Tell us the top 10 things you'd....

TheInquisitor

Tell us the top 10 things you'd bring into Ireland if you were elected and had complete reign to do anything.(Your manifesto so to speak) I'll start off

1) Build a Nuclear power plant
2) Legalise Abortion
3) Legalise all drugs( the war has been well and truely lost)
4) Increase speed limits on motorways to 140.
5) Double jail time for all criminals
6) Make reuniting ireland a priority
7) Cut the minimum wage to E6
8) Cut VAT to 15%
9) Cut civil service pay to bring it in line with their private sector counterparts. Put a monetary value on job certainty
10) Enforce the laws on white collar crime with proper jail time

Controversial?

Holsten

You'd get my vote.

Mine would be some what similar, way harsher punshments for crime.

I'd bring back both corporal and capital punishment though.

TheInquisitor

Holsten wrote: »

You'd get my vote.

Mine would be some what similar, way harsher punshments for crime.

I'd bring back both corporal and capital punishment though.

Yes definitely. The world has become a much more dangerous place when criminals suddenly were given rights and all this crap! Murderers, rapists, child abusers, drug dealers deserve no rights. Hangman's noose for them all

mike65

Treat white collar crime seriously.
Remove religious ethos from all publicly funded bodies
Treat the internet as a utility not a techy toy.
All indivduals who wish to run for public office to undergo series of "ethics challanges" and to be subject to full financial disclosure.
QuANGO review, with abolition of those not earning their keep.
All public sector contracts above 1 million euro to be subject to independent scrutiny.
No child to be left unaccounted for by schools or parents.
Legalise abortion up to 12 weeks.
Motherhood and Apple Pie to be promoted!

TheInquisitor

mike65 wrote: »

Treat white collar crime seriously.
Remove religious ethos from all publicly funded bodies Agreed
Treat the internet as a utility not a techy toy. Agreed
All indivduals who wish to run for public office to undergo series of "ethics challanges" and to be subject to full financial disclosure. Agreed
QuANGO review, with abolition of those not earning their keep. Agreed
All public sector contracts above 1 million euro to be subject to independent scrutiny.
No child to be left unaccounted for by schools or parents. Agreed
Legalise abortion up to 12 weeks. Agreed
Motherhood and Apple Pie to be promoted! Unreserveredly disgaree

I don't think what this country needs is more bureaurocracy.

mike65

So you'd sooner billions blown on cost overuns or money spent on needless/pointless schemes?

TheInquisitor

mike65 wrote: »

So you'd sooner billions blown on cost overuns or money spent on needless/pointless schemes?

I would say try to change the civil service so that they do this themselves. We have enough needless commissions as it is

mike65

The civil service won't end Pork Barrel spending, its not in their interest really.

RayM

1. Split Eircom into two separate companies - infrastructure and retail - renationalising the former in the interests of guaranteeing top-class telecommunications infrastructure which doesn't depend on the whims of whichever private equity cretins are currently seeking to rape it for all it's worth.
2. Set up a task force for the purpose of building new schools and community facilities, and for making the whole country look more aesthetically pleasing, thus making it more attractive to tourists and generally a better place to live in. Kind of like a big massive tidy-towns committee, except professionally-run and creating thousands of jobs for currently unemployed skilled workers.
3. Legalise abortion.
4. Introduce generous incentives for bio-fuel, electric or hybrid powered cars, and ban the sale of all new cars incapable of achieving at least 75mpg.
5. Create a free National Health Service, funded via taxation, thus removing the need for private health insurance.
6. Compulsory annual medical check-up for all citizens. Failure to attend results in loss of entitlement to free NHS care.
7. Invest heavily in an integrated and fully policed safe, accessible public transport system, funded by increased road tax on private cars...
8. ...Abolish the current motor tax disc format, replacing it with a simple pay-as-you-go system (as easy as buying phone credit), aimed towards generating more revenue from heavier users, whilst not punishing those who just use the car a couple of times a week to go shopping, etc.
9. Nationalise all banks, for the purpose of benefiting society as a whole, rather than the rich.
10. Cut off all loopholes, tax avoidance schemes and tax-reliefs for the rich.

SeanW

OP:

Sign me up for most of that except 2: and 6: - in the latter case I really don't think we need to start that again - we had a Constitutional claim on the 6 Counties prior to the Good Friday Agreement and it was necessary to remove this, because it gave the Unionists a siege mentality.
The peace now being enjoyed in the North wasn't brought about solely by changes from London and the Unionists, Dublin and the Nationalist community had to swallow some changes as well.
In time perhaps the wounds up North will heal and the people themselves will be able to take the question themselves (which is provided for in the GFA) which I think is the right way to go.

As for my manifesto, here's what I would do:

1. Change the constitution so that Ireland's legal system abolishes Common Law in favour of Civil Code Law. In Common Law jurisdictions, like Ireland and the U.S. (where the legal system descends from the U.K.) law, particularly in court cases, is made as much or more based on judicial precedent as based on the civil statute books - or truth and justice. As we know, serious issues are often decided there (such as Roe v. Wade legalising abortion in the U.S. gay marriage rulings and so on) and if you've ever watched some of those U.S. shows that have courtroom scenes like Law and Order, you will frequently see cases descending into judicial quoting matches beween high end lawyers. Sounds like justice can easily get lost in this type of system and it does.
   It seems to me that we would be better off with Continental style Civil Law system whereby the law of the land is made only by the legislature and the nation's constitution.
2. Fire any judge who routinely breaks "sentencing guidelines" for criminals and immediately fire any judge who does not impose a custodial sentence for: ganglang crime, vandalism, assualt.
3. Treat white collar crime seriously: I would go after the developers who brined SDCC councillors in the 1980s and early 1990s, and I would similarly go after those today who guaranteed the same property as collateral to 5 or 6 different banks.
4. Legalise, tax and subject to regulation, the sale of Cannibis.
5. Ditto for prostitution, combined with very strong anti people trafficking legislation (which we need anyway).
6. Build a system of small nuclear power plants to compliment a renewable energy strategy.
7. Reform the Public Services: in many cases not only do our government services not work, but we pay more than we should for them. Often the cause public service unions that routinely oppose new work practices, oppose any type of outside contracting for any reason - even if the service is non functional - and demand pay raises for nothing. (Benchmarking?).
   I would go through the Public Service - particularly the back offices - with a chainsaw Mad Maggie style. Make redundant anyone who isn't needed (with a decent redundancy package) and impose changes in working practices as needed to streamline the services. Fire anyone who does not cooperate. Continue "benchmarking" pay to that of the private sector now that it is collapsing. Fine their unions for any attempt to interfere.
8. Raise the speed limit on motorways to 140kph and add 10kph to the 60k and 80k bands, to 70 and 90 respectively.
9. Cut dole and miniumum wage BUT ONLY as part of an overall package of counter-inflationary and/or pro-deflationary measures including reduction in VAT, actions to further depress property and rental prices, better public transport with a higher subvention, etc. I oppose simply hitting the weakest in society and making them bear the brunt. Bringing our costs into line with international norms requires a holistic approach.
10. Begin rolling out a system of dual water supplies - whereby each household is supplied with one pipe containing drinking quality water and another pipe with unprocessed water for feeding plants, washing cars and driveways, flushing toilets etc. Charge a nominal fee for drikning water, but keep the unprocessed water free as now.
    Water charges (generally speaking) should be off the table as we do not have a shortage of rain in this country.
    I'd also stop flouridating the water - it's expensive, it's illegal mass medication and it's health benefits are highly dubious.
11. Get rid of the incentive for criminals to "wash" red and green diesel by using a system whereby a farmer buys white diesel at full price and claims the tax back instead of buying dyed diesel - this only creates a washing business and dumping of extracted dye by criminal gangs is a serious environmental problem.

DrumSteve

SeanW wrote: »

OP:

Sign me up for most of that except 2: and 6: - in the latter case I really don't think we need to start that again - we had a Constitutional claim on the 6 Counties prior to the Good Friday Agreement and it was necessary to remove this, because it gave the Unionists a siege mentality.
The peace now being enjoyed in the North wasn't brought about solely by changes from London and the Unionists, Dublin and the Nationalist community had to swallow some changes as well.
In time perhaps the wounds up North will heal and the people themselves will be able to take the question themselves (which is provided for in the GFA) which I think is the right way to go.

As for my manifesto, here's what I would do:

1. Change the constitution so that Ireland's legal system abolishes Common Law in favour of Civil Code Law. In Common Law jurisdictions, like Ireland and the U.S. (where the legal system descends from the U.K.) law, particularly in court cases, is made as much or more based on judicial precedent as based on the civil statute books - or truth and justice. As we know, serious issues are often decided there (such as Roe v. Wade legalising abortion in the U.S. gay marriage rulings and so on) and if you've ever watched some of those U.S. shows that have courtroom scenes like Law and Order, you will frequently see cases descending into judicial quoting matches beween high end lawyers. Sounds like justice can easily get lost in this type of system and it does.
   It seems to me that we would be better off with Continental style Civil Law system whereby the law of the land is made only by the legislature and the nation's constitution.
2. Fire any judge who routinely breaks "sentencing guidelines" for criminals and immediately fire any judge who does not impose a custodial sentence for: ganglang crime, vandalism, assualt.
3. Treat white collar crime seriously: I would go after the developers who brined SDCC councillors in the 1980s and early 1990s, and I would similarly go after those today who guaranteed the same property as collateral to 5 or 6 different banks.
4. Legalise, tax and subject to regulation, the sale of Cannibis.
5. Ditto for prostitution, combined with very strong anti people trafficking legislation (which we need anyway).
6. Build a system of small nuclear power plants to compliment a renewable energy strategy.
7. Reform the Public Services: in many cases not only do our government services not work, but we pay more than we should for them. Often the cause public service unions that routinely oppose new work practices, oppose any type of outside contracting for any reason - even if the service is non functional - and demand pay raises for nothing. (Benchmarking?).
   I would go through the Public Service - particularly the back offices - with a chainsaw Mad Maggie style. Make redundant anyone who isn't needed (with a decent redundancy package) and impose changes in working practices as needed to streamline the services. Fire anyone who does not cooperate. Continue "benchmarking" pay to that of the private sector now that it is collapsing. Fine their unions for any attempt to interfere.
8. Raise the speed limit on motorways to 140kph and add 10kph to the 60k and 80k bands, to 70 and 90 respectively.
9. Cut dole and miniumum wage BUT ONLY as part of an overall package of counter-inflationary and/or pro-deflationary measures including reduction in VAT, actions to further depress property and rental prices, better public transport with a higher subvention, etc. I oppose simply hitting the weakest in society and making them bear the brunt. Bringing our costs into line with international norms requires a holistic approach.
10. Begin rolling out a system of dual water supplies - whereby each household is supplied with one pipe containing drinking quality water and another pipe with unprocessed water for feeding plants, washing cars and driveways, flushing toilets etc. Charge a nominal fee for drikning water, but keep the unprocessed water free as now.
    Water charges (generally speaking) should be off the table as we do not have a shortage of rain in this country.
    I'd also stop flouridating the water - it's expensive, it's illegal mass medication and it's health benefits are highly dubious.
11. Get rid of the incentive for criminals to "wash" red and green diesel by using a system whereby a farmer buys white diesel at full price and claims the tax back instead of buying dyed diesel - this only creates a washing business and dumping of extracted dye by criminal gangs is a serious environmental problem.

I agree with most of above apart from the highlighted bit.

JonathanAnon

1. Build big jail, complete segregation for serious offenders from mobile phones, drugs etc etc. Focus system on protecting people of Ireland rather than the rights of the serial offenders. Make Judges accountable for their judgements.
2. As said above, nationalise the banks so that profits go to the state. Run it like a private company, not like the rest of the inefficient public sector.
3. Reduce dole to 80 euro a week, comparable to UK, to prevent immigrants coming here to avail of benefits and encourage fit young men to work.
4. Re introduce capital punishment for long time serial offenders. My "Three strikes and we strike up the electric chair" policy.
5. Have an independent analysis of the public sector inefficiency and introduce necessary changes, regardless of the unions.
6. Mandatory sentences for fraud and other white collar crimes.
7. Make it illegal for anybody who has legal fees against owed to the state waived to run for office.
8. Ministers to be chosen from outside the TDs, independent experts would be nominated to the positions by the full Dáil, not just the government. Time to bring some expertise into the running of the country.
9. Disband all political parties, have every candidate run as independent.
10. Close the borders and kick out all asylum seekers.

ParkRunner

1. Build an underground metro line in Dublin
2. Legalise abortion up to 20 weeks.
3. Stop job seekers allowance for anyone who is not making a commendable effort to get a job. Also have a zero tolerance approach to social welfare fraud.
4. Build more jails but not to the standard of the Dóchas centre. Make criminals think twice before they go out and commit their crimes with proper punitive sentences.
5. Reform the HSE so that those who are in need of health care can get the treatment they need without losing their dignity! Also create effective drug treatment centres for those who spend their days injecting and popping pills.
6. Offer generous grants to renewable energy projects
7. Reduce stamp duty to make it more attractive to non-first time buyers to enter the property market.
8. Reform the civil service PMDS system to reward those who work hard and make it possible to sack those who aren't up to the job.
9. Make car clamping by private companies illegal
10. Conduct asylum interview at the ports and turn back immediately anyone who is unsuccessful once the time limit for bringing legal proceedings has passed

Souljacker

1. Fast track the production of wind farms and offer subsidies to green companies to encourage steps towards energy independence with a view to exporting in the future.

2. Bring in legislation on the rights of the child which offers real protection through law enforcement.

3. Legalise cannabis and tax the hell out of it (to a level similar to tobacco).

4. Introduce universal health insurance managed by the state where the practice of preventing suffers from chronic and serious conditions from protection is outlawed.

5. Put a halt on all repossessions on homes in banks which have only stayed afloat because of the tax payer. Allow people the breathing space to only pay the interest until the upturn comes.

6. Reintroduce fees to stop the chronic underfunding in our Unis. Use the greater influence in the banks to set up a system similar to the UK where student loans are set at a ridiculously low interest rate and only made payable back when the person is making over a set amount of money.

7. Retake all the schools from the Church and introduce a secular education system to prevent the indoctrination of children into a belief system before they are able to make an informed choice.

8. Introduce more minimum custodial sentences for crimes, for example say 20 years for rape.

9. Introduce citizenship classes in primary schools to teach our children (in an age appropriate way) about thing like voting, respect, and their rights and responsibilities.

10. Put the money (which up to this point has been used to pay fees in 3rd level education) into early years and primary education to ensure real equality of opportunity for everyone.

johnnyc

i like to add two thing to the list
1.) Get rid of tribunals
2.) i hate the way the hse issued reports, these reports cost a million or 2 for what...

KINGVictor

Just to add a few points...

1.Sort out the current shambolic asylum and immigration system...fast track as possible the ones on system and create a fair,concise,consistent system where people are granted asylum when sucessful and deport unsucessful applicants swiftly and also put measures in place that would enable productive immigrants to get their citizenship when they have fufilled the set criteria.

2.Completely overhaul the social welfare system ...so that Govt stops punishing the vulnerable and hardworking folks and reward terminally lazy,unproductive people.

3.Complete restructure of the public sector i.e civil service,Gardai,semi-state etc so that optimal output can be achieved.

4.Create a fair,equitable and Just Ireland where anyone irrespective of their sex,background,orientation,race,ethinicity,surname,religion would be entitiled to equal opportunities as this would lead to maximum productivity and allegiance etc.

5.Take an extremely tough stance on Crime...nothing complex just the basic...if you do the crime...you do the TIME( in its entirety).

6.Stop as a matter of government policy ,the lobbying of foreign governments to do to Irish citizens in their country the opposite of what I intend to foreigners in Ireland.

7.Start a Social re-engineering programme .Identify that we have a problem in Ireland - Crime and Peodophilia that has to be curtailed and perpetrators brought to Justice no matter their status or what association they belong to.


tbc

TheInquisitor

SeanW wrote: »

OP:

Sign me up for most of that except 2: and 6: - in the latter case I really don't think we need to start that again - we had a Constitutional claim on the 6 Counties prior to the Good Friday Agreement and it was necessary to remove this, because it gave the Unionists a siege mentality.
The peace now being enjoyed in the North wasn't brought about solely by changes from London and the Unionists, Dublin and the Nationalist community had to swallow some changes as well.
In time perhaps the wounds up North will heal and the people themselves will be able to take the question themselves (which is provided for in the GFA) which I think is the right way to go.

As for my manifesto, here's what I would do:

1. Change the constitution so that Ireland's legal system abolishes Common Law in favour of Civil Code Law. In Common Law jurisdictions, like Ireland and the U.S. (where the legal system descends from the U.K.) law, particularly in court cases, is made as much or more based on judicial precedent as based on the civil statute books - or truth and justice. As we know, serious issues are often decided there (such as Roe v. Wade legalising abortion in the U.S. gay marriage rulings and so on) and if you've ever watched some of those U.S. shows that have courtroom scenes like Law and Order, you will frequently see cases descending into judicial quoting matches beween high end lawyers. Sounds like justice can easily get lost in this type of system and it does.
   It seems to me that we would be better off with Continental style Civil Law system whereby the law of the land is made only by the legislature and the nation's constitution.
2. Fire any judge who routinely breaks "sentencing guidelines" for criminals and immediately fire any judge who does not impose a custodial sentence for: ganglang crime, vandalism, assualt.
3. Treat white collar crime seriously: I would go after the developers who brined SDCC councillors in the 1980s and early 1990s, and I would similarly go after those today who guaranteed the same property as collateral to 5 or 6 different banks.
4. Legalise, tax and subject to regulation, the sale of Cannibis.
5. Ditto for prostitution, combined with very strong anti people trafficking legislation (which we need anyway).
6. Build a system of small nuclear power plants to compliment a renewable energy strategy.
7. Reform the Public Services: in many cases not only do our government services not work, but we pay more than we should for them. Often the cause public service unions that routinely oppose new work practices, oppose any type of outside contracting for any reason - even if the service is non functional - and demand pay raises for nothing. (Benchmarking?).
   I would go through the Public Service - particularly the back offices - with a chainsaw Mad Maggie style. Make redundant anyone who isn't needed (with a decent redundancy package) and impose changes in working practices as needed to streamline the services. Fire anyone who does not cooperate. Continue "benchmarking" pay to that of the private sector now that it is collapsing. Fine their unions for any attempt to interfere.
8. Raise the speed limit on motorways to 140kph and add 10kph to the 60k and 80k bands, to 70 and 90 respectively.
9. Cut dole and miniumum wage BUT ONLY as part of an overall package of counter-inflationary and/or pro-deflationary measures including reduction in VAT, actions to further depress property and rental prices, better public transport with a higher subvention, etc. I oppose simply hitting the weakest in society and making them bear the brunt. Bringing our costs into line with international norms requires a holistic approach.
10. Begin rolling out a system of dual water supplies - whereby each household is supplied with one pipe containing drinking quality water and another pipe with unprocessed water for feeding plants, washing cars and driveways, flushing toilets etc. Charge a nominal fee for drikning water, but keep the unprocessed water free as now.
    Water charges (generally speaking) should be off the table as we do not have a shortage of rain in this country.
    I'd also stop flouridating the water - it's expensive, it's illegal mass medication and it's health benefits are highly dubious.
11. Get rid of the incentive for criminals to "wash" red and green diesel by using a system whereby a farmer buys white diesel at full price and claims the tax back instead of buying dyed diesel - this only creates a washing business and dumping of extracted dye by criminal gangs is a serious environmental problem.

I agree with most of your points execpt 11,

I thought 11 was a genius idea when i saw it first but when i think about it would it actually change anything because they could sell it onto criminals anyway and still claim back the vat? Also criminals could buy it themselves and claim back the vat, and that is what their doing atm, buying it themselves. Iwoul;d say tougher enforcement of laws might do better here. Harsher penalties if your caught with green diesel in your petrol tank etc

SeanW

Think about it for a second: my taxback scheme would only be available to registered farmers. i.e. you would have to be registered as such and you would have to be claiming CAP payments or otherwise leave a paper trail.
So not only would the scheme only be available to known farmers, but Revenue could quickly find abuse i.e. if you're buying 1000 litres a week for your 10 acre apple plantation. In short it would have to be auditable.

Also, the problem with dyed diesel is that the "washing" process creates a thick green (or red) sludge, which despite being toxic, is usually fly-tip dumped in the countryside.
Of course you can't have CCTV cameras everywhere.

So for that reason alone, we need to change the physical mechanism.

af_thefragile

Here comes the libertarian approach!

1. Increase privatization of government sectors like health, education, transport, agriculture.

2. Lower taxes. Probably as low as 20% and reduce it slowly over the years to under 10% coupled with increased privatization of health, education and most other services. Reducing total government spending. People get to keep more money they earn and businesses get the opportunity to develop the country.

3. Get rid of the dole. Instead set up a kind of a charity based fund for the homeless and poor. And set up credit union type easy small loan services to people who need loans.

4. Decentralize power from the center government into the local/county governments. Giving local TD's more power over their constituencies. This way the people will feel more connected and incontrol of their county council. People have the right to protest and rebel against their TD and anything they find unjust in their council. The council can then address the issue.

5. As with no. 4, the counties can decide their own laws on issues such as drugs, prostitution, abortion, gay marriages etc. The people of the counties can vote for or against these laws and enforce these laws according to the majority vote. Each county's decision is independent and not influenced by the other counties or the central government.
The counties also have their own local police force. Like in the USA. And there could be a central police force like the FBI, to deal with the serious matters that local police can't deal with.

6. Each counties have their own legal courts to solve their own problems. For big (inter-county) problems there will be the central legal court to deal with it.

7. Take hard action on businesses forming cartels. Set up audit firms to keep a check on business as to they're not committing any fraud.

8. Government has no involvement in the market. No helping out, subsidizing or bailing out any failing businesses. Formation of a total free market where anyone is free to set up whatever business they like within the confines of the law.

9. Stricter prison and criminal justice laws. Build a high security prison where serious criminals can get life imprisonment. Not sure bout the death penalty, but euthanasia could be kept as an option for the most serious of criminals.

10. Maintain a strict standard for environmental protection by businesses. Fine businesses who fail to meet the standards.



Basically the people have more rights and liberties.
The government is not a police state. Its there to help the people instead of to use the people for its own needs.
People are free to live their lives the way they want to. People are free to set up any kind of business without much of a hassle.
Low taxes would attract foreign businesses bringing in revenue and employment.
Privatization will solve all the problems we've got with the state owned services. It will result in a better quality and more efficient service.
People's freedom to set up their own businesses along with privatisation will bring new business and industry ideas to the country. Private businesses can invest in developing green energy, better and more efficient public transport, recreational facilities, etc. developing Ireland to higher standards and making the country a better place to live where no one will come and question every thing you do.


Edit: Also is interesting to see the way most of you want to take in more control and power under the government to "fix" the countries problems by increasing regulation and taxes and such. By doing such taking away the power from local governments and the people and centralizing it into a powerful central rule.
And you guys don't see this is exactly the mistakes governments keep making all the time. They come into power with an intent to "fix" the nation by taking more power under themselves, centralizing the economy more and increasing regulations and interventions. We've repeatedly seen this hasn't been working. Putting so much control and power under one body eventually ends up going out of control where everyone in the body ends up on a power trip.
How the country can be "fixed" is by just leaving it alone. By giving back the power to the people and not doing anything, letting the people and businesses sort themselves out.
We have fought so hard to bring in capitalism and free markets from the monarchy we used to have. Now we're once again destroying the capitalist and free market system and going back to the monarchy government structure we fought so hard to get rid of!

The government isn't a business. Its a service to look after and protect the people. The country is built by its people, not by its government. And so it should be left to the people to build the country while the government is there to support the people, look after them and protect their rights and freedom. This is a government for the people by the people of the people.

TheInquisitor

SeanW wrote: »

Think about it for a second: my taxback scheme would only be available to registered farmers. i.e. you would have to be registered as such and you would have to be claiming CAP payments or otherwise leave a paper trail.
So not only would the scheme only be available to known farmers, but Revenue could quickly find abuse i.e. if you're buying 1000 litres a week for your 10 acre apple plantation. In short it would have to be auditable.

Also, the problem with dyed diesel is that the "washing" process creates a thick green (or red) sludge, which despite being toxic, is usually fly-tip dumped in the countryside.
Of course you can't have CCTV cameras everywhere.

So for that reason alone, we need to change the physical mechanism.

Ok point taken , it does sound like a very good idea!

TheInquisitor

af_thefragile wrote: »

9. Stricter prison and criminal justice laws. Build a high security prison where serious criminals can get life imprisonment. Not sure bout the death penalty, but euthanasia could be kept as an option for the most serious of criminals.

I think euthanasia in that respect is still the death penalty . Interesting ideas though. Might be a bit too extreme for me not sure though. I'd be worried that the counties are too small to become so independent or that they could be bankcrupted like what is happening in california!

af_thefragile

TheInquisitor wrote: »

I think euthanasia in that respect is still the death penalty . Interesting ideas though. Might be a bit too extreme for me not sure though. I'd be worried that the counties are too small to become so independent or that they could be bankcrupted like what is happening in california!

Its not violent though.
Its quite and supposedly painless.

There are some criminals who're absolutely sick and twisted in the head whom the world could do better off without. Also keeping them in prison for life is expensive. They can't be let out cuz they're screwed in the head and so its both safe and economical to just get rid of them.


Also small countries are best at becoming independent. Big countries end up like China or Soviet Russia. Cuz only a strong central state can maintain a huge state intact where everyone in it abide to the countries policies and military might.
Its not becoming independent, we are already independent. Its just giving the people more freedom and rights.
There would still be a central government to look over the country. Just it does not interfere with local and private matters much. Neither does it get itself involved with the market.

And private businesses will drive the country forward cuz they're more profit and consumer oriented.
They need to constantly be improving to maintain their consumer interest and profits. Giving the people better product and developing scientific and economical progress.

Unlike say the government running the hospitals. There is little improvement over time, the quality of care doesn't get any much better with time and the government runs it at a big loss cuz its got the taxpayers money to cover up the losses.
All this will eventually lead to the collapse of the system like how it has happened now.
Even if you replace Mary Harney with Barak Obama, the collapse of a government run health system is inevitable.

TheInquisitor

af_thefragile wrote: »

Its not violent though.
Its quite and supposedly painless.

There are some criminals who're absolutely sick and twisted in the head whom the world could do better off without. Also keeping them in prison for life is expensive. They can't be let out cuz they're screwed in the head and so its both safe and economical to just get rid of them.

Oh no don't get me wrong i fully support the death penalty. Some people just deserve to die for their crimes. I would almost say euthanasia is too nice a death for them.

af_thefragile

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Oh no don't get me wrong i fully support the death penalty. Some people just deserve to die for their crimes. I would almost say euthanasia is too nice a death for them.

Dealth is ultimately death.
No point in torturing the guy before killing him.
And that will shut the pro-life people up.
We want to get rid of serious criminals, finish it the easy and quiet way. No one complains.

TheInquisitor

af_thefragile wrote: »

Dealth is ultimately death.
No point in torturing the guy before killing him.
And that will shut the pro-life people up.
We want to get rid of serious criminals, finish it the easy and quiet way. No one complains.

Those pro-life people will never shut up though. Sure they still condemn the lethal injection in america! Point taken though

af_thefragile

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Those pro-life people will never shut up though. Sure they still condemn the lethal injection in america! Point taken though

I was all for death penalty too. But then i changed my mind cuz a lot of wrong people have been ended up with the death penalty.
The system is not efficient enough to give the right person the right punishment.
So that needs to be fixed first.

Then there are those sick rapists and serial killers who don't deserve to be kept alive.

Joey the lips

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Tell us the top 10 things you'd bring into Ireland if you were elected and had complete reign to do anything.(Your manifesto so to speak) I'll start off

1) Build a Nuclear power plant
2) Legalise Abortion
3) Legalise all drugs( the war has been well and truely lost)
4) Increase speed limits on motorways to 140.
5) Double jail time for all criminals
6) Make reuniting ireland a priority
7) Cut the minimum wage to E6
8) Cut VAT to 15%
9) Cut civil service pay to bring it in line with their private sector counterparts. Put a monetary value on job certainty
10) Enforce the laws on white collar crime with proper jail time

Controversial?

The first four are fcuking hellarious I mean seriously funny!

Where do you live! I am looking to build a nuclear power plant, can I build it in your back garden!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

markopantelic

af_thefragile wrote: »

Here comes the libertarian approach!


5. As with no. 4, the counties can decide their own laws on issues such as drugs, prostitution, abortion, gay marriages etc. The people of the counties can vote for or against these laws and enforce these laws according to the majority vote. Each county's decision is independent and not influenced by the other counties or the central government.
The counties also have their own local police force. Like in the USA. And there could be a central police force like the FBI, to deal with the serious matters that local police can't deal with.

I love this idea the most.

TheInquisitor

Joey the lips wrote: »

The first four are fcuking hellarious I mean seriously funny!

Where do you live! I am looking to build a nuclear power plant, can I build it in your back garden!

Sure you can. They cause less damage than coal powered stations.

whats your problem with my other proposals? I think their excellent ideas

legologic

Joey the lips wrote: »

Where do you live! I am looking to build a nuclear power plant, can I build it in your back garden!

Yes

Seeing as it's by orders of magnitude the most efficient method of power generation not to mention one of the cleanest and safest and can replace several polluting power stations with one, you can build your power station in my back garden... I'm keeping the swings though.

legologic

mine would be

1. secularisation of state-run institutions & the constitution
2. introduction of nuclear power
3. gay equal marriage/civil union rights with relation to taxation, inheritance, etc...
4. strichter laws regarding white collar crime
5. regulated legalisation of cannabis for recreation
6. transparent competition and review of government contracts & spending
7. outlawing transportation of POW's or foreign troops/equipment through Ireland for the purpose of war
8. more education campaigns and support for mental, sexual and other forms of personal health
9. lower VAT
10. More support for international partenerships which bring large employers to the country

It's fairly idealistic but these are things I would support. How I would do them I don't claim to know.

TheInquisitor

legologic wrote: »

mine would be

1. secularisation of state-run institutions & the constitution
2. introduction of nuclear power
3. gay equal marriage/civil union rights with relation to taxation, inheritance, etc...
4. strichter laws regarding white collar crime
5. regulated legalisation of cannabis for recreation
6. transparent competition and review of government contracts & spending
7. outlawing transportation of foreign troops through Ireland for the purpose of war
8. more education campaigns and support for mental, sexual and other forms of personal health
9. lower VAT
10. More support for international partenerships which bring large employers to the country

It's fairly idealistic but these are things I would support. How I would do them I don't claim to know.

I agree with everything but 3 ...because im a dickhead!

af_thefragile

I wouldn't be too sure about nuclear power.
Sure they have the capability to power the country for a million years but they also are quite damaging. They produce nuclear waste which is a challenge to get rid of.
And then more importantly they need to build to amazingly high standards or else a small leak could end up in a catastrophe. They are in all fairness ticking nuclear bombs!
And considering we live in Ireland and the port tunnel being an example of our quality standards, I don't think Ireland is ready to go nuclear!!

Better invest the money in building a couple more offshore wind farms.

legologic

af_thefragile wrote: »

I wouldn't be too sure about nuclear power.
Sure they have the capability to power the country for a million years but they also are quite damaging. They produce nuclear waste which is a challenge to get rid of.
And then more importantly they need to build to amazingly high standards or else a small leak could end up in a catastrophe. They are in all fairness ticking nuclear bombs!
And considering we live in Ireland and the port tunnel being an example of our quality standards, I don't think Ireland is ready to go nuclear!!

Better invest the money in building a couple more offshore wind farms.

I don't really want to start the debate here but this opinion really irks me.

They're actually not very damaging at all. In fact a propperly run station (AKA most of them) produce waste that can be treated and stored so it does not cause any environmental problems.

They generally are bult to amazingly high standards as they're considderably more advanced than normal stations. While at full efficiency nuclear stations cause zero risk to the environment while even at 100% efficiency a fossil fuel station pumps pollution into the air 24 hours a day.

A small leak could not end in a catastrophe and in a propperly run and maintained stating would be a thing of legend rather than reality.

and most importantly THEY ARE NOT TICKING NUCLEAR BOMBS. They use different fuel in much smaller ammounts. Also the type of fuel they use would have to be modified intensively before it could even be used in the production of a bomb.

As for wind farms etc I dont think you realise exactly how much smaller and how much more energy a nuclear power station could produce. It's literally in orders of magnitude. thousands of thousands of times the ammount of energy and they're getting more efficient all the time. Germany shut down something like 60% of it's old plants and replaced them with 4 modern ones only a few years ago.

turgon

JonathanAnon wrote: »

nationalise the banks so that profits go to the state. Run it like a private company, not like the rest of the inefficient public sector.

What a complete and utterly blatant contradiction. I wonder how long people will let the government **** up services before they realise the government is not a body designed to maintain efficiency. I love the "not like the rest" part. Its what all biggish central government supporters say: we will do it better that the others. Yeah right, that what they all say. Nothing new here.

af_thefragile wrote: »

They are in all fairness ticking nuclear bombs!

Incorrect, asfaik. Nuclear material for missiles is something like 100 times more enriched than that of nuclear power plants.

turgon

Anyhow, I suppose I should contribute 10.

1. Introduction of same-sex civil marriages.
2. Legalisation of cannabis.
3. Legalisation of prostitution.
4. Legalisation of abortion.
5. Privatisation of Buses and Trains, setting up of agency to manage train networks. Each train company pays said agency a fee based on km travelled. This fee is solely used on network management.
6. Complete rationalisation of the public sector through privatisation and other measures.
7. Complete downgrading of the the welfare state. Initially the non-prsi dole will be replaced by food and travel vouchers with a small expenses allowance. No child benefit, initially for high earners and eventually abolished.
8. Introduction of a health care system similar to Fine Gaels Faircare, eventually leading to greater healthcare privatisation.
9. Introduction of a federal republic, giving powers such as taxation to states.
10. Obviously economic points 5-9 will allow a huge reduction in tax.

af_thefragile

legologic wrote: »

I don't really want to start the debate here but this opinion really irks me.

They're actually not very damaging at all. In fact a propperly run station (AKA most of them) produce waste that can be treated and stored so it does not cause any environmental problems.

They generally are bult to amazingly high standards as they're considderably more advanced than normal stations. While at full efficiency nuclear stations cause zero risk to the environment while even at 100% efficiency a fossil fuel station pumps pollution into the air 24 hours a day.

A small leak could not end in a catastrophe and in a propperly run and maintained stating would be a thing of legend rather than reality.

and most importantly THEY ARE NOT TICKING NUCLEAR BOMBS. They use different fuel in much smaller ammounts. Also the type of fuel they use would have to be modified intensively before it could even be used in the production of a bomb.

As for wind farms etc I dont think you realise exactly how much smaller and how much more energy a nuclear power station could produce. It's literally in orders of magnitude. thousands of thousands of times the ammount of energy and they're getting more efficient all the time. Germany shut down something like 60% of it's old plants and replaced them with 4 modern ones only a few years ago.

Well, stellafield has made the Irish sea the most radioactively polluted sea in the world. Though that is a pretty old nuclear reactor.

I guess if the quality of reactors have gotten better over the years, then i guess it won't be too bad.

But they need to be built to really high standards to contain any accidental leaks and fall outs. And I wouldn't trust the Irish with that job considering what they did with the port tunnel.

Also how are we gonna dispose off the nuclear waste?

Every part of the nuclear reactor, from the turbine to the walls and the water/steam that turns the turbine, becomes radioactive and remains a radioactive hazard for atleast 100years. Hence if something goes wrong, or you've gotta replace the parts, you can't just junk the old parts and they're radioactive and need to be stored/disposed off safely.

legologic

af_thefragile wrote: »

Well, stellafield has made the Irish sea the most radioactively polluted sea in the world. Though that is a pretty old nuclear reactor.

I guess if the quality of reactors have gotten better over the years, then i guess it won't be too bad.

Incorrect actually, the Irish sea would be the most radioactive sea in the world regardless of sellafield due to the natural radioactivity of limestone. That said they do unfortunately contribute to it. As you said yourself though Sellafield was originally built in the 50's and is not exactly a model of efficiency.

af_thefragile wrote: »

But they need to be built to really high standards to contain any accidental leaks and fall outs. And I wouldn't trust the Irish with that job considering what they did with the port tunnel.

Also how are we gonna dispose off the nuclear waste?

There's a lot of ways to deal with it depending on the type of reactor you have. Vitrification (turning it into a stable glass substance) and backfilled vaults it the normal process. As for the construction yeah, our government would really have to pull their socks up to attempt this.

af_thefragile wrote: »

Every part of the nuclear reactor, from the turbine to the walls and the water/steam that turns the turbine, becomes radioactive and remains a radioactive hazard for atleast 100years. Hence if something goes wrong, or you've gotta replace the parts, you can't just junk the old parts and they're radioactive and need to be stored/disposed off safely.

Yeah this is a legitimate concern as economically nuclear stations spend more of their budget on maintenance and less on fuel than normal stations. I guess the words to underline in my previous posts is well maintained. That's the crux of the issue. Though we do have a large pool of well educated people who could do these kinds of things and the spin-off's for research and highly-skilled employment would be fairly hefty.

af_thefragile

legologic wrote: »

Incorrect actually, the Irish sea would be the most radioactive sea in the world regardless of sellafield due to the natural radioactivity of limestone. That said they do unfortunately contribute to it. It should be noted though that Sellafield was originally built in the 50's and is not exactly a model of efficiency Though they have been improving since the 70's with big improvements in the 80's and 90's.

Well, wikipedia but...

The Irish Sea has been described by Greenpeace as the most radioactively contaminated sea in the world with some "eight million litres of nuclear waste" discharged into it each day from Sellafield reprocessing plants, contaminating seawater, sediments and marine life.[9]

Low-level radioactive waste has been discharged into the Irish Sea as part of operations at Sellafield since 1952. The rate of discharge began to accelerate in the mid- to late 1960s, reaching a peak in the 1970s and generally declining significantly since then. As an example of this profile, discharges of plutonium (specifically 241Pu) peaked in 1973 at 2,755TBq[10] falling to 8.1 TBq by 2004.[11] Improvements in the treatment of waste in 1985 and 1994 resulted in further reductions in radioactive waste discharge although the subsequent processing of a backlog resulted in increased discharges of certain types of radioactive waste. Discharges of technetium in particular rose from 6.1 TBq in 1993 to a peak of 192TBq in 1995 before dropping back to 14TBq in 2004.[10][11] In total 22PBq of 241Pu was discharged over the period 1952 to 1998.[12] Current rates of discharge for many radionuclides are at least 100 times lower than they were in the 1970s.[13]

There's a lot of ways to deal with it depending on the type of reactor you have. Vitrification (turning it into a stable glass substance) and backfilled vaults it the normal process. As for the construction yeah, our government would really have to pull their socks up to attempt this.

Yeah this is a legitimate concern as economically nuclear stations spend more of their budget on maintenance and less on fuel than normal stations. I guess the words to underline in my previous posts is well maintained. That's the crux of the issue. Though we do have a large pool of well educated people who could do these kinds of things and the spin-off's for research and highly-skilled employment would be fairly hefty.

Well, i'm not against nuclear power.
I just say it needs to be done upto very high standards if its to be done. For all of that we need a lot of money, highly skilled workforce and resources to build such a project. Ireland can't do this on its own. If we're to go nuclear, we'ld definitely need some foreign business to help us build one.

And then at the same time we need to have a highly educated staff to run and maintain the plant. All this is gonna be pretty expensive.
I wouldn't trust neither would i want the government to build one for us. It'll probably not be upto a high standard or very efficient and will end up putting the country into more debt.
Its best some big private business can do it. They also do take quite a while before you get your return on investment too, hence not many businesses go that route.

legologic

af_thefragile wrote: »

Well, wikipedia but...

The Irish Sea has been described by Greenpeace as the most radioactively contaminated sea in the world

Yes though Greenpeace are almost as trustworth as Enron these days. I'm not saying they're wrong but it is a misrepresentation of the facts to say the Irish sea is the most radioactive in the world because of Sellafield as the Irish Sea is naturally the most radioactive sea in the world.

af_thefragile wrote: »

Well, i'm not against nuclear power.
I just say it needs to be done upto very high standards if its to be done. For all of that we need a lot of money, highly skilled workforce and resources to build such a project. Ireland can't do this on its own. If we're to go nuclear, we'ld definitely need some foreign business to help us build one.

And then at the same time we need to have a highly educated staff to run and maintain the plant. All this is gonna be pretty expensive.
I wouldn't trust neither would i want the government to build one for us. It'll probably not be upto a high standard or very efficient and will end up putting the country into more debt.
Its best some big private business can do it. They also do take quite a while before you get your return on investment too, hence not many businesses go that route.

I agree with absolutely every point you've made here.

FTA69

1) Nationalise and merge AIB and Bank of Ireland, creating a State Bank which would be used to promote small and medium enterprises.

2) Nationalise the Corrib Gas Field.

3) Publically flog Paul Williams for talking complete sh*te about aforementioned gas field.

4) Create a free and accessible health service á la the NHS.

5) Remove all Catholic Church influence from state education.

6) End the state payment of private school teachers' wages.

7) Legalise abortion up until 5 months.

8) Legalise cannabis and legalise and heavily regulate all other drugs.

9) End this f*cking nonsense about not being able to buy cans after 10 o'clock. This is a national emergency like, and someone should be made to pay a heavy price for it, something along the lines of public flogging.

10) Publically flog the sh*t out of anyone caught for corruption or graft.

All in all I think that's a good list, perhaps not enough flogging all round, but it would keep the country on the straight and narrow nonetheless.

ninty9er

I would like to thank my fellow party colleague TheInquisitor for starting this thread:D:D

RayM wrote: »

4. Introduce generous incentives for bio-fuel, electric or hybrid powered cars, and ban the sale of all new cars incapable of achieving at least 75mpg.

75 MPG?? Don't think so. There'd be almost no choice and people would buy the cars elsewhere. We're trying to keep people in work, not put them out of it.

EF wrote: »

7. Reduce stamp duty to make it more attractive to non-first time buyers to enter the property market.

9. Make car clamping by private companies illegal

7. I assume on re-reading you will see the oxymoron.

9. I agree completely

Souljacker wrote: »

3. Legalise cannabis and tax the hell out of it (to a level similar to tobacco).

5. Put a halt on all repossessions on homes in banks which have only stayed afloat because of the tax payer. Allow people the breathing space to only pay the interest until the upturn comes.

6. Reintroduce fees to stop the chronic underfunding in our Unis. Use the greater influence in the banks to set up a system similar to the UK where student loans are set at a ridiculously low interest rate and only made payable back when the person is making over a set amount of money.

10. Put the money (which up to this point has been used to pay fees in 3rd level education) into early years and primary education to ensure real equality of opportunity for everyone.

3. I'd go for it, but it wouldn't be a top 10 priority.

5. Essentially happening anyway.

6. Payback should be by year of college, dependent on salary level.

10. I agree to an extent.

af_thefragile wrote: »

And considering we live in Ireland and the port tunnel being an example of our quality standards, I don't think Ireland is ready to go nuclear!!

Better invest the money in building a couple more offshore wind farms.

1. The Port Tunnel was fixed and 2 I agree

FTA69 wrote: »

6) End the state payment of private school teachers' wages.

I've been on about that for years! It's a joke.

My 10

1 & 2 - Justice
1. Increase the size of An Garda Siochána to 25,000.
2. Train and use the Óglaigh na hÉireann as a Civil Guard, with 10% of the Defence Forces to be used on a constant basis in combatting gangland crime with the Gardaí.

3. Cut all farm subsidies. Country living is a lifestyle, farming is a business. If you can't survive without subsidies then sell up to a neighbour with a head for business. The countryside CAN and WILL survive without farmers

4. Reform the learner driver system...without 20 classroom hours = no theory test. Without 10 daytime and 10 night time lessons = no driving test test. No test = no licence. No licence = use some of the 10,000 new Gardaí to fine the bejaysus out of those who ignore.

5. Negotiate a fuel excise treaty with the Northern Assembly, harmonising tax rates on petrol/diesel/bio-fuel and abolishing motor tax. Increase the price of a litre 20c for petrol and 26c for diesel. FUCK the hauliers. Get on with it or get out of business. The state owes nobody a living.

6. Close Galway, Sligo, Knock, Waterford and Farranfore international routes. Halt all development at Dublin Airport. Develop Shannon and Cork Airports to be hubs for the Middle East, Asia and Europe.

7. Pass legislation to allow Cabinet to overrule objections to national road and rail routes. All CPOs to be final.

8. Nationalise Aer Lingus.

9. Change the drink driving limit to .1 from .7.

10. Devolve a local power to levy income tax. Alter the national rates and open a 3rd band. 13%, 30% and 48%%

af_thefragile

ninty9er wrote: »

I would like to thank my fellow party colleague TheInquisitor for starting this thread:D:D

75 MPG?? Don't think so. There'd be almost no choice and people would buy the cars elsewhere. We're trying to keep people in work, not put them out of it.

Ohh, how did that one pass my notice...
No cars under 75mpg... No wai!!!
I love my Lamborghinis and Aston Martins!!


And ninty9er, about your drink driving one...
You should realise the adds are true when the speak about how just one pint can affect your driving skills.
I rather like Jeremy Clarkson's approach on how to deal with drunk drivers:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/jeremy-clarkson/clarkson-drinking-2009-04-20

ninty9er

af_thefragile wrote: »

And ninty9er, about your drink driving one...
You should realise the adds are true when the speak about how just one pint can affect your driving skills.
I rather like Jeremy Clarkson's approach on how to deal with drunk drivers:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/jeremy-clarkson/clarkson-drinking-2009-04-20

It's more to accommodate mouthwash and naturally occurring blood alcohol levels.

.1 is as good as zero in terms of having a drink, but nobody has a zero reading.

af_thefragile

ninty9er wrote: »

It's more to accommodate mouthwash and naturally occurring blood alcohol levels.

.1 is as good as zero in terms of having a drink, but nobody has a zero reading.

I don't think there is naturally occuring blood alcohol...
I think the drink driving limit should be how much ever the alcohol level raises to after 1 pint or 2.

johnnyc

af_thefragile wrote: »

Well, stellafield has made the Irish sea the most radioactively polluted sea in the world. Though that is a pretty old nuclear reactor.

I guess if the quality of reactors have gotten better over the years, then i guess it won't be too bad.

The irish sea isnt the most radioactive sea that honour would go to the caspian sea? But i might stand correct

turgon

ninty9er wrote: »

4. Reform the learner driver system...without 20 classroom hours = no theory test.

Thats bollox, and just complete state bureaucracy. You dont need 20 hours to to the theory test. I looked over the book about 3 times, spent about 6 hours altogether and got 40/40.

ninty9er wrote: »

The state owes nobody a living.

Well considering the state has alrady ****ed us all by making Ireland so expensive, I would venture that they do owe some people a living they have deprived them by making the place so unemployable.

ninty9er wrote: »

7. Pass legislation to allow Cabinet to overrule objections to national road and rail routes. All CPOs to be final.

Once again, just big government. Your effectively removing more of the puny checks and balances we just about have have. In the same spirit as Eamon DeValara not having an effective Senate and President.

ninty9er wrote: »

8. Nationalise Aer Lingus.

Why? Why do people still not cop that the government is just not good at running businesses? Compare Aer Lingus and Ryanair.

turgon

af_thefragile wrote: »

I think the drink driving limit should be how much ever the alcohol level raises to after 1 pint or 2.

Completely different for different people at different ages of their life asfaik.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

RayM

ninty9er wrote: »

75 MPG?? Don't think so. There'd be almost no choice and people would buy the cars elsewhere. We're trying to keep people in work, not put them out of it.

I'm sure people were making the same arguments when four-star petrol was done away with. The technology to build affordable cars capable of well in excess of 50mpg is already there (there are currently several such cars on the market), so it's hardly a revolutionary suggestion. Obviously it's one of those ideas that would only work if it was Europe-wide, and if the car manufacturers were given a few years to get their act together, but it's perfectly doable.