) Go to the doctor if it is that bad and he may give you something for the day
2) Live with it.

I'd recommend 2 if you can! The thought of it is so much worse than actually doing it. Once I got up in the air I was excited, and happy to be travelling.

Make sure you're not hungover/drunk. Get some nice natural sleep. If you can go first/business class. I was stuck for 21 hours in steerage with vomiting and... well worse than vomiting!! And the little chairs were an issue! Above all just go and get to where you're going and be excited!!

R

miss no stars

Monday was a freak accident, I know it's difficult but do try to put it out of your mind. Air France are an extremely reliable, extremely well trained and maintained airline. Other airlines look to them to see how to do things well. You're in very good hands with Air France.

I'm not afraid of flying so I can't empathise, but I imagine all the stats about how it's the safest form of transport wouldn't really make much of a difference to me. My advice is DON'T get drunk and don't take anything before the flight. All that does is dull your mind and make your body behave strangely. You're better off in full control of your body and mind. Sometimes tranquilisers help for some people, but some other people can end up panicking because they are out of control and it spirals downward because they can't do anything about the panick they're in. As you're flying alone, this is best left as an option to try when you're not panicking and when there are people that know you around you.

At check in, ask them to give you a seat as far forward as possible with no view of the wing. TELL them you're a nervous flyer. A lot of the time, if you're really nervous, say it to the cabin crew and one of the pilots might come down and chat to you if you want them to. Don't be afraid to ask for this - most of them are more than willing to spend a few minutes calming a nervous flyer down.

SarahSassy

Aer Lingus also do the nervous passenger 'training' course.

OP, these people operating and maintianing the flights are incredibly highly trained. On top of the training they do to become pilots, they are checked by their airline every 6 months to ensure that they are still competent to fly. They also have to pass the entire cirriculum every 5 years so they never fall short of the standard required. In fairness, a person can become a heart surgeon at 30 and never be examined again - they people are constantly assessed. You are in safe hands...

Its more dangerous driving the M50 than flying to tokyo....

yeneewss

Go to your GP and talk to them. Then GO GET ON THAT PLANE. To think of missing out on such an opportunity because of one fear is crazy. You can do something about your fear but you will not be able to do anything about the regret you will feel if you don't go. Flying myself to England on Friday but my fears are more about Ryanair and how many glitches and hurdles they can put in front of me before they let me on a plane!

CDfm

Go to the GP.

A friend of mine who works for an airline always says " the pilot wants to get there(the destination) as much as you".

You used to get Airport tours for nervous flyers - I wonder do they still do them.

Danbo!

A few suggestions:

1) Visit your GP as said above

2) This site looks a little ropey and out of date, but it worked for me.

http://www.fearofflyinghelp.com/

A few years back I loved flying, and then I developed a really intense fear of flying, for no apparent reason. This went on for a few years and I tried the site above about 3 years back. Completely free, it just explains how everything works, explains safety checks and standards, and explains 'normal' noises you will hear in-flight that would usually stress you out and worry you.. (landing gear, flaps, reverse thrust, etc...) It might not work for everyone, and the only thing you have to lose is an hour or so of your time, try it!

3) I know the next suggestion sounds completely off-the-wall crazy, but... watch Air Crash Investigation. Its on National geographic channel, and there are places you can watch it online. You will see how many variables there are and how it takes a series of problems & errors to cause any incident, which really lowers the chances of a problem. Backup systems and backup backup systems all in place to ensure safety, and everything is triple checked. You will also see from the program that after every crash, there are directives and moves to ensure a similar incident will never happen again. Therefore lowering chances even further.

Air France have a very good safety record, and, as said above, are technically the safest airline in the world after Monday. Your flight (Dublin-Paris-Tokyo?) will also be over land 99.9% of the flight time, so also always near an airport if that puts your mind at ease.

Whatever you do, get this sorted before you go, don't just grin and bear it. If you do, as soon as you get to Tokyo, you will relax and think, 'that wasn't too bad, now to go enjoy myself', only to realise you have to do it all again for the return trip, and spend the whole time there stressing even more.

LegacyUser

Ive done that trip a million times (live in tokyo) and its a doodle. I dont really like flying, as in I grip the armrests with every noise/bump/glide, but in general there is very little of that on this route. I'm sure that doesnt help your fear much so go to the doc and get him to advise you on the best 'happy pill' hes got. Sleep on the Paris flight and next thing you know, you will arrive in Tokyo. Good luck.

The_Conductor

I fly regularly with numerous different carriers. Air France are one of the best out there- lovely staff, new aircraft, good facilities, food thats semi edible, CDG2 terminal- I could go on...... Nothwithstanding the accident- I would have no hesitation whatsoever in recommending Air France/KLM to anyone.

miss no stars

Stee wrote: »

3) I know the next suggestion sounds completely off-the-wall crazy, but... watch Air Crash Investigation. Its on National geographic channel, and there are places you can watch it online. You will see how many variables there are and how it takes a series of problems & errors to cause any incident, which really lowers the chances of a problem. Backup systems and backup backup systems all in place to ensure safety, and everything is triple checked. You will also see from the program that after every crash, there are directives and moves to ensure a similar incident will never happen again. Therefore lowering chances even further.

Air France have a very good safety record, and, as said above, are technically the safest airline in the world after Monday. Your flight (Dublin-Paris-Tokyo?) will also be over land 99.9% of the flight time, so also always near an airport if that puts your mind at ease.

Just a couple of things about the above - if you do watch air crash investigation - don't forget that technology on board and quality of materials used in the aircraft have improved quite a bit since any of the incidents, making those scenarios even less likely. Not to mention the fact that if some major incident does happen, how to deal with it correctly is then included in pilot training for the future. Flying is getting progressively safer - don't forget that!

Also, no matter where in the world you're flying to the route MUST be within I think an hour and a halfs flying time (that figure might well be wrong, but it's something around that) of a qualifying alternate - that means that if you're in an airplane, no matter how big it is it will always be within that hour and a half of an airport that has a runway big and strong enough - with sufficient fire facilities - to allow that airplane to land. ALWAYS.

aibby

Unregistered wrote: »

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on the following: basically I'm flying alone to Tokyo by way or Paris in a number of weeks with... wait for it... AIR FRANCE.....!!!!!!!!! (heart sinks..) My issue is this - I haven't flown in several years because I hate it, in fact it scares the living bejaysus outta me and that is an understatement. No amount of alcohol, chirpy expressions, back pattings or suggestions of hypnosis are going to change how I feel. Trust me.

So, I'm wondering what can I take to completely numb myself but to the point of still being functional to make the change in Paris and then preferably remain comatose for the ensuing 11+ hours to Tokyo. Will Xanax be enough to render me emotionless and desensitized? (I understand that medical advice is not given in these forums, I'm only looking for some pointers, I need to know what works and how it feels from a personal perspective - I will seek further advice from my GP once I get some ideas on peoples experiences - hope the mods understand as this is a huge issue for me)

I cannot stress enough the sheer horror I experience on a plane so no placebos please - I need the real McCoy. Oh, and the media coverage of the Air France flight 447 crash has only heightened my phobia to the point of frenzy.

Really need help with this one folks as I'm contemplating not going if I cannot put myelf in a state of blissful unawareness - it just wouldn't be worth the 14 hours of hell I'd have to endure, my heart would probably cave on me.

Thanks in advance, I appreciate any info & advice as it may just save my holiday.

I know how you feel, I have the same problem. I can sympathize with what you are going through. I usually just drink to get through flights. The doctor would prob give you xanax, having said that I have never tried it. And statistically flying is the safest form of transport, as everyone keeps telling me. I hope you will go and enjoy your holiday.

iguana

I'm not the worlds best flyer, I have a number of tricks that I use to get me through a short flight and they help. But for long haul I prefer to get some chemical help with it.

When I went to Chicago in March my gp gave me a couple of diazapam for the return flight. It was pretty good. I was still aware of what I was going on, and intellectually aware that I was nervous without actually being nervous, iykwim. I have to say that I'll be doing that for long-haul flights in future.

LegacyUser

Any kind of benzodiazapine will do the trick (xanax is one). Just make sure you get enough from the doctor, a flight to Tokyo and back is looooong. Also, dont expect to be top of your game whenever you arrive, esp if you need to take a couple

sunnyside

Not intended as medical advice but about the Xanax, have you taken them before? If not it would help if you take one before bed some night (Xanax is not a sleeping pill by the way, it's a tranqualizer like valium) just to check how you react to it because it comes in different strengths and the day of the flight isn't the best time for working out how much you need. A sleeping tablet might work better for you. Discuss with GP.

elvis2002

If you take a xanax when you get on the 2nd flight in France you will be out of it for about 10 hours. Your speech and movement abilities will be very slow so probably you won't get the food or anything. If your going for Xanax make sure get a window seat as you won't be capable of moving if someone wants to go to the toilet.

I fly easily 100 plus flights a year with work and one of my colleagues brought some Xanax back from Thailand for long haul flights. It's a knockout within about 30 minutes I'd say. You'd wake up in Tokyo dazed and confused not knowing where you are. If you are that scared then go the GP and tell him and he'll give you some stuff.

Sleeping pills do nothing imho,then again I'm not afraid of flying as what'll happen will happen.

Madame Razz

smccarrick wrote: »

I fly regularly with numerous different carriers. Air France are one of the best out there- lovely staff, new aircraft, good facilities, food thats semi edible, CDG2 terminal- I could go on...... Nothwithstanding the accident- I would have no hesitation whatsoever in recommending Air France/KLM to anyone.

I completely agree.

Air France/KLM are absolutely superb to fly with.

Talk to your GP OP, they can definately sort you out with something.

It is good to trial them before you go tho; as a previous poster suggested.

netwhizkid

A person I know had a morbid fear of flying and never flew, instead of trying the usual solutions like medication, getting drunk onboard, hypnosis etc. She actually went and took flying lessons & liked it so much that she went ahead and even go herself a pilots licence (which is no mean feat phobia or otherwise).

It sounds very "thrown in at the deep end" but as the saying goes you must tackle the bull by the horns and confront this head on, no amount of xanax or anything will beat this you must get over whatever psychological fear you have of it yourself. I fly regularly like everyone else and had a few scary moments myself as the plane flew into thunderstorms over Nebraska and Iowa. However when you land on the ground and get into your car it is then that you are in danger not on the plane.

AARRRGH

Pherekydes wrote: »

OP, I'm guessing you'd have no problem with using other forms of transport, like buses, taxis and the like? You put your faith in the people who drive and maintain these vehicles probably without a a second's thought. Aircraft maintenance engineers go through years of training and certification, so do flight crew, and the people who guide you through the skies, the ATC people, have extremely stringent training to get where they are. If you want to get to Tokyo, then flying is by far the safest way.

That isn't going to help the OP. It's a phobia. And anyway, you can't compare a bus crash with a plane crash, for starters, only one of them happens a mile up in the sky while travelling at 500 miles per hour...

OP: the only solution is drugs. Talk to your doctor.

LegacyUser

I travelled that route myself only last month, whatever you do, don't get pissed on the plane or fill yourself with sedatives, you'll need your wits about you when you arrive in Japan, immigration there take fingerprints and photos of arriving passengers. What I would advise is bring a big warm jumper in your hand luggage as the blankets on the plane aren't very thick and I found it cool on the flight. During the entire flight the plane simulates 'night' with the blinds closed, so just keep warm and close your eyes and try to sleep. The horrible thing about that flight is the entertainment system....it's just too good to leave alone, you'll find you'll land in Japan having watched half a dozen movies.
Just keep your mind on your destination, it is a wonderful, safe country and the people are very friendly.

passive

AARRRGH wrote: »

you can't compare a bus crash with a plane crash, for starters, only one of them happens a mile up in the sky while travelling at 500 miles per hour...

and the other one happens a thousand times more often...

LegacyUser

Doh! The title of my original post should have read "Infrequent Flyer" and not "Un.."!!!

Many thanks folks, all your posts have been great, I checked out the link suggestions and took on board your thoughts. Think I'll go with Xanax from my GP, it's prob the best option for me. Cheers for suggesting a trial run of the meds before I go also - I hadn't thought of that one and it makes perfect sense. Think I might also check out the hypnosis suggestion or at least research it too.

Your words of encouragment have helped a great deal - I really appreciate you all taking the time out to respond. I'll give it a shot but if the flight over is in anyway dodgy I'm paddling back....!

miss no stars

Can people REALLY not see the SAFETY issue with taking tranquillizers or sleeping pills? Seriously?

Look, if you're afraid of flying stop for a moment and apply logic. An aircraft is only certified to carry passangers if everyone on board can be evacuated within 90 seconds. That time limit was picked for a reason. If worst came to worst, do you think you'll get out in that time if you're drugged up to your eyeballs?

Learn about flying to help you get over the fear. Get used to short trips if you can afford it, if not go to one of those nervous flyers courses. Don't dope yourself up.

Pherekydes

AARRRGH wrote: »

That isn't going to help the OP. It's a phobia. And anyway, you can't compare a bus crash with a plane crash, for starters, only one of them happens a mile up in the sky while travelling at 500 miles per hour...

OP: the only solution is drugs. Talk to your doctor.

If it's a phobia then the only answer is rationale, not drugs.

I wasn't comparing a bus crash with a plane crash. I was comparing the way we trust the people operating these types of transport, the way they are maintained and the certification process.

AARRRGH

passive wrote: »

and the other one happens a thousand times more often...

That's irrelevant, as we're dealing with a phobia.

People need to stop "talking sense" and look at this issue in the context of a phobia. Normal logic does not apply. If you don't have any phobias it's unlikely you'll be able to relate to the OP, or understand why he's suffering.

Pherekydes

AARRRGH wrote: »

People need to stop "talking sense"...

Kudos!

craichoe

OP

We live in the Netherlands and visit Ireland, beyond taking a balls of a long drive home on ferries we fly, just used to it now. But if this makes you feel better we were over in a friend of a friends house in England.

When we were in there he had shelves full of little blue delft houses, which are basically little bottles full of bols, he had around 100 on the shelf he asked if we wanted to bring home some because he had another 390 of them stored around the house.

YOU GET ONE LITTLE DELFT HOUSE WITH BOLS IN IT WHEN YOU FLY A LONG HAUL FLIGHT WITH KLM.

Believe me, the roads are far more dangerous, or the sea, or getting hit by a bus crossing the road.

I get where your coming from OP, i have an irrational fear of bees but i'm aware of it and control it

don't take any sort of drugs flying long haul .. its a bad idea .. just remember that they have never trialled/tested people that take drugs on a long haul flight in a pressurised environment.

Just conquer it in your mind, sure if something goes wrong what can you do about it ? ... most stuff in life is the same anyway.

CDfm

miss no stars wrote: »

Can people REALLY not see the SAFETY issue with taking tranquillizers or sleeping pills? Seriously?

I agree on the medication side and how the OP rationalises the drugs with whatever fear exists. Surely that event will still have potential.

If its anxiety try hypnosis.

lots2lose

Op - I had a awful fear of flying that I had to conquer when a friend became ill in the states, I was going to have to fly from Ireland and take lots of internal flights and was in a panic - the most I had flown before was to the UK and there was always lots of turbelance..I would totally clam up and flying was the worst experience of my life.

Instead of taking pills you need to prepare imagine how it will feel when you are at your destination,Make sure you are packed early and well rested - in your carry on have some books/water spray or wipes and anything else that will need.

Long Haul flights are so big that once you are up in the air you will forget you are on a plane! and every hour they are either feeding you or showing movies! once the seatbelt sign is off get up and strecth your legs etc.

Sit close to the Airhostesses and keep your eye on them you will notice how carefree they are and once they are up and pottering about you will feel at ease,if you are really anxious mention it to a airline staff member too.

Dont Drink and get plenty of sleep before flight- Alcohol will make your nerves and Jetlag worse believe it or not what I use is some rescue remedy in water this stuff is great for relaxing you and can be taken as often as you like you can spray it on your tongue or add a few drops to water!

When your feeling ok on the flight and fancy a tipple go for it! (not to many tho:)

Your in safe hands a pilot and his crew are not gonna go near the air if they are 100% confident you will arrive safely..

Accidents happen and the Air France incident was unfortunate and tragic but you cant let it hold you back.

Remember you will get there and you will have a great time


hope this helps x

LegacyUser

I also have an EXTREME fear of flying, in fact the last flight i took was Shannon - Beauvais and i actually thought i would pass out with fear. It was actually so bad that i never nearly got on the plane home! I had a double brandy before i got on and the only driving force was that i was so determined to get home and see my daughter (we were only gone for three days!). Anyway to make a long story short, the evening we got home i hadnt felt right at all, i got into bed and was shaking all over, heart palpitations the whole lot, ended up seeing the dr on call at 11pm that night and he told me it was anxiety from the flights that had built up so much that it was now overflowing. I actually felt that i was going to die it was that bad! He gave me two xanax to take, i took one there and then and by the time we got home (30 min drive) i was comatose with sleep. My gp has since told me never to get on a flight again without taking something so basically, TAKE THE XANAX! Its great!

ValleyoftheDoll

I hate flying as well, but I don't like the idea of taking xanax or similar so I have used Rescue Remedy, I find it helps take the edge off my fear,

Terpsichore

I have used Melatonin when I went to South Africa. It's an over the counter product from your local health store. It helps to regulate your sleep patern while traveling, and minimise jet lag. I found it very efficient for me. Just one pill under your tongue just before sleeping. Et voilá!

Of course, it's to be used very scarcely, and perhaps with your Doc's advice.

Take it only once you're onboard your long haul flight. Not before as the effect can be imediate.

Very important: don't forget your earplugs and eye mask to cut the maximum of noises and light out. A good jumber, a track suit bottom is best for comfort and a good pair of socks so you don't travel/sleep with your shoes on all night. Maybe some special flight socks as it can help with circulation which is also good for relaxation.
Don't forget to keep your blood circulate by walking or excercising your limbs while seating. The inflight magazine will explain you how to.
Drink plenty of water to keep hydrated, and maybe have some moisturising cream with you for your face.

But hey, once you see all the fantastice AirFrance inflight entertainment, you won't want to take the pill anymore!

Bon Voyage!

Silverfish

Unregistered wrote: »

He gave me two xanax to take, i took one there and then and by the time we got home (30 min drive) i was comatose with sleep. My gp has since told me never to get on a flight again without taking something so basically, TAKE THE XANAX! Its great!

elvis2002 wrote: »

If you take a xanax when you get on the 2nd flight in France you will be out of it for about 10 hours. Your speech and movement abilities will be very slow so probably you won't get the food or anything. If your going for Xanax make sure get a window seat as you won't be capable of moving if someone wants to go to the toilet.

I fly easily 100 plus flights a year with work and one of my colleagues brought some Xanax back from Thailand for long haul flights. It's a knockout within about 30 minutes I'd say. You'd wake up in Tokyo dazed and confused not knowing where you are. If you are that scared then go the GP and tell him and he'll give you some stuff.

Sleeping pills do nothing imho,then again I'm not afraid of flying as what'll happen will happen.

I'm not sure what xanax people are being prescribed, but when I was prescribed it, it did nothing of the above. I was able to get up and walk around the plane, read for the whole four hour flight, and stay awake the whole way - AND lug my suitcase around the place when I got there as well.

On the flight back, I slept, but it was at 1am in the morning having been mountain trekking all day. So unless you're prescribed an extremely heavy dosage, the 'unable to move / comatose' thing is extremely unlikely.

It just removes the fear, you're still aware of where you are, what you're doing, you're just able to rationalise it more.

Miss Fluff

First of all well done on grabbing life by the balls and booking your flight to Tokyo regardless of your fear of flying - I think it's great that you are not letting it impinge on your lifestyle so kudos to you OP:)

My folks do a lot of globe-trotting and Mum swears by half a valium before a flight. It won't render you a dribbling incontinent mess, merely chill you out and relax you. Get yourself to your GP, explain your fear and they will definitely prescribe you something to make it a little bit easier for you.

Have a great holiday by the way!:)

_sparkie_

whatever you do dont go to disney land, you are more at risk of dying there then in a plane crash.

wylo

the ignorance that people without a fear of flying have towards people with the fear is unreal in this thread.
All this sh1t about "You're more likely to get torn apart by a bull..."
"you're more likely to die on the way to the airport"
"Lightening doesnt strike twice"
"airplanes are the safest form or transport"
"Airfrance are great".

None of it helps, its a psychological problem, a lack of control, a lack of having your feet on the ground. Dreading it for months in advance.

I don't have a fear but its in my family, and its so bad my mother hasnt left the country for year and years, with the exception of England, because she can get a Ferry. The funny thing is she loves aircrash investigation , or any other of the aircraft documentarys, about Airbus or whatever.

I just thought Id post to say fair play to you OP for making the decision to go to the doctor and hence still go ahead with the flight. But I really think for the long run, after this trip, look into getting over the fear by doing a course, or seeing psychologist, because at the end of the day, it actually is an irrational fear and its all in your own head (im sure you know).

Do you ever see people break down and nearly cry from seeing spiders? Theres no difference

[-0-]

Here's a list of all known Air France accidents since the dawn of time... excluding the most recent one a few days ago.

Air France 31 Oct 1933 Etobon, France Farman F-301
Air France 15 Jan 1934 Corbigny, France Dewoitine D-332
Air France 20 Jan 1934 Carombe, France Breguet 280T
Air France 26 Feb 1934 Rio de Oro, Morocco Latécoère 28
Air France 09 May 1934 English Channel Wibault 282T-12
Air France 31 May 1934 Croydon, England Liore-et-Olivier 213
Air France 05 Aug 1934 Bahia, Brazil Latecoere 26
Air France 01 Apr 1935 Beauvais, France Farman F-300
Air France 02 Nov 1935 Off Nhambupe, Brazil Latécoère 28-1
Air France 11 Nov 1935 Istres, France Latecoere 28
Air France 21 Jan 1936 Off Ajaccio, Corsica, France CAMS 53
Air France 02 Aug 1936 Mazamet, France Wibault 280
Air France 07 Dec 1936 Off Dakar, French West Africa Latécoère 300
Air France 08 Dec 1937 Saint Sauveur, France Potez 621
Air France 24 Dec 1937 Kasperske Hory, Czechoslovakia Wibault 283-T12
Air France 09 Feb 1938 Marseille, France Lioré-et-Olivier H-242
Air France 07 Mar 1938 Datia, India Potez 621
Air France 23 Mar 1938 Corsavy, France Dewoitine D-338
Air France 03 Apr 1939 Near Marrakech, Morocco Caudron C.635 Simoun
Air France 02 May 1939 Near Marrakech, Morocco Dewoitine D-338
Air France 20 Jun 1940 Near Ouistreham, France Dewoitine D-338
Air France 07 Jul 1940 Gulf of Tonkin Dewoitine D-338
Air France 27 Nov 1940 Mediterranean Sea Farman F-224
Air France 01 Sep 1941 Bollemont, France Bloch 220
Air France 13 Aug 1942 Algiers, Algeria Liore et Olivier H-246 Air Boat
Air France 27 Sep 1942 Ameur el Ain, Algeria Dewoitine D-342
Air France 25 Dec 1945 Bangui, French Equatorial Africa Lockheed 18 Lodestar
Air France 29 Jun 1946 Pau, France Junkers Ju-52/3m
Air France 03 Sep 1946 Holtug, Denmark Douglas DC-3 (C-53D-DO)
Air France 04 Sep 1946 Le Bourget, France Douglas DC-3
Air France 01 Feb 1947 Near Lisbon, Portugal Douglas DC-3C
Air France 14 Mar 1947 Mt. Moucherolles, France Douglas DC-3 (C-47A-90-DL)
Air France 04 Jun 1947 Near Gemenos, France Junkers Ju-52
Air France 01 Jul 1947 Near Eaeka, French Cameroons Junkers JU-52/3m
Air France 06 Jan 1948 Paris, France Douglas DC-3D
Air France 01 Aug 1948 1,200 miles off Dakar, Atlantic Ocean Latecoere 631 (flying boat)
Air France 28 Oct 1949 San Miguel Island, Azores Lockheed 749-79-33 Constellation
Air France 28 Nov 1949 Chaleyssin, France Douglas DC-4
Air France 12 Jun 1950 Off Bahrain Douglas DC-4-1009
Air France 14 Jun 1950 Off Bahrain Douglas DC-4-1009
Air France 03 Feb 1951 Near Mt. Cameroun, Buea, Nigeria Douglas DC-4
Air France 11 Aug 1951 Moisville, France Douglas DC-3D
Air France 02 Jan 1952 Andapa, Madagascar Junkers JU-52/3m
Air France 03 Mar 1952 Nice, France SNCASE Languedoc
Air France 10 Apr 1953 Miandivazo, Madagascar Junkers JU-5/-3m
Air France 03 Aug 1953 Off Fethiye Point, Turkey Lockheed L- 749A Constellation
Air France 01 Sep 1953 Near Barcelonnette, France Lockheed 749A Constellation
Air France 28 Jan 1956 Lyon, France Douglas C-47
Air France 12 Dec 1956 Dannemois, France Vickers 708 Viscount
Air France 29 Jan 1957 Paris, France SNCASE SE.2010 Armagnac
Air France 08 Apr 1957 Algiers, Algeria Douglas DC-3
Air France 20 Apr 1957 Jirkouk, Iraq Lockheed Super Constellation
Air France 31 May 1958 SW of Algiers, Algeria Douglas DC-3
Air France 29 Aug 1960 Off Dakar, Senegal Lockheed 1049G Super Constellation
Air France 10 May 1961 Stah, Algeria Lockheed 1649A Starliner
Air France 12 Sep 1961 Near Rabat, Morrocco Sud-Aviation Caravelle III
Air France 03 Jun 1962 Villeneuve-le-Roi, Val-de-Marne, France Boeing B-707-328
Air France 22 Jun 1962 Basse-Terre, Guadaloupe, West Indies Boeing B-707-328
Air France 30 Jul 1962 Coulommiers, France Douglas DC-3
Air France 06 Mar 1968 Basse-Terre, Guadeloupe, West Indies Boeing B-707-328C
Air France 11 Sep 1968 Off Cap d'Antibes, France Sud-Aviation Caravelle 3
Air France 03 Dec 1969 Off Caracas, Venezuela Boeing B-707-328B
Air France 27 Jun 1976 Entebbe, Uganda Airbus A300
Air France 28 Aug 1976 Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam Sud Aviation SE 210 Caravelle III
Air France 26 Jun 1988 Habsheim, France Airbus A320-111
Air France 26 Dec 1994 Algiers Airport, Algeria Airbus A300B2-1C
Air France 20 Apr 1998 Near Bogota, Colombia Boeing B-727-230
Air France 25 Jul 2000 Gonesse, France Aerospatiale BAe Concorde 101
Air France 02 Aug 2005 Toronto, Canada Airbus A-340

The first thing that you think is... holy crap Batman... that's a metric feckton of crashes.. however most of these were in the 30s, 40s and 50s. Since I was born in 1983, Air France have had 6 crashes. Do you know how many flights they have had since 1983? Millions and millions and millions. The most recent crash was pilot error - they slowed the plane down too much when they encountered turbulence, which led to the engines stalling and multiple system failure. This has not been released to the public yet, but it will be once they examine the black box recorder.

Lots of airlines had crashes in the early days.. so just look at the record from the 80s onwards. While they are not the safest airline in the world, they are pretty damn good.

The five crashes since 1983 were caused by the following (not including the most recent):

Air France 26 Jun 1988 Habsheim, France Airbus A320-111
136 on board, 3 fatalities. Pilot error during a fly by.

Air France 26 Dec 1994 Algiers Airport, Algeria Airbus A300B2-1C
239 on board, 3 passenger fatalities. Aircraft was hijacked by terrorists. Fatalities were caused by police storming the plane.

Air France 20 Apr 1998 Near Bogota, Colombia Boeing B-727-230
53 on board, 53 fatalities. Pilot error during dense fog. Crashed 3 minutes after take off. The crew did not turn in the proper direction after reaching the Romeo non-directional beacon even though the flight crew acknowledged an air traffic controller's warning that they were off course.

Air France 25 Jul 2000 Gonesse, France Aerospatiale BAe Concorde 101
109 on board, 109 fatalities. Engine failure during take off. Mechanical fault.

Air France 02 Aug 2005 Toronto, Canada Airbus A-340
309 on board. 0 fatalities. The plane over ran a runway during a very bad thunderstorm. All passengers survived.

So basically, what I am saying is since 1983, one crash was a mechanical fault. The others were either pilot error or terrorists. In 50% of the crashes since 1983, all passengers died.

Remember, pilots are put into a simulation every year, in which they encounter the worst case scenario - storms, bird strike, mechanical failure... and if they fail to land safely - even once, they lose their license.

Don't worry about flying. You will be fine.

wylo

FFS, honestly are you trolling or something, why would you post all that to someone who is about to travel with Air France??
First copying and pasting a list of all their crashes, then details of how their newer crashes occured, and then your own speculation on what happened the latest crash and stating is as fact when you dont have a bulls notion what happened.
Looks to me like your using this thread as a means to show off your little aircrash hobby and knowledge (or lack of) you have on the side. Stick to watching Aircrash Investigation.

[-0-]

wylo wrote: »

FFS, honestly are you trolling or something, why would you post all that to someone who is about to travel with Air France??
First copying and pasting a list of all their crashes, then details of how their newer crashes occured, and then your own speculation on what happened the latest crash and stating is as fact when you dont have a bulls notion what happened.
Looks to me like your using this thread as a means to show off your little aircrash hobby and knowledge (or lack of) you have on the side. Stick to watching Aircrash Investigation.

If you have an issue with my post then report it.

I have a fear of flying, and I always look up the statistics when I'm about to fly as it eases my fear, which was my intention with that post. I feel it's best to look at the actual stats than to ignore them and just hope for the best.

For the record, I've never watched Aircrash Investigation.

If I'm using this thread to show off anything, then you're using it to vent your anger issues. Either be helpful to the OP when you post in here, or don't post at all.

TaxiManMartin

I hate flying too. And i have to fly a lot.
Im afraid to take drugs because i think if it crashes i want to have my wits about me if i need to escape the fire or swim or something.

Then when at my destination im scared about the flight back the whole time.
So i just sit on the flights, sh!tting myself the whole way.
I hate it.

TaxiManMartin

wylo wrote: »

FFS, honestly are you trolling or something, why would you post all that to someone who is about to travel with Air France??
First copying and pasting a list of all their crashes, then details of how their newer crashes occured, and then your own speculation on what happened the latest crash and stating is as fact when you dont have a bulls notion what happened.
Looks to me like your using this thread as a means to show off your little aircrash hobby and knowledge (or lack of) you have on the side. Stick to watching Aircrash Investigation.

You should get over yourself.
I dont see a problem with his post.
Its only info thats available on the web. And its not like he is lying.

wylo

[-0-] wrote: »

If you have an issue with my post then report it.

I have a fear of flying, and I always look up the statistics when I'm about to fly as it eases my fear, which was my intention with that post. I feel it's best to look at the actual stats than to ignore them and just hope for the best.

For the record, I've never watched Aircrash Investigation.

If I'm using this thread to show off anything, then you're using it to vent your anger issues. Either be helpful to the OP when you post in here, or don't post at all.

I would never report anyones posts tbh

I have written to be helpful in my post just before that, im just fed up of the lack of understanding of a true fear of flying, Im not going to repeat myself, so you can just read my previous post.

wylo

TaxiManMartin wrote: »

You should get over yourself.
I dont see a problem with his post.
Its only info thats available on the web. And its not like he is lying.

no one knows what happened that Air france crash yet, and itd be nice if someone posted acknowledging that they were only speculating, instead of stating it as if they know for sure. Theres enough of that on pprune , after hours, and the aviation forum on boards.