An organisation for start-ups, and also the South Dublin County Enterprise Board.

Darragh29

Well let me tell you fellow entrepreneurs a little story about my visit to the South Dublin County Enterprise Board in Tallaght Village today...

Just by way of background information, I'm starting up a business and am investing 3-5K seed capital into the business. I was looking for a 12 month start-up loan to match my own investment. As I already have a warehouse and transport, offices, etc, this is why I only needed a relatively small sum to launch this business, say 6K maximum. Now this business is not something in the planning, it's ready to go, stationary has been printed, suppliers in place, customers in place, just waiting for working capital.

Now I just want to point out that what I was looking for was a 12 month LOAN, not a grant or any other type of handout and I already have invested 3K in the business by way of capital introduced.

So I went down to the SDCEB, (South Dublin County Enterprise Board) this afternoon just trying to set up an appointment to come in and present a business plan and discuss my requirements and how we could do business together.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when the lady at reception said they no longer had any funds left to lend to businesses. They have had their funding slashed by "the department", and were not in a position to assist any businesses with funding.

Now here's the even more tragic bit...!!! Even if they had the funds, which they don't, they would not have been able to deal with me because my business is not involved in manufacturing!!!

So if I was manufacturing or making something, maybe they could give me a hearing, (if they had funds which they don't!), but if I'm starting up a technology company, they cannot help me at all...

Now I thought we had a notion in our heads in this country recently that we were no longer Paddy who assembled the computers for Dell or put the figs into the fig roles, but we were now going to be Paddy that worked in the "knowledge economy"!!!

How in the name of all that is holy can this country expect to build a fu*cking knowledge economy when it is actively discouraging small start up businesses in this very area, instead encouraging typically low skill manufacturing jobs, which we have already pushed abroad to cheaper overseas locations because we are uncompetitive and sure in any event, we can't even help these businesses because the County Enterprise Boards haven't even got a pot to p*iss into!?!?!?!

Also, what is the purpose in keeping these County Enterprise Boards open when they are unable according to themselves, to assist any business now with funding requirements due to their budget having been pulled out from under them...

I had an insight into how this government are encouraging entrepreneurship in this country today and I have to say, I'm nothing less than seriously frightened by what I saw today. It's all very well talking a load of absolute horse sh*te about a "knowledge economy", all I'm asking is where are these jobs going to come from???

I'm asking all folks who read this post to confront their politician when he/she lands at their door, ask them how we are going to restore this economy when there is no support whatsoever for small businesses. Ask your politician where the new jobs that will replace the lost jobs, are going to come from???

Your politician will probably grin at you and tell you the "County Enterprise Boards are doing a wonderful job". Well tell your politician that the CEB's may as well pull down the f*cking shutters because they haven't a pot to p*ss into.

Anyway, it's not all bad because I've decided to start up my own organisation to assist in so many ways, small business start-ups. I said before I was going to do this, set up an organsation exclusively for start-ups but I had other work commitments that got in the way, but by Jesus I'm going to do it now because if we are waiting for this governent to create jobs, then going on my experience today, then we are all well and properly FU*CKED. This government don't get or understand enterprise. Unless you are a multinational bringing thousands of jobs here at a stroke of a pen you are a piece of sh*t on the end of their shoe to them. They don't get the fact that every one of those large organisations started out as an innovative idea and a person who pushed that idea into the market and believed in the idea.

I'm going to get a website up and running for this new organisation for start-ups and I'll post back here in a week with a venue for an initial exploratory meeting.

Honestly folks, what I saw today literally shocked and scared me. I think it's time people in this country who want to start up businesses, took a reality check with this government. Don't forget, I wasn't looking for a handout today, I'm investing in the business and I was looking for a 12 month loan.

We have banks that won't lend, we have a government that is driving PALLETS of taxpayers cash into the banks, (which are still not lending), saying it is encouraging a knowledge based economy but they are lying to the people of this country.

I'm saying, forget about the government and forget about the banks, lets see what we can achieve without them...

conman

well said, you couldnt have put it more clearly.
im in a similar position, but a month or 2 behind you..

there are so many skilled people jobless at the moment,
and a little innovation to get these guys contributing again will save the banks and our govs asses, but our gov has no clue as to how it can save or create one job, let alone 10,000.. the less they give us, the more we give them, the more they give the social welfare, and the more people join the social welfare.

it aint rocket science for the politicians to figure out..

I'm going to get a website up and running for this new organisation for start-ups and I'll post back here in a week with a venue for an initial exploratory meeting. id be interested to see this, hope you succeed

Axwell

Sorry Darragh but I dont know how many times in different posts you have mentioned launching a site for this and for that yet they never materialise. There was one supposed to be launched weeks ago, another ages back for startups..I wish you all the best with it but its a familiar post with the same talk of something being ready next week as it was each of the times before.

fergalfrog

Just thought I would add that I have set something up aimed at developing new ideas to get Ireland out of recession.

Full details are at www.norecessionroundhere.com

The url may get snipped and so if does please PM me or see my signature. It has been set up on a voluntary basis but we did get good free plug on today fm earlier today.

It is like the ideas campaign (http://www.ideascampaign.ie/) but focussing on specific ideas and projects rather than more generic ideas to improve Ireland's economic situation.

We contacted our local Enterprise Board. We weren't even asking for funds but more so advice/mentoring on how to grow ideas that come in. We have yet to get a reply but your post goes a long way in explaining why.

Incidently we contacted ideascampaign without reply too. We have had lots of good feedback and already some good ideas (site only went live yesterday) but we won't be holding our breath for government support. As you say the government is focussed on getting established multi-nationals here but it would be so much better if the next google/facebook/twitter originated here instead.

What did you have in mind for the organsiation for start-ups?

Darragh29

Axwell wrote: »

Sorry Darragh but I dont know how many times in different posts you have mentioned launching a site for this and for that yet they never materialise. There was one supposed to be launched weeks ago, another ages back for startups..I wish you all the best with it but its a familiar post with the same talk of something being ready next week as it was each of the times before.

Yeah I take the criticism. Unfortunately I've been absolutely up the walls since January and when I came on here suggesting this previously, I thought I'd have the time to do this but as it happened, spare time just became very scarce in the last few months., but I accept the point you are making. The only time you must not fail though is the last time you try!

fergalfrog wrote: »

Just thought I would add that I have set something up aimed at developing new ideas to get Ireland out of recession.

Full details are at www.norecessionroundhere.com

The url may get snipped and so if does please PM me or see my signature. It has been set up on a voluntary basis but we did get good free plug on today fm earlier today.

It is like the ideas campaign (http://www.ideascampaign.ie/) but focussing on specific ideas and projects rather than more generic ideas to improve Ireland's economic situation.

We contacted our local Enterprise Board. We weren't even asking for funds but more so advice/mentoring on how to grow ideas that come in. We have yet to get a reply but your post goes a long way in explaining why.

Incidently we contacted ideascampaign without reply too. We have had lots of good feedback and already some good ideas (site only went live yesterday) but we won't be holding our breath for government support. As you say the government is focussed on getting established multi-nationals here but it would be so much better if the next google/facebook/twitter originated here instead.

What did you have in mind for the organsiation for start-ups?

I'm just checking our your website now...

Pixelcraft

scary yet unsurprising!

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Axwell

fergalfrog wrote: »

Just thought I would add that I have set something up aimed at developing new ideas to get Ireland out of recession.

Sorry to go off topic Darragh but since Fergal posted here ive had a look and have some questions.

Had a look at the site, you might clarify some details for me. So people come to you with web based ideas which they pitch to you, if you like the idea you design it and then take a stake in their website or the websites profits. So does this include any profits the business makes? So you make ongoing profits even though a website is a one off payment normally, also if I was to go elsewhere to get a website I might spend lets say 5k but you want a stake in the websites profits, so if i have an ecommerce website you want a percentage of all sales? Surely over time this means you make back well above and beyond the 5k i would have spent.

Also if you dont like my idea you are happy to give me a quote on the cost of a website which you will do for me. I will wait for you to clarify things but it just seems like a round about way of getting in more work for your web design business through people whos proposals you say "we're out" to. Then if they do go with you the have to give some of their websites profits which if the business takes off would be considerably more than the cost of getting it elsewhere.

fergalfrog

Hi Axwell,

Thanks for your post but it's not near as underhanded as you might think.

We are not doing this to get new work really - we have no shortage of work to be honest and there is plenty of work/tenders I could chase if things were otherwise. We have tried to convey this on the site and in the same way as the Dragons on the Dragons Den could invest elsewhere they are instead looking to nuture new ideas that may not make it otherwise.

In fact we have asked other web developers as per the home page to get on board. The example you have given is not typical of the ideas people have submitted so far and in any case for each new idea an arrangement will be agreed with the person who has came up with the idea. We are in no way out to screw people. We would only quote on it if they wanted - I thought this might be a good idea for people less knowledgeable in the costs of getting a website off the ground.

Also using your example if someone has a good idea the 5k mentioned would need to be borrowed from the bank (not that easy these days). They may be unemployed and so no bank would even consider them and their idea gets nowhere.

If someone submits an idea like your 5k example we would be happy to agree with them that the max we can earn on profits would be 5k.

We started work on this site on Saturday afternoon and it went live yesterday. We are coming at this in terms of providing people with good ideas and no capital a way of getting their idea going. We are working some stuff out as we go along and if you look hard enough you will find something that might suggest we're just trying to make quick money. That's simply not the case. We have other ideas to take this forward which will prove my point further. I don't want to go in to them now but PM me and I can go in to more detail if necessary.

I'm very apprehensive of discussing this further here as I think people assume you are out to take advantage of people and others take pride in raining on your parade. We have made $2.65 on google ads so far and I'm happy to give full disclosure on whatever I can moving forward.

fergalfrog

Scien wrote: »

@ Fergalfrog, I'm not going to snip your URL anyway.

I absolutely love your idea.
People should see it...

Thanks for that but if there are issues or people have suggestions on how to make this better please let me know or contact us via the site. I put my company name (and reputation) behind this but the alternative was to have nothing and I think people would be much more reluctant to submit ideas to a site like that.

Axwell

Im neither out to rain on your parade or assume you are out to take advantage of people I am just wondering on the way it all works out and who benefits. Obviously they would get their website and as you said they might not get a loan, but I also asked if you are going to retain some of the profits from the website from that point on does this only count till you recoup the costs of developing the site or is it ongoing to which point you would be making more than the cost to get the site done. Also if i come to you with a great idea but want a site thats going to cost 20k to make will you still put the time and effort in to making it when it costs so much?Its a good idea but there are risks for both parties and im just curious.

fergalfrog

yes of course and if there's a major risk we (or the relevant web developer) will need to factor this in.

At the end of the day this will have to come down to a case by case basis but our intention is to get a good outcome for both sides.

theboss80

I started my own business a month ago, i had gone to the enterprise aswell and as it was construction based (even though it actually renovation) they wouldnt offer me ANY assistance either.
I put together a business plan and spoke to my ank. I dint have the greatest credit history and was seeking 5k. I was approved on the basis of my business plan.

So banks are willing to help if you have a strong idea and plan even if the enterprise funds are a waste of time!!!!

Trojan

Darragh, fair play, look forward to you taking this forward now.

Axwell wrote: »

Had a look at the site, you might clarify some details for me. So people come to you with web based ideas which they pitch to you, if you like the idea you design it and then take a stake in their website or the websites profits. So does this include any profits the business makes? So you make ongoing profits even though a website is a one off payment normally, also if I was to go elsewhere to get a website I might spend lets say 5k but you want a stake in the websites profits, so if i have an ecommerce website you want a percentage of all sales? Surely over time this means you make back well above and beyond the 5k i would have spent.

I don't see anything underhand or immoral about this whatsoever. Plenty of investors, dragons and venture capitalists invest money in businesses and get back far more than their original investment. The value they bring is enabling the business to happen, where it wouldn't have if they could get the funding. And they also bear a large risk of not getting any return. Fair play to Fergal there - I couldn't take that risk right now.

fergalfrog

Trojan wrote: »

I couldn't take that risk right now.

...and I might not either. However I'll bet there are web developers/programmers/graphic designers out there with no work, plenty of time and nothing to lose. It would be better to work on something on the off chance it might work than just do nothing.

LightningBolt

Fair play Fergal.

Darragh, Count Board was a disgrace. I eagerly await the next round of knocking on doors.

patftrears

Darragh29 wrote: »

Now I just want to point out that what I was looking for was a 12 month LOAN, not a grant or any other type of handout and I already have invested 3K in the business by way of capital introduced.

Now I just want to point out that what I was looking for was a 12 month LOAN, not a grant or any other type of handout and I already have invested 3K in the business by way of capital introduced.

Enterprise boards are not a bank they don't give out these sort of loans

Darragh29 wrote: »

Just by way of background information, I'm starting up a business and am investing 3-5K seed capital into the business. I was looking for a 12 month start-up loan to match my own investment.

As I already have a warehouse and transport, offices, etc, this is why I only needed a relatively small sum to launch this business, say 6K maximum. Now this business is not something in the planning, it's ready to go, stationary has been printed, suppliers in place, customers in place, just waiting for working capital.

*If what you say is true a bank would lend you 3-5k
*If you have customers ready, you could get credit from suppliers, might
have to give a short term personal guarantee.
* 3-5K you could have saved that up yourself if you knew you where
planning on starting a business

Darragh29 wrote: »

Now here's the even more tragic bit...!!! Even if they had the funds, which they don't, they would not have been able to deal with me because my business is not involved in manufacturing!!!

Clearly stated on their website who they fund
Manufacturing Internationally traded services

Darragh29 wrote: »

So if I was manufacturing or making something, maybe they could give me a hearing, (if they had funds which they don't!), but if I'm starting up a technology company, they cannot help me at all...

How in the name of all that is holy can this country expect to build a fu*cking knowledge economy when it is actively discouraging small start up businesses in this very area,

what are you planning on doing ? technology company doing what

Darragh29 wrote: »

Now I thought we had a notion in our heads in this country recently that we were no longer Paddy who assembled the computers for Dell or put the figs into the fig roles, but we were now going to be Paddy that worked in the "knowledge economy"!!!

instead encouraging typically low skill manufacturing jobs, which we have already pushed abroad to cheaper overseas locations because we are uncompetitive and sure in any event, we can't even help these businesses because the County Enterprise Boards haven't even got a pot to p*iss into!?!?!?!

I had an insight into how this government are encouraging entrepreneurship in this country today and I have to say, I'm nothing less than seriously frightened by what I saw today. It's all very well talking a load of absolute horse sh*te about a "knowledge economy", all I'm asking is where are these jobs going to come from???

knowledge economy is about company that require knowledge to create value, software, pharmacy, energy etc.


There is lots of help out there for companies who meet the requirments or have the potential.

Darragh29

patftrears wrote: »

Enterprise boards are not a bank they don't give out these sort of loans


*If what you say is true a bank would lend you 3-5k
*If you have customers ready, you could get credit from suppliers, might
have to give a short term personal guarantee.
* 3-5K you could have saved that up yourself if you knew you where
planning on starting a business



Clearly stated on their website who they fund
Manufacturing Internationally traded services


what are you planning on doing ? technology company doing what


knowledge economy is about company that require knowledge to create value, software, pharmacy, energy etc.


There is lots of help out there for companies who meet the requirments or have the potential.

There's always one... :rolleyes:

stepbar

Darragh29 wrote: »

There's always one... :rolleyes:

Come on Darragh, it's fair comment.

Darragh29

stepbar wrote: »

Come on Darragh, it's fair comment.

I don't agree for the following reasons:

(1) The ISME conducted a survey this month that revealed that 58% of EXISTING businesses, were denied credit facilities sought by businesses that were surveyed. If this is true, then how many NEW businesses that have proven nothing in the marketplace, are being denied credit, if 58% of existing businesses surveyed are being declined??? Source: http://www.leovaradkar.ie/

The poster's opinion is entirely out of touch with the reality on the ground. I don't actually need a loan to start up this business, I'll have it up and running within a week or two and I'll post the link up here for all to see. But the point I was making was that if you have a good business idea and you want what is in reality a very small degree of financial support to launch it, then I'm saying that it isn't available to you for two reasons:

(A) The CEB's appear to be broke.

(B) Even if they were funded, they are operating petty civil service rules that are hopelessly set away from what our jobs creation strategy should be.

Are we trying to build a "knowledge economy" or are we not??? Or are we still aiming to be Paddy that builds the PC's for Dell or Paddy who builds the wiring looms for GE Motors???

We need to start thinking more of ourselves, that's what I think. We need to start getting our heads around the fact that a lot of us now are educated to degree level and there is no reason on earth now why we should be promoting manufacturing jobs that are typically low skill assembly type jobs, when we know we cannot competitively do these jobs anyway???

The truth as I see it is that there is no strategy for job creation in this country and I saw that with my own eyes yesterday when I stood in the reception in the Tallaght Offices of the South Dublin County Enterprise Board and listened to a nervous receptionist basically telling me that they have no funds left to lend to anyone. They don't appear to know what their role now is in the context of them having no funds.

Meanwhile if you drive down to The Square in the morning for signing on, the dole queue outside the Social Welfare Office is so long it could stretch down to Tallaght Village. You work it out, because I can't.

stepbar

Darragh29 wrote: »

I don't agree for the following reasons:

(1) The ISME conducted a survey this month that revealed that 58% of EXISTING businesses, were denied credit facilities sought by businesses that were surveyed. If this is true, then how many NEW businesses that have proven nothing in the marketplace, are being denied credit, if 58% of existing businesses surveyed are being declined??? Source: http://www.leovaradkar.ie/

The poster's opinion is entirely out of touch with the reality on the ground. I don't actually need a loan to start up this business, I'll have it up and running within a week or two and I'll post the link up here for all to see. But the point I was making was that if you have a good business idea and you want what is in reality a very small degree of financial support to launch it, then I'm saying that it isn't available to you for two reasons:

(A) The CEB's appear to be broke.

(B) Even if they were funded, they are operating petty civil service rules that are hopelessly set away from what our jobs creation strategy should be.

Are we trying to build a "knowledge economy" or are we not??? Or are we still aiming to be Paddy that builds the PC's for Dell or Paddy who builds the wiring looms for GE Motors???

We need to start thinking more of ourselves, that's what I think. We need to start getting our heads around the fact that a lot of us now are educated to degree level and there is no reason on earth now why we should be promoting manufacturing jobs that are typically low skill assembly type jobs, when we know we cannot competitively do these jobs anyway???

The truth as I see it is that there is no strategy for job creation in this country and I saw that with my own eyes yesterday when I stood in the reception in the Tallaght Offices of the South Dublin County Enterprise Board and listened to a nervous receptionist basically telling me that they have no funds left to lend to anyone. They don't appear to know what their role now is in the context of them having no funds.

Meanwhile if you drive down to The Square in the morning for signing on, the dole queue outside the Social Welfare Office is so long it could stretch down to Tallaght Village. You work it out, because I can't.

First off, the ISME are talking sh1te. Think of the audience who would respond to such surveys, in fairness. Quite obviously those who have been refused facilities. But what it neglects to mention is how many people responded to the survey, what the purpose of their loan was for and was their business viable to start with etc, etc. It's very easy for the ISME to trot out such stats. Looks good on their part.

On the otherhand, the BOI have an 80% approval rate on business loans at the moment - http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2009/05/17/story41805.asp. Stats that are easily backed up.

Anyhow, we still don't know what your proposed business is about. Therefore, it's very difficult to classify it as such. Yes, the Gov is promoting the "Knowledge Economy" etc, but if the website is just a web cart selling products / not reinventing the wheel per se, I can't see how this would be contributing towards the knowledge economy bar creating jobs. Okay, great in the short term but not creating any real value long term. We don't know if the idea is even good to start with. It could be crap for all we know. The point is the entrapreneur promoting the idea is not always best placed to decide same. Some ideas work, some don't.

VO

Darragh29 wrote: »

There's always one... :rolleyes:

The CEB's clearly state the type of start up businesses they will help i.e. manufacturing & Internationally Traded Serivces. They are limited to this by the EU. If you put a realistic business plan to them in one of these areas they will do their utmost tohelp you. I have found them exceptionally helpful to me in my business.

The Banks are open for business but again they will only fund what they think will give them a return. In the last 2 months I have secured working capital from my bank.

Every body who approaches the banks believes they have the next "Big Thing" , every budding entrepreneur believes they will suceed , unfortuantely many of them fail.

ISME have a vested interest in giving the banks stick at the moment.

If you have such an infrastructure why would you expect the CEB to give you a loan when you could very easily raise funds elswhere, Have you an existing business already in which case you are not a start up.

Seem to rememebr a thread like this before with a lot of whinging in it about the banks refusing funding.

Darragh29

stepbar wrote: »

First off, the ISME are talking sh1te. Think of the audience who would respond to such surveys, in fairness. Quite obviously those who have been refused facilities. But what it neglects to mention is how many people responded to the survey, what the purpose of their loan was for and was their business viable to start with etc, etc. It's very easy for the ISME to trot out such stats. Looks good on their part.

On the otherhand, the BOI have an 80% approval rate on business loans at the moment - http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2009/05/17/story41805.asp. Stats that are easily backed up.

Anyhow, we still don't know what your proposed business is about. Therefore, it's very difficult to classify it as such. Yes, the Gov is promoting the "Knowledge Economy" etc, but if the website is just a web cart selling products / not reinventing the wheel per se, I can't see how this would be contributing towards the knowledge economy bar creating jobs. Okay, great in the short term but not creating any real value long term. We don't know if the idea is even good to start with. It could be crap for all we know. The point is the entrepreneur promoting the idea is not always best placed to decide same. Some ideas work, some don't.

Well I've invested the funds myself and that has resolved that, but the fact remains that someone could have an excellent idea but not have funding and would never get off the ground. Now I fully accept that funding is scarce, etc and that every entrepreneur thinks that their idea is the next big thing, but at the same time, the only priority that should exist here should be the creation of long term sustainable jobs in Ireland, preferably one's that can't or would be unlikely to be shipped abroad at the stroke of a pen. I don't see how it could be argued that these jobs only exist in the field of manufacturing and internationally traded services. Therefore in my opinion, the strategy is completely flawed/defective. This might partially explain why we are in this situation with regard to the economy in the first place, because for the last number of years as a country, we have been chasing the quick and easy buck.

I understand I haven't shared the business plan or the business activity on here and I'm not evading discussion on the matter, there is a genuine reason for this that relates to a potential competitor and I'll post a link to the website up here as soon as the business is launched proper in the very near future.

VO wrote: »

The CEB's clearly state the type of start up businesses they will help i.e. manufacturing & Internationally Traded Serivces. They are limited to this by the EU. If you put a realistic business plan to them in one of these areas they will do their utmost tohelp you. I have found them exceptionally helpful to me in my business.

The Banks are open for business but again they will only fund what they think will give them a return. In the last 2 months I have secured working capital from my bank.

Every body who approaches the banks believes they have the next "Big Thing" , every budding entrepreneur believes they will suceed , unfortuantely many of them fail.

ISME have a vested interest in giving the banks stick at the moment.

If you have such an infrastructure why would you expect the CEB to give you a loan when you could very easily raise funds elswhere, Have you an existing business already in which case you are not a start up.

Seem to remember a thread like this before with a lot of whinging in it about the banks refusing funding.

I think you're missing the point. I went into the offices in person and gave the very quickest of overviews with regard to what I was trying to start up here. I didn't bring a business plan and there was no discussion of a business plan or even of the general business model. In the back of my head, I didn't need funding, I just wanted to present myself as a first time entrepreneur (which I am not), and see how I was accepted by the state agency for small business start-ups. I was amazed to find a despondent looking receptionist telling me that they had no support funds left for 2009 and that their budget had been slashed to the point where they can hardly keep the door open.

As I said above, the only thing that matters is the creation of sustainable jobs in Ireland. The situation we are in, we simply can't afford petty rules like, "Oh we only do manufacturing jobs"... At the very very least, if you turn up in an office saying you want to start a business that could create jobs, then you should be handled in a certain way. You should be given an appointment to come in and present your business plan and if it makes economic sense, then funding should be available. You seem to think that a decision was made on my application subsequent to the business plan being studied, this didn't happen.

Another point, maybe funding isn't available, but encouragement and advice should be. If they are in the business of pushing people away and enforcing petty rules that in reality have nothing to do with job creation, then they should get off the pot and pull down the shutters...

patftrears

Darragh29 wrote: »

The poster's opinion is entirely out of touch with the reality on the ground.

How in touch I am.
* I was on the http://www.hothouse.ie programme so know lots of people who startup companies
* My company is based in the park where the hothouse is based, so on a daily basis I talk to all the new guys on the hothouse
* I also talk on a daily basis to all the other owners of companies out here
* I am a member of ISME, know lots of owners through that
* I am a member of a dceb networking group, talk to the ceos of enterprise boards monthly
* I am a member of a sales and a marketing professionals networking groups
* I am a client of EI and would talk with them monthly about the situation on the ground
* I have 100+ customers and would talk with them about things weekly
* I am the CEO, Sales manager, bin emptier of my own company

Darragh29

patftrears wrote: »

How in touch I am.
* I was on the http://www.hothouse.ie programme so know lots of people who startup companies
* My company is based in the park where the hothouse is based, so on a daily basis I talk to all the new guys on the hothouse
* I also talk on a daily basis to all the other owners of companies out here
* I am a member of ISME, know lots of owners through that
* I am a member of a dceb networking group, talk to the ceos of enterprise boards monthly
* I am a member of a sales and a marketing professionals networking groups
* I am a client of EI and would talk with them monthly about the situation on the ground
* I have 100+ customers and would talk with them about things weekly
* I am the CEO, Sales manager, bin emptier of my own company

Good lad. Well you don't seem to know much about the CEB's.

You've stated in your previous post:

patftrears wrote: »

Clearly stated on their website who they fund Manufacturing Internationally traded services

When the fact is:

The South Dublin County Enterprise Board offers two distinct financial support packages

* manufacturing and internationally traded services (ITS)
* locally traded services.

Source: http://www.sdenterprise.ie/services/services.505.html

You've also stated:

patftrears wrote: »

Enterprise boards are not a bank they don't give out these sort of loans

They do provide start-up capital loans for start-ups. Source: http://www.sdenterprise.ie/services/manufacturing_and_its.505.373.html

patftrears

Darragh29 wrote: »

Good lad.

Just showing you how in touch i am, where as you are posting based on one experience you had.

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well you don't seem to know much about the CEB's.

You've stated in your previous pos

When the fact is:

The South Dublin County Enterprise Board offers two distinct financial support packages

* manufacturing and internationally traded services (ITS)
* locally traded services.

Source: http://www.sdenterprise.ie/services/services.505.html

in your posts all you mention is manufacturing (fig fig rolls), so your arguement here applies more to you

Darragh29 wrote: »

You've also stated:

They do provide start-up capital loans for start-ups. Source: http://www.sdenterprise.ie/services/manufacturing_and_its.505.373.html

these are capital loan to buy equiptment, not seed funding

You got one setback because you didn't get any money off the ceb.

The people who succeed in business are not the ones who whing and moan about things, they are the ones who take responsibility for their own success and get on with the job.

The support is out there but it's not easy to get, you have to go looking for it and be prepared for the knock backs.

Seedcorn competition deadline is september (I'm entering) you stated you are building a knokledge based business, if you think you have what it takes go win it.
Then you can either go back to the enterprise board show them the award give them the old 'how do you like them apples' or
hopefully have grown up along the way and realise nobody owes you anything, you make your own success and just enjoy the sense of achievement and knowing you gave it your all.

Darragh29

patftrears wrote: »

Just showing you how in touch i am, where as you are posting based on one experience you had.


in your posts all you mention is manufacturing (fig fig rolls), so your arguement here applies more to you


these are capital loan to buy equiptment, not seed funding

You got one setback because you didn't get any money off the ceb.

The people who succeed in business are not the ones who whing and moan about things, they are the ones who take responsibility for their own success and get on with the job.

The support is out there but it's not easy to get, you have to go looking for it and be prepared for the knock backs.

Seedcorn competition deadline is september (I'm entering) you stated you are building a knokledge based business, if you think you have what it takes go win it.
Then you can either go back to the enterprise board show them the award give them the old 'how do you like them apples' or
hopefully have grown up along the way and realise nobody owes you anything, you make your own success and just enjoy the sense of achievement and knowing you gave it your all.

I'll post up my website here next week and you can get a flavour for what I'm at here. Now the only point I'm making is that I could be someone with the same idea but might not have the kind of support that I do have to get it off the ground. So I'd stay on the dole all for the want of some small assistance...

Darragh29

Sorry your wrong again, capital loans are not necessarily restricted to equipment purchasing, as per the link above. As I've said above, the CEB's are:

(1) No longer in a financial position to assist any businesses, according to themselves...

(2) Are implementing petty rules that simply do not support enterprise.

They didn't obstruct my start up plans as I wasn't depending on them for any assistance. I transferred the funds I needed to start this business last night into my business account and that resolved that. The fact remains that if I was depending on them, they would be obstructing me without even a fair hearing. If you think this constitutes support for entrepreneurship, then that's grand you entitled to your opinion, to me it constitutes insane political thinking and a lack of intelligence on the part of the person who runs the department of Enterprise Trade & Employment. It constitutes a complete waste of taxpayers money also which to me is criminal.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

Yup that's exactly how things are going down in the enterprise boards lately... About six months ago i got approval on one of the latest business i was launching. Having a few under my belt and having delt with them before and created good employment in the area it got preliminary approval. But then we were locked into not incurring any expenses until they reached final approval from a new committee they just invented.

After a few months of frustration having a great business ready to go but not being able to touch the business or risk the possibility of funding, we had to retract our request and seek investment elsewhere.

jimbo 22

Same story from the enterprise board In Kk

3-4 Months doodling with a development advisor all to no avail

We had physical protoypes built suppliers sourced and ready to run

Research also was conclusive that we could make a sugcess out of it...

We got turned down due to "bugetry constraints

And yes our business was in Manufacturing and fulfilled all the criteria for export



I would like to make the public aware of what's happening on the ground
The ministers at every opportunity are lieing to the public

The reality is that there is no money and if you do my any chance get approoved - they make you jump through every hoop possible to get it!!!!

patftrears

Darragh29 wrote: »

Now the only point I'm making is that I could be someone with the same idea but might not have the kind of support that I do have to get it off the ground. So I'd stay on the dole all for the want of some small assistance...

or maybe they would try harder and not let one setback with the enterprise boards make them bitter.

300k of cord funding was awarded this week to the current batch of people on the hothouse.
off hand know of 200+k awarded to companies for r&d over the past few months
know 2 guys who got 3millon between them off vcs and ei and business innovation centre fund this year

this is stuff I know personally, not doubt there's lots more.

Like I said the money and support is out there go get it

Not very encouraging stuff in fairness, I hope it's slightly better by the time I get home in September although I just need support - not finance (at the moment anyway).

7daze

I know 2 people on a enterprise platform programe in the North East who successfully applied for Enterprise Ireland CORD funding. About 3 weeks after they were notified that they would get the award it was withdrawn for budget reasons.

Darragh29

patftrears wrote: »

or maybe they would try harder and not let one setback with the enterprise boards make them bitter.

300k of cord funding was awarded this week to the current batch of people on the hothouse.
off hand know of 200+k awarded to companies for r&d over the past few months
know 2 guys who got 3millon between them off vcs and ei and business innovation centre fund this year

this is stuff I know personally, not doubt there's lots more.

Like I said the money and support is out there go get it

I accept your point, but this thread is about the CEB's. I don't know anything about Hothouse or what they do... As I said previously, I resolved this issue by transferring funds from my personal account into my business account, so there is no issue here with me being "put off" as you suggest by what I witnessed in the CEB office in Tallaght last week. My point is that if these boards are not fulfilling the function that they were set up to do, then save us all the expense associated with keeping them open!

I have a major issue with politicians stating that this government has a strategy for the creation of employment, but at the very same time, the local CEB's appear to be completely broke and are not even making a secret of this...

I'm certainly not saying that money should be thrown at people but I do think that any person who thinks they can start up a business at the moment should be given a proper hearing and if they meet certain criteria and are prepared to invest their own money, then they should be given some support.

When I say they should be given a hearing, I mean they should be taken into a board room and put through a comprehensive interview process and first of all encouraged to debate their idea down to the last detail.

Wolff

I was always under the impression it was only manufacturing companies that got funding from the SCEB - like everything else manufacturing gets all the breaks

A quick visit to the website confirms this..

Did you not check this out beforehand ?

Angst

My name is Loman O’Byrne and I am the CEO of South Dublin County Enterprise Board, which was the CEB that Darragh came to for assistance at the start of this thread. I have just been made aware of the thread by a colleague.

Darragh, I applaud your enterprise. I can’t argue with much of what you say but there are a number of issues that should be clarified in the interests of accuracy.

Firstly, our top priority is to assist manufacturing AND “internationally traded services”. Most ‘technology’ businesses are considered to be ITS. So, I don’t know your business but the chances are that you would be eligible.

The only businesses we can not support are A) those with (in our view) no prospect of being financially viable and sustaining employment in the short to medium term and those in sectors characterised by a lot of very similar businesses in a saturated market. In these sectors, supporting growth in one enterprise will only lead to a corresponding decline in competing businesses, with no net benefit to the economy and no return on public funds. This is a very real danger when most markets are stagnant like now. Examples of this are common in construction, retailing (including on-line), the professions and transportation.

Secondly, the reason we have no financial supports at present is because demand is double what it was last year, not because our financial support budget was cut by the Dept of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. This is a local situation in our Enterprise Board but may not be reflected in all CEBs – I don’t have information on that issue.

I accept that this is not what you were told. I believe our Information Officer mis-spoke. I can well imagine that she seemed ‘nervous’ to you. The fact of the matter is that we HATE saying “no” to entrepreneurs and we are very uncomfortable when that is all we have to say. All five of us on the staff here come from a commercial private sector background. There is not one career civil servant among us and we see ourselves as being energetically on the side of the client and on the side of our county. My Board of Directors feel the same way.]

In fairness, we have not had a lot of practice at saying no. During the celtic tiger years, when it seemed that anybody who wanted to finance a business just made a phonecall and got a top-up on their mortgage, our funding was enough to support any sensible business proposal within our remit. Even this year, we have been able to keep assisting new projects until funds ran out just recently. Towards the end of the year we will be able to offer support to further projects but for payment in 2010, not this year.

On the other hand, when we answer to you Darragh, and all of the other posters here, for our use of the income tax, VAT and corporation tax that was taken from you and given to us to use for the common good, we have to be able to show that we used that money well and wasted none of it. We have to be able to show your representatives (our government) that we only gave that money to businesses that make sense and can use your money to grow employment and pay taxes so that we can all benefit. To do this, we have to use all of our experience and the best of our human judgement and we can still sometimes be wrong. Understandably, people don’t like those judgements when they are negative. It is harder to hear “no” than to say “no”.

Just to give you some context; there are 35 CEBs covering all areas of the country, each employing between 3 and 5 people and with an average budget of about €1m each per annum to cover everything, including the money we spend on financial and non-financial supports for our clients. We were designed to be very small, responsive, located in a town very near you and run by people you probably know – just like the businesses we serve. We are required to focus on the distinct needs of our local area and use our experience and judgement to provide a customised response within an overall common framework. That is why people are sometimes confused by the differences between us.

Yes, we are tiny but I would argue that we punch above our weight. There are over 1100 extra people still working today in South Dublin County in jobs that we supported financially. The average cost of this direct financial support is close to €7,500 per job and is very quickly recouped by the State in lower social welfare payments and in PAYE, VAT on extra spending and corporation tax on profits (we estimate 18 weeks at most). Even when you factor in the cost of non-financial supports plus administration (about as much again) it is still a great bargain for the taxpayer.

Is there a better way of doing what we set out to do? Possibly, and I for one will listen to any ideas. Unfortunately, as a society, we have a tendency to believe that there are simple radical answers to any question. I am afraid that things are often not that simple and complex problems need sophisticated responses.

As to what we will be doing when we have no funds to award, well our non-financial supports (training programmes, mentoring, networking, advice, information publications and promotion of entrepreneurship:- mainly in the education system) are all still going strong, and the demand for them is higher than ever, even though this is an area where our budget WAS actually cut quite severely. Most previous clients will admit in retrospect that it was the non-financial support that was more valuable than the financial support. There is more than enough work for us in supporting our local business community in these ways and, as I said above, we expect to be able to offer further financial support to eligible commercially viable businesses towards the end of the year. From January next, our staff numbers will be down by 20% due to one retirement that will not be replaced - I don't know at this stage how we will cope with that.

If you have read this far; well done! I have no doubt that I will get a lashing for some aspect or other of what I have said. However, I have tried to be open, avoid being overly defensive and offer some accurate information. I won’t be responding further in open forum– I think I have said enough.

Thank you for raising this issue and I wish you well with your plans for the website.

Loman O’Byrne

irissh

I might have an idea/basic work done for a web business with minimal startup costs if anyone's interested.

Evil Phil

As I BRITE program alumni I have to defend Angst. The training and mentoring I received last year was fantastic. The BRITE program is run by all 4 CEBs in Dublin. The DCEB continue to support me in anyway they can. They, like Angst's team I'm sure, are doing an outstanding job in very difficult circumstances. Sure they mightn't be able to give money away but that's because the state is essentially broke. Not the fault of the enterprise boards.

The upshot of my time on BRITE is the start of my second business and I'm developing a partnership with another company I was studying with. No I haven't received funding from them but I've received fantastic training on what funding options are available not to mention all the other business skills the program covered.

I have to say, hats off to them.

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

I think everyone gets that the CEBs are doing their best and would love to be doing more. So its not that were knocking them personally as such. But its disgraceful that they are massively under funded and wouldn't the gov be better off giving some of the money to Start-ups that would employ rather than waiting for a month to give that same amount of money to those potential employees as Dole money.

Saying that wouldn't like to be in their position of saying no or delaying success start-ups from launch.

mattfinucane

Read this: http://www.mulley.net/2010/02/12/the-e4-million-govt-website-that-you-never-heard-of/

It sickens me to see that people are getting away this this and unfortunately it's not the exception in this country, it's the norm.

Four million Euro on a website. For million Euro. That's enough money to fund one hundred startups.

jackbauer

I started a manufacturing business in the early 2000's and I traded internationally. CEB had me running around in rings for 6 months filling forms , going to meetings , phone calls and more meetings etc etc. End result was "Sorry your too small".

Starting a business in Ireland is chicken and egg. They won't help until you're well established. Cant get well established without help ..............

TheLoneRanger

SOUTH DUBLIN ENTERPRISE BOARD
I have been refused grant aid on the grounds hat the "Evaluation Committee of the Board is not convinced of the viability of the business model presented in the plan" . I find this totally unacceptable its like saying the sky is blue or trees are green there must a more pinpoint reason for refusal as this application and all the work that has gone into it will be a waste of time .
The time that has gone into this merits a much better response from the board . I have had an idea and have put not just my time and energy but all my money into this project and have created 12 jobs and have trained up these individuals . I have had great interest from local clubs and business's alike and needed funding to create work stations in an enterprise unit so the grant I would have gotten would have gone mostly on creating work area's and improving an enterprise unit . I am not a quitter as you ad the rest of the board will find out this has made my resolve even stronger . I would like to sit with BOARD (NO REPLY) and answer any doubts any of you may have on this project I am all in at this stage with over 15,000 invested from me thus far I have sold many things personally to get it this far including my car . I don't think 10,000 more from the enterprise board is much to ask and if that money was to create just 1 job it would have been money wisely spent . I have contacted my TD about this ludricous decision and I will also be contacting Minister Bruton . If the board cannot see the viability of this project and dont have the vision to see its potentual then I for one have very little faith in its existance and budgetry cost to the state . JUST AS A MATTER OF INTEREST WHAT IS THE SOUTH DUBLIN ENTERPRISE BOARD'S YEARLY BUDGET INCLUDING STAFF WAGES AND HOW MANY JOBS DID THEY HELP TO CREATE ? IF ANYONE CAN ANSWER THAT IT WOULD BE MUCH APPRICAITED

HellFireClub

TheLoneRanger wrote: »

SOUTH DUBLIN ENTERPRISE BOARD
I have been refused grant aid on the grounds hat the "Evaluation Committee of the Board is not convinced of the viability of the business model presented in the plan" . I find this totally unacceptable its like saying the sky is blue or trees are green there must a more pinpoint reason for refusal as this application and all the work that has gone into it will be a waste of time .
The time that has gone into this merits a much better response from the board . I have had an idea and have put not just my time and energy but all my money into this project and have created 12 jobs and have trained up these individuals . I have had great interest from local clubs and business's alike and needed funding to create work stations in an enterprise unit so the grant I would have gotten would have gone mostly on creating work area's and improving an enterprise unit . I am not a quitter as you ad the rest of the board will find out this has made my resolve even stronger . I would like to sit with BOARD (NO REPLY) and answer any doubts any of you may have on this project I am all in at this stage with over 15,000 invested from me thus far I have sold many things personally to get it this far including my car . I don't think 10,000 more from the enterprise board is much to ask and if that money was to create just 1 job it would have been money wisely spent . I have contacted my TD about this ludricous decision and I will also be contacting Minister Bruton . If the board cannot see the viability of this project and dont have the vision to see its potentual then I for one have very little faith in its existance and budgetry cost to the state . JUST AS A MATTER OF INTEREST WHAT IS THE SOUTH DUBLIN ENTERPRISE BOARD'S YEARLY BUDGET INCLUDING STAFF WAGES AND HOW MANY JOBS DID THEY HELP TO CREATE ? IF ANYONE CAN ANSWER THAT IT WOULD BE MUCH APPRICAITED

The South Dublin County Enterprise Board is a board of politically appointed arsehóle wasters who haven't, by their own admission, a cent to support any business. You are completely and utterly wasting your time dealing with these people, they are politicians ffs!!!

They exist only to create paperwork, file paperwork and reject all applications in a politically acceptable way, (in your case, they claim the idea isn't feasible, when the truth is that they haven't got a cent to support any business).

So where are you now??? As a person trying to start a business and maybe get your life back on track, now you are a bit more demoralised and beaten down, than you were before you started dealing with them.

Avoid as you would with the Ebola virus is my advice, your energy and drive are finite resources, entities like the CEB's will grind you down to the point where you will question your sanity OP...

HellFireClub

Evil Phil wrote: »

As I BRITE program alumni I have to defend Angst. The training and mentoring I received last year was fantastic. The BRITE program is run by all 4 CEBs in Dublin. The DCEB continue to support me in anyway they can. They, like Angst's team I'm sure, are doing an outstanding job in very difficult circumstances. Sure they mightn't be able to give money away but that's because the state is essentially broke. Not the fault of the enterprise boards.

The upshot of my time on BRITE is the start of my second business and I'm developing a partnership with another company I was studying with. No I haven't received funding from them but I've received fantastic training on what funding options are available not to mention all the other business skills the program covered.

I have to say, hats off to them.

Sorry I'm takin you up on this Phil so long after you posted this. We don't have the money to support people who want to get off the dole, but we have 10K a year to pay people to stay on the dole indefinitely?!?

The CEB's are the most useless bunch of politicallly appointed muppets that I have ever encountered.

TheLoneRanger

Do not for 1 minute expect an enterprise board to help you this is fact last year the SDEB funding was indeed slashed by nearly 1/4 of a million unexplainably this was taken from the diect funding not wages to the 4 employes that account for 395000 of a budget of 900000 oh yes its real 4 employees get nearly half the budget ha ha jokes on us lol howver the bull**** and deciet does not end there its abuse is wider of the remainding funds asshole mentors and training schools get another 400000 in beautiful hand shakes so direct funding from these errionious deprtments is at most 1/5 or less anyone seeking help does not need a a failed business person)mentor they are already paying an accountant its real were paying for these idiots from our taxes to get their good wages to ismiss good business projects. my example i have an undisputd great idea which they aree but tell me my project need suervision from ..... yes an appointed mentor wow did i not see that coming ha ha i failed to tell them that i have a mba in business and marketing from the smurfit business school in carysfort college that out ranks anyone on their board or idiot appointed metors so my advice do not waste your time with these time wasters and the SDEB ceo louney o loman is so out of touch that he greadily accepts hs paycheck without a care in he world atrue politiion well done

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

TheLoneRanger wrote: »

i failed to tell them that i have a mba in business and marketing from the smurfit business school in carysfort college that out ranks anyone on their board or idiot appointed metors

While I too have very little love for CEB's work sometimes, you holding back information like having an MBA and then being surprised they think you need "metors" supervision... Why would they help you if you are purposely misleading them?

TheLoneRanger

Hi Ronan te term is "mentors" and prey tell did you get a rant? if o tell us all how please.

DubTony

TheLoneRanger wrote: »

Hi Ronan te term is "mentors" and prey tell did you get a rant? if o tell us all how please.

Holy crap. Pot & Kettle.

Apart from funding do CEBs do anything else? Do they offer advice, help with business plans, offer courses or any of that stuff? It seems to me that if they aren't giving out money, there's no real need for them unless they provide some other service.

TheLoneRanger

Ha ha love it Tony I think I just may need a new keyboard too as the frustrations I'm feeling have resulted in the wearing down of same. Thanks again for your wit and eagle-eye observation well done it has lifted my spirits this morning.

RedXIV

DubTony wrote: »

Holy crap. Pot & Kettle.

Apart from funding do CEBs do anything else? Do they offer advice, help with business plans, offer courses or any of that stuff? It seems to me that if they aren't giving out money, there's no real need for them unless they provide some other service.

They do offer advice on a series of topics but to be honest, it could use an overhaul since we used it in 2009. We went in with a business plan and they went over it page by page with us which was great. Then they set me up on a postgrad course for Enterprise development. For some that may have been great, but it wasn't what we needed. We needed help with day to day business forms and we managed to get ONE session with someone in the year we were open.

An Experienced mentor that could schedule in someone once a fortnight would have been perfect for us

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

TheLoneRanger wrote: »

Hi Ronan te term is "mentors" and prey tell did you get a rant? if o tell us all how please.

:rolleyes: The reason there was quotations marks around the misspelling was because I was quoting you!! I'm dyslexic too, but seriously for an MBA such badly published English is embarrassing install a spell check in your browser.

I have got grants before during the boom and If i had to do it over I would (and did) hand the grants back, because they cost far more in time to appease than they were worth. Honestly I don't think many businesses need all the grants / money they believe they do, start up's with money tend to burn it very fast and someone with experience can add far more value than money can.

CEB's really are cash starved and have realistically no money to fund businesses. Lately their courses are awarded to the lecturers under the following criteria "Lowest priced tender submission" which often means you get poor quality guidance, for example social media courses including how to use BEBO for business. As they say pay monkeys and get peanuts. However the knock on effect is people who think they understand the area after a course going on to pass on this "knowledge".