People like me

Brian.

Ok, im a learner driver and i live in the middle of nowhere, no bus service no nothing. The law says that i cant drive around unacompanied and that i cant even apply for a full licence until i have held a provisional licence for at least six months.

how am i suposed to work for a living? Or, do anything for that matter?

Im also just finished my education, and because I didnt work enough or whatever, I wouldnt be aloud to draw the dole for an other six months after finishing education. Not that i even want to draw the dole, I want to work, but what do they expect me to do.

My dad says that they cant do anything anyway because they would be denying my basic right to work.

Any one have any thoughts about this? Or is there suposed to be some sort of logical loop hole that helps people like me?

az2wp0sye65487

Go to work on a bike?

bigeasyeah

Julian Straight Navel wrote: »

Go to work on a bike?

or move near to where you work?

Iwasfrozen

Not that im obeying this silly law

Are you admitting to breaking the law on a public forum where your IP can be traced ?
Not that I can see what this has to do with Politics, perhaps it would be more suited to the Legal Discussion thread ?

Bluefoam

or stop breaking the law

Souljacker

Brian. wrote: »

Ok, im a learner driver and i live in the middle of nowhere, no bus service no nothing. The law says that i cant drive around unacompanied and that i cant even apply for a full licence until i have held a provisional licence for at least six months.

Not that im obeying this silly law, but if i did, how am i suposed to work for a living? Or, do anything for that matter?

Im also just finished my education, and because I didnt work enough or whatever, I wouldnt be aloud to draw the dole for an other six months after finishing education. Not that i even want to draw the dole, I want to work, but what do they expect me to do (If I did obey the law :pac:).

My dad says that they cant do anything anyway because they would be denying my basic right to work.

Any one have any thoughts about this? Or is there suposed to be some sort of logical loop hole that helps people like me?

I take it you're 17? It amazes me how many teenagers feel they have the right to a car.

I too didn't have any bus routes beside me, I worked at your age and I didn’t have a car. Do your parents have cars? Is it really that impossible to walk get a lift or taxi to your closest bus route? A lot of people have been in your situation before and they still managed to work something out without breaking the law.

The 6 months law is there to make sure that novice drivers have a minimum period to gain experience before they attempt to take their test. It’s there to protect the rest of us form people like yourself who have no business being on the road unaccompanied. In the North if you’re caught driving unaccompanied without a licence the least you’d expect is a day in court.

There are so many young people dying and causing death on our roads Not letting novice drivers drive unaccompanied and the 6 month law is far from 'silly' IMO.

Zambia

Brian. wrote: »

Ok, im a learner driver and i live in the middle of nowhere, no bus service no nothing. The law says that i cant drive around unacompanied and that i cant even apply for a full licence until i have held a provisional licence for at least six months.

Not that im obeying this silly law, but if i did, how am i suposed to work for a living? Or, do anything for that matter?

Im also just finished my education, and because I didnt work enough or whatever, I wouldnt be aloud to draw the dole for an other six months after finishing education. Not that i even want to draw the dole, I want to work, but what do they expect me to do (If I did obey the law :pac:).

My dad says that they cant do anything anyway because they would be denying my basic right to work.

Any one have any thoughts about this? Or is there suposed to be some sort of logical loop hole that helps people like me?

You dont have a licence you are not allowed drive without L plates and a driver. Your right to work does not mean you have a right to break local traffic laws doing so.

Tell you what mate you risk it and spout that basic right to work stuff at the Gardai that stops you let us know how you get on.

Riskymove

take the test when you have the licence six months and get full one

meantime try and work as close to home as you can or move somewhere where there is work

aoibhebree

Presumably you're earning more working than you would on the dole. Use some of those extra funds to pay for a taxi to work, or for a lift from a neighbour (someone's bound to be heading the same direction as you?)

I find your attitude very arrogant - you're seventeen or whatever and have been driving less than six months and you think you've enough experience to be allowed out on the roads on your own? The laws were made to protect more experienced and qualified road users from people like you, and I can only hope they start enforcing them more in your area.

By the way, telling the judge "But my dad said ..." won't help you very much!

turgon

I dont see a problem with law. The only issue I have is how long it takes to get a test. For example if you need to drive its unrealistic to wait 2.5 months for a new test.

Just apply for your provisional when you 17. I had my provisional one year before I started driving, partly for the insurance factor.

But anyway, I dont care no more about ye learners. Yours truly passed the test this morning :cool:

Brian.

ok, im sorry for saying stupid things

i will look for alternatives

i just wanted to know what people thought, and if they had any suggestions, hence why i am here asking otherwise i would have said nothing.

its just that i REALLY am stuck out in the sticks, and moving everytime i got work didnt really appeal.

sorry for coming across as a twat......

Scofflaw

Insofar as this has a political dimension, it's an economic one - it could charitably be regarded as related to Norman Tebbit's infamous "get on yer bike" comment.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Brian.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Insofar as this has a political dimension, it's an economic one - it could charitably be regarded as related to Norman Tebbit's infamous "get on yer bike" comment.

moderately,
Scofflaw

It is political if there is no public transport......... cycle for over an hour and a half, maybe more. twice a day. I supose people had it worse years ago when public transport barely existed.

P. Breathnach

Speaking as a representative of a bygone age: when I got a job a distance from my home, I moved home. That's the way things used to be done.

Brian.

Ok, there dosent seem much point in this thread anymore.......... guess i have to migrate or something......

hatrickpatrick

Online business maybe? Set up a website or something. I'm giving that a shot this summer.

InFront

Well if you define migration as moving home to a few miles away, and paying for that out of your salary, I don't think it would be a step too far.

Brian.

InFront wrote: »

Well if you define migration as moving home to a few miles away, and paying for that out of your salary, I don't think it would be a step too far.

Sorry, i wasnt trying to be sarcastic or anything

P. Breathnach

Brian. wrote: »

Ok, there dosent seem much point in this thread anymore.......... guess i have to migrate or something......

That's the idea: migrate to a location near your job.

Breaktown

Souljacker wrote: »

The 6 months law is there to make sure that novice drivers have a minimum period to gain experience before they attempt to take their test. It’s there to protect the rest of us form people like yourself who have no business being on the road unaccompanied. In the North if you’re caught driving unaccompanied without a licence the least you’d expect is a day in court.

I understand that the 6 month thing is in place to allow drivers to gain experience, but how can you gain experience if you can't practice in the first place? I'm 23, don't live with my parents and I don't know anyone locally with a full drivers licence that could accompany me. I do have access to some public transport, thankfully, but I really want to learn to drive. It's a vicious circle. The only thing I can think of is taking lessons and just trying to pass the test from that, but I still wouldn't have experience. Which isn't an ideal situation either.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

briktop

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Speaking as a representative of a bygone age: when I got a job a distance from my home, I moved home. That's the way things used to be done.

i think you mean Emigrate ,

you only migrate if you are a SWALLOW

and if you are in fact a swallow , you may find yourself a new career if you look around

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Souljacker

Breaktown wrote: »

I understand that the 6 month thing is in place to allow drivers to gain experience, but how can you gain experience if you can't practice in the first place? I'm 23, don't live with my parents and I don't know anyone locally with a full drivers licence that could accompany me. I do have access to some public transport, thankfully, but I really want to learn to drive. It's a vicious circle. The only thing I can think of is taking lessons and just trying to pass the test from that, but I still wouldn't have experience. Which isn't an ideal situation either.

Sorry but I fail to see how this justifies an unqualified person to drive unaccompanied. Lessons are expensive but give or take a very few exceptions it's something everyone has had to do in order to pass their test.

I completely agree with you that it's difficult to pass your test without experience of driving outside of a weekly one hour lesson but there're always options. Surely you see your parents or some family member or friends who drive and are willing to take you out. There are always ways and means if you want it badly enough.

The alternative is a danger allowing unqualified drivers on our roads and invariably the carnage and death which comes with that. Just MHO mind.

ninty9er

Breaktown wrote: »

I understand that the 6 month thing is in place to allow drivers to gain experience, but how can you gain experience if you can't practice in the first place? I'm 23, don't live with my parents and I don't know anyone locally with a full drivers licence that could accompany me. I do have access to some public transport, thankfully, but I really want to learn to drive. It's a vicious circle. The only thing I can think of is taking lessons and just trying to pass the test from that, but I still wouldn't have experience. Which isn't an ideal situation either.

I regard people who haven't been professionally instructed how to drive (and not driven outside of this enforced proper driving environement until their test) as as much of a threat as drunk drivers.

Neither have any clue what they're doing. The only thing in favour of the learner is they haven't been so stupid as to purposely go out to damage their own ability.

Breaktown

Souljacker wrote: »

Sorry but I fail to see how this justifies an unqualified person to drive unaccompanied.

It know it doesn't justify it, and to be honest I wouldn't feel comfortable in a car on my own if I was only learning. But it frustrates me that I can't learn.

I have said it to my Dad before about accompanying me (when I'm at home) if I do learn, but he always finds some excuse not to. And there isn't really anyone else, so I'll have to make do with the bus for now.

InFront

Breaktown wrote: »

It know it doesn't justify it, and to be honest I wouldn't feel comfortable in a car on my own if I was only learning. But it frustrates me that I can't learn.

I have said it to my Dad before about accompanying me (when I'm at home) if I do learn, but he always finds some excuse not to. And there isn't really anyone else, so I'll have to make do with the bus for now.

I'm sure you have some friends or some relatives somewhere who could help you from time to time? Back this up with lessons and practice in a disused space like a yard or vacant carpark. People do this all the time.

Scofflaw

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

A real Dub would.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Daithinski

Brian. wrote: »

Ok, im a learner driver and i live in the middle of nowhere, no bus service no nothing. The law says that i cant drive around unacompanied and that i cant even apply for a full licence until i have held a provisional licence for at least six months.

how am i suposed to work for a living? Or, do anything for that matter?

Im also just finished my education, and because I didnt work enough or whatever, I wouldnt be aloud to draw the dole for an other six months after finishing education. Not that i even want to draw the dole, I want to work, but what do they expect me to do.

My dad says that they cant do anything anyway because they would be denying my basic right to work.

Any one have any thoughts about this? Or is there suposed to be some sort of logical loop hole that helps people like me?

Get a motorbike...

Pedro K

This thread should probably belong in learning to drive.

But either way, my take on it is, don't get yourself into a situation whereby you need a car when you're not properly licensed to drive one.

When I was on a provisional license, I drove around, I admit it. I shouldn't have. But there's no way I needed a car at that stage! I could have gotten anywhere I needed to be somehow.

As somebody else ponted out, there is always the option of cycling!
Or if you really want to get on the road, get yourself a scooter or a small motorbike. Problem solved, you don't need a fully licensed driver with you at all times!

Niall Keane

The O.P. has a point though. I’ve noticed this with a relative in her 30’s learning now. How many holier than thou fully qualified drivers became such by always driving with a qualified driver while learning? I’d imagine a lot of the evangelists here probably had an L plate happily decorating their cars for years. Driving on your own, making those decisions on your own is surely crucial?
There’s a fair element of response training to learning to drive, I don’t know how well this can be learned on a 1 lesson a week basis, by the following week the person has probably forgotten the “feel” again.
Before this topic becomes emotive, I’m not advocating a free for all, but perhaps allowing Learners with a certain amount of clocked up hours from a professional instructor, on to the roads displaying L Plates at certain restricted hours, say Sunday 1pm to 4pm might be an idea, allowing them to improve their skill in a situation drivers frequently find themselves in – on their own.
I think the outright ban was another political knee-jerk reaction that will now mean greater numbers of dangerous fully qualified drivers who can reverse around a corner all right, but have not had experience in driving without the safety net of an accompanying driver. At least with an L Plate on a car you knew to watch out for the b@*@>$d!

Souljacker

Niall Keane wrote: »

The O.P. has a point though. I’ve noticed this with a relative in her 30’s learning now. How many holier than thou fully qualified drivers became such by always driving with a qualified driver while learning? I’d imagine a lot of the evangelists here probably had an L plate happily decorating their cars for years. Driving on your own, making those decisions on your own is surely crucial?
There’s a fair element of response training to learning to drive, I don’t know how well this can be learned on a 1 lesson a week basis, by the following week the person has probably forgotten the “feel” again.
Before this topic becomes emotive, I’m not advocating a free for all, but perhaps allowing Learners with a certain amount of clocked up hours from a professional instructor, on to the roads displaying L Plates at certain restricted hours, say Sunday 1pm to 4pm might be an idea, allowing them to improve their skill in a situation drivers frequently find themselves in – on their own.
I think the outright ban was another political knee-jerk reaction that will now mean greater numbers of dangerous fully qualified drivers who can reverse around a corner all right, but have not had experience in driving without the safety net of an accompanying driver. At least with an L Plate on a car you knew to watch out for the b@*@>$d!

Political Knee -jerk reaction? Please tell me another country in the western world which allows unqualified drivers drive unaccompanied? I never drove unaccompanied before I got my test because there was the very real risk of getting a ban, fine and day in court (I live in N.Ireland). The loophole in the Law in the Republic (regarding 2nd provisional licence holders) was bizarre to say the least.

roosterman71

When I was 17 and needed to get somewhere I used a bike/walked or took the tractor :pac: I even brought it to school a few times I missed the bus!!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Niall Keane

"Research from the Swedish National Road and Transport Research Institute shows that an unaccompanied novice driver (defined as someone who has held a full licence for less than two years) is up to 33 times more likely than an accompanied learner driver to be involved in a collision (Gregersen et al., 2003). And statistics from Britain and the UK show that 20 percent of newly licenced drivers become involved in collisions during their first year of independent driving (Grayson, 2005)."

Q.E.D.

So like I said, perhaps a Sunday afternoon allowance with an L-Plate, so fully licenced and experienced drivers can be made aware of the potential hazzard, as it stands people get licences without ever driving by themselves, and your figures seem to suggest that this is the problem.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

P. Breathnach

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I thought we had that.

Firetrap

I've a certain amount of sympathy for the OP. I was lucky enough not to have that law to deal with when I first started driving. I do understand why it exists though; I've driven in Ireland and the UK and really notice the difference. All the OP can do is take steps so that they can get to work. Get a 2nd hand moped somewhere. It's cheap, will get you from A-B and won't cost much to tax/insure/fuel. The law is the law - it suits some people. Doesn't suit others.