Lebron "king" james.

busted flush

I don't know about the rest of you guys but this guy to me is the real deal! He could arguably be better than Jordan was . I just think he is at the wrong team, but Cleveland are hardly ever going to let him go . He is there franchise player!
comments.

Xrox

Im sorry he is just yet another pretender to the throne just like Kobe before them yes at the moment he is putting up good number but as was shown against the magic in game one, he is incapable of doing what Jordan did before him.

Yes jordan put up great numbers in every stat but what made him so great is he took a bulls team that was a waste of space and improved everything to do with it, he made players better he inspired these bums he played with and turned them into ledgends.

The bulls were nobodies before jordan and are nobodies yet again.

So please come back to me when Lebron " The Court Jester " James can win a championship AT WILL!!!

Lafortezza

The bulls were not nobodys, Pippen was amazing, incredible defender and perfect partner for Jordan. Rodman was an allstar defender and one of the best ever rebounders. Kerr and Paxson were very good from 3pt land especially with the open looks they got when opposition teams doubled Jordan or helped on Pippen. Ron harper, Luke Longley, and the rest of the players while they may not have been stars were solid.

Most importantly the coaching of PJackson and the willingness of the role players to play as a team in support of Jordan meant they were a dominating team. They say defence wins championships, the Bulls were among the best ever, and MJ couldn't guard 5 players on his own now could he?

LeBron is probably the closest to Jordan in terms of physical skills. For Jordans size he was incredibly quick and strong, the same goes for LBJ. What brought MJ to be the greatest ever was his mental strength. He just refused to let others decide the outcome of games.

LBJ has yet to show this killer instinct, but he's only 25 or something at this stage of his career. Plenty of time yet.

Xrox

lafortezza wrote: »

The bulls were not nobodys, Pippen was amazing, incredible defender and perfect partner for Jordan. Rodman was an allstar defender and one of the best ever rebounders. Kerr and Paxson were very good from 3pt land especially with the open looks they got when opposition teams doubled Jordan or helped on Pippen. Ron harper, Luke Longley, and the rest of the players while they may not have been stars were solid.

Most importantly the coaching of PJackson and the willingness of the role players to play as a team in support of Jordan meant they were a dominating team. They say defence wins championships, the Bulls were among the best ever, and MJ couldn't guard 5 players on his own now could he?

LeBron is probably the closest to Jordan in terms of physical skills. For Jordans size he was incredibly quick and strong, the same goes for LBJ. What brought MJ to be the greatest ever was his mental strength. He just refused to let others decide the outcome of games.

LBJ has yet to show this killer instinct, but he's only 25 or something at this stage of his career. Plenty of time yet.

Pre-jordan did you even know who Pippen was???? Did you hear about him while he was in college??? No cos no one did!! He didnt even get recruited by a college team he was working as the team manger till i think his second year in colege and remeber pippen joined the league 3 years after jordan so the bulls had nothing pre jordan.

Rodman who had already 2 rings with the Pistons came in years after Jordan started winning rings with nobody around him he made players like Pippen a nobody from Central Arkansas into a player.

If all these players were so good, if this bulls team was so great that was built around him how many rings did they win in the years he was not playing? Cos of Retirement?

Jordan Done what none of these pretenders to the throne have done and i doubt will ever do win multiple rings with no bodies around him.

Yes The Jester James is the closest since Kobe but even shaq called kobe out on this and said he would never be dominant in the playoffs without him and im sorry shaq has been right so far.

Labron i hope can become good enough to maybe win 2 or 3 rings in his career but that would im sorry only raise him to the level of historic player but he would still be on a level below, Magic, below Bird, below Wilt, below Kareem and not even close to how much Jordan has achieved.

Jordan was, is and always will be in a class of his own cos he could make any team Win At Will!!!

The only mistake he made was the reinvention of "Air" Jordan as "floor" Jordan when he tried to save his investment by coming out of retirement to play for the wizzards. But even then he managed to turn a few nobodies into players ....Rip Hamilton

Kinetic^

Steve Kerr? Toni Kukoc? Ron Harper?

Seriously, stop spouting crap.

He's not better then Jordan, yet. He could be though, just not yet.

Xrox

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Steve Kerr? Toni Kukoc? Ron Harper?

Seriously, stop spouting crap.

He's not better then Jordan, yet. He could be though, just not yet.

Nice someone at last that actually might have seen these guys play and wasnt born in th 90's, Cheers K.

I agree he may become good in the future but even with the extra years he will have played because he didnt do college or cos nobody killed his dad, im sure he wont achieve as much as jordan has!

Lafortezza

Xrox wrote: »

I agree he may become good in the future

So you don't think he's good now? Is he in the top 3, top 10?

If MJ could win titles "at will" why did it take him 6 years with the Bulls to win his first one? Even when he retired the Bulls won 55 games in the regular season, led by Pippen, and then only lost in 7 games vs the Knicks. See how well the Lakers would do if you removed Kobe for a season, or Dirk from the Mavs, or Wade from the Heat. Do you think any of those teams would make the playoffs? So obviously Jordan had a great supporting cast. Jordan is in the HOF, Pippen and possibly Rodman will make the Hall of Fame.
He also had the greatest coach basketball has ever seen calling plays and getting the Bulls to play as a well oiled machine.


Similarly when Kobe won his 3 rings he did it playing alongside Shaq, LeBron has Ilgauskas, see the disparity?
LeBron has no stars to help him out on his team. Mo Williams is a shooter who has trouble creating his own shot, he can't take over a game, the same goes for West, Ilgauskas, and the rest of the Cavs. The Cavs don't get a sniff of the playoffs without James, showing how dominant and valuable he is.


This page calculate all game stats to show who is most valuable in terms of getting their teams a win. Who is on top?
Check out the statistics for this years playoffs. LeBron is miles above everyone else, as a result the Cavs have swept the Pistons and Atlanta.


Nobody is denying that MJ was the greatest ever, but LeBron is the closest yet to achieving the same level of dominance.
Your posts reek of an ignorance about what makes a good basketball player great.

Stab*City

There will never be another MJ people.. Basketball is a team sport and as you have all agreed MJ made the bulls a better team. Dont forget that jordan has 6 rings, 1 ncaa championship, Numerous defensive player and mvp titles. Lebron has alot of catching up to do.. But i do love LBJ he is well on his way to maybe becoming one of the top ten to ever play in the nba or even the second best. But there will ever only be one Michael "AIR" Jordan.

Dont forget players like:
Magic
Larry
Isiah
Dr. J
Wilt
Kareem
George Mikan
Bob Cousy
Bill Russell
Jerry West
Willis Reed
Pete Maravich
Earl Monroe
Barkley

etc, etc, etc..

PS

I like the nickname "king" for lebron as there have been many kings of the nba before him and there will be many more like him..
But come on now Mike Vs Lebron is a no brainer.. Just like Mike Vs all the other "kings"

Like Mike.. If I could be like Mike.

Sea Devils

You could argue that the Bulls would have 8 straight if Jordan doesn't retire for Baseball.

Xrox

In Jordans defense he didnt retire cos of baseball he only played it as his father loved it and was tragically murdered so it was a tribute to him to try and suceed at it.

Yes the wizards move was a bad end to the best career in the NBA ever but he is a keen business man and he knew it would bolster that franchise, and make him a mint.

As for Pippen's bulls losing in 7 games to the knick come on man do you not remember your talking about the knicks as has been team that jordan used to love to toy with.

Lebron is good but as like kobe before him in another 5 to 10 years therell be some fella who has forgotten all before him who will be touting someone as the next Jordan the next greatest the second coming. They wont be saying he is the next kobe or next lebron as im sorry they will fall into the nba great section yes but not reach the heights of a god like jordan.

lebron james

Xrox wrote: »

Lebron is good but as like kobe before him in another 5 to 10 years therell be some fella who has forgotten all before him who will be touting someone as the next Jordan the next greatest the second coming. They wont be saying he is the next kobe or next lebron as im sorry they will fall into the nba great section yes but not reach the heights of a god like jordan.

I agree with the Kobe comment but lebron is only 24 and is only getting better and better! I loved Jordan too and i think his crown will be hard to take but if any one can lebron can!

raven136

LBJ is only 24 and surely is way off his peak yet.Also isnt it really hard to compare players from different eras.Cant say the Cavs are better than the bulls of Jordan.
So what that Pippen wasnt highly rated(although thats debatable as he was drafted 5th in the first round).Neither was Tom Brady.Pippen is the all time bull for 3 points and ranks second in 12 other catergories.LBJ doesnt have teammates at that level.

What about the argument that Jordan isnt even the greatest and its Chamberlin?

Impossible to ever find any kind of consensus.

Xrox

On the wilt point if you ask him and he has been asked who is the greatest player ever even he himself with his massive ego say one name and one name only Jordan! The man who got Player of the Century ..... Jordan!

Kinetic^

Jordan & Pippen were like Gene Wilder & Richard Pryor - while the did ok as solo acts, when they worked together magic would happen.

eagle eye

Jeebus I missed this today.

MJ is still the greatest, I started a thread a couple of months where I said that I personally think that LeBron could challenge him for that crown in time. He is on track to do it at his young age.

For me Kobe doesn't rate close to Jordan. The closest is Bird imo and he is a long way off the greatest to ever play the game.

The Cavs as a team without LBJ are not close to the Bulls without Jordan. Players like Pippen who was a class act in his own right and then for the last couple of years Denis Rodman are far ahead of anything that the Cavs have. I'm fully in agreement with Lafortezza here and its yet to be decided but if James gets a team remotely close to that of the great Bulls then he will do serious damage.

Carcharodon

Discussed this a while back and I was of the opinion that MJ is the best ever and will remain so.
It is too hard to compare players as there are too many variables to consider. One thing we can do when both careers are over is compare achievements, even then it can be hard to get everyone to agree.
Its all about opinions and people will always have different ones.

I think we should not try and compare them too much and just try and appreciate them for the great players they are. I think people should not judge everything LeBron does and compare it to Jordan, just accept him as a phenomenal talent and exceptional player that will go down as one of the greatest.
The media do a great job at hyping it up and comparing LeBron, Kobe to Jordan, it is only natural to do so in some respects but we should just try and accept them for their great talents in their own right.

eagle eye

Xrox wrote: »

Im sorry he is just yet another pretender to the throne just like Kobe before them yes at the moment he is putting up good number but as was shown against the magic in game one, he is incapable of doing what Jordan did before him.

I would hazard a guess that you didn't see that Bulls team and only know what you've read and theres a lot of stuff about Jordan and most of it overdoes how great the man was, and he was the best that ever played the game by some way. To say that he won those championships on his own is ridiculous. Anyways enough of that for now, just one thing though, you do know that Jordan faced Larry Bird one night and scored 63 points I think it was and still lost to that great Celtics team.

Anyways for now just stick this one in your pipe and smoke it. As Jordanesque as it gets, LeBron reminds me so much of the great man and he is still only 24 years old. Oh and by the way Jordan was 28 when he won his first NBA championsip.

busted flush

eagle eye wrote: »

As Jordanesque as it gets, LeBron reminds me so much of the great man and he is still only 24 years old. Oh and by the way Jordan was 28 when he won his first NBA championsip

Dam i was going to make this point! Lebron is going to do all that Jordan did and more!

Xrox

eagle eye wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that you didn't see that Bulls team and only know what you've read and theres a lot of stuff about Jordan and most of it overdoes how great the man was, and he was the best that ever played the game by some way. To say that he won those championships on his own is ridiculous. Anyways enough of that for now, just one thing though, you do know that Jordan faced Larry Bird one night and scored 63 points I think it was and still lost to that great Celtics team.

Anyways for now just stick this one in your pipe and smoke it. As Jordanesque as it gets,As Jordanesque as it gets, LeBron reminds me so much of the great man and he is still only 24 years old. Oh and by the way Jordan was 28 when he won his first NBA championsip.

Actually i have been around long enough to watch jordan as far back as 89 before then i was too young to stay up till 5 in the morning watching NBA games on the good old german satilite channel of DSF sports. So no i wasnt lucky enough to see him play live in front of me but yes i have watched NBA basketball for 20 years now.

As for jordan being 28 the option of skipping college back in his day wasnt really an option so he started in the league alot later than Lebron did so the matter of age is not comparable.

Ive seen and met Kobe, picked up a cavs game with lebron playing albeit againts golden state and very early in his carrier met lots of players and was fortunate to see them play in front of me and as ive said yes Lebron is a good player and i watched the game you put the clip up of last night at 2 in the morning as will i stay up to watch tonights game and yes that was a great shot.

Very like jordan but i dont see you posting a video of game one where he threw the game away by giving up the ball to someone else! and oh wait they lost to the magic a team that lives and dies by the three so a little bit of guard defense on the 3 point line and they would of spanked the magic.

The proof of Lebron as a good player will be when they meet the nuggets in the next round when he goes against a team not a bunch of indivduals but a team of strong tallent and not one or 2 stars. (yes i did say nuggets next round as i think kobe's lakers have a hill to climb being 1-1 and the next 3 games at home for the nuggets)

But the proof of him as a great player (not the greatest but great) will be to come back and do it all again next year he has to prove he can bring it year in year out, with no excuses.

Stab*City

busted flush wrote: »

Dam i was going to make this point! Lebron is going to do all that Jordan did and more!

Not really a valid point though as its pure speculation.. I didnt know you could see into the future!?!

Sea Devils

Xrox wrote: »

as i think kobe's lakers have a hill to climb being 1-1 and the next 3 games at home for the nuggets)

.

That was an excellent post and all but this part is incorrect. The Nuggets have the next two games at home before going back to LA for game 5, then if goes to a game 6 the series shifts to Denver. LA will then host a game 7 should it come to that stage.

Xrox

Sea Devils wrote: »

That was an excellent post and all but this part is incorrect. The Nuggets have the next two games at home before going back to LA for game 5, then if goes to a game 6 the series shifts to Denver. LA will then host a game 7 should it come to that stage.

Ha ha my bad thanks for the correction all these late nights watching ball are taking there toll but it has to be done

Sea Devils

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtcFwKt8wuU

busted flush

Xrox wrote: »

But the proof of him as a great player (not the greatest but great) will be to come back and do it all again next year he has to prove he can bring it year in year out, with no excuses.

Very very fair point and i for one think that he will do exactly that!

jimmay

Just came across this LBJ interview from last month

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh6vfS1L0e4

I'm now definitely under the impression that he will leave Cleveland in 2010 because he wants to become the first 'billionaire brand' athlete :eek: I think his team will figure that won't be possible staying in Cleveland.
However I don't think he'd leave before he got Cleveland a championship

Xrox

He's been linked with the knicks ever since he was drafted, the knicks is a massive market second only to LA in the potential money that it could make this kid and i dont think he would join the clippers and kobe wont be going anywhere for a while. So id say if he wins this year then hell see if he can get 2 in a row, basically hang around till the streak ends but if they dont win hell be gone probably after next season if not sooner.

Xrox

Just watched this on ABC and thought it was funny Kobe breaking Lebrons balls ha ha and its a lebron ad! go figure :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFPPC_mG7sc

therokerroar

How is the NBA championship going this year?

Whos left in it?

Xrox

therokerroar wrote: »

How is the NBA championship going this year?

Whos left in it?

this is a Lebron thread but if you want to keep up to date check out this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055540363 or nba.com of course.:P

jimmay

I agree about NY or even possibly the Nets (we know he's best buds with Jay-Z, and they're moving/due to move to Brooklyn) so that's another possibility. But I don't think he would leave Cavs untill he got them at least one. He was born and raised and lived his entire life in Cleveland, the Cavs haven't had a championship ever and I reckon he would remain loyal untill that was achieved. If he wants to become the 1st 'billionaire balla' then for his sake he better get it done this year or next!!

therokerroar

Xrox wrote: »

this is a Lebron thread but if you want to keep up to date check out this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055540363 or nba.com of course.:P

Cheers mate, new to this and only finding my feet

eagle eye

Xrox wrote: »

Actually i have been around long enough to watch jordan as far back as 89 before then i was too young to stay up till 5 in the morning watching NBA games on the good old german satilite channel of DSF sports. So no i wasnt lucky enough to see him play live in front of me but yes i have watched NBA basketball for 20 years now.

As for jordan being 28 the option of skipping college back in his day wasnt really an option so he started in the league alot later than Lebron did so the matter of age is not comparable.

Ive seen and met Kobe, picked up a cavs game with lebron playing albeit againts golden state and very early in his carrier met lots of players and was fortunate to see them play in front of me and as ive said yes Lebron is a good player and i watched the game you put the clip up of last night at 2 in the morning as will i stay up to watch tonights game and yes that was a great shot.

Very like jordan but i dont see you posting a video of game one where he threw the game away by giving up the ball to someone else! and oh wait they lost to the magic a team that lives and dies by the three so a little bit of guard defense on the 3 point line and they would of spanked the magic.

The proof of Lebron as a good player will be when they meet the nuggets in the next round when he goes against a team not a bunch of indivduals but a team of strong tallent and not one or 2 stars. (yes i did say nuggets next round as i think kobe's lakers have a hill to climb being 1-1 and the next 3 games at home for the nuggets)

But the proof of him as a great player (not the greatest but great) will be to come back and do it all again next year he has to prove he can bring it year in year out, with no excuses.

Ok lets clear this matter up first. As far as the teams go, LeBron's Cavs are not nearly as strong relative to the rest of the league as Jordan's Bulls were.
I'm talking about when you take out LBJ and MJ.
Now LeBron is in his 5th year I think, and Jordan was in his 7th in the NBA when he won his first title. If LeBron wins a title with this bunch its incredible, but if he moves on to New York I can guarantee he will have a team put round him to rival that Bull's team. Thats when you can compare them rings wise.
But purely as a player I think he is every bit as good as Jordan, of course MJ's longevity has still to be matched but if you go by PER ratings he has already achieved the fourth highest season rating ever and the top three are held by MJ. He is no.3 on the career ratings at this stage behind MJ and Shaq. There are problems with the PER rating system but its by far the best rating system that has been devised so far in Basketball.
Funnily the problems are on the defensive side and its claimed that not enough credit is given to defenders but I think Jordan and James don't suffer if you improve that end of the rating, they might actually improve.
I just think that this rating is what will determine just how good he was at the end of his career.

Sea Devils

jimmay wrote: »

I'm now definitely under the impression that he will leave Cleveland in 2010 because he wants to become the first 'billionaire brand' athlete :eek: I think his team will figure that won't be possible staying in Cleveland.
However I don't think he'd leave before he got Cleveland a championship

The problem that Cleveland has is that they don't have much in the way of a low post threat. Ilgauskas is a solid post up player, but if he's in the post, then the lane gets clogged for LeBron. LeBron is unique in the respect that his game is predicated on two ultra-ultra developed skills...which is getting to the basket and finishing or passing to an open teammate. He's the best finisher in the league and one of the best passers.

However, Cleveland's attack is one that comes from outside-in, instead of inside out. That's the reason that I think Cleveland's going to run into trouble until either LeBron develops a killer jump shot (which would allow for a low post threat to do his thing), his own postup game (which would allow their offense to run from inside-out), or the team has an absolutely dominant defense that can make up for an inconsistent offense. But I don't think they can have a dominant defense with two small guards in the backcourt and no real shot blockers inside.

This Cavs team reminds of the 90's Bulls in terms of how they're constructed, but the difference is...MJ was a legit post threat, and their offense was consistent because of that. It's very hard to win in this league without your offense having someone who can go to work down low. Even last year's Celtics had Garnett.

eagle eye

The Bull's team for Jordan's return was savage. You still had Pippen and Kerr, Kukoc was with them a couple of years, then Rodman and Longley were added. Oh and I almost forgot Steve Harper.

I was going to start comparing the two teams but I think the line ups, well I'm really talking about the second Bull's team more than the first but anyways.

Bulls

---

Cavs

Jordan

---

James
Pippen

---

Williams
Kukoc

---

Varejao
Longley

---

Ilgauskas
Rodman

---

West


Then you got Harper and Kerr to come in. Savage team for the Bulls. I think they are miles ahead.

jimmay

No way not now, not yet! You can't compare the Cavs to the Bulls! The only reason this is being done is the whole LBJ v MJ.
I think if/when Lebron moves and he gets a legit side superstar name with him, you'll see more comparison.

Xrox

Brilliant game tonight but im sorry to say Lebron threw the game away for the Cavs he just about managed to get them into over time nearly missing the second freethrow, but he made it.

But the in overtime he goes and throws the ball straight out of bounds off a no look pass, tries to bounce pass in the paint thru 3 magic players, throws the ball straight to Alston on the break 3 unforced turn overs then comes down and airballs it on a three with the 24 second clock expiring. Then gets blocked by Howard causing a jump ball.

If he had converted any of those oppertunities at the very least it would of lead to another OT.

What really killed them is they got to over time by Lebron sharing the ball and the work load for the first time in the series and his team stepped up there game as a result but in over time he went completely away from that to a Lebron against the whole magic team.

The boy is good but he made too many brain farts in OT.

eagle eye

Well for all his mistakes he still almost go it done at the buzzer in ot. And his defense tonight was just awesome.

Xrox

I totally agree he was awesome but its the little things that separate good even great players from the greatest!

Now if he manages to get past the magic in this series i.e. winning 3 on the trot that would put him well on his way to earning the title of being a great player which he was handed before he even got to the league.

But you got to agree what a game!

jimmay

Yep when magic went up by 6 in OT I thought it's over...then he drains a 3...lewis missed a free through...and he still nearly won it...incredible player

Brien

Jaysus!!!!!!!!!!

lebron james

jimmay wrote: »

Yep when magic went up by 6 in OT I thought it's over...then he drains a 3...lewis missed a free through...and he still nearly won it...incredible player

The man is a one man team, we would have won tonight if he was not so selfless!

Xrox

eagle eye wrote: »

The Bull's team for Jordan's return was savage. You still had Pippen and Kerr, Kukoc was with them a couple of years, then Rodman and Longley were added. Oh and I almost forgot Steve Harper.

I was going to start comparing the two teams but I think the line ups, well I'm really talking about the second Bull's team more than the first but anyways.

Bulls

---

Cavs

Jordan

---

James
Pippen

---

Williams
Kukoc

---

Varejao
Longley

---

Ilgauskas
Rodman

---

West


Then you got Harper and Kerr to come in. Savage team for the Bulls. I think they are miles ahead.

Yes granted jordans team he had for his second three-peat was a power house of role players and a matured Pippen but jordan won his first Ring with this line up..

Bulls

---

Cavs
10 B.J. Armstrong

---

1 Daniel Gibson
24 Bill Cartwright

---

21 J.J. Hickson
54 Horace Grant

---

11 Zydrunas Ilgauskas
14 Craig Hodges

---

00 Darnell Jackson
2 Dennis Hopson

---

23 LeBron James
23 Michael Jordan

---

8 Tarence Kinsey
34 Stacey King

---

3 Aleksandar Pavlovic
53 Cliff Levingston

---

32 Joe Smith
5 John Paxson

---

10 Wally Szczerbiak
32 Will Perdue

---

17 Anderson Varejao
33 Scottie Pippen

---

4 Ben Wallace - C
42 Scott Williams

---

13 Delonte West

---

31 Jawad Williams

---

2 Mo Williams

---

55 Lorenzen Wright

Taking the bulls starting line up of Jordan, Pippen, Grant, Paxson and Cartwright and comparing them with the Cavs of James, Williams, West, Ilgauskas and Varejao i think these 2 line ups are evenly matched for the most part with maybe even the cavs piping it.

Obviously Jordan gets compared to Lebron and even if you leave them at a tie since were comparing teams around them.

Compare Pippen to Williams and a younger Pippen (and not the legend he grew to be) wins it just about as he averaged 6 more points than williams has so far this year in the playoffs but they are fairly similar in other ways stats wise at this point in their careers.

Match up Paxson and West's numbers are far superior (even if compared to armstrong west still out does him)

Compare Grant to Ilgauskas and they are also pretty much even with Grant having a higher average points by 2 but Iggy giving you more blocked shots and better defense.

The were left with Varejao compared to Cartwright and they seem to be fairly even maybe with Varejao pipping it with his ability to gaurd outside the paint.

So i hope this dismisses the myth that the team Jordan first won a ring with was far superior to James's current team id say they are about even but even if they are not the 91 bulls were in no way the superstars people have being making out they are.

So if he needs a bunch of superstars around him like most have touted here im sorry to say he is still inferior to Jordan as he didnt have a great supporting cast when he won his first few rings

eagle eye

Xrox wrote: »

So if he needs a bunch of superstars around him like most have touted here im sorry to say he is still inferior to Jordan as he didnt have a great supporting cast when he won his first few rings

No, you just don't get it do you. Nobody is saying that LeBron is on MJ's level yet, it will take a career or most of it to make that level. We are saying that he is the guy who can do it.

Now simply comparing stats is not enough when you are judging the teams around each player. You also have to take into account the average team standard of basketball in the NBA at the time.

The standard of your average basketballer today is a lot higher than it was back in the late eighties and early nineties. You have to compare those teams to those around them and that Bulls team was a far stronger compared to those around them that this present Cavs team.

If you took LeBron out of that team they would struggle in a series with the Oklahoma Thunder.

Xrox

The Average player and team are better now today!!! who are you kidding listed below is the first 8 teams and the players they had and im sorry to tell you Jordan's bulls wouldnt of made the playoffs (would of lost to the clippers in a game!) without him much like Lebrons supporting cast. Remeber Jordan wasnt a legend at this stage much like Lebron isnt now the only difference is jordan went on to win 3 in a row with a team that at that stage wouldnt get out of the regular season.

Now heres just a few of those below par teams (by todays standards according to you) and no i didnt pick the top 5 or 8 went alphabetically off the top of my head i could of listed Ewings Knicks, Curry and Gills Hornets, the Suns at the time, the Jazz at the time....

Detroit off 2 straight nba championships a team with Dumars, Lamber, Thomas, Rodman, Salley.

Boston a team with Bird, Mchale, Parish, and Brown.

Atlanta a team with Wilkins, Augmon, and Cheeks.

Nuggets with the outstanding duo of Mutumbo and Abdul-auf.

Warriors with Elle, Hardaway, Mullins and Ritchmond.

Rockets with Kenny smith and Olajuwon.

Pacers with Miller, Schriempf, Rik Smits and Chuck Person.

Lakers with Campbell, Divac, Scott, Perkins, Green and Magic.

Im sorry but i think you need a reality check if you think the teams today are all round better than these teams. Like WTF!!!

So all that said and teams in the leagues at this time compared and the rosters around the players compared i would say that both Jordan and Lebron had simliar strength teams in a similarly ranked league...

Eventho Jordan was coming up against all round stronger teams, teams built around Stars like Magic Bird, Ewing, Malone ill let all that slide for the sake of the discussion and say that the teams then were level with the ones today.

....The only difference is Jordan took his team to the Three-peat and Lebron right now having the same chances and up against the same odds looks to be heading out of the play offs on the next game.

(before you start i have not compared Jordan the Legend against Lebron the up and comer above they are compared at similar stages in their career and even giving Lebron another year or two I doubt hell win one ring never mind 3 in a row)

Sea Devils

Xrox wrote: »

Warriors with Elle, Hardaway, Mullins and Ritchmond.

)

God I miss that Run TMC group. Mullin is actually my favourite Warrior of all time (from a player's perspective). Just a pity that Nellie had to break it up by trading Ritchmond to Sacramento for Billy Owens which ranks along one of the most inauspicious moves by this Franchise:(

evil_seed

Brien wrote: »

Jaysus!!!!!!!!!!

and i'll raise you :D

Why are people calling him LBJ. Its LJ afaic. :P

Stab*City

no it lbj

jimmay

I found a video of him interviewed here

Apparently he's getting a bit of a backlash for not shaking hands or dealing with reporters.

There's a poll on that link that asks what is your opinion of LBJ after this. I was one of the 4% that has improved and I'll say why.

1) It shows he's human and has a flaw, if that's what you want to call it
2) We don't know what he was thinking, he may have ended up going on a mad one about his teammates (remember Howard about Van Gundy in the Celts series) and that wouldn't have been good for the team
3) He got emotional, as that writer said in his own words "LeBron is clearly the best player of his generation" and that is alot of pressure to deal with, going out of the NBA conference finals.
4) He was teammates with Howard on the US olympic squad and there maybe more to this story than we know. I remember Howard throwing an elbow or 2 at some players on the Cavs throughout the series.
5) I could go on but seriously he's what 24 and I think big deal, I'd rather see him act like that and show his true feelings than get up on the podium and be like "yes well done orlando". He may well do soon, but couldn't or didn't want to yet.

LBJ 4 president haha

eagle eye

Xrox wrote: »

The Average player and team are better now today!!! who are you kidding listed below is the first 8 teams and the players they had and im sorry to tell you Jordan's bulls wouldnt of made the playoffs (would of lost to the clippers in a game!) without him much like Lebrons supporting cast. Remeber Jordan wasnt a legend at this stage much like Lebron isnt now the only difference is jordan went on to win 3 in a row with a team that at that stage wouldnt get out of the regular season.

Now heres just a few of those below par teams (by todays standards according to you) and no i didnt pick the top 5 or 8 went alphabetically off the top of my head i could of listed Ewings Knicks, Curry and Gills Hornets, the Suns at the time, the Jazz at the time....

Detroit off 2 straight nba championships a team with Dumars, Lamber, Thomas, Rodman, Salley.

Boston a team with Bird, Mchale, Parish, and Brown.

Atlanta a team with Wilkins, Augmon, and Cheeks.

Nuggets with the outstanding duo of Mutumbo and Abdul-auf.

Warriors with Elle, Hardaway, Mullins and Ritchmond.

Rockets with Kenny smith and Olajuwon.

Pacers with Miller, Schriempf, Rik Smits and Chuck Person.

Lakers with Campbell, Divac, Scott, Perkins, Green and Magic.

Im sorry but i think you need a reality check if you think the teams today are all round better than these teams. Like WTF!!!

So all that said and teams in the leagues at this time compared and the rosters around the players compared i would say that both Jordan and Lebron had simliar strength teams in a similarly ranked league...

Eventho Jordan was coming up against all round stronger teams, teams built around Stars like Magic Bird, Ewing, Malone ill let all that slide for the sake of the discussion and say that the teams then were level with the ones today.

....The only difference is Jordan took his team to the Three-peat and Lebron right now having the same chances and up against the same odds looks to be heading out of the play offs on the next game.

(before you start i have not compared Jordan the Legend against Lebron the up and comer above they are compared at similar stages in their career and even giving Lebron another year or two I doubt hell win one ring never mind 3 in a row)

I just seen this now.
I said that the average team today is better. I didn't say that the average team today is better than the NBA Champions of any era. Don't twist my words into something I did not say.
Its much tougher at the top now. We've had 7 different teams in the finals over the past five years including this year and the winners this year will be the fourth different winner in five years. Thats very unusual of you look at the history of the NBA.
Look at the period of the Bulls second 3 in a row, the Jazz and the Rockets were miles ahead of anybody else bar the bulls. The Rockets ended up winning the two titles in between MJ's six.
Look at the eighties and it was always either the Lakers or Celtics with one title thrown in for the 76ers and Dr J. Then the Pistons got on top at the very end of the decade and then came the Bulls for 3, Rockets for 2, Bulls back for 3. And theres the eighties and nineties out of the way.
Thats four teams dominating two decades. Just to remind you again, we are now looking at our fourth different champions in five years.

The Lakers just scraped by the Rockets who were missing McGrady all season and lost Yao in the playoffs. The Nuggets gave the Lakers a real fright and could/imo should have beaten them. The Magic just scraped by the KG less Celtics. The Celtics just scraped by the Bulls.

This is how tight the game has become. Every team has top, top playmakers now.

Match right now with any period in history and tell me when we had a depth of top class talent to match right now.

James, Bryant, Wade, Howard, Paul, Anthony, Billups, Rose, Iverson, McGrady, Ming, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Duncan, Stoudamire, Nash, Carter, Shaq..............................

Xrox

eagle eye wrote: »

I just seen this now.
I said that the average team today is better. I didn't say that the average team today is better than the NBA Champions of any era. Don't twist my words into something I did not say.

I never said you did the discussion we were having was lebrons team better than jordans team i.e. their supporting cast as in the teams without there stars.

Hence the they would loose to the clippers remark (of either era)

eagle eye wrote: »

Its much tougher at the top now. We've had 7 different teams in the finals over the past five years including this year and the winners this year will be the fourth different winner in five years. Thats very unusual of you look at the history of the NBA.

Yes we have had a good few champs in the last while but that only shows that none of the teams or players are able to dominate the league for a sustained period not that the league is any better than it has been.

The league and style of play is in constant motion and changes year on year but that does not go to say the standard is any lower or higher as players are competing against players of their own era/style.

It is only the truely great players that change the entire game the pace at which it moves and what is seen as possible no one today kobe or lebron has been able to do it. Jordan done it, magic done it bird did it.

eagle eye wrote: »

Look at the period of the Bulls second 3 in a row, the Jazz and the Rockets were miles ahead of anybody else bar the bulls. The Rockets ended up winning the two titles in between MJ's six.
Look at the eighties and it was always either the Lakers or Celtics with one title thrown in for the 76ers and Dr J. Then the Pistons got on top at the very end of the decade and then came the Bulls for 3, Rockets for 2, Bulls back for 3. And theres the eighties and nineties out of the way.
Thats four teams dominating two decades. Just to remind you again, we are now looking at our fourth different champions in five years.

What you on about it in the last 10 years Purs won it 4 times, LA 3 times, Heat nicked in to get one and in my opinion the Celtics would of repeated this year if it wasnt for injuries so no the league is not any better still is getting dominated by teams.

eagle eye wrote: »

Match right now with any period in history and tell me when we had a depth of top class talent to match right now.

James, Bryant, Wade, Howard, Paul, Anthony, Billups, Rose, Iverson, McGrady, Ming, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Duncan, Stoudamire, Nash, Carter, Shaq..............................

There you go from the 80's - Reggie Theus, Patrick Ewing, Nate Archibald, Karl Malone, Bernard King, Maurice Cheeks, Clyde Drexler, James Worthy, Charles Barkley, Bill Laimbeer, Kevin McHale, Dominique Wilkins, Hakeem Olajuwon, Michael Jordan, Jack Sikma, George Gervin, Robert Parish, Adrian Dantley, Julius Erving, Isiah Thomas, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Moses Malone, Larry Bird

If you need reminding of any other decades just ask, but it just goes to show every era has a host of great players but only one guy was ever able to completely dominate and it ain't lebron.

eagle eye

Xrox wrote: »

There you go from the 80's - Reggie Theus, Patrick Ewing, Nate Archibald, Karl Malone, Bernard King, Maurice Cheeks, Clyde Drexler, James Worthy, Charles Barkley, Bill Laimbeer, Kevin McHale, Dominique Wilkins, Hakeem Olajuwon, Michael Jordan, Jack Sikma, George Gervin, Robert Parish, Adrian Dantley, Julius Erving, Isiah Thomas, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, Moses Malone, Larry Bird

If you need reminding of any other decades just ask, but it just goes to show every era has a host of great players but only one guy was ever able to completely dominate and it ain't lebron.

Ok lets take out LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, Iverson and Tim Duncan from this era, and MJ and Larry, Magic, Olajuwon and Malone from the 80's.

I put to you the following.

Chris Paul
Dwayne Wade
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Dwight Howard



Tony Parker
Brandon Roy
Tracy McGrady
Dirk Nowitzki
Yao Ming

You don't have a team to match them two teams. I'm leaving out the five best today and asking you to do the same from the eighties. I could go on, you can pick another four teams from today which are good enough to beat any team from the eighties when you take out the best five from each era.
Now the thing is that back in the eighties you didn't need a strong bench. You need that now, not one player but at least three or four who can contribute.
My point here is that the overall standard today is much tougher than it was back then or in the ninties. Imo the nineties was stronger that the eighties.