Problems with shoto characters with fight stick

Retr0gamer

Just got my fight stick this morning and had a quick go of it. I'm finding charge characters an absolute breeze to use with it but I'm having trouble with shoto characters. Now I know I need a lot more practice with it, my dragon punch and fireball motions need some spit and polish, but I can't for the life of me pull off super or ultra moves. I keep doing bloody dragon punches thanks to that stupid dragon punch shortcut. It seems the only way I can pull it off is if I do the motion about 5 times in a row and even then I seem to be throwing out a fireball and then an ultra/super directly after it (which isn't all that bad ).

Anyone got any tips or am I just ****?

Doctor DooM

Sounds like you're hitting punch to early to me dude!

Retr0gamer

I think I might just need to get used to it and finding where forward is on the stick. I'm far too used to the saturn and sidewinder pads where you can be as rough as you like with the motions, I'll practice being smoother than james brown, see if that works.

CodeMonkey

Yeah, it does sound like you're hitting the punch too quick. I had the same problem with the fightpad. Googled it and came across people having the same problem and they were hitting punch too quickly when the dpad input at the forward down position and end up with ex dragon punch.

So I followed the advice and took my time and it seems to work out more consistently. Getting a lot less ex dragon punch after that. Worth a try.

ps: which stick you got? Madcatz TE?

Retr0gamer

Nope, wish I had the money for one Just the madcatz fightstick not the tournament edition. Seems quite nice, the joystick is nice and clicky with an 8 way gate it seems and the buttons aren't bad although not as good as sanwa parts.

Gummy Panda

my timing is off too on fightstick from fightpad. i just went into trainning mode and kept practicing.

Got my TE this morning. it is lovely. finally pulled off a consistent bison ultra

Retr0gamer

Okay so, back to the training mode for me for a while

Dreddybajs

Training mode + input display on should be all you need to fix these type of problems - modding an octo gate into your stick you might find easier over the long term too, though once you get used to doing it on a square gate you should have no problems.

Retr0gamer

Thanks, didn't even realise there was an input display.

L31mr0d

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Thanks, didn't even realise there was an input display.

yeah it's helped me loads in training. It also shows you how forgiving the system is of mistakes.

would love to get a stick, although I'm holding out now for the TE to come back in stock... somewhere that actually will ship it to Ireland :rolleyes:

Retr0gamer

Amazon seem to get them in regularly, it's where I got my fightstick.

Gummy Panda

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Amazon seem to get them in regularly, it's where I got my fightstick.

the TEs have been gameseek though.

The size of the box the TE comes in, no wonder shipping is expensive

CodeMonkey

I am thinking of buying the TE stick for ps3. Why won't gameseek delivery to ireland?

Retr0gamer

It's only the large packages it seems. They will deliver games and the fightpads but not the larger sticks.

Dreddybajs

Amazon.co.uk delivers electronics to ireland as of a month or two ago, it's where I ordered my SE from last week, got here in 3 days.

L3mir0d, I'd advise getting an SE and modding in Sanwa buttons rather than buying a TE, especially if this is your first stick - it's silly spending 200 quid on it when you could spend €90 on an SE and put Sanwa stuff in it for what would total to about €135.

Retr0gamer

Get an octo gate as well. The SE has a 4 way I've noticed contrary to my previous statement and it's pissing me off a bit.

I've improved marginally after another hour of training

K.O.Kiki

Heads-up; I've got 1 (or 2? must check inventory LOL) octogates for Sanwas spare; I think they'd even fit the stock SE stick's.

But, Square > Octo-gate for Seimitsu LS33/56* > Octo-gate for Sanwa JLF (the octo-gates are way different for these 2 manufacturers).

*(will not fit LS-32/40 )

Dreddybajs

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Get an octo gate as well. The SE has a 4 way

No it doesn't, it has a square gate. 4-way is for games like pacman, with no diagonals.

And saying "get an octo" as a matter of fact is silly - it's just personal preference. I prefer square gates to octo gates, and there's nothing stopping you from execution on either one.

Retr0gamer

Are you sure it's an octo? I only get resistance from mine in the diagonals but not in the straight directions.

On a related note, I'm getting the hang of it now. Dragon punches are still a bit iffy at times but the supers and ultras are fine. I was pressing the buttons too quickly and I'm finding forward instead of diagonal down forward a lot more.

K.O.Kiki

Microswitch-based joysticks use 4 microswitches (U,D,L,R). Diagonals are activated by hitting 2 microswitches at the same time.
What you seem to be confusing are simply that a 4-way "gate" would restrict the actuator from hitting diagonals AT ALL; what you're feeling is a square "gate" which distributes your inputs equally.

An octo-gate would make corners more pronounced, but also gives some extra precedence to U,D,L,R.


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NeoKubrick

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Microswitch-based joysticks use 4 microswitches (U,D,L,R). Diagonals are activated by hitting 2 microswitches at the same time.
What you seem to be confusing are simply that a 4-way "gate" would restrict the actuator from hitting diagonals AT ALL; what you're feeling is a square "gate" which distributes your inputs equally.

An octo-gate would make corners more pronounced, but also gives some extra precedence to U,D,L,R.


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So, I'd assume Square gates are superior? What, if any, gate is used on Xbox 360 and PS3 d-pads?

K.O.Kiki

NeoKubrick wrote: »

So, I'd assume Square gates are superior? What, if any, gate is used on Xbox 360 and PS3 d-pads?

Pads don't use gates, as their electrical connections are made with rubber dome keyswitches.

However, I guess I could compare Nintendo dpads to a good square gate, Sony dpad would be a slightly worse square gate, and MS dpad would be a really worn, saggy circular gate

NeoKubrick

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Pads don't use gates, as their electrical connections are made with rubber dome keyswitches.

However, I guess I could compare Nintendo dpads to a good square gate, Sony dpad would be a slightly worse square gate, and MS dpad would be a really worn, saggy circular gate

What makes Nintendo's dpad better than Xbox 360's? And is there any way you could possibly improve the dpad?

Dpad movement is very important in PES. I have a Madcatz Xbox 360 pad and though I find the dpad very good, it's a shoddy product, with fragile triggers and sometimes the dpad inputs all by itself. I also have the FightPad but at the moment, the dpad is extremely rigid which I hope gets looser in time like any decent woman. Have you tried the FightPad?

Retr0gamer

Well nintendo patented their d-pad design when they used it first in the game and watch series and it was so good that they stuck with it. Other companies unfortunately won't use it since it means paying nintendo for a license. Sega own the other only good d-pad design patents which meant when Sony and later MS decided to design theirs all the good designs were patented so we end up with one of the worst d-pads ever on the PS pads until the horrors of the 360 pad came about.

The PS d-pad is closer to the nintendo design while the 36- d-pad is an abortion of the floating d-pad used in the Saturn and megadrive 6 button pads and relies on pure optimism that the pad will register the correct direction you press it in.

I also really like the Nintendo analogue stick design far better than the competitors. They have a sort of octo gate built into them that has been patented while the others are missing this. It makes the analogue stick far more useable in 2D games.

I think it's just I'm used to the nintendo design but I'm definitely getting used to the square gate on the fight stick.

Oh and there is a very simple mode to improve the d-pad on the 360 pad:

http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Fix-the-d-pad-on-the-Xbox-360-control-pad-mor/

K.O.Kiki

Heh, I buy Madcatz 360 pads too.
Then I rip them open & discard all the unnecessary plastic

Improvements to 360 dpad:
Make it like a Saturn pad. Or the old MICROSOFT Sidewinder.
Or just make it so that inputs can never be missed due to its mushiness.

Haven't tried the Fightpad yet.

Retr0gamer

Why they don't use the old sidewinder design is beyond me. It's a fecking microsoft pad and also one of the greatest pads ever created.

The fight pad is a little disappointing. It may be a floating d-pad but it's no saturn pad. It's still a little inconsistent and takes time to get used to.

Also fuck you Sony for making 4 face buttons standard when the natural evolution was 6

NeoKubrick

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well nintendo patented their d-pad design when they used it first in the game and watch series and it was so good that they stuck with it. Other companies unfortunately won't use it since it means paying nintendo for a license. Sega own the other only good d-pad design patents which meant when Sony and later MS decided to design theirs all the good designs were patented so we end up with one of the worst d-pads ever on the PS pads until the horrors of the 360 pad came about.

The PS d-pad is closer to the nintendo design while the 36- d-pad is an abortion of the floating d-pad used in the Saturn and megadrive 6 button pads and relies on pure optimism that the pad will register the correct direction you press it in.

I also really like the Nintendo analogue stick design far better than the competitors. They have a sort of octo gate built into them that has been patented while the others are missing this. It makes the analogue stick far more useable in 2D games.

I think it's just I'm used to the nintendo design but I'm definitely getting used to the square gate on the fight stick.

Oh and there is a very simple mode to improve the d-pad on the 360 pad:

http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Fix-the-d-pad-on-the-Xbox-360-control-pad-mor/

I remember the octagon in the N64 pad. Thanks, Retro.

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Heh, I buy Madcatz 360 pads too.
Then I rip them open & discard all the unnecessary plastic

You forgot the bit where you sell your joystick on for a nice profit.

animaX

I recently got an octo gate for my hori stick and for me it makes a HUGE difference (shoto characters).

I feel that square gates are better for charge characters since you can rest the stick on the diagonals (thus charging). But as everyone says, its down to personal preference.

Retr0gamer

I'm getting used to the square gate but I think an octo gate would have been much easier to start with.

animaX

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm getting used to the square gate but I think an octo gate would have been much easier to start with.

Nothing to lose! They only cost around 10 euro to get and they are easy to swap in and out

CodeMonkey

Got my madcatz se stick friday. Have only played sf4 on and off for about 4-5 hours this weekend due to the good weather. Going from a pad to stick takes some getting used to and I used to play sf2 in the arcades so not a complete newbie.

My execution of combos have improved a lot using a stick as I find it easier to input commands faster without messing up the timing. So whiffing specials and ultras less and connecting combos more. Pretty impressed so far with the madcatz se stick Don't have any issues with it yet like the washer problems etc and if I do then I'll mod it with sanwa parts. I recommend it to people with the money and interest in improving their game.

Jim

Anyone know of any sites with them available? Amazon's resellers wont ship to Ireland.

Doctor DooM

Just got my SE. Need some time to readjust but I can see it making a huge, huge difference to my game. The shotos are definitely the hardest to adjust to though. It is nice being able to pop people out of the air with DPs again.

Dreddybajs

Jim wrote: »

Anyone know of any sites with them available? Amazon's resellers wont ship to Ireland.

Think your best bet would just be waiting til amazon get them back in themselves - that, or buy an EX2 in the meantime or something. There's not a whole lot else you can do otherwise, unfortunately.

L31mr0d

Was thinking about getting an SE then upgrading it until I seen this.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How_to_fix_a_Madcatz_Arcade_Fightstick_SE_and_Why/

Did he just get a bad stick or should I still get an SE and upgrade the parts? (was thinking about getting an Octo gate and switching between the 2 to see which I prefer)

randomchild

Just received my hori ex2 off ebay. Charge characters are so much easier now, although I still need more practice. I am pretty iffy on shotos still but I am sure that will come to me in time.

Dreddybajs

L31mr0d wrote: »

Was thinking about getting an SE then upgrading it until I seen this.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How_to_fix_a_Madcatz_Arcade_Fightstick_SE_and_Why/

Did he just get a bad stick or should I still get an SE and upgrade the parts? (was thinking about getting an Octo gate and switching between the 2 to see which I prefer)

The new batch of SEs have reportedly fixed this problem - my stick still wasn't perfect (loud squeaking sound while moving between two directions), and I switched it out, but the washer seemed glued down fine and replacing the stick seemed like a breeze judging by K.O. Kiki's handiwork. :pac:

While you still may want to switch parts out, this issue has apparently been fixed (though don't take my word as the absolute truth on this, I haven't researched it very extensively).

Overall the SE with the washer issue fixed is, imo, a very good quality stick.

randomchild: Congrats on the first stick! I'm still a little more consistent spamming out fireballs with an octo gate rather than a square, but it screws up my ability to do charge motions, personally I'm more comfortable with a square gate. Definitely try both out though, different strokes and all that.

Doctor DooM

L31mr0d wrote: »

Was thinking about getting an SE then upgrading it until I seen this.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How_to_fix_a_Madcatz_Arcade_Fightstick_SE_and_Why/

Did he just get a bad stick or should I still get an SE and upgrade the parts? (was thinking about getting an Octo gate and switching between the 2 to see which I prefer)

My SE has so far put up with about 10 hours of play and I'm quite hard on sticks. No sign of anything unusual or wrong. In fact, my play is starting to improve (I'm pulling off DPs much, much tighter)

Dreddybajs

And if that's in SF4, then by next year you should be able to pull off a reversal DP in ST! :pac:

(I keed, I keed)

CodeMonkey

L31mr0d wrote: »

Was thinking about getting an SE then upgrading it until I seen this.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How_to_fix_a_Madcatz_Arcade_Fightstick_SE_and_Why/

Did he just get a bad stick or should I still get an SE and upgrade the parts? (was thinking about getting an Octo gate and switching between the 2 to see which I prefer)

I read that before I bought mine and it didn't stop me. Haven't notice anything unusual like the joystick sticking which means there should be no washer problem in mine.

I got my SE from amazon and I assume it's one from the new batch which is meant to have this problem fixed. Didn't want to pay more for the TE or wait for it to be in stock again.

You probably don't have to worry even if you got an old one with the problem if you are going to upgrade it anyway. Unless you think the upgrade might be too finicky from that blog.