Gardai 'wrong to seize Porsche'

godtabh

GARDAI seized a €200,000 Porsche from a retired Irish businessman who has been living abroad for 16 years even though he had the correct paperwork, a court heard yesterday.

Sean McCarthy said Blanchardstown gardai ordered him and his partner out of the car and told them "today you walk" despite having been shown documentation as to ownership and use of his Andorran registered car in Ireland.

Mr McCarthy, a native of Kerry and former resident of Castleknock, Dublin, told Judge Jacqueline Linnane in the Circuit Civil Court that five hours later on February 25 last year he had been reunited with his car by customs officers who accepted the legality of its use.

Barrister Hugh O'Keeffe, said Mr Mc Carthy and his partner, Colombian-born Patricia Rodriguez, had been tailed by gardai out of the Blanchardstown Shopping Centre onto the N3 Navan dual carriageway. They stopped him and said they suspected him of having imported the Porsche without paying Vehicle Registration Tax.

Mr McCarthy had shown proper documentation, including Andorran identity, and had asked them to contact two named Blanchardstown gardai who would know him. He said the gardai had just laughed, mocked and belittled him and said: "Get out. Today you walk."

The couple had been left to walk off the dual carriageway during which time he had suffered an angina attack.

Mr McCarthy (67) said: "All I believed about the gardai was being shattered before my eyes."

James McDermott, counsel for the Garda Siochana, said officers would be giving a very different version of events.

The case continues today.

Link

hope this hasnt been posted before but hasnt come up on search.

Any one else this happen to?

Tipsy Mac

I thought only Revenue could seize a car for non payment of VRT? Looks like if what this lad said was true he will be getting a nice pay off to stfu about it.

Berty

I always get my Porsche seized whenever I go to Blanchardstown.

Random

- 2 Gardai on a jealous power trip?
- An uncooperative motorist not providing documentation properly when requested and winding the Gardai up?
- A complete misunderstanding?
- Something else?

Interested to hear the other side of it.

godtabh

Random wrote: »

- An uncooperative motorist not providing documentation properly when ........

Sean McCarthy said Blanchardstown gardai ordered him and his partner out of the car and told them "today you walk" despite having been shown documentation as to ownership and use of his Andorran registered car in Ireland

I'm going with power trip

niceirishfella

Cleary he's well healed enough to persue them in the courts.......unlike many who get their car seized.

colm_mcm

Anyone see the picture of him and his young columbian girlfriend in the papers. I've gotta get me a Porsche

Guy:Incognito

kearnsr wrote: »

I'm going with power trip

This bit is just as valid though. They seem to think he's embellishing at least.

"James McDermott, counsel for the Garda Siochana, said officers would be giving a very different version of events".

sneakyST

My mother was stopped at a checkpoint in a private car van and was told she was lucky she wasnt walking when failing to display a valid NCT.....my mother tried to explain about it not needing one but was met with contempt.

Maybe the guards in this case looked at the paperwork and hadnt a clue.

Guy:Incognito

It doesnt say he was only back here on holiday though. If he's back living in Ireland, whether VRT exmpt or not, it shoudl be on Irish plates.

L1011

sneakyST wrote: »

My mother was stopped at a checkpoint in a private car van and was told she was lucky she wasnt walking when failing to display a valid NCT.....my mother tried to explain about it not needing one but was met with contempt.

I can beat that. I was told by a Guard that I needed an NCT disc on a commercial registered car van.... "sure, its only a Xsara, you can't DOE those".

It had a current DOE but the DOE cert is a handwritten A5 sized thingy you don't display on the windscreen!

Dermo123

sneakyST wrote: »

My mother was stopped at a checkpoint in a private car van and was told she was lucky she wasnt walking when failing to display a valid NCT.....my mother tried to explain about it not needing one but was met with contempt.
.

If the car van your mother was driving was registered and taxed privately then the guards maybe correct that it needs an NCT???

Photojoe

The only thing of interest in this is the state of that 67 year old with his hair and leather DnG Jacket.

colm_mcm

privately taxed vans are exempt from DOE and NCT at the moment I think.

link HERE!

Berty

MYOB wrote: »

I can beat that. I was told by a Guard that I needed an NCT disc on a commercial registered car van.... "sure, its only a Xsara, you can't DOE those".

It had a current DOE but the DOE cert is a handwritten A5 sized thingy you don't display on the windscreen!

Silly Gardai. I was stopped in a Transit for doing 75mph on a dual carragieway in a 60mph zone(old days).

She was adamant my van could only 50mph as it was a C class and would not listen to reason. I think we all know a Ford Transit is only a B License but the fact it was a LWB and Hi Cube might have thrown her. I even showed her my B license and tried to tell her the Insurance company would not let me drive without the correct license.

Nope. She wrote me the ticket and I got the superintendant to throw out the fine and give her a bollocking in the process.

Some people you just cannot tell.

NiSmO

This post has been deleted.

Slidey

A friend of mine and his co-worker were dropping a truck from Galway to the docks in Dublin.

He was driving the truck on trade plates and was been collected by his co-worker in a 530 BMW that had been traded in to the garage, also on trade plates.

After dropping the truck at the port they were heading back down the quays and were pulled over by 2 cops on motorbikes. The cops insisted that they could only use the trade plates during office hours.

The lads tried to explain otherwise, that you cant drive an unregistered car outside of office hours but so long as the vehicle is registered in the state and is being used in connection with your business and not for SD&P purposes that it is acceptable.

Gardai having none of it and seized the 2 sets of plates and the Beemer and left th lads to hitch back to Galway.

The plates and car were returned the next day along with an apology.

mobby

Photojoe wrote: »

The only thing of interest in this is the state of that 67 year old with his hair and leather DnG Jacket.

+1
67 year old trying to look 37. I will wait and see what the garda side of the story is.

AugustusMaximus

Slidey wrote: »

A friend of mine and his co-worker were dropping a truck from Galway to the docks in Dublin.

He was driving the truck on trade plates and was been collected by his co-worker in a 530 BMW that had been traded in to the garage, also on trade plates.

After dropping the truck at the port they were heading back down the quays and were pulled over by 2 cops on motorbikes. The cops insisted that they could only use the trade plates during office hours.

The lads tried to explain otherwise, that you cant drive an unregistered car outside of office hours but so long as the vehicle is registered in the state and is being used in connection with your business and not for SD&P purposes that it is acceptable.

Gardai having none of it and seized the 2 sets of plates and the Beemer and left th lads to hitch back to Galway.

The plates and car were returned the next day along with an apology.

Can the company sue for the trouble caused by incompetant gardai ?


The only run I had was with a young ban Garda. Just out of templemore I'd say. She tried to persuade me several times that the insurance disc holder should be place in the bottom right hand corner of the windscreen. I pointed out the obvious that it would obstruct my view of the road but she was having none of it.

sogood

colm_mcm wrote: »

privately taxed vans are exempt from DOE and NCT at the moment I think.

link HERE!

I had a Toyota lite Ace van for a while which was taxed and insured for private use. The tax cost a little bit more than it would have as a commercial vehicle, but as it wasn't a car it didnt have to do an NCT and as it wasnt taxed as a van it didnt have to do a DOE either! Strange but true!

Slidey

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Can the company sue for the trouble caused by incompetant gardai ?

What would be the point?

When you are dealing with trucks the right garda would always find something wrong. I find it is best not to piss them off. Most know nothing but like a truck mechanic I know who is now a Traffic Corps member.. you could be unlucky!

greydiamond

One and the same

colm_mcm

That's uncanny

inforfun

greydiamond wrote: »

One and the same

That guy looks like he got stuck between 2 floors of the face-lift.

Voodoomelon

I remember about a year ago a young lad rang up Gerry Ryan, said we was pulled over on a motorway by customs in an unmarked car.
The young lad was in a 4.0l+ Jaguar with northern plates, but he lived in the North and worked in the south.
The customs lads came up to the window and said "dont you think you're a bit young to be driving this car?". He said no of course, explained his situation etc and the customs guys were having none of it.

They told him to get out and one of them jumped in and the other got back into their own car and both drove off leaving him on the side of a busy motorway. Needless to say he was a bit pissed.
Funny thing was, his mother was a barrister...

jimmycrackcorm

This was in the local paper last week:

http://www.letterkennypost.com/2009/05/15/car-stand-off/

A mother of two is making a written complaint to the Garda Ombudsman about the way she claims she was treated during a bizarre stand-off with local gardai in Letterkenny on Sunday.
Triona McConalogue, of Thornberry, Letterkenny, was driving on the Kilmacrennan Road when she was stopped by gardai.
An attempt was made to seize her northern registered car – and a tow-truck was subsequently called.
But she locked herself into her car and refused to hand over the keys, and a stand-off followed.
Although she lives in Letterkenny, she has a hairdressing business in Sion Mills. She maintains that as she has a business in the north, she is entitled to drive a northern registered car. She did admit, however, that certain documentation must be in place and you must apply to get an exemption.
She alleges that she was called “a tramp” by a member of An Garda Siochana and her two young children, who had been in the car, were very upset by the incident.
After a stand-off lasting a couple of hours, the tow-truck departed and Ms. McConalogue drove off.
Meanwhile, a spokesman for the Donegal Drivers’ Association, alleged that her rights as a citizen were breached, and denounced the current legislation that prevents the free movement of vehicles into Ireland from other EU states.
A spokesperson for the Garda Ombudsman, which investigates complaints about the force made by members of the public, said that it does not discuss individual cases.

So refuse to hand over the keys to the Garda.

Del2005

She maintains that as she has a business in the north, she is entitled to drive a northern registered car. She did admit, however, that certain documentation must be in place and you must apply to get an exemption.

I love this, she knew she couldn't drive the car here without an exemption. She didn't bother to get one and when the Gardai in the course of their duties rightfully tried to get the car she locks herself into it. Wasting several hours of Garda time and the expense of calling a tow truck out. I hope they followed her home and took it from her there.

Now if she'd gone to the trouble of getting this exemption, if it exsists, then she'd have nothing to complain about.

jackofalltrades

Meanwhile, a spokesman for the Donegal Drivers’ Association...

Donegal has it's on Drivers Association????????

stealthyspeeder

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

I thought only Revenue could seize a car for non payment of VRT? Looks like if what this lad said was true he will be getting a nice pay off to stfu about it.

I was under this impression too, can anybody clear this up with a link to some proof?

I have a northern registered car (for the high horse brigade - im from Belfast and live in Dublin for work, but I return home regularly). Now I have been stopped by the gardai and told at the roadside that my car can be seized and would be if I did not accept the infringement for which he pulled me over for, at which point I whipped out the the VRT2 leaflet (which just so happened to be lying in my glovebox!) and asked him to show me exactly how I was contravening the rules on VRT. After a hilariously brief flick through, he informed me that he could sieze it anyway (for the craic or something like! I dunno, but he was insistant!) so I asked him if he worked for the revenue or the gaurds!? He got a big red face on him and started mouthing off about my attitude (although I was quite cheeky in my actions and questions, they were delivered with politeness and a very civil manner) so I found this a bit unproffesional. His collegue (an older guard) came over and basically said "look wise up, no need for that acceleration, even if your under the limit, Cop on and be on your way" Which I thought was very fair, sound and proffesional.

But anyway, siezing cars? guards job or customs job? If you think the guards can do it do, can you post a link to evidence? i.e. legal document which would entitle them to do this for suspected VRT infringement?

timmywex

By the sounds of it as far as gardai were concerned he was living at an irish address so they were perfectly entitled to take the car.

Man sues State over seizure of €200,000 Porsche car

A MAN has sued for damages after his €200,000 Porsche car was seized and he and his Colombian girlfriend were left stranded on the roadway.

Gardaí claimed that Sean McCarthy became argumentative and confrontational when they seized his Porsche.

Mr McCarthy has told the court he is a retired 67-year-old engineer living in Andorra for the past 16-years who spends income from investments to build schools for impoverished children in South America.

Garda Gary Quinn said he and colleagues Grainne Bligh and Donna Walsh had detained the car near Blanchardstown Shopping Centre, in February last year, on suspicion it may have been imported in breach of vehicle registration tax legislation.

He told Judge Jacqueline Linnane in the Circuit Civil Court that when a colleague at Blanchardstown Garda station confirmed that Mr McCarthy had an address at Whitehall House, Castleknock, Dublin, they decided to seize the Andorran registered car.
Garda Quinn said gardaí had power under the Finance Act of 2001 to detain a vehicle to facilitate further inquiries by gardaí and the Revenue Commissioners where there was a reasonable suspicion importation laws may have been breached.

Mr McCarthy is suing the State and the Garda authorities for up to €38,000 damages for negligence and breach of duty in having seized his car, leaving him and his partner, Colombian-born Patricia Rodriguez, stranded on the N3 dual carriageway at Blanchardstown.

He told his counsel, Hugh O’Keeffe, the car had been impounded while he was on an annual holiday in Ireland despite having shown the gardaí his vehicle documentation.

Garda Quinn said Mr McCarthy refused to listen to garda explanations about the detention of his car and had started name dropping, asking that they contact the then minister for justice, Brian Lenihan who would vouch for him.

“He became argumentative and confrontational with us and refused to co-operate or help speed our inquiries along. His manner was borderline on aggressive towards myself and my colleagues,” Garda Quinn said.

He told Mr O’Keeffe that documentation produced by Mr Mc Carthy was in a foreign language but agreed he had heard a Customs and Excise officer tell the court he had no difficulty accepting its authenticity before handing Mr McCarthy back his car five hours later.

The case continues today.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0522/1224247111190.html

VanhireBoys

Way to go Triona - Trionas sister cuts my hair in Killmaccrennan.

Because successive FF govts have made a such a mess of things they are trying to recoup their losses and have dispatched all their little revenue generators (Gardai and Customs) to try and raise as much cash as possible for the state.

This is bad enough but the manner in which that these imbeciles carry out their duties is nothing short of diabolical. We are treated as animals. Its the age old Garda problem of the "power trip"

Quint

Photojoe wrote: »

The only thing of interest in this is the state of that 67 year old with his hair and leather DnG Jacket.

I thought it was an auld one with the columbian girl.

Beta Ray Bill

This is not the first time I've heard of this

I know a Girl form the North who's S15 was taken from her outside Drogheda.
Usual crap from the Garda.

She was originally from Dublin but now works and lives (rents) up the north. She had at the time an Irish passport with and Irish address on it. I think it was her accent that made the Garda take it.

Wasn't so lucky as to have been re united with her car 5 hours later. She got it back 4 days later from customs with a pathetic apology and an extra hundred miles on the clock.

Obviously the Garda involved fancied a drive of it.
nothing ever happened over this though. wasnt worth the effort and she had no way to prove it.

I'm hearing reports that NI people are actually afraid to drive down south as unless they can prove they don't live here their car will be taken off them. Obviously all they have to do is take their passport but ya know how people react to hear-say and all that stuff.

Stupid really.

IMO: Garda resources should be directed toward fighting crime and not being customs officials. It's a waste of resources from what is already and under equipped, under trained, unprofessional and over paid body.

timmywex

timmywex wrote: »

By the sounds of it as far as gardai were concerned he was living at an irish address so they were perfectly entitled to take the car.

It would depend how long he spends at the Irish address. Less than 6 months per year and they cannot touch the car.

Fiesta

grahambo wrote: »

I know a Girl form the North who's S15 was taken from her outside Drogheda.
Usual crap from the Garda.

Hi grahambo,

What's an S15?

What is the 'usual crap from the Garda'?


Does your passport have your address on it? Mine doesn't.


'Obviously the Garda involved fancied a drive of it'. I would imagine that the Gardai had better things to do then drive the 'S15' 100 miles.

After reading your post carefully, I feel that you know little about this particular case, and the exact circumstances regarding the seizure of the 'S15'.

You appear to be negative towards the Gardai, who can do little right in your eyes?

seamus

grahambo wrote: »

She was originally from Dublin but now works and lives (rents) up the north. She had at the time an Irish passport with and Irish address on it. I think it was her accent that made the Garda take it.

Passports don't have your address on them. But your driving licence does. If you change address, you are required to update your licence to reflect the new address. So if she showed the Gardai an Irish driving licence with an Irish address, they have sufficient grounds to suspect that she was driving an unregistered vehicle and seize it.
That her case was valid is her fault - she should have updated her licence or gotten a UK one. Once they had sufficient evidence to seize the vehicle, the onus is then on her to prove otherwise. If she'd kept schtum and not shown anything, she'd have gotten away.

DonJose

Photojoe wrote: »

The only thing of interest in this is the state of that 67 year old with his hair and leather DnG Jacket.

The only excuse for that hairstyle and jacket is if hes a Rolling Stone

sunshinediver

NiSmO wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Same thing happened to me, Borrowed the parents 08 520 estate to bring the dog to the park one evening. Was stopped at a local checkpoint and asked to produce license etc, Garda asked if the dog in the back had a license. I informed him that he didn't as the dog can't drive Not seeing the funny side of things he told me he could give me penalty points not displaying an NCT disk. The car was 6 months old. Was told to get a disk sorted before he left me go.

HashSlinging

I think its a farce that this person had their car taken off them and not even brought to a telephone box ! 67 years old! looks like someone wayne rooney would be into..

total shameful disrespect shown to this man.

Take them to the cleaners..

niceirishfella

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

This was in the local paper last week:

http://www.letterkennypost.com/2009/05/15/car-stand-off/



So refuse to hand over the keys to the Garda.

To be honest, Most of the Guards I meet are decent blokes/ladies. And with their wages hit, some are really pissed and could'nt be arsed to work hard/enforce the law at the minute. Morale is on the floor I'm told as I have friends in the force.
Anyways, then you meet the "wanker" copper - they have the swagger,the tone, the look of a c*nt and will do everything in their power to make life hard for you.
No amount of valid explainations will diswade them from having you - we've all met them.:rolleyes:

Jesus1222

Berty wrote: »

Silly Gardai. I was stopped in a Transit for doing 75mph on a dual carragieway in a 60mph zone(old days).

She was adamant my van could only 50mph as it was a C class and would not listen to reason. I think we all know a Ford Transit is only a B License but the fact it was a LWB and Hi Cube might have thrown her. I even showed her my B license and tried to tell her the Insurance company would not let me drive without the correct license.

Nope. She wrote me the ticket and I got the superintendant to throw out the fine and give her a bollocking in the process.

Some people you just cannot tell.

Somebody I know who was driving a State car, a female Garda threatened to seize the car from the driver at a checkpoint!

DonJose

greydiamond wrote: »

One and the same

This came to mind

niceirishfella

sunshinediver wrote: »

Same thing happened to me, Borrowed the parents 08 520 estate to bring the dog to the park one evening. Was stopped at a local checkpoint and asked to produce license etc, Garda asked if the dog in the back had a license. I informed him that he didn't as the dog can't drive Not seeing the funny side of things he told me he could give me penalty points not displaying an NCT disk. The car was 6 months old. Was told to get a disk sorted before he left me go.

wtf was he asking about a dog licence for?
Thats a dog wardens job FFS! Wanker copper - did you write to his super about him.....I would.

Beta Ray Bill

Fiesta wrote: »

Hi grahambo,

What's an S15?

What is the 'usual crap from the Garda'?


Does your passport have your address on it? Mine doesn't.


'Obviously the Garda involved fancied a drive of it'. I would imagine that the Gardai had better things to do then drive the 'S15' 100 miles.

After reading your post carefully, I feel that you know little about this particular case, and the exact circumstances regarding the seizure of the 'S15'.

You appear to be negative towards the Gardai, who can do little right in your eyes?

You are correct

It's a friend of a friend and I don't know the exact details

I also admit I am very negative toward the Garda, I don't think they are doing a good job at all. Crime is rampant where I live. There was 2 bombs (only one viable) discovered last night not far from where I live.

It really Really REALLY Bugs me when I hear about Garda seizing cars which they shouldn't be while the area I live in is like Cowboys and Indians.

as far as I am concerned they are only revenue collectors.

Now I'm not saying all Garda are like that. and I will admit I have been in contact with some very good Garda. but the VAST majority are muck.

Sorry for going Off Topic

And this is an S15

I was stopped at a check point when I was on uk plates, I had been back in Ireland for about 4 months and my UK tax was well out so the guard takes me aside and asks for my license, I hand him my UK license so he asks for an insurance cert as I had no disc(still on my UK insurance) He takes them both and looks at the tax," You have no tax for months" he says. I more or less told him that UK tax is nothing to do with him.

He then came over handed my stuff and said he should be seizing the car. I said I was entitled to be driving the car on UK plates for 6 months after moving home so he walked off muttering something about getting it sorted and of course I ignored his request for another few months!

HashSlinging

Hold on now lads.. "cop" on

There are some very very good Gardai out there.. this once off incident shouldnt be a soap box for you all to rant.

stealthyspeeder

Fiesta wrote: »

What's an S15?

A quick google search could enlighten you!

Fiesta wrote: »

What is the 'usual crap from the Garda'?

Pretending their customs officials instead of devoting their time and resources to tackling crime.

Fiesta wrote: »

'Obviously the Garda involved fancied a drive of it'. I would imagine that the Gardai had better things to do then drive the 'S15' 100 miles.

If I had the loan of an S15, I would drive it 100 miles if I could, what makes you think a guard who like cars is above doing something like this?

Fiesta wrote: »

After reading your post carefully, I feel that you know little about this particular case, and the exact circumstances regarding the seizure of the 'S15'.

It would appear that you are prepared to put down a poster without even being aware of the car in question!

Fiesta wrote: »

You appear to be negative towards the Gardai, who can do little right in your eyes?

Everyones experiances of the guards are different. They're only humans, and like everyone else, have good days and bad days, and can provide a less that adequate service in some cases. (Althougth without the good work that the guards do in tackling crime that often goes unreported, we would be back in the middle ages!)

Robertr

grahambo wrote: »

IMO: Garda resources should be directed toward fighting crime and not being customs officials. It's a waste of resources from what is already and under equipped, under trained, unprofessional and over paid body.

Hardly a waste of resources as a good day chasing VRT dogers will probably yield enough to cover their annual salary.

Sponge Bob

sunshinediver wrote: »

Garda asked if the dog in the back had a license. I informed him that he didn't as the dog can't drive Not seeing the funny side of things he told me he could give me penalty points not displaying an NCT disk. The car was 6 months old. Was told to get a disk sorted before he left me go.

I was stopped in a UK car that I was driving because its owner was pished and sent me to the airport in it to collect his mother for a wedding next day .

Cop was a very sticky but I rang the owner and he told me the ferry tickets were in the car and I got them and showed them to the cop after which he calmed down .

While he was giving me a list of things he could do me for i pointed into the field that he was trying to hide with his fat arse. I told him that there were scheduled plants groing in there, scheduled plants as per the Noxious Weeds Act and what was he gonna do about them as they were illegal and the landowner must control noxious weeds by law ( thistle and ragwort specifically)

Cop tells me there is no such thing as a Noxious Weed in Ireland. Cop is 100% wrong !!!

Fiesta

Gabriela Mammoth Zirconium wrote: »

I was stopped at a check point when I was on uk plates, I had been back in Ireland for about 4 months and my UK tax was well out so the guard takes me aside and asks for my license, I hand him my UK license so he asks for an insurance cert as I had no disc(still on my UK insurance) He takes them both and looks at the tax," You have no tax for months" he says. I more or less told him that UK tax is nothing to do with him.

He then came over handed my stuff and said he should be seizing the car. I said I was entitled to be driving the car on UK plates for 6 months after moving home so he walked off muttering something about getting it sorted and of course I ignored his request.

I love the point at a checkpoint when you know you have won.

Hi Gabriela Mammoth Zirconium,

From reading your post, I would conclude that you were wrong, and your car should be registered in Ireland.

Believe it or not, it is a summonsable offence in Ireland not to display a current tax disc for a UK registered car. Maybe if this Garda knew this, your post may be different!

The Garda appeared to be using his discretion, and affording you the chance to correct things. Maybe the Garda was wrong after all!!

stealthyspeeder

Robertr wrote: »

Hardly a waste of resources as a good day chasing VRT dogers will probably yield enough to cover their annual salary.

Thats what the customs officials are there do, and their work covers their salaries plus a lot more!!

The guards are there to guard the peace!!