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Laser Detector Penalties
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25-05-2009 6:47pm#1
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So what I gathered is a Garda can see a car with jammer but not with detector.
But does error message means fine or just a warning
Also should we say Jammers are ok but detecter attract fine
Also logically if someoe has a electric door the you can always claim you didt know , and how can you know
nice guy always wrote: »Just as an added extra, our speed detection devices show an error message indicating the pressence of a jammer.
Also once stopped a guy that had just that in a Jag. Said I couldnt have detected him and explained what he had........he forgot about the rear of the car!:) The Laser works both ways!0 -
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Are you sure Cope didnt took it home when your mate went to revese the car
:DA Canadian mate of mine was stopped in Canada some time back and the cop noticed the radar detector on the windscreen. Cop made him detach it, put it behind the rear wheel and then told him to reverse over it!0 -
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Proper, and the more expensive units, won't set off that E code on the Ultralyte. Its been well documented in the US and the UK. There are two different codes aswell, one indicates Jamming the other indicates the inability for the gun to achieve a reading. They are two different things.
^ Spot on..
I've used the LTI's and I can tell you the E codes are an regular occurence on any of the LTI's caused by unsteady hand, surface not reflective enough, etc. The garda see these errors (E01 ,E02, E03) on a regular basis as it says below "Measurement Error". Some dark cars depending on their LIDAR signature can be hard to get a reading on. HId lights also cause the gun to work abit harder, but they'll still get a reading a second or 2 later than normal
E07 is the only JAM error: And the only time I've ever seen that error is on a car with HIDs.0 -
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seen a bargain on ebay for 50 quid,its a detector that jams the speed gun for 2 seconds to give you the chance to slow down, gives 360 degrees detection as well. is it worth getting????
Yes, to echo eringobragh avoid it. A proper system, starts from about €700. The diodes (The little light that jams the gun uses the 904nm spectrum, they start wholesale at about €75 each) Don't bother cheapskating this type of thing. Pay the proper money and respect the proper risks.
Plus they are illegal!eringobragh wrote: »
I'd love to know do most Gardai know what those codes mean.0 -
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The diodes (The little light that jams the gun uses the 904nm spectrum, they start wholesale at about €75 each).
OSRAM SPL90 diode to be precise
I'd love to know do most Gardai know what those codes mean.
Doubt it very much.
The E01, E02 , E03 is a very common error seen a couple of times every day ..its generally a point the red dot at the cars plate, click the button and aquire speed. 1 car in say 30 - 40 cars (no devices installed) can struggle to get the reading in the 0.3 second mark and it may take that little bit longer.LTI Manual wrote:Error conditions can occur in a measurement or in system hardware. To make sure you never
get an erroneous speed reading the UltraLyte monitors both the system and the measurement.
When the instrument detects an error condition it displays an error code instead of a speed.
Error codes are in the form Exx, where ”xx” is an error code number. Error codes display in the
numeric display area.
In speed mode, for example, errors show at the top of the screen.
Measurement error conditions typically occur because the instrument could not acquire a target
or could not maintain a “lock” on the target. Usually this is caused by a target that is out of
range or by panning the instrument off the target during the measurement attempt.
Most other error conditions are similarly trivial. Correcting them requires only that you retry the
measurement you were taking.
In the field:
E03 - Garda with LTI 20-20 Marksman
E02 - LTI 20-20 Marksman with Lasercam
I have a 'file' pic somewhere with an E03 on an Ultralyte but can't find it0 -
Yes any member who is trained on the use of the speed detection equipment will know the codes. Traffic members will be well versed in them.
I'd love to know do most Gardai know what those codes mean.eringobragh wrote: »OSRAM SPL90 diode to be precise
Doubt it very much.
The E01, E02 , E03 is a very common error seen a couple of times every day ..its generally a point the red dot at the cars plate, click the button and aquire speed. 1 car in say 30 - 40 cars (no devices installed) can struggle to get the reading in the 0.3 second mark and it may take that little bit longer.
The EO 1 and EO 3 are very common. EO 2 isnt. Ive only ever had two EO 7s. Jammers not big in this country.
On an aside the new Ultralyte detectors are a 1000meters (smaller than the old 20 - 20 but same size as old ultralytes) and are fitted with a mag scope. Also much faster in aquiring a reading.0 -
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nice guy always wrote: »Yes to both questions. Users had U.K. registered vehicles with jammers fitted to the front only. I aquired the speed once the funny fella passed by thinking he was grand:). Subsequently stopped them to their astonshment. Action was then taken. (No question in relation to action please, cannot nor will not discuss cases as such;))
I'm guessing it never went to court or we would have heard something. Stories like that are tabloid gold.nice guy always wrote: »
O yes and can I ask what you mean by HID lights?? Never got an error for that, although some full lights do slow down the detector somewhat
They emit alot more light than halogens hence it triggering the E07
High Intensity Discharge Xenon Lights, The white lights now fitted on Lexus, BMW, Mercedes , etc, alot of the "boy racer" (hate using that term) cars have the aftermarket kits
Aftermarket Kit looks sort of like this (thats a pretty bad HL to fit HIDs on: lights dispersed everywhere!)
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agent_smith wrote: »I remember watching a youtube video a while back (documentary if you will) that did an experiment with the ultralyte laser detectors. They claimed that they are not the best mechanism for catching motorcycles and that radar are more accurate particularyl for sports bikes. Sports bikes (due to their aerodynamic angles ) can and do give false readings even at standstill. They demoed an ultralyte recieving a false reading of 30kph from a GSXR from standstill I beleive the phenominon is called slip drift. Another problem is that the arrow like shape of sport bike fairings means you can get other false readings such as a multiplier effect from passing motorists! Only accurate way I believe to read a motorcycles speed is via rear number plate or the back of the rider. Please correct me on this if my understanding is wrong...
You right. In fact the same would be true with some sports cars (e.g. Lotus, Lambo) The tight angles would make for harder reading. The reg plate is the spot to aim for with a car, as regards bikes, I don't know
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Now, I heard that your car can only be search by a Garda inside Dublin or by a Customs Official near a port of entry.
Now, I'd say thats different in relation to Drugs etc but for a traffic stop?
Whats the maximum distance a Garda is trained to pull a motorist? And do they factor elevation / cosine?
There is a lot of different legislation in relation to searching vehicles for different reasons, not just for DMR or customs. Every Garda can.
Max distance is 1500 metersYou right. In fact the same would be true with some sports cars (e.g. Lotus, Lambo) The tight angles would make for harder reading. The reg plate is the spot to aim for with a car, as regards bikes, I don't know
Same for everything....thats why we love to see trucks with CDs on the dash(it helps getting a reading). You can however get a reading from the front of a bike.
Radar was in use here, reference the hairdryer!, but that was point and shoot where as our present laser has a red dot so your 100% sure of the vehicle detected.0 -
Whats the maximum distance a Garda is trained to pull a motorist? And do they factor elevation / cosine?
Cosine error will ALWAYS work in the drivers favour:agent_smith wrote: »I remember watching a youtube video a while back (documentary if you will) that did an experiment with the ultralyte laser detectors. They claimed that they are not the best mechanism for catching motorcycles and that radar are more accurate particularyl for sports bikes. Sports bikes (due to their aerodynamic angles ) can and do give false readings even at standstill. They demoed an ultralyte recieving a false reading of 30kph from a GSXR from standstill I beleive the phenominon is called slip drift. Another problem is that the arrow like shape of sport bike fairings means you can get other false readings such as a multiplier effect from passing motorists! Only accurate way I believe to read a motorcycles speed is via rear number plate or the back of the rider. Please correct me on this if my understanding is wrong...
What your referring to is known as the 'Slip Effect' or 'Panning error'.
Cases have been won by motorists in the UK and the US regarding this issue. I personally have been able to replicate said effect again a shed wall and a car doing 20mph into 48mph with a simple flick of the wrist about the size of a hair!! The E03 error on the LTIs is meant to cater for this panning error but its possible to alter a speed reading even if you don't mean to:
e.g Garda using Ultralytes WITHOUT Tripod & Shoulder Stock are seriously opening the gates for INNOCENT motorists to wrongful prosecution.:eek:You right. In fact the same would be true with some sports cars (e.g. Lotus, Lambo) The tight angles would make for harder reading. The reg plate is the spot to aim for with a car, as regards bikes, I don't know
Centre mass grill area tends to be the best method for this as aiming at the windscreen won't get enough info back to the gun as other areas of the vehicle.
Basically how as you know they work on the 904 - 905nm spectrum (licence free) but it does much more than shoot out a ray of light!!! Light coloured cars (wite,red,silver) will always be easier to target over a black one because there close to the spectrum....
The gun spits out a 100 or so pulses of light at the car, it needs to find a reflective part of the car to spit back the pulses within the required window time other wise the LTI spits an Error...using the plate is common practive due to the reflectivity. The Gun take a number or readings based on the return of pulses between the car and the recieving lenses on the LTI and its onboard computer calculates the reading simple as:
SPEED = DISTANCE / TIMEnice guy always wrote: »
Max distance is 1500 meters
1500metres is a tad optimistic in fairness :pac:
I certainly hope that you or your colleagues are NOT targeting cars at 1500metres at that distance a LIDAR beam width is over 4.5 metres which would get take pulses from a speeding car instead of the non speeding car if the 2 fell into the same path!
Even at the advertised 1000 metres max on the Ultralyte1000 and Ultralyte100LR the beam is 2.8 metres!!nice guy always wrote: »Same for everything....thats why we love to see trucks with CDs on the dash(it helps getting a reading). You can however get a reading from the front of a bike.
I don't see how the CD would get a quicker reading seen as you wouldn't (not good practice) even be aiming at the windscreen of a vehicle as that actually slows down the return of pulses to the LTInice guy always wrote: »
Radar was in use here, reference the hairdryer!, but that was point and shoot where as our present laser has a red dot so your 100% sure of the vehicle detected.
If your targeting cars at 1500ft you guys may as well be using RADAR!! LOL :P
After the reading required the officer on the gun the garda had to pin point the speeding car of the 2 as the beam divergence was a hell of alot larger than that of LIDAR and required abit of guess work.0 -
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eringobragh wrote: »
1500metres is a tad optimistic in fairness :pac:
I certainly hope that you or your colleagues are NOT targeting cars at 1500metres at that distance a LIDAR beam width is over 4.5 metres which would get take pulses from a speeding car instead of the non speeding car if the 2 fell into the same path![
"world record for the longest-ever recorded and confirmed sniper kill at 2,430 meters"
Maybe the Gardai should join the marines 1500m is easy. No, but seriously, 1500m is a huge distace. Even 800m is a fair shot. I know it isn't comparable to a real round but the spread is about the same. 0 -
"world record for the longest-ever recorded and confirmed sniper kill at 2,430 meters"
Maybe the Gardai should join the marines 1500m is easy. No, but seriously, 1500m is a huge distace. Even 800m is a fair shot. I know it isn't comparable to a real round but the spread is about the same.
1500m is pretty risky from the prosecutions point of view imo.
600 - 800 should be the max..
The beam width at 800 metres is: 2.4 metres, still a far chunk of LIDAR but less risky 1500ft!!
The figures aren't out of thin air
Most LIDAR guns have between 2.5 - 3 milliradians beam divergence:
This is how to calculate the beam:
Milliradians Beam = W
Metres = X
Answer (cm) = Y
W=0.3
X=800
W (0.3) * X (800) = Y [240]
240cm = 2.4 metres (Width of Laser Beam @ 800 metres)0 -
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