Dunlop goes down for two years.

JonathanAnon

Two years just heard it on Kenny's show. Will prob serve one when all things are taken into consideration.

Our man in Havana

Proper order. Shows the courts are not afraid of jailing FF lackeys.

spadder

Now jail the politicians who took the bribes.

bmaxi

Two years out of a possible maximum seven. Not enough.

P. Breathnach

spadder wrote: »

Now jail the politicians who took the bribes.

I trust that you think we need trials first.

mike65

Jailing Dunlop and not going after those who took bribes would be a travesty for me.

gaz wac

bmaxi wrote: »

Two years out of a possible maximum seven. Not enough.

Not even two years...18 months !!...he will do less than a year

The_Conductor

Its 18 months actually- thank god hes actually getting jail time though.

spadder

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I trust that you think we need trials first.

They tend not to remember anything, let revenue ask them to prove where they got their monies and if they say "I won it on a horse" - straight to jail, don't pass go, don't pick up ministerial pension.

Our man in Havana

smccarrick wrote: »

Its 18 months actually- thank god hes actually getting jail time though.

Expect an immediate appeal to be lodged and he will get bail in the meantime.

donaghs

If he is guilty, does that mean that he was telling the truth, and the politicians took the bribes?
Any chance of them going to jail?

P. Breathnach

donaghs wrote: »

If he is guilty, does that mean that he was telling the truth, and the politicians took the bribes?

It means that when the money left his possession, it was a bribe; when it arrived in the politician's possession, it was a political donation.

Any chance of them going to jail?

I'm not holding my breath.

bmaxi

Bond-007 wrote: »

Expect an immediate appeal to be lodged and he will get bail in the meantime.

We can only hope the appeal court judge is actually awake and breathing.

eimear1

donaghs wrote: »

If he is guilty, does that mean that he was telling the truth, and the politicians took the bribes?
Any chance of them going to jail?

At least Dunlop had the guts to own up to what he did, admit it was wrong and take the hit for it, unlike the politicians who took the bribes and hide behind amnesia and lawyers. Not saying he was right, but has recently shown more integrity than others still in positions of authority.
I've no objection to him getting bail while appealing, even violent criminals have gotten that while waiting for trial!

jeemojney

bmaxi wrote: »

We can only hope the appeal court judge is actually awake and breathing.

he pleaded guilty, what would he be appealing ? length of sentence ? hardly, he'll take his medicine, he's supposed to have got 250 grand for bribing the councillors to get the zoning of the land changed, he got a 30 grand fine, 220 large for 9 months inside, hmmmmmm

bmaxi

eimear1 wrote: »

At least Dunlop had the guts to own up to what he did, admit it was wrong and take the hit for it, unlike the politicians who took the bribes and hide behind amnesia and lawyers. Not saying he was right, but has recently shown more integrity than others still in positions of authority.
I've no objection to him getting bail while appealing, even violent criminals have gotten that while waiting for trial!

He didn't "own up".

bmaxi

jeemojney wrote: »

he pleaded guilty, what would he be appealing ? length of sentence ? hardly, he'll take his medicine, he's supposed to have got 250 grand for bribing the councillors to get the zoning of the land changed, he got a 30 grand fine, 220 large for 9 months inside, hmmmmmm

Probably severity of sentence, you know, bad heart, stress, intimidation by all those horrible tv licence defaulters.
Can anyone remember the horrendous conditions Ray Burke had to endure and the two fingered salute he gave to the public? My heart is bleeding for Dunlop.

legalbird12

Sorry if this is the wrong forum.

Where is Frank Dunlop most likely to serve his 18 months?

oscarBravo

Threads merged.

Rebelheart

mike65 wrote: »

Jailing Dunlop and not going after those who took bribes would be a travesty for me.

I couldn't agree more with this. There really is something wrong with jailing him and letting the scum like Burke live on their huge ministerial pensions when Dunlop is going to prison precisely because the judge said he is guilty of bribing them.

Do we have prison sentences for people who accept bribes or is that grand?

Nodin

Ray Burke got 6 months. George Redmond got a year. Liam T Cosgrave did 75 hours community service. Michael Lowry settled with the Revenue. Ben Dunne wasn't charged. Pee Flynn is judged to have received 50,000 from Dunlop but has never been charged. CJ Haughey wasn't charged at all, as it was judged prejudicial comments had been made by Harney.

Considering that, and the fact he co-operated, I'd say he's been shafted, relatively speaking.

Riskymove

Dunlop, middleman lobbyist - jail

Redmond, corrupt official - jail

Politicians who actually took money for votes - nothing

notice the trend?

bmaxi

Riskymove wrote: »

Dunlop, middleman lobbyist - jail

Redmond, corrupt official - jail

Politicians who actually took money for votes - nothing

notice the trend?

Haughey, suspected of dodgy dealing. Returned by voters
Burke ditto
Lawlor ditto
Lowry ditto
Flynn P ditto
Flynn B ditto
Notice the trend?

Altreab

Nodin wrote: »

Ray Burke got 6 months. George Redmond got a year. Liam T Cosgrave did 75 hours community service. Michael Lowry settled with the Revenue. Ben Dunne wasn't charged. Pee Flynn is judged to have received 50,000 from Dunlop but has never been charged. CJ Haughey wasn't charged at all, as it was judged prejudicial comments had been made by Harney.

Considering that, and the fact he co-operated, I'd say he's been shafted, relatively speaking.

And what about the people who made the really big money out of all this? The people that financed the bribes? How many of them will see the inside of a jail?

The_Conductor

bmaxi wrote: »

Haughey, suspected of dodgy dealing. Returned by voters
Burke ditto
Lawlor ditto
Lowry ditto
Flynn P ditto
Flynn B ditto
Notice the trend?

Yes- the system, along with those elected by the system are all inherently corrupt. Local voters vote on the basis of what 'their' politician brings home to the constituency- not the good that they do for the country. This is why Jackie Healy Rae is a folk hero in Kerry- and despised everywhere else.

Until such time as pork barrel politics are abondoned in favour of a list system, and politicians represent the Irish people- rather than Jack and Anne from Bog na Boille, we have no chance at all.......

Nodin

Altreab wrote: »

And what about the people who made the really big money out of all this? The people that financed the bribes? How many of them will see the inside of a jail?

Well, going on what we've seen so far...none.

Riskymove

bmaxi wrote: »

Haughey, suspected of dodgy dealing. Returned by voters
Burke ditto
Lawlor ditto
Lowry ditto
Flynn P ditto
Flynn B ditto
Notice the trend?

the difference to me is that people are free to vote for whoever they like....but the justice system should have to investigate and act on wrong doing, regardless of who that person is

bmaxi

Riskymove wrote: »

the difference to me is that people are free to vote for whoever they like....but the justice system should have to investigate and act on wrong doing, regardless of who that person is

The electorate, by returning these people to the Dáil imply that the standards and ethics they display, are acceptable.
The justice system is supposed to be independent and subject to the law and the constitution, while I believe this to be the case for the most part, it must be remembered that it is politically appointed, either directly or indirectly.

Mr.Micro

In Dunlop's credit he gave up all the info to the tribunals knowing that he was indicting himself. He may have had a Damascian moment for him to find moral courage to reveal all. All those dirty politicians should be investigated by the CAB without delay as they took the money.

DubTony

Altreab wrote: »

And what about the people who made the really big money out of all this? The people that financed the bribes? How many of them will see the inside of a jail?

The only way anyone was able to make really big money was by bribing elected officials and the odd county manager.

The question needs to be asked. What's worse? Bribing an official in the hope that he'll vote for you to build a shopping centre, where traffic mayhem will ensue and the quality of life for those who live next door to it will be massively reduced for ever ....

or ...

Voting for the shopping centre and so ensuring traffic chaos and a reduced standard of living for those who live beside it.

The simple fact is that if politicians were straight we'd have better infrastructure and smarter planning to go along with these shopping centres, because then they'd be working in the interest of the people who elected them as opposed to walking all over them.

paddyboy23

poor old frank the fall guy dont get me wrong hes as guilty as sin but theres a lot of the big boys of ff wishing he would just die if i were you frank id hang them all

juuge

smccarrick wrote: »

........Until such time as pork barrel politics are abondoned in favour of a list system, and politicians represent the Irish people- rather than Jack and Anne from Bog na Boille, we have no chance at all.......

Well said! and guess what the cute-hoors will still be voted back, and one wonders why the Irish are percieved as being 'thick' is it any wonder.

Rebelheart

I'm pleasantly surprised at the amount of people who are seeing this as I and everybody around me are seeing it: it will be a travesty if Frank alone is the only one to be sent to prison. It is wrong on so many levels. He deserves to be in prison, but not to be the scapegoat. This is the problem I have.

As I said last week on another board here, I've known Frank all my life and I wasn't expecting this. There were so many mitigating circumstances, chiefly that he co-operated fully with the legal authorities of this state. He, and his notebook, indicted an awful lot of powerful people in this society. His evidence indicted himself, and he is going to prison for a comparatively long time. Given his co-operation and all the information he has given to the state it is beyond belief that it is he who is behind bars tonight, while these politicians are seemingly beyond reach.

I agree entirely with Paddyboy23: Frank should hang them all. But the irony is that his evidence is substantial enough to date to hang an awful lot of them.

There is something fundamentally wrong that he, and he alone, has been imprisoned while all these corrupt public representatives - people who were elected and expected to protect our interests (an obligation which Frank Dunlop never had, as very wrong as he obviously was).

These people betrayed us and our trust. And we, Irish society, reward them by jailing the very man who has told us all about it. This is wrong, wrong and wrong.

Rebelheart

legalbird12 wrote: »

Sorry if this is the wrong forum.

Where is Frank Dunlop most likely to serve his 18 months?

Frank is, surprisingly, being held in Arbour Hill prison tonight. The Irish Times wrongly assumed (here:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0526/breaking4.html?via=mr) that he was being taken to Mountjoy.

I don't know why they chose Arbour Hill though, which if I'm not mistaken is for sex offenders. Very odd. My heart goes out to his family, who are salt of the earth people.

randylonghorn

smccarrick wrote: »

This is why Jackie Healy Rae is a folk hero in Kerry- and despised everywhere else.

Ah, here ... there's a hell of a lot of Kerry people despise him as well!

bmaxi

Rebelheart wrote: »

I agree entirely with Paddyboy23: Frank should hang them all. But the irony is that his evidence is substantial enough to date to hang an awful lot of them.

There is something fundamentally wrong that he, and he alone, has been imprisoned while all these corrupt public representatives - people who were elected and expected to protect our interests (an obligation which Frank Dunlop never had, as very wrong as he obviously was).

These people betrayed us and our trust. And we, Irish society, reward them by jailing the very man who has told us all about it. This is wrong, wrong and wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought I heard that files were being prepared for the DPP in a number of other cases.
I don't have any sympathy for Dunlop, he did what he did for one reason only, greed. He should have been thinking of the possible consequences for his family at the time but he thought his powerful buddies would protect him.
I would dearly love to see more of these criminals follow him through the prison gates but I won't subscribe to the idea that he was an innocent abroad.

jonsnow

the politicians should go down too .But they wont-it would be actually very hard to prove.One of the main reasons is because they sold their votes so cheaply- a few meals, a few pints,for the really greedy ones a few grand.There wont be much of a trail.Its the developers who made the real killing from this not the politicos.They made millions out of a few thousand in backhanders.But they wont be caught either.

scargill

Rebelheart wrote: »

Frank is, surprisingly, being held in Arbour Hill prison tonight. The Irish Times wrongly assumed (here:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0526/breaking4.html?via=mr) that he was being taken to Mountjoy.

I don't know why they chose Arbour Hill though, which if I'm not mistaken is for sex offenders. Very odd. My heart goes out to his family, who are salt of the earth people.

Ray Burke spent 6 months there too. They must have a Fianna Fail wing.

HobokenXVI

bmaxi wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought I heard that files were being prepared for the DPP in a number of other cases.
I don't have any sympathy for Dunlop, he did what he did for one reason only, greed. He should have been thinking of the possible consequences for his family at the time but he thought his powerful buddies would protect him.
I would dearly love to see more of these criminals follow him through the prison gates but I won't subscribe to the idea that he was an innocent abroad.

How convenient for those bribed that the DPP is to review their files. I wonder how long they will serve? How can you know that Mr. Dunlop "thought" his powerful friends would protect him? You're speculating.
Mr. Dunlop was told by the Tribunal after he confessed that if he cooperated with proceedings that this would be taken into account further inquiries. However this was not considered by Justice Frank O'Donnell is his sentence. This was not the case. I recently visited Dunboyne, Co. Meath and Mr. Dunlop IS a complete pariah in that community - in my opinion this man has suffered enough and he is being hung out to dry by those politicians. He is in Arbour Hill? Paedophiles from the Christian Brother order should be in there. Not Frank Dunlop. So do not say Mr. Dunlop was motivated by greed. What greed motivated him to admit his wrongdoing? No family deserves to be torn apart by a prison sentence no matter what the crime. I read today (Irish Independent) that Dunlop lost his first son (aged 16) to a serious illness - god bless his wife and give her strength.

Now the Mr. Colm Allen has cleared his name and Mr. Frank O'Donnell will more than likely be promoted to The High Court, I wonder if people actually believe that yes, this has put closure on corruption in Ireland? I think not. This is only the beginning and Mr. Dunlop is the fall guy.

How you can be exhilarated by Mr. Dunlop's sentence is an appalling thought. Has anyone even taken into account how much the Liffey Valley Shopping Centre has done for the area?

But like most interests Irish I suppose it was Frank Dunlop yesterday and clerical abuse today. Ireland will move on from issue to issue, release a report, write a letter to the Irish Times and move on. Yes this is an end to Dunlop's corruption but Ireland's is only being revealed.

oscarBravo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It means that when the money left his possession, it was a bribe; when it arrived in the politician's possession, it was a political donation.

Accepting that that was a somewhat flippant remark: if Dunlop has been convicted of corruption, does that not establish as a matter of fact in law that corrupt payments were made by him to specific individuals?

How, exactly, can the recipients of payments that have been established in law to be corrupt not be found guilty of corruption?

Flyboy!!!

Nodin wrote: »

CJ Haughey wasn't charged at all, as it was judged prejudicial comments had been made by Harney.

It was said the reason Haughey wouldn't stand trail was because there wasn't a court in the land where CJ could get a fair trial. This is a lie. We have the special criminal court for such cases, no jury, just three judges. If it was good enough for trying suspected IRA members then it ought to be more then adequate for corrupt politicians.

HobokenXVI

Bond-007 wrote: »

Proper order. Shows the courts are not afraid of jailing FF lackeys.

Rubbish. You sound like today's Irish Times Editorial.

The courts weren't to brave with Bertie. Or FF's inside puppeteers such as PJ Mara.

HobokenXVI

bmaxi wrote: »

Two years out of a possible maximum seven. Not enough.

I encourage you to visit Arbour Hill. Look at the evidence presented in court and the record of Mr. Dunlop's trial. You see if he deserves seven.

BoardsRanger

HobokenXVI wrote: »

I recently visited Dunboyne, Co. Meath and Mr. Dunlop IS a complete pariah in that community

Thats fairly sad to hear- i hope this isnt true. I was in college with frank, and it must be said, he was some character! I once sat beside him for an exam when at the start, the invigilator asked if anyone in the room had any material wrote on notes or on themselfs- to which frank put up his hand, pointed at my leg and said he thought i had something wrote on my leg. Much to his amusement, i started to sweat with embarrassment (obviously i didnt have anything wrote there at all).
I really hope frank names and shames all the politicians who recieved bribes.

HobokenXVI

BoardsRanger wrote: »

Thats fairly sad to hear- i hope this isnt true. I was in college with frank, and it must be said, he was some character! I once sat beside him for an exam when at the start, the invigilator asked if anyone in the room had any material wrote on notes or on themselfs- to which frank put up his hand, pointed at my leg and said he thought i had something wrote on my leg. Much to his amusement, i started to sweat with embarrassment (obviously i didnt have anything wrote there at all).
I really hope frank names and shames all the politicians who recieved bribes.

It shocked me to the core. To think that "Ireland of the welcomes" could be so horrifically unkind towards mention of him. So much for community. I believe he was a gentleman and an extremely funny one at that!

dresden8

HobokenXVI wrote: »

No family deserves to be torn apart by a prison sentence no matter what the crime.

Open the doors so!

HobokenXVI

dresden8 wrote: »

Open the doors so!

My mistake! Meant to say "this family doesn't deserve etc."

Only if prison contained all those who should be there....
Don't think the Dail doors are that easily opened!!!

bmaxi

HobokenXVI wrote: »

How convenient for those bribed that the DPP is to review their files. I wonder how long they will serve? How can you know that Mr. Dunlop "thought" his powerful friends would protect him? You're speculating.
Mr. Dunlop was told by the Tribunal after he confessed that if he cooperated with proceedings that this would be taken into account further inquiries. However this was not considered by Justice Frank O'Donnell is his sentence. This was not the case. I recently visited Dunboyne, Co. Meath and Mr. Dunlop IS a complete pariah in that community - in my opinion this man has suffered enough and he is being hung out to dry by those politicians. He is in Arbour Hill? Paedophiles from the Christian Brother order should be in there. Not Frank Dunlop. So do not say Mr. Dunlop was motivated by greed. What greed motivated him to admit his wrongdoing? No family deserves to be torn apart by a prison sentence no matter what the crime. I read today (Irish Independent) that Dunlop lost his first son (aged 16) to a serious illness - god bless his wife and give her strength.

Now the Mr. Colm Allen has cleared his name and Mr. Frank O'Donnell will more than likely be promoted to The High Court, I wonder if people actually believe that yes, this has put closure on corruption in Ireland? I think not. This is only the beginning and Mr. Dunlop is the fall guy.

How you can be exhilarated by Mr. Dunlop's sentence is an appalling thought. Has anyone even taken into account how much the Liffey Valley Shopping Centre has done for the area?

But like most interests Irish I suppose it was Frank Dunlop yesterday and clerical abuse today. Ireland will move on from issue to issue, release a report, write a letter to the Irish Times and move on. Yes this is an end to Dunlop's corruption but Ireland's is only being revealed.

I take it all back, Frank Dunlop is a true altruist and champion of the little man. :rolleyes:
Give me a break.

Our man in Havana

HobokenXVI wrote: »

I encourage you to visit Arbour Hill. Look at the evidence presented in court and the record of Mr. Dunlop's trial. You see if he deserves seven.

Why are you an FF apologist?

HobokenXVI

bmaxi wrote: »

I take it all back, Frank Dunlop is a true altruist and champion of the little man. :rolleyes:
Give me a break.

Nice to see you've come to your senses.

HobokenXVI

Bond-007 wrote: »

Why are you an FF apologist?

Where in my argument did I offer defence on behalf or FF? Perhaps you misread something.