Paul Williams TV3 'documentary' on Rossport...

dianababyddori

just seen the shell documentary on rte today.
Just think its awful with what the gardi were doing to the locals.

whats your views on it??

favour of shell or the locals???

slippy wicket

dianababyddori wrote: »

just seen the shell documentary on rte today.
Just think its awful with what the gardi were doing to the locals.

whats your views on it??

favour of shell or the locals???

What about what the 'locals' were doing to the guards.
Totally in favor of shell, and the sooner the rabid element move on the next 'issue' the better.

F-Stop

The locals... who want jobs... not the professional protesters.

The Blonde One

I'm watching the Shell documentary on TV3 and can't see how the protestors are being treated differently from any other publicity mad anarchists.
Was the RTE documentary different?

irishbran77

I think I've just seen one of the worst documentaries ever on Irish television! The depth Williams went to to demonise all elements of the camapaign against Shell in Mayo is astounding! I only hope no-one in Ireland is stupid enough to take this trash tv seriously.

slippy wicket

irishbran77 wrote: »

I think I've just seen one of the worst documentaries ever on Irish television! The depth Williams went to to demonise all elements of the camapaign against Shell in Mayo is astounding! I only hope no-one in Ireland is stupid enough to take this trash tv seriously.

O come on, those 'locals' are a disgrace, you would think that money coming into such a remote area would be a good thing, but no, Ned Ludd is alive and well out in the hind teat of Ireland.

irishbran77

Yep, exactly... these people are spurned on only by a dislike for the real locals having money. Makes sense! Anyway, for people who don't think Paul Williams is a brilliant researcher and author... has anyone seen such a disgraceful 'documentary' on Irish telly?

starn

While the documentry had a very definite bias. Williams didnt put words into Willie Corduff or Maura Harringtons mouths. They were able to hang themselfs. They came across as navieve, simplistic and ill informed, and why hasnt anyone from S2S run in ANY of the local elections. If they have as much suppoert in Mayo as they claim

mal1

I do take it seriously. If this attitude becomes widespread in rural communities then Ireland has a serious problem moving towards becoming self-sufficient in the future.

How many gas generators do they think are located in the Dublin urban region? Head down to Ringsend and ask the locals living near Poolbeg and Dublin Bay. These are the units that are presently supplying the east and west coast of Ireland. They should count themselves lucky that they live so far from the pipeline

Dumb

More on topic over Here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60508512&posted=1#post60508512

irishbran77

I don't think you understand the amount of cherry picking a documentary can do if given enough time. It reminds me of the interview of Homer Simpson when he was accused of sexual harassment...

I do agree the whole lack of a local madate is troubling. I don't care how good or right the campaign is, I'd need to see a democratic consent of those to be directly impacted in order to support such a movement.

mal1

I'm talking more about the issue and less about the documentary. These locals are holding the whole country to ransom.

irishbran77

But what Williams complains as regards the 'democratic mandate' lacking int he protests... can you prove the locals are for or against it? That's my point. What makes you think these people are 'holding to ransom' Mayo!?! And I dn't accept as evidence 'a friend of a friend who was born in Ballina' as proof!

starn

irishbran77 wrote: »

I don't think you understand the amount of cherry picking a documentary can do if given enough time. It reminds me of the interview of Homer Simpson when he was accused of sexual harassment...

I do agree the whole lack of a local madate is troubling. I don't care how good or right the campaign is, I'd need to see a democratic consent of those to be directly impacted in order to support such a movement.

I think we all know the amount of cherry picking that can be done. But how do you think he should of framed the footage of Maura Harringtons ranting and raining to the cops. Or that other unemployed ejgit from Dublin that runs the campain. These people hung themselfs

mal1

I'm talking about the minority 'tree hugging' locals.

Well, they are definitely trying to hold the country to ransom by illegally attempting to hinder the progress of this project. The gas field can potentially supply 60% of the gas needs of the country, not just the Mayo region.

irishbran77

What does his employment record have to do with it? I would expect that sort of thing off a PD supporter, or a tendy libertarian college student! The woman came across as annoying at best but with possibly thousands of videos coming out from Mayo, including some showing the Gaurds doing afr worse to protesters, I think we should understand the context of the whole situation...

Having said that, I do think yelling into a gaurds face should be considered verbal abuse and be an arrestable offence. I won't excuse that sort of behaviour.

starn

irishbran77 wrote: »

But what Williams complains as regards the 'democratic mandate' lacking int he protests... can you prove the locals are for or against it? That's my point. What makes you think these people are 'holding to ransom' Mayo!?! And I dn't accept as evidence 'a friend of a friend who was born in Ballina' as proof!

Can YOU PROVE that they are all against it, I wount accept some bloke from South Dublins claim that all of Mayo and the country is against it. Why havent they run in any local elections if they have so much support

irishbran77

I don't think you understand... I'm not the one making the accusation that these people are holding up Mayo to ransom... if that's an opinion you hold, shouldn't you be able to explain even slightly why you think it!?!

mal1

My opinions are not based or formed on this documentary but more on personal experience from living in a rural community, work and the varied news articles I've read. I think you believe that most people are not enlightened about the subject and that their opinions were formed over the last hour or so. It's a national issue.

Just to let you know Bran that most people's opinions on this issue were formed before tonight. It's old news at this stage

starn

irishbran77 wrote: »

What does his employment record have to do with it? I

Well it means he has no work or finacial obligations stoping him from runnng in any local elections. Given all the public backing he claims he has he should be a shoe in.

The woman came across as annoying at best ......Having said that, I do think yelling into a gaurds face should be considered verbal abuse and be an arrestable offence. I won't excuse that sort of behaviour.

That Women is Maura Harrington. Who is the figure head of the S2S campain and who at best came across as delusional and illinformed. She also believes herself to be above the law

Joe C

mal1 wrote: »

I'm talking more about the issue and less about the documentary. These locals are holding the whole country to ransom.

How are they holding the country to ransom ?

To be honest it looks like they're trying to stop the country from being pilfered by an energy company.

Souljacker

Joe C wrote: »

How are they holding the country to ransom ?

To be honest it looks like they're trying to stop the country from being pilfered by an energy company.

Damn energy companies coming here with their jobs & investment.

Simple solution let all the people in Co Mayo have a secret vote as to whether the shell project should go ahead or not. That way for once and for all we'd see who indeed speaks for the locals.

irishbran77

Originally Posted by irishbran77
What does his employment record have to do with it? I
"Well it means he has no work or finacial obligations stoping him from runnng in any local elections. Given all the public backing he claims he has he should be a shoe in."

Oh, so I thought you were taking a swipe at people on the dole as some middle class PD/ American libertarian love to do as a sport on boards.ie.

mal1

Joe C wrote: »

How are they holding the country to ransom ?

To be honest it looks like they're trying to stop the country from being pilfered by an energy company.

I don't know if you have noticed but there isn't that many companies with the ability to tap into gas fields in the atlantic ocean. The Irish government definitely can't do it alone and i doubt they gave it to the first gangster that who offered.

starn

No Im not. I would like to know why he hasnt run for election or taped someone to run. He is willing to die over the pipe line but not run for a position where he could actually effect some change. The guy is a delusional busey body who clearly knows he has none of the support he claism to have

Shiny

F-Stop wrote: »

The locals... who want jobs... not the professional protesters.

Who pays them?

Dole?

Joe C

mal1 wrote: »

I don't know if you have noticed but there isn't that many companies with the ability to tap into gas fields in the atlantic ocean. The Irish government definitely can't do it alone and i doubt they gave it to the first gangster that who offered.

We could have asked fos something in return for all the gas we've given them

brennan1979

Souljacker wrote: »

Damn energy companies coming here with their jobs & investment.

A remarkable comment. Shell is a company that has used rape, torture and murder against opponents of it's developments in Nigeria. In Ireland the Rossport 5 spent almost 100 days in jail for opposing its developmets in Mayo. Campare that to the treatment of Seanie Fitzpatrick, Bertie Ahern or any corrupt politician politician or banker you could care to mention. The use of right wing paramilitary thugs by Shell as private security is a worrying sign and the threats and assaults against the local community are happening without any hindrance by the Gardaí.

Ireland concluded the most generous deal of any country in the world to an outside company to drill for oil. They can basically decide how much tax they want to pay and write off some of that against operations in other countries. The deal was concluded by Ray Burke in the 80's and the nature of the deal leaves us with only two alternatives; it was either the most incompetent deal ever concluded by an Irish government or the most corrupt deal ever concluded by an Irish government.

The media has been almost universially hostile to the campaigners and has published and broadcast every smear and half truth concocted by Shell's PR people.

The resourses of Ireland belong to the people of Ireland and the potential value of the Corrib Gas field is possibly worth up to 100 billion euros. If this resource was exploited by a state run company the benefits would go to the exchequer instead of to the share holders of Shell.

That's before the environmental and health and safety aspects are even touched upon.

PCPhoto

starn wrote: »

Can YOU PROVE that they are all against it, I wount accept some bloke from South Dublins claim that all of Mayo and the country is against it. Why havent they run in any local elections if they have so much support

no doubt I will be tracked down by the S2S people (Indymedia) and given out to for voicing my opinion......

IMO the reason why they dont run in the local elections is that their support is from the usual "rent a crowd" that turn up to pretty much every protest - who simply just want to "go against the maaaan" and try to make society a better place.
Its quite often that these "rent a crowd" supporters are known to Gardai and thats why they usually carry video cameras and use the standard techniques - ie. getting the the face of gardai in an effort to make the gardai make a wrong move, these people usually incite violence with their protests.

It wouldnt surprise me if they were infact behind the whole thing - encouraging the locals to protest and fortunately for them they found a couple of locals that are narrow minded enough to believe their "facts and figures" ..... you'll rarely see these "rent a crowd" people arrested for anything serious - they are nearly all lay litigants and are more versed in their relevant sections of the law than some gardai - and they quite happily quote to gardai or correct gardai when they believe they are in the right..


ok time to stop - rant over.....anyway - I missed the documentary but have been in contact with the Rossport 5, Maura Harrington, The Shannon 5 (I think there was 5)...anyway - same crowd of supporters.

Robbo

brennan1979 wrote: »

In Ireland the Rossport 5 spent almost 100 days in jail for opposing its developmets in Mayo. Campare that to the treatment of Seanie Fitzpatrick, Bertie Ahern or any corrupt politician politician or banker you could care to mention.

The Rossport 5 were imprisoned for contempt of court, just like Liam Lawlor whom I believe fits the bill of a "corrupt politician".

brennan1979

Robbo wrote: »

The Rossport 5 were imprisoned for contempt of court, just like Liam Lawlor whom I believe fits the bill of a "corrupt politician".

Are you really comparing the Rossport 5 to Laim Lawlor?

Robbo

brennan1979 wrote: »

Are you really comparing the Rossport 5 to Laim Lawlor?

You did ask people to, in fairness. And you left it quite open as to who we could mention.

brennan1979

I asked people to compare the treatment. We have had some jailings such as Liam Lawlor and Ray Burke. Lawlor spent six weeks in jail, less than half the time the Rossport 5 spent in jail.

I'm amazed at the animosity towards the S2S campaigners by some posters on internet forums. Whatever your political or economic views this resource belongs to everyone. It is your, and your childrens' and your grandchildrens', inheritence.

Robbo

brennan1979 wrote: »

I asked people to compare the treatment. We have had some jailings such as Liam Lawlor and Ray Burke. Lawlor spent six weeks in jail, less than half the time the Rossport 5 spent in jail.

In fairness to the Rossport 5, they had ample opportunities to expunge their contempt. They chose not to.

brennan1979

Why would they? They were in the right.

starn

brennan1979 wrote: »

Why would they? They were in the right.

In your opinion

mango23

Ireland is being ripped off by Shell, we should be chanrging them between 60-70% tax on their profits.

Birdnuts

Paul Williams is a second rate hack who acts as an extension of the Garda PR department. This documentary was thrown together by Williams and his buddies to distract the public from the Corrib gas giveaway and the fact that we now know from a certain Mr Dwyers escapades in Bolivia that the gardai have been working closely in Rossport with East European fascist paramilitaries hired by Shell in Mayo through a shady entity called IRMS(who incidently also provide security for FF). Some of whom then travelled to South America in a plot to undermine a democratically elected government who have nationlized the countries oil and gas resources for the benefit of the poor majority. We also know that the same government rubbed Shells greedy snout in it by commandeering a gas pipeline they were operating which suggests Shell, IRMS and the Irish government have some serious questions to answer about what exactly is going on in Mayo!!

mango23

Birdnuts wrote: »

Paul Williams is a second rate hack who acts as an extension of the Garda PR department. This documentary was thrown together by Williams and his buddies to distract the public from the Corrib gas giveaway and the fact that we now know from a certain Mr Dwyers escapades in Bolivia that the gardai have been working closely in Rossport with East European fascist paramilitaries hired by Shell in Mayo through a shady entity called IRMS(who incidently also provide security for FF). Some of whom then travelled to South America in a plot to undermine a democratically elected government who have nationlized the countries oil and gas resources for the benefit of the poor majority. We also know that the same government rubbed Shells greedy snout in it by commandeering a gas pipeline they were operating which suggests Shell, IRMS and the Irish government have some serious questions to answer about what exactly is going on in Mayo!!

Totally blew my mind away!

soeak brother!

mango23

Speak I mean.

PrivateEye

Is is true Paul Williams is the son of a Garda? Just something I've seen around the net and can't find any verification on. I can't find anything to the contrary either.

It was typical Paul Williams stuff and basically summed by why his paychecks come from the Sunday World. Between Amanda Brunker and her friends and Sinn Fein being behind rain, bad traffic and everything in between, the show was exactly the kind of output I expected.

I reckon a Goldman Prize is worth twenty times what a documentary by a man like Williams is in terms of credibility....

oscarBravo

Birdnuts wrote: »

...the fact that we now know from a certain Mr Dwyers escapades in Bolivia that the gardai have been working closely in Rossport with East European fascist paramilitaries hired by Shell in Mayo through a shady entity called IRMS(who incidently also provide security for FF).

Seriously - take it to Conspiracy Theories, or drop it. Not a request.

oscarBravo

I watched the documentary last night. Sure, it could come across as biased, but a straw poll of both Mayo people in general, and Erris people in particular, will tell you that the vast, vast majority are in favour of this project going ahead.

Between the "full-time eco-warrior" yelling in the face of a Garda (whom I know personally, and admire for his restraint - that's technically assault); the charming gentleman who announced that the problem was that the IRA hadn't killed enough Brits; Will Corduff "beaten within an inch of his life", yet looking surprisingly fit and well in his hospital bed, and refusing to bring assault charges - I think people can draw their own conclusions.

Willie Corduff's father led the local protests against rural electrification. I wonder if Willie has d'electric in his house today?

grumpytrousers

oscarBravo wrote: »

Seriously - take it to Conspiracy Theories, or drop it. Not a request.

In fairness, there's a been a few interesting articles about this in the Phoenix the last few weeks. There's definitely some shady characters hanging about down there. I'm not saying who's right - but dismissing the point made with a 'take it to Conspiracy Theories' is a bit OTT, I think.

*edit* i'm not trying to question a mod for the hell of it - I'd consider the Phoenix to be relatively mainstream media, and that the original point to be okay in a Politics forum.

Erin Go Brath

brennan1979 wrote: »

A remarkable comment. Shell is a company that has used rape, torture and murder against opponents of it's developments in Nigeria. In Ireland the Rossport 5 spent almost 100 days in jail for opposing its developmets in Mayo. Campare that to the treatment of Seanie Fitzpatrick, Bertie Ahern or any corrupt politician politician or banker you could care to mention. The use of right wing paramilitary thugs by Shell as private security is a worrying sign and the threats and assaults against the local community are happening without any hindrance by the Gardaí.

Ireland concluded the most generous deal of any country in the world to an outside company to drill for oil. They can basically decide how much tax they want to pay and write off some of that against operations in other countries. The deal was concluded by Ray Burke in the 80's and the nature of the deal leaves us with only two alternatives; it was either the most incompetent deal ever concluded by an Irish government or the most corrupt deal ever concluded by an Irish government.

The media has been almost universially hostile to the campaigners and has published and broadcast every smear and half truth concocted by Shell's PR people.

The resourses of Ireland belong to the people of Ireland and the potential value of the Corrib Gas field is possibly worth up to 100 billion euros. If this resource was exploited by a state run company the benefits would go to the exchequer instead of to the share holders of Shell.

That's before the environmental and health and safety aspects are even touched upon.

Exactly! Part of the Irish Proclamation states:
"We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. "

This goes completely against Ray Burkes giveaway of an imporant national resourse whose benefits should be to the people of the Irish nation and not a a foreign company.

I fully support the good people of S2S. While I didn't see the docu, when I heard Paul Williams was doing it I knew straight away it would be a hatchet job on the protesters and would weigh in behind the Govt as usual. A Govt which clearly doesn't have the interests of the ordinary Irish people at heart if they were so short sighted or corrupt to give away our resources.

Fear na gCrub

Whatever you opinion on Rossport, surely we all deserve better than Garda Paul Williams.

djpbarry

Moved from Green Issues. Not sure if Politics is the best place for it - mods, do as you will.

P. Breathnach

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Exactly! Part of the Irish Proclamation states:
"We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. "

The "Irish Proclamation" is not a constitutional document.

oscarBravo

Green Issues thread merged.

Liam Byrne

Surely any contract that has the signature of Mr Ray Burke and benefits the company involved more than this country and its people should be null and void after his corruption ?

Erin Go Brath

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The "Irish Proclamation" is not a constitutional document.

The Proclamation of Independence is one of if not the most important historical document in modern Irish history. All parties FF, FG, Labour, SF etc agree that this is the case. To flagrantly go against it and for someone in power to put their interests ahead of the good of the nation is an act of treason against the people of Ireland.
Our politicans have a moral duty to uphold the principles outlined in this document, even if they don't have a legal one.