Ireland team to play USA.

danthefan

15 - Gavin Duffy (Galwegians/Connacht)

14 - Barry Murphy (U.L. Bohemians/Munster)

13 - Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
12 - Ian Whitten (Ballymena/Ulster)

11 - Ian Dowling (Shannon/Munster)

10 - Ian Keatley (Galwegians/Connacht)
9 - Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)

1 - Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)

2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain

3 - Mike Ross (Harlequins)

4 - Bob Casey (London Irish)

5 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)

6 - John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht)

7 - Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster)

8 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)*

17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)

18 - Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon/Ulster)

19 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)

20 - Eoin Reddan (London Wasps)

21 - Niall O'Connor (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*

22 - Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)*

NoelJ

not much of a change there it seems

d-gal

Not much point of changing it, guys need to gel as much as possible for this match.
Glad to see Ross playing, good front row

wixfjord

Three words: Tony Buckley why

fifth

Don't think Buckley was all that bad last time actually?

Podge_irl

Buckley at loosehead should be interesting...

chupacabra

If anyone actually watched the game last week you would have seen that as soon as Buckley switched to Loosehead his srummaging greatly improved and all through the game he played very well in the loose. Annoyed to see the same back 3 again, tho Dennis Hurley wouldnt exactly improve the situation. Caldwell for Casey, Ryan for Muldoon and Reddan for Stringer and i would have been happy, afterall this is a tour to see the "next generation" afterall.

Depp

Buckley Is a hero. A try and you think he played badly? wtf?

sm.org

wixfjord wrote: »

Three words: Tony Buckley why

seven words: you didn't watch the game, did you

Podge_irl

chupacabra wrote: »

If anyone actually watched the game last week you would have seen that as soon as Buckley switched to Loosehead his srummaging greatly improved and all through the game he played very well in the loose.

I'll freely admit I haven't seen the game so if he did well at loosehead fair enough. But he's struggled, and badly, every single other time i've seen him there.

A try and you think he played badly? wtf?

Yes, because try count is the main factor in determining whether a prop has played well...

Depp

Depp wrote: »

Buckley Is a hero. A try and you think he played badly? wtf?

Buckley has been poor all season for Munster.He cant scrummage is useless in the loose for his size.

Mike Ross is much more deserving at tighthead than Buckley and Healy and Horan will be Irelands looseheads.The guy is just a waster,Laurie Fisher even said it in an interview.

A try means nothing tbh.

I have no problem playing Buckley at loosehead while healy is unnavailable,I have a big problem with him being played ahead of Mike Ross though,which he was in the last match.

Also why is Stringer being played ahead of Eoin Reddan?
The guy is in the Autumn of his career,he has a family etc.
Whats the point of bringing him along for nothing matches,im sure he has better things to be doing.They have nothing to learn from paying him.

thomond2006

Lads, this isn't a Tony Buckley thread.

Just get over it. He has been ill for half the season.

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

Lads, this isn't a Tony Buckley thread.

Just get over it. He has been ill for half the season.

No, its about the Irish team for the USA, which he happens to be in.

Doesn't really explain the rest of his career. He was hauled off after 30 minutes in a HEC game last year because he was getting crucified at loosehead. I'll be happy to be proven wrong and if he has improved his scrummaging there then fair play to him.

bleg

hope kidney gets one over on eddie

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Lads, this isn't a Tony Buckley thread.

Just get over it. He has been ill for half the season.

Thats no excuse,as laurie fisher said hes lazy.
He cant scrummage and the IRFU should ditch him,I heard he being paid some insane amount of money.The guy is living of the reputation of his size and weight and thats it.He has never done anyting and at his age its over.

chupacabra

Dana Spoiled Seaport wrote: »

Thats no excuse,as laurie fisher said hes lazy.
He cant scrummage and the IRFU should ditch him,I heard he being paid some insane amount of money.The guy is living of the reputation of his size and weight and thats it.He has never done anyting and at his age its over.

So what, we "ditch" a player in our weakest position at the moment and replace him with... who exactly? Regardless of his form or his ability, we are screwed if any one of our current international tightheads get injured, so ditching him is a completley ludacris thing to say at the moment. Buckley gets waaaayy too much stick from so called "fans".

Dana Spoiled Seaport wrote:

Also why is Stringer being played ahead of Eoin Reddan?

Probably to give Keatley the best possible service to set the backline rolling. Also we know enough about Reddan anyway at this stage so either way it makes no difference.

wixfjord

sm.org wrote: »

seven words: you didn't watch the game, did you

No I was away supporting the champions of Europe.
Just because he played well against Canada, doesnt mean he deserves to be ahead of Mike Ross or Tom Court, I havent seen Buckley play well this season, in fact hes a bit of a joke imo.



Anyway, this team should have enough for what I believe to be an experemental US team, also same time zone in Cali so no jet lag. Forwards should be way too strong.

bleg

Dana Spoiled Seaport wrote: »

Thats no excuse,as laurie fisher said hes lazy.

try living with glandular fever, it's not very fun. being completely wrecked, worn out and fatigued the whole time is no way for an ordinary person to go to work let alone a professional rugby player.

bleg

bleg wrote: »

try living with glandular fever, it's not very fun. being completely wrecked, worn out and fatigued the whole time is no way for an ordinary person to go to work let alone a professional rugby player.

He didnt have Glandular fever afaik.

And If he did hes a clown,one of my mates just had it and didnt leave the house for 2 months,do Munster not have a doctor?

He was **** before last year so I cant accept that as an excuse.

Podge_irl

chupacabra wrote: »

So what, we "ditch" a player in our weakest position at the moment and replace him with... who exactly? Regardless of his form or his ability, we are screwed if any one of our current international tightheads get injured, so ditching him is a completley ludacris thing to say at the moment. Buckley gets waaaayy too much stick from so called "fans".

On the basis of this (and last) season, Ross and Court have shown themselves to be better players with a greater ability to play on either side of the scrum. I don't think he should be "ditched" either, but he should be working with Munster to get up to an acceptable level, not being "developed" on an Ireland squad he has done nothing to deserve to be in.

Nukem

Dana Spoiled Seaport wrote: »

Buckley has been poor all season for Munster.He cant scrummage is useless in the loose for his size

hang on a sec - the guy played the first part of the season with an undiagnosed lung infection (main word there is played).Cant question his effort - but agree at loose head is silly and EOS will seek to expose that.

Think Reddan would give a bit more stability as it looked as t hough Keatley was clearly struggling with Stringers passing speed.

Fingers crossed we actually show up this weekend

Zzippy

Nukem wrote: »

hang on a sec - the guy played the first part of the season with an undiagnosed lung infection (main word there is played).Cant question his effort - but agree at loose head is silly and EOS will seek to expose that.

Think Reddan would give a bit more stability as it looked as t hough Keatley was clearly struggling with Stringers passing speed.

Fingers crossed we actually show up this weekend

I wouldn't say Keatley struggled with passes, the Canadian no. 8 was unbound and rushing forward early off a lot of scrums, the ref didn't ping him for it once. He could afford to do that cos it was pretty obvious Stringer was going to pass it every time. At least Reddan keeps the opposition no. 8 honest by trying the odd snipe, I can only recall one time Stringer did that last weekend

Nukem

Nukem wrote: »

hang on a sec - the guy played the first part of the season with an undiagnosed lung infection (main word there is played).Cant question his effort - but agree at loose head is silly and EOS will seek to expose that.

Think Reddan would give a bit more stability as it looked as t hough Keatley was clearly struggling with Stringers passing speed.

Fingers crossed we actually show up this weekend

Hang on a sec,he wasnt good before he was sick what makes you think he will be good enough now?
He is going to be worse now if anything.
The guy simply isnt good enough.Ross and Court should be getting runs in these matches.Buckley is a big unit and nothng else.

I would love the guy to be good but it doesnt seem that way.Why wasnt he at Connacht last year?

dan719

wixfjord wrote: »

No I was away supporting the champions of Europe.

Do they not have televisions or computers in Edinburgh? :rolleyes:
At the end of the day (season in reality), these are development matches, and considering the lack of depth at prop in Ireland, we have to try and develop Buckley (and Ross and Healy). His scrummaging isn't great (okay it's terrible) but Hayes is proof that can be improved with practice, and Buckley is a monster. Give him a work ethic and he could become a decent player yet.

anonymous_joe

bleg wrote: »

hope kidney gets one over on eddie

They're both fairly unlikeable blokes. :pac:

I've huge respect for both as coaches, but they are basically assholes. (Like almost all coaches. )

Nukem wrote: »

hang on a sec - the guy played the first part of the season with an undiagnosed lung infection (main word there is played).Cant question his effort - but agree at loose head is silly and EOS will seek to expose that.

Think Reddan would give a bit more stability as it looked as t hough Keatley was clearly struggling with Stringers passing speed.

Fingers crossed we actually show up this weekend

Am I the only one extraordinarily worried by that? Like, who the fcuk is the Munster doctor? And how did Buckley not notice...?

dan719 wrote: »

Do they not have televisions or computers in Edinburgh? :rolleyes:
At the end of the day (season in reality), these are development matches, and considering the lack of depth at prop in Ireland, we have to try and develop Buckley (and Ross and Healy). His scrummaging isn't great (okay it's terrible) but Hayes is proof that can be improved with practice, and Buckley is a monster. Give him a work ethic and he could become a decent player yet.

I was in the pub then the airport. Missed it for that reason. I'd guess a lot of us are the same.

chupacabra

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I was in the pub then the airport. Missed it for that reason. I'd guess a lot of us are the same.

I have it recorded on my computer, i could upload it but i honestly dont think its worth it.

zenmonk

Listen this Buckley bashing is just lazy stone throwing from certain sections of the fans here who rarely have productive things to say about certain players. It is easy to criticise but to criticise without watching the game is trolling.
Buckley was sick for the first half of the season and since recovering has played some decent games for Munster. Ok you may argue he isn't international standard, fine, but Ireland need to replace Hayes and need a strong man like Buckley in the lineout to lift and if you look back at Munster v Ospreys (ML)he does assume that roll well.
Buckley's scrummaging is weak but is being worked on. I disagree that he contributes little in the loose, I think he is a great counter rucker and a decent carrier plus like Quinlan he seems to get up peoples noses.
The lad is now 28 I think but could certainly have 5/6 years in him if he gets all his components together. Again maybe not at international level.

twinytwo

wixfjord wrote: »

Three words: Tony Buckley why

eh... so he can eat some yanks for breaky:D

Stev_o

Has the US team been selected yet?

Ciaran-Irl

To be honest, I agree with giving them more time to get together as a unit. This lot have no experience of playing with each other - some of the UK lads especially.

In a bubble though, for me D. Ryan would be in for Muldoon // Reddan in for Stringer // I'd do something (anything) with that back line.

Where is Fionn Carr anyway? He deserved a spot on the bench I reckon.

danthefan

I know Buckley was ill but it's become a convenient excuse at this stage. He couldn't scrummage last season and he couldn't scrummage at the end of this season when completely fit either. He can't scrummage, sick or otherwise.

budhabob

just to get away from player bashing ( i'm glad buckley is getting a shot ) what time is this match, and what station is it being shown on?

anonymous_joe

chupacabra wrote: »

I have it recorded on my computer, i could upload it but i honestly dont think its worth it.

Aye. At this stage I couldn't force myself to.

Anyway, I've got a downloaded version of the final to watch instead. ^^

zenmonk wrote: »

Listen this Buckley bashing is just lazy stone throwing from certain sections of the fans here who rarely have productive things to say about certain players. It is easy to criticise but to criticise without watching the game is trolling.
Buckley was sick for the first half of the season and since recovering has played some decent games for Munster. Ok you may argue he isn't international standard, fine, but Ireland need to replace Hayes and need a strong man like Buckley in the lineout to lift and if you look back at Munster v Ospreys (ML)he does assume that roll well.
Buckley's scrummaging is weak but is being worked on. I disagree that he contributes little in the loose, I think he is a great counter rucker and a decent carrier plus like Quinlan he seems to get up peoples noses.
The lad is now 28 I think but could certainly have 5/6 years in him if he gets all his components together. Again maybe not at international level.

Buckley's only been sick this season.

He's clearly got lots of potential, but then, my uncle who I resemble a lot in build, height etc, was a Leinster athletics champion - I'm sure I've got the potential, but that's all it is - potential, I'm not going to be racing for Ireland any time soon. (At least not until this gym lark starts to pay off. :pac:)

Potential is fcuk all against the here and now in the short term - and at Buckley's age there's not much of a long term left.

TarfHead

budhabob wrote: »

just to get away from player bashing ( i'm glad buckley is getting a shot ) what time is this match, and what station is it being shown on?

Setanta Ireland
21:00
Sun 31 May

19:00 Live: The Hub
Live: In tonight's show, Ciaran Fitzgerald previews USA v Ireland while Dessie Farrell, chief executive of the Gaelic Players Association, discusses the weekend’s GAA action and issues of player welfare.
20:30 Live Rugby: USA v Ireland
Live action from the Setanta Challenge Cup as the United States of America take on Ireland. K.O. 9:00pm.

budhabob

TarfHead wrote: »

Setanta Ireland
21:00
Sun 31 May

What crap. thought it would be on rte2.

TarfHead

budhabob wrote: »

What crap. thought it would be on rte2.

They're playing for the Setanta Challenge Cup, so ..

premierstone

budhabob wrote: »

What crap. thought it would be on rte2.

Ah go on bob its a bank holiday weekend surely you can make it to the boozer, great excuse and all that!

budhabob

premierstone wrote: »

Ah go on bob its a bank holiday weekend surely you can make it to the boozer, great excuse and all that!

good point, well made.

sm.org

budhabob wrote: »

good point, well made.

At least you wont have to listen to Nugents commentary.

bamboozle

I dont rate Buckley but he is the best in the country at counter rucking, he resembles a bear shaking a bee's nest.
apart from counter rucking he's not very good and rarely looks interested.

Peter B

bamboozle wrote: »

I dont rate Buckley but he is the best in the country at counter rucking, he resembles a bear shaking a bee's nest.
apart from counter rucking he's not very good and rarely looks interested.

I really hope Buckley makes it up to international level, but I do agree sometimes it does look like he's just not interested. It may have been due to his illness but I just wish he would drink 2 or 3 redbulls before he gets on the field just to get his energy levels up!

Tomtom364

The setanta CC?

Thought thats a munster vs usa thing?

Leslie91

Just thought I'd chime in on the prop debate.

Buckley is only keeping the seat warm for others, as is Court. I saw the whole 80 mins last week and the worst prop on the pitch in a green jersey was Court by a country mile. It galls me to see this 'Aussie' piggy backing the winning of the Grand Slam. I dunno wot anyone sees in the chap.

Ross and Healy are the future.

Is Healy gonna get out for the Churchill cup does anyone know?. I reckon he could be v v close to getting out for the Lions were say Gethin Jenkins or Sheridan to go down.

Podge_irl

bamboozle wrote: »

I dont rate Buckley but he is the best in the country at counter rucking, he resembles a bear shaking a bee's nest.
apart from counter rucking he's not very good and rarely looks interested.

Sure, when he bothers his arse actually doing the counter rucking.

Buckley is only keeping the seat warm for others, as is Court. I saw the whole 80 mins last week and the worst prop on the pitch in a green jersey was Court by a country mile. It galls me to see this 'Aussie' piggy backing the winning of the Grand Slam. I dunno wot anyone sees in the chap.

Ross and Healy are the future.

There are certainly issues with someone like Court playing for Ireland, but I've been a fan since I first saw him in the CC a few years ago (back when he was only about 2 years out of his shot putting career!). He has a work ethic on the pitch that Buckley doesnt even come close to matching and even if he is not quite as good with his individual contributions he makes a hell of a lot more of them.

Leslie91

Podge_irl wrote: »

There are certainly issues with someone like Court playing for Ireland, but I've been a fan since I first saw him in the CC a few years ago (back when he was only about 2 years out of his shot putting career!). He has a work ethic on the pitch that Buckley doesnt even come close to matching and even if he is not quite as good with his individual contributions he makes a hell of a lot more of them.

I admit I have not seen alot of him but I watched him v v closely last week since he was kinda one of the only supposed 'front line' players in the team. I thought he looked disinterested, didn't seem to be putting it in at all. Strolled around looking for people to literally lean against or lie on. The sooner we get Cian Healy on board the better.

Goodluck2me

Nukem wrote: »

Think Reddan would give a bit more stability as it looked as t hough Keatley was clearly struggling with Stringers passing speed.

He's used to that speed from when I played SH with him!

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Where is Fionn Carr anyway? He deserved a spot on the bench I reckon.

He is touring with the Ireland A set up. He was second top try scorer in the Magners league this year, and scored more tries than the whole Connachty panel put together - was top try and Point scorer in the AIL the two yers before that - what does he have to do you wonder?

anonymous_joe

goodluck2me wrote: »

He's used to that speed from when I played SH with him!

He is touring with the Ireland A set up. He was second top try scorer in the Magners league this year, and scored more tries than the whole Connachty panel put together - was top try and Point scorer in the AIL the two yers before that - what does he have to do you wonder?

His defence can be a little iffy.

I know it's only for two matches, but Denis Hurley in front of him does seem a bit mad.

premierstone

anonymous_joe wrote: »

His defence can be a little iffy.

I know it's only for two matches, but Denis Hurley in front of him does seem a bit mad.

But he's not really in reality, Hurley will get very little or no game time whereas Carr will get 2 full matches to impress

anonymous_joe

premierstone wrote: »

But he's not really in reality, Hurley will get very little or no game time whereas Carr will get 2 full matches to impress

I agree with you, but it's more what it says if you follow me?

As a Leinster fan I'd still be a little wary about cheering on Kidney - he's a fantastic coach, and a pragmatic guy, but that's the problem - he jumped ship on us and left us in a big mess to run back to Munster.

He clearly loves Munster (and fair play to him for that) but if you're a guy like Fionn Carr whose put in a huge season, being overlooked for a guy whose done nothing but play for Munster (and while I'm aware that means a lot to Munster fans, let's face it, getting into the Munster backline in recent years has not been as hard as getting into Leinster's or Ulster's, until the foreign signings arrived, and Hurley's been driven out by them). Why should the Munster player get primacy? Why should Mick O'Driscoll be there ahead of Caldwell or (Munster's) Donncha Ryan?

Again, Kidney's a fantastic coach, the best Irish coach ever (or second-best, depending on your feelings about Eddie) but he's not perfect, and hell, he's done wonders for us, but we do need to question some of his calls.

chupacabra

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I agree with you, but it's more what it says if you follow me?

As a Leinster fan I'd still be a little wary about cheering on Kidney - he's a fantastic coach, and a pragmatic guy, but that's the problem - he jumped ship on us and left us in a big mess to run back to Munster.

He clearly loves Munster (and fair play to him for that) but if you're a guy like Fionn Carr whose put in a huge season, being overlooked for a guy whose done nothing but play for Munster (and while I'm aware that means a lot to Munster fans, let's face it, getting into the Munster backline in recent years has not been as hard as getting into Leinster's or Ulster's, until the foreign signings arrived, and Hurley's been driven out by them). Why should the Munster player get primacy? Why should Mick O'Driscoll be there ahead of Caldwell or (Munster's) Donncha Ryan?

Again, Kidney's a fantastic coach, the best Irish coach ever (or second-best, depending on your feelings about Eddie) but he's not perfect, and hell, he's done wonders for us, but we do need to question some of his calls.

I completley agree, and as a munster fan i still cant understand the reasoning behind Denis Hurley on the bench and Mick O'Driscoll on the field, the former is just not good enough and the latter is pointless if this is a tour to see "the future of irish rugby". Caldwell SHOULD be starting and Fionn Carr SHOULD be on the bench if not in the XV, ill stick my neck out and say there is a little bit of favouratism lingering.

Ciaran-Irl

chupacabra wrote: »

I completley agree, and as a munster fan i still cant understand the reasoning behind Denis Hurley on the bench and Mick O'Driscoll on the field, the former is just not good enough and the latter is pointless if this is a tour to see "the future of irish rugby". Caldwell SHOULD be starting and Fionn Carr SHOULD be on the bench if not in the XV, ill stick my neck out and say there is a little bit of favouratism lingering.

Not sure about Mick O'Driscoll being the wrong call. I'd guess players like himself and Stringer are there because they shouldn't just put out 15 players that have shag all test experience.

I figure that the theory on a tour like this is that you need a few very experienced folks to bring out the best in the new guys. They'll be the leaders on the field, and the newer guys will learn from them. But as I say, in a bubble, I wouldn't have them there.

BUT... Denis Hurley shouldn't be there, and Fionn Carr should be starting.

I heard that Devin Toner was brought out Wednesday due to an injury scare to Mick O Driscoll. Must be harsh on the guy to leave the Cup celebrations and then not to make the 22.