Israel at it again!

So Israel is continuing to build illegal, morally wrong settlements in the West Bank! I really don't think U.S. President Barack Obama is going to do anything to stop it! Sure he even stated that Jerusalem should remain the undivided capital of Israel. It just makes me so mad! I really wish the new settlers a life of chronic poverty, war, famine and no economic prosperity!
Israeli West Bank settlement condemned as provocation.......http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2009/0519/1224246880778.html

dr.bollocko

Moved from AH.

marcsignal

Well they do say History repeats itself........

dlofnep

Nothing new here from Israel. Netanyahu is a scumbag.

af_thefragile

Obama isn't going to do ****!
He got into power through the heavy funding and lobbying of Israeli organisations, especially the AIPAC.
He's a true friend and supporter of Israel.

If it wasn't for the AIPAC, Obama wouldn't have had become the president.

dlofnep

He might not be doing much, but he is attempting.

And if it weren't for AIPAC and all those other Israeli lobby groups, the conflict would be solved by now!

af_thefragile

Deleted User wrote: »

And if it weren't for AIPAC and all those other Israeli lobby groups, the conflict would be solved by now!

Over the years Israel has become more of a liability to america. It doesn't want to but it becomes obliges to help Israel. Israel is costing america heavily. It has become a threat to america's national security and its also quite expensive with all the aid it receives from america. Something that america can't afford as it's pretty much broke by this stage.

Sooner or later america is gonna let go of Israel. It wouldn't wanna take the burden especially when it itself is broke and the threat to national security is increasing.

And so Israel is trying hard to maintain the American-Israel relationship for as long as it can by lobbying heavily and supporting candidates who support Israel to win the elections, like Obama.

marcsignal

there is a growing awareness among ordinary people in the U.S. Jews and non Jews, regarding the damage these lobby groups are doing to the rest of the worlds attitude, towards the U.S. Mid East Policy, and the special relationship between the U.S. and Israel.

It would seem that ordinary Jews are becomming slightly pissed off with the likes of AIPAC and Zionist movements like the ADL claiming to represent their best interests.

http://www.defamation-thefilm.com/html/trailer1.html

GhostInTheRuins

marcsignal wrote: »

Well they do say History repeats itself........

Great pictures.

Sand

I reckon this thread will go 20 pages. The last page will look just like the first page.

marcsignal

Sand wrote: »

I reckon this thread will go 20 pages. The last page will look just like the first page.

there's probably an app in the boards settings, that'll change the background colour for each page for you :pac:





just kidding Sand

galwayrush

Idiots, don't they realse what Property Development did to this Country?:rolleyes:

Belfast

Deleted User wrote: »

So Israel is continuing to build illegal, morally wrong settlements in the West Bank! I really don't think U.S. President Barack Obama is going to do anything to stop it! Sure he even stated that Jerusalem should remain the undivided capital of Israel. It just makes me so mad! I really wish the new settlers a life of chronic poverty, war, famine and no economic prosperity!
Israeli West Bank settlement condemned as provocation.......http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2009/0519/1224246880778.html

Why does this surprise you Deleted User
It is what Israel does.
The Israelis are going to keep doing this as long as they want and the Americans nor anyone else are not going to stop them.
The Palestinians are going through the same process Native Americans did after Columbus arrived.
They will be pushed in to smaller and smaller reservations just like the Indians.
Not much chance of the American Indians getting their land back today.
The reality in this world is if as a people or a county you cannot defend you land then other can people can take it from you.

dlofnep

Sand wrote: »

I reckon this thread will go 20 pages. The last page will look just like the first page.

What's your thoughts on the above topic Sand?

pbirney

Sand wrote: »

I reckon this thread will go 20 pages. The last page will look just like the first page.

You could state that about the majority of threads on the forums :rolleyes:

slippy wicket

Do you not realize, the palestinians are only barely civilized animals that do not know when they are beaten, and the israelis are all angels who would not dream of attacking anyone if unprovoked. (tongue firmly in cheek)

GhostInTheRuins

Sand wrote: »

I reckon this thread will go 20 pages. The last page will look just like the first page.

So? What do you think will happen, we'll find a resolution to the problems in the middle east? It's a discussion board.

Sand

So? What do you think will happen, we'll find a resolution to the problems in the middle east? It's a discussion board.

Meh. So "discuss". Ill check back in with you guys on page 20. I can tell you right now what the general process will be:

1 - Israel is evil. ( Check)
2 - Israel is kinda like the Nazis. Ironic huh? A lot of things are kinda like the Holocaust. Profound. (Check)
3 - Its really all the fault of the US and their evil war machine. Lets talk about Iraq.
4 - Lets talk about Iran and their missiles.
5 - Why is is so bad to let a regime of clerics on an apocalyptic mission from God have nukes if liberal democratic regimes with checks and balances have them? HYPOCRISY, J'accuse!
6 - Lets whip out the history books and start figuring out if Israel actually has a right to exist. If we can prove it doesnt, itll solve the problem \0/
8 - Who cares? Israel is evil....
9 - Wes will show up and thank the posts of everyone he agrees with. Unironically.

Then I'll show up on page 20 saying "****ing called it!". Already on to page two....

What's your thoughts on the above topic Sand?

Uh, they shouldnt be building more settlements on land thats going to be up for negotiation if and when that ever occurs in any meaningful sense? I mean, who here reckons they should be building settlements as part of an expansionist vision to forge a greater Israel? No one? Great. Discussion over.

Hang on, Ill go see if I can dig up some pictures from the Holocaust to make a profound point.

dlofnep

And what's wrong with a discussion on the topic? It's a very relevant and important issue, and people have the right to express their opinion on it. If they find Israel's actions disgusting, then let them vent?

I know what you're thinking "Oh not these lefty, bandwagon feckers again".. Well - Maybe so. But it's an issue worth addressing and worth discussing, and while Israel continues these acts - then naturally, we will discuss it.

For some reason - it seems to hit you on a personal level. I'm unsure why. Maybe you object to left-opinion. I'm unsure - But let's just discuss the topic, and even if your prediction is correct - then so what? There's a million and 1 threads I could predict on this forum, but I let them run their course.

Engage, debate, discuss! Afterall, that's what discussion forums are for.

GhostInTheRuins

Sand wrote: »

I mean, who here reckons they should be building settlements as part of an expansionist vision to forge a greater Israel? No one? Great. Discussion over.

You could use a similar argument for 90%+ of the threads on this website. I'm surprised you managed to stick around so long to be honest.

jank

Uh, they shouldnt be building more settlements on land thats going to be up for negotiation if and when that ever occurs in any meaningful sense? I mean, who here reckons they should be building settlements as part of an expansionist vision to forge a greater Israel? No one? Great. Discussion over.

So why are they building these settlements then so Sand? Someone, somewhere thinks its a good idea.

marcsignal

Sand wrote: »

Meh. So "discuss". Ill check back in with you guys on page 20. I can tell you right now what the general process will be:

jeez Sand Chill out, just get a copy of this movie, it will explain everything

i understand its the sequel to the boy in the stripey pjs :cool:

wes

Well, the new Israeli government has been nothing short of comical lately.

The following article from the independent.co.uk, I think illustrates things nicely:
Israel goes cold on plan for regional peace deal

The sheer hilarity of Israel denying Palestinians a right to a state in both word and deed and then demanding that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a "Jewish" state (not mentioned in the above article, but can be found easily enough via a search engine). Go figure, recognizing Israel isn't enough apparently and they have to move the goal posts. Laughable of them to make such a absurd demand, there basically asking the Palestinians to recognize Israel's right to be racist against them, while at the same time denying the Palestinians state hood of there own.

Also, we see Western hypocrisy once again. Israel denies the Palestinians a right to a state, won't recognize previous agreements, they continue colonial expansion, influenced by the Bible for the religious (the God gave them the land crowd) and ultra-nationalism for the secular minded (the "some of my ancestors in the distant past may have lived here" crowd), both of which are pretty damn out there. And they are armed (basically admitted by the previous prime minister) with Nuclear weapons. Then there are all UN resolutions and international law that they are breaking. Of course, it is always Iran who should be punished with sanctions or Gaza that should suffer a criminal siege and Israel should get off Scott free, because the West has decided that the rules only apply to some of the people, some of the time.

Joey the lips

We can go around and around but we come to the same conclusions. Isreal is being a bully in the middle east. The problem is two fold. The Isrealies have the backing of the US because the US needs an alllie in the middle east the the house of saudi cannot be trusted. The Isrealies say they are protecting the reagion and making it more secure. This is a contradiction because it will cost them more in security protecting these settled areas. Its a simple case of land grabing!

There has been a B I G campagn running for at least 5 years. Its the Boycott Isreali goods. So this is nothing new its known ages!

but just for ye who are interested, all is available on amnesty international

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND
Between the two world wars the British authorities ruled Palestine under a League of Nations mandate, which ended when the State of Israel was proclaimed on 14 May 1948. Arab protests against a UN partition plan were followed by war between Arab and Israeli armies from which Israel emerged victorious. More than 800,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled from Israel and became refugees in the Gaza Strip, West Bank or neighbouring countries.
Two parts of Palestine remained outside Israel: the Gaza Strip, which came under Egyptian administration; and the eastern part of Palestine, which was taken over by Jordan in 1950 and became known as the West Bank. Hostilities between Israel and Egypt, Syria and Jordan in June 1967 ended in Israel’s occupation of the West Bank (including East Jerusalem, which was annexed by Israel) and the Gaza Strip. Israel also occupied Syria’s Golan Heights (annexed by Israel in 1980) and the Sinai Peninsula (later returned to Egypt).
The Palestinians who remained in Israel after the establishment of the state became Israeli citizens but were placed under military rule until 1966. Many became internally displaced after they were expelled or fled from their villages. The land and properties of the Palestinians refugees and of those internally displaced by the war were confiscated. Today more than 1,000,000 Palestinian and Bedouin citizens of Israel, known as Israeli Arabs, account for some 18% of the population of Israel. Most of them live in northern Israel, in the Galilee and Triangle regions; about 100,000 live in towns known as mixed towns (such as Haifa, Ramle, Lod, Jaffa and Akko); and some 130-140,000 Bedouins live in the Negev in the south of the country. In the West Bank and Gaza Strip some 3,500,000 Palestinians, more than 1,500,000 of them refugees,(6) have lived under Israeli military occupation since 1967 and some 200,000 live in East Jerusalem with a special status as permanent residents.

Recent developments:
Between 1993 and 1995, negotiations between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) led to a series of agreements, known as the Oslo Accords, between the two parties. A Palestinian Authority (PA) was established, with jurisdiction over parts of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. In 1995 Yitzhak Rabin, the Israeli Prime Minister who signed the Oslo Accords with the Palestinians, was assassinated by an Israeli right-wing activist opposed to the peace agreement with the Palestinians. After that, many of the provisions of the Oslo Accords were never implemented by Isreal
In September 2000 a Palestinian uprising (intifada) broke out. Since then some 2,500 Palestinians, more than 450 of them children, have been killed by the Israeli army and more than 900 Israelis, including more than 100 children, have been killed by Palestinian armed groups. Tens of thousands of Palestinians have been arrested by the Israeli army, and some 6,000 remain detained, many on charges of involvement in attacks against Israelis. The Israeli army has destroyed thousands of Palestinian homes, large areas of agricultural land and hundreds of other properties. This, and the stringent restrictions imposed by Israel on the movement of Palestinians within the Occupied Territories, have led to the virtual collapse of the Palestinian economy. Most Palestinians in the Occupied Territories live below the poverty line and depend on some form of assistance for survival. Since the outbreak of the intifada in 2000 the Oslo Accords have essentially become moot. The PA remains in place but its ability to function has been increasingly curtailed. The Israeli army has repeatedly bombed and raided most of the PA security services installations, prisons and other institutions, and it routinely carries out raids and incursions in Palestinian towns, refugee camps and villages which are supposed to be under the PA’s jurisdiction.
Inter-factional tensions increased after President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party, which had ruled the Palestinian Authority (PA) since its establishment more than a decade earlier, was defeated by the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in parliamentary elections in January 2006. Hamas formed a government, headed by Prime Minister Isma'il Haniyeh, in March of that year. Armed confrontations between rival security forces and armed groups increased as repeated attempts to form a coalition government of national unity failed. In December President Abbas announced his intention to call presidential and parliamentary elections, sparking a new wave of inter-factional fighting.
Following the establishment of a government led by Hamas, which refused to recognize the state of Israel, the Israeli government began confiscating tax duties due to the PA, and key Western donors ceased direct aid to the PA government on the grounds that they considered Hamas a "terrorist organization". This created a deepening crisis in the Palestinian economy, exacerbated by frequent Israeli military attacks on Palestinian infrastructure and a blockade imposed by Israel on the OPT. The Gaza Strip bore the brunt of the Israeli bombardments and blockade. At the same time, Palestinian armed groups increased their firing of homemade "Qassam" rockets from the Gaza Strip into the south of Israel, notably in the second half of the year. Amnesty International Annual report from 2006
In 2005 Israel withdrew its settlers and troops from the Gaza Strip and dismantled four small settlements in the northern West Bank. However, it continued to build and expand illegal settlements and related infrastructure, including a 600km fence/wall, on Palestinian land in the occupied West Bank. Military blockades and restrictions imposed by Israel on the movement of Palestinians within the Occupied Territories continued to cause high unemployment and poverty among the Palestinian population. There was much lessviolence between Israelis and Palestinians, although attacks by both sides continued. Some 190 Palestinians, including around 50 children, were killed by Israeli forces, and 50 Israelis, including six children, were killed by Palestinian armed groups. Israeli forces carried out unlawful attacks and routinely used excessive force against peaceful demonstrators protesting against the destruction of Palestinian agricultural land and the Israeli army’s construction of the fence/wall. Israeli settlers frequently attacked Palestinian farmers, destroying orchards and preventing cultivation of their land. Israeli soldiers and settlers responsible for unlawful killings and other abuses against Palestinians and their property generally had impunity. Thousands of Palestinians were arrested by Israeli forces throughout the Occupied Territories on suspicion of security offences. Israeli conscientious objectors continued to be imprisoned for refusing to serve in the army.


Backround to the Current Situation


Increased violence between Israelis and Palestinians resulted in a threefold increase in killings of Palestinians by Israeli forces. The number of Israelis killed by Palestinian armed groups diminished by half. More than 650 Palestinians, including some 120 children, and 27 Israelis were killed. Israeli forces carried out air and artillery bombardments in the Gaza Strip, and Israel continued to expand illegal settlements and to build a 700-km fence/wall on Palestinian land in the Occupied Territories. Military blockades and increased restrictions imposed by Israel on the movement of Palestinians and the confiscation by Israel of Palestinian customs duties caused a significant deterioration in living conditions for Palestinian inhabitants in the Occupied Territories, with poverty, food aid dependency, health problems and unemployment reaching crisis levels. Israeli soldiers and settlers committed serious human rights abuses, including unlawful killings, against Palestinians, mostly with impunity. Thousands of Palestinians were arrested by Israeli forces throughout the Occupied Territories on suspicion of security offences and hundreds were held in administrative detention. Israeli conscientious objectors continued to be imprisoned for refusing to serve in the army. In a 34-day war against Hizbullah in Lebanon in July-August, Israeli forces committed serious violations of international humanitarian law, including war crimes.(Spark the Isreal Nazi Comparision) Israeli bombardments killed nearly 1,200 people, and destroyed or damaged tens of thousands of homes and other civilian infrastructure. Israeli forces also littered south Lebanon with around a million unexploded cluster bombs which continued to kill and maim civilians after the conflict.


Ehud Olmert became Prime Minister in April having exercised the powers of the office from January when Prime Minister Ariel Sharon suffered a severe stroke. Ahead of the March legislative elections, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert announced his intention to implement unilaterally a "convergence" plan, under which Israel would annex Palestinian land west of the 700-km fence/wall being built by Israel in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and retain control of the Jordan Valley and the West Bank border with Jordan. According to this plan, Israel would annex some 12 per cent of the occupied West Bank, including the locations of all the main Israeli settlements, where more than 80 per cent of Israeli settlers reside.
Relations between the Israeli government and the Palestinian Authority (PA) deteriorated after the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) won the parliamentary elections in the Occupied Territories in January 2006. The Israeli government had no official relations with the Hamas administration, although it maintained relations with PA President Mahmoud Abbas and his Fatah party.

Hizbullah-Israel war
In the 34-day war which broke out on 12 July, after Hizbullah's military wing crossed into Israel and attacked an Israeli patrol, killing three Israeli soldiers and capturing two others. Israeli forces carried out air and artillery bombardments, killing nearly 1,200 people in Lebanon, including hundreds of children. Israeli forces also destroyed tens of thousands of homes and commercial properties, mostly in south Lebanon and in the suburbs of Beirut; and targeted and damaged main roads and bridges throughout the country. Hizbullah missiles fired into Israel caused the deaths of 43 civilians and damaged hundreds of buildings.
In the course of the conflict Israeli forces committed serious violations of international human rights and humanitarian law, including war crimes. In particular, Israeli forces carried out indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks on a large scale. Israeli forces also appear to have carried out direct attacks on civilian infrastructure intended to inflict a form of collective punishment on Lebanon's people, in order to induce them and the Lebanese government to turn against Hizbullah, as well as to cause harm to Hizbullah's military capability.
At least six Lebanese nationals, most of them known or suspected Hizbullah fighters, remained detained in Israeli prisons at the end of the year, while Hizbullah did not disclose the fate or condition of the two Israeli soldiers it had captured. Indirect negotiations for a prisoner exchange were reportedly ongoing between the two sides. Israel suspended access by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) to the prisoners it held after Hizbullah refused to grant such access to the two Israeli soldiers.
In the final days of the war, after the terms of the ceasefire had been agreed, Israeli forces launched hundreds of thousands of cluster bombs containing up to 4 million bomblets into south Lebanon. The million or so unexploded bomblets that were left continued to kill and maim civilians long after the end of the war. Some 200 people, including tens of children, had been killed or injured by these bomblets and newly laid mines by the end of the year. Despite repeated requests, Israel did not provide detailed maps of the exact locations where its forces launched cluster bombs to the UN bodies mandated to clear unexploded ordnance.


Killings of Palestinians
Israeli forces carried out frequent air and artillery bombardments against the Gaza Strip, often into densely populated refugee camps and residential areas. Some 650 Palestinians, half of them unarmed civilians and including some 120 children, were killed by Israeli forces. This toll was a threefold increase compared with 2005. On 27 June the Israeli army launched operation "Summer Rains" following an attack two days earlier by members of Palestinian armed groups on a military post inside Israel in which two Israeli soldiers were killed and a third - Corporal Gilad Shalit - was captured. Israeli attacks escalated dramatically after the capture of Gilad Shalit, although the preceding months had also been marked by killings of Palestinians and Israeli air and artillery bombardments in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

• On 9 June, seven members of the Ghalia family - five children and their parents - were killed and some 30 other civilians were injured when Israeli forces fired several artillery shells at a beach in the north of the Gaza Strip. The beach was crowded with Palestinian families enjoying the first weekend of the school holidays. The Israeli army denied responsibility for the killings but failed to substantiate their claim.
• In the early morning of 8 November, 18 members of the Athamna family were killed and dozens of other civilians were injured when a volley of artillery shells struck a densely populated neighbourhood of Beit Hanoun, in the north of the Gaza Strip. The victims, eight of them children, were killed in their sleep or while fleeing the shelling, which lasted for around 30 minutes and during which some 12 shells landed in the area. The Israeli authorities expressed regret for the killings, saying that the houses were mistakenly struck due to a technical failure, but rejected calls for an international investigation. The attack came in the wake of a six-day Israeli army raid in Beit Hanoun code-named "Autumn Clouds", during which Israeli forces killed some 70 Palestinians, at least half of them unarmed civilians and including several children and two ambulance emergency service volunteers. The raid also injured some 200 others, including scores of children.

Most Palestinians were killed in the Gaza Strip, although scores were also killed in the West Bank.

• Eight-year-old Akaber 'Abd al-Rahman 'Ezzat Zayed was shot dead by Israeli special forces who opened fire on the car in which she was travelling to hospital with her uncle, who was seriously injured in the attack. The incident took place on 17 March in Yamun village, near the northern West Bank town of Jenin.
• On 19 December, 14-year-old Dua'a Nasser 'Abdelkader was shot dead by Israeli soldiers as she approached the fence/wall with a friend near Fara'un, a village in the north of the West Bank.

Israeli forces continued to assassinate wanted Palestinians, killing and wounding bystanders in the process.

• Nine members of the Abu Salmiya family were killed when an Israeli F16 fighter jet bombed their home at 2.30am on 12 July. According to the Israeli army, a senior leader of Hamas' armed wing was in the house at the time of the strike but survived. However, the strike wiped out an entire family: the owner of the house, Nabil Abu Salmiya, a Hamas political leader and university lecturer; his wife Salwa; and seven of their children all aged under 18. Dozens of neighbours were also injured and several other houses were damaged in the strike.

Attacks by Palestinian armed groups
Killings of Israelis by Palestinian armed groups continued but decreased to half the previous year's figure and to the lowest level since the beginning of the intifada in 2000. In total, 21 Israeli civilians, including a child, and six soldiers were killed in Palestinian attacks in Israel and the Occupied Territories.

• Eleven Israeli civilians were killed and 68 others were injured in a suicide bomb attack claimed by the armed wing of Islamic Jihad on 17 April in Tel Aviv's old bus station.
• One of two suicide bombings, on 30 March, killed four Israeli civilians, one of them aged 16, near the entrance of the Israeli settlement of Kedumim, in the northern West Bank.
• There was a significant increase in the launching of homemade "Qassam" rockets by Palestinian armed groups from the Gaza Strip into the south of Israel. In most cases these indiscriminate rockets caused no casualties, but two Israeli civilians, Fatima Slutzker and Yaakuv Yaakobov, were killed in separate rocket attacks on Sderot in November and several others were injured.

Attacks by Israeli settlers
Israeli settlers in the West Bank repeatedly attacked Palestinians and their property, as well as international peace activists and human rights defenders who sought to document their attacks on Palestinians. Some of the attacks occurred during the olive harvest season, in October and November, when Palestinian farmers attempted to go to their fields close to Israeli settlements and which Israeli settlers sought to prevent them accessing. In June the Israeli Supreme Court issued a ruling instructing the army and police to protect Palestinian farmers seeking to work their land from attacks by settlers. The incidence of such attacks decreased, but several more were carried out, some in the presence of Israeli security forces who failed to intervene.

• In the evening of 25 March a group of Israeli settlers assaulted 'Abderrahman Shinneran as he slept in his tent with his wife and three children in Susia in the southern Hebron Hills. When his brother 'Aziz went to his rescue he too was assaulted and injured.
• On 18 November, Tove Johansson, a 19-year-old Swedish human rights defender, was assaulted by Israeli settlers as she accompanied Palestinian school children through an Israeli army checkpoint near the Tel Rumeida Israeli settlement in the West Bank city of Hebron. She was struck with a broken bottle and sustained facial injuries. Israeli soldiers at a nearby checkpoint took no action to stop the attack or apprehend the perpetrators.

Impunity and the administration of justice
In December the Supreme Court rejected a discriminatory law enacted the previous year that denies Palestinian victims compensation for abuses suffered at the hands of Israeli forces. However, impunity remained widespread for Israeli soldiers and settlers responsible for unlawful killings, ill-treatment and other abuses of human rights of Palestinians and attacks against their property. Investigations and prosecutions relating to such abuses were rare and usually only occurred when the abuses were exposed by human rights organizations and the media. By contrast, the Israeli authorities took a range of measures against Palestinians suspected of direct or indirect involvement in attacks against Israelis, including measures such as assassinations, physical abuse and collective punishment that violate international law. Palestinians convicted of involvement in attacks against Israelis were usually sentenced to life imprisonment by Israeli military courts, whereas in the exceptional cases in which Israelis were convicted of killing or abusing Palestinians, Israeli courts imposed lenient sentences.
Thousands of Palestinians, including scores of children, were detained by Israeli forces. Many were arrested during Israeli army operations in the Gaza Strip. The majority of those arrested were released uncharged, but hundreds were accused of security offences. Those detained included dozens of Hamas government ministers and parliamentarians, who were arrested after Palestinian gunmen captured an Israeli soldier in June, apparently to exert pressure for the soldier's release.
Trials of Palestinians before military courts often did not meet international fair trial standards, with allegations of torture and other ill-treatment of detainees inadequately investigated. Hundreds of Palestinians were held in administrative detention without charge or trial; more than 700 were being held at the end of the year. Family visits to some 10,000 Palestinian prisoners were severely restricted as many of their relatives were denied visiting permits.


Imprisonment of conscientious objectors
Several Israelis, both men and women, who refused to serve in the army because they opposed Israel's occupation of the Occupied Territories, were imprisoned for up to four months. They were prisoners of conscience.

• Uri Natan, aged 18, served eight consecutive prison sentences totalling five months for refusing to be drafted because of his conscientious objection to Israel's military occupation of the Occupied Territories.

Violations of economic and social rights
Israel continued to expand illegal Israeli settlements and stepped up construction of a 700-km fence/wall, 80 per cent of which runs inside the occupied West Bank, including in and around East Jerusalem. Large areas of Palestinian land were seized and utilized for this purpose. The fence/wall and more than 500 Israeli army checkpoints and blockades throughout the West Bank increasingly confined Palestinians to restricted areas and denied them freedom of movement between towns and villages within the Occupied Territories. Many Palestinians were cut off from their farmland, their main source of livelihood, or could not freely access their workplaces, education, health facilities and other services.
Further discriminatory measures were put in place to enforce the system of segregated roads and checkpoints for Israelis and Palestinians. In November the Israeli army issued an order prohibiting Israelis from using their vehicles to transport Palestinians in the West Bank, where many roads or stretches of road are prohibited to Palestinians and reserved for use by Israelis - mainly the 450,000 Israeli settlers who live in the West Bank. In the Gaza Strip, the Rafah crossing to Egypt, the only entry and exit point for the 1.5 million Palestinian residents, was kept completely or partially closed by the Israeli authorities for most of the year. The passage of goods was similarly restricted by the Israeli authorities' frequent and prolonged closures of the Karni merchandise crossing, the only one they permit.
The damaging impact of the prolonged blockades and movement restrictions was compounded by the Israeli authorities' confiscation of tax duties due to the PA - some US$50 million a month, equivalent to half of the PA's administration budget. As a result, humanitarian conditions in the Occupied Territories deteriorated to an unprecedented level, marked by a rise in extreme poverty, food aid dependency, high unemployment, malnutrition and other health problems among the Palestinian population.
The destruction of Palestinian infrastructure by Israeli forces caused long-term damage and additional humanitarian challenges. In June the Israeli bombardment of the Gaza Strip's only power plant, which supplied electricity to half of the area's inhabitants, as well as Israel's destruction of bridges, roads, and water and sewage networks, caused the population to be without electricity for most of the day throughout the hottest months of the year and interfered with water supplies. Israeli forces also bombed and destroyed several PA ministries in the Gaza Strip and other buildings housing charities and institutions reportedly linked to Hamas. These attacks destroyed or damaged scores of residential properties, rendering hundreds of Palestinians homeless.
Other Palestinians were made homeless when Israeli forces bulldozed their houses in the West Bank, including in the East Jerusalem area, on the grounds that they had been built without licences which the Israeli authorities require but make it impossible in those areas for Palestinians to obtain. The same reason was invoked to destroy tens of homes of Israeli Arab Bedouins in unrecognized Bedouin villages in the south of Israel, which the Israeli authorities intend to uproot.


Visits

AI delegations visited Israel and the Occupied Territories in April, May, August, September, November and December 2006. In December AI's Secretary General headed a delegation that visited Israel and the Occupied Territories and held meetings with the Israeli and PA governments. She expressed concern about the deteriorating human rights situation and urged them to take concrete measures to end impunity and address continuing human rights abuses. AI also called for investigations and reparations for victims of violations during the Hizbullah-Israel war.


all available on the amnesty website!


Just change the Country names. Have Ireland as Palestine and Isreal as England. Do you think we would accept it

D-Boy

They will just pull out the old Holocaust bandwagon again

meditraitor

Sand wrote: »

I reckon this thread will go 20 pages. The last page will look just like the first page.

Without any apologists coming and making fools of themselves it wont last 5........................ €5

turgon

I dont see why its so hard for people to be objective on this issue.

Look Israel is wrong - it shouldnt be building settlements, it shouldnt treat the Palestinians so ****, and it shouldnt shut them in.

Palestine is wrong - throwing missiles at innocent civilians in Israel is not the way to get peace.

What happening is with each attack the other side become more inflamed and they retaliate, etc etc etc.

Instead what we usually do is get people mysteriously picking one side and then go around with their head high in the air.

turgon

And by the way I wouldnt exactly consider Amnesty International pure of heart, they are highly guilty of taking sides and not being objective.

Remember that time a few guys held up a rural post office with guns and in the Garda operation later one of the armed robbers was killed. Amnesty took the side of the robbers. Dont ask me what Amnesty thought the robbers expected when you put a gun into the face of a postwarden. To get away alive.

You play by death, you shouldnt be surprised if you get killed. Which is applicable to the conflict here.

And I think that innocent people on either side getting killed is a disgrace.

wes

turgon wrote: »

And by the way I wouldnt exactly consider Amnesty International pure of heart, they are highly guilty of taking sides and not being objective.

I would disagree. They are pretty even handed and in the above piece posted they condemn wrong doing on both sides.

I don't have information on the incidence you require, but I would trust amnesty 9 times out of 10.

dlofnep

turgon wrote: »

Instead what we usually do is get people mysteriously picking one side and then go around with their head high in the air.

There is a very good reason(s) for that.

1. Israel kills Palestinians at an unfathomable ratio compared to Israel's loss of life.

2. The creation of Israel was at the expense of the Palestinian people.

3. Given that Israel was created at Palestinian expense, it comes as no surprise that the Palestinians would be angry with Israel trying to dictate the terms of any agreement (which as of late, the Israeli PM has even refused to accept an independent Palestinian state).

4. The Israelis have displaced countless amounts of Palestinians, and have created settlements against the wishes of the international community.

5. Nobody likes the bully - Israel receives 3 billion in military aid every year from the US to bully the Palestinians around, while the Palestinians live in a virtual prison, with no economic freedom and terrible living conditions.

So it's quite easy to "pick one side" on this. I pick the Palestinians side, and with GREAT merit.

Joey the lips

turgon wrote: »

And by the way I wouldnt exactly consider Amnesty International pure of heart, they are highly guilty of taking sides and not being objective.

Remember that time a few guys held up a rural post office with guns and in the Garda operation later one of the armed robbers was killed. Amnesty took the side of the robbers. Dont ask me what Amnesty thought the robbers expected when you put a gun into the face of a postwarden. To get away alive.

You play by death, you shouldnt be surprised if you get killed. Which is applicable to the conflict here.

And I think that innocent people on either side getting killed is a disgrace.

I find that comment daft. If you read the article then its open to dispute. Pick points you dispute and argue against them.Amnestly in this case have reported the facts as seen. But in fairness are you asking we listen to you or trust amnesty. The real issue here is the fact that Isreal wont settle they have a constant need to expand and claim land. This is the real issue and very evident.

The palestinians are only doing what we would do!

arybvtcw0eolkf

marcsignal wrote: »

Well they do say History repeats itself........

And they do say, look out for YOUR OWN before sticking your nose in someone else's business first!.

Israel build the wall to protect itself from murderers sending suicide bombers/murderers into Israel proper to slaughter innocent men, women and children.

In fact, our 'peace walls' (nice name eh!) in N.I. are longer and in places higher than Israels. Another little known fact is that Israel's wall makes up only 3% of the security fence.

As for the topic, I wish they'd also stop the settlements - as do a large number of Israeli's - who despise the settlers as they don't pay taxes, they are exempt military service (although alot serve) and are propped up by the Israeli tax payer and wealthy lobbiests in the USA.

.

turgon

What do ye Palestinian sympathizers say about the reckless killing of innocent Israeli citizens?

And I say reckless not to be emotional, but being fair firing a rocket into another land without target, or blowing up a bus randomly, is being reckless.

dlofnep

turgon wrote: »

What do ye Palestinian sympathizers say about the reckless killing of innocent Israeli citizens?

What, all 9 of them.. 3 if you don't 6 the 6 Israeli soldiers? Compared to the 1000+ Palestinians who were killed?

We see where your priorities lay.

wes

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

And they do say, look out for YOUR OWN before sticking your nose in someone else's business first!.

I am sure you would say the same to Israeli's. Considering that Zionist colonists founded there country using terrorism and ethnic cleansing.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

Israel build the wall to protect itself from murderers sending suicide bombers/murderers into Israel proper to slaughter innocent men, women and children.

What about the murderer's Israel sends into the Palestinians territories? They ought to cut it out as well.

As for there apartheid wall, well there are a couple of major problems with it. Firstly, that they are building it on stolen Palestinian land. Now if it was for security, they could have built it on there own land. Also, stealing more land will of course exacerbate the conflict, which is a conflict over land. So the security excuse for there apartheid wall is a very thin one.

Nodin

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

And they do say, look out for YOUR OWN before sticking your nose in someone else's business first!.

Those walls aren't annexing part of Donegal into NI for British settlers are they?

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

Israel build the wall to protect itself

...and if it had followed Israels internationally recognised borders, I doubt there'd be as many complaints about it.

IRISH RAIL

dlofnep wrote: »

What, all 9 of them.. 3 if you don't 6 the 6 Israeli soldiers? Compared to the 1000+ Palestinians who were killed?

We see where your priorities lay.

We see where you are being selective again.

turgon

turgon wrote: »

What do ye Palestinian sympathizers say about the reckless killing of innocent Israeli citizens?

I wasnt referring to the numbers, I was referring to the idea.

wes

turgon wrote: »

I wasnt referring to the numbers, I was referring to the idea.

Of course what Hamas is doing is wrong.

Still, there is one rather huge difference between the 2 sides. The simple fact is that Israel is the occupier. This makes them uniquely responsible in that they provide the reason for all the violence, as both sides violence stems from the occupation.

For Israeli there violence is maintain the occupation and steal more Palestinian land for there colonies. For the Palestinians, it is a fight to end the occupation and take back there land. Without the occupation both sides lose there major reasons for perpetuating the violence.

This is why imho, I would consider the occupier (especially a colonial one like Israel) to generally be the source of the problem. This of course doesn't excuse the occupied people from there own actions. Hamas have a choice and they choose to kill innocent people as opposed to attacking military targets.

arybvtcw0eolkf

wes wrote: »

I
As for there apartheid wall, well there are a couple of major problems with it. Firstly, that they are building it on stolen Palestinian land. Now if it was for security, they could have built it on there own land. Also, stealing more land will of course exacerbate the conflict, which is a conflict over land. So the security excuse for there apartheid wall is a very thin one.

"apartheid wall" - Taliban or Mujahideen?

'Iraqi freedom fighter' or terrorist?.

'Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela' terrorist?

Your playing with words.

As for Israel's borders, they were clearly defined in the land grab that was the Belfort agreement (everyone but the Palo's done well out of it) - well Israel's neighbours might learn after the recent Gaza conflict that Israel has just put a new price tag on attacking it.

Leave Israel alone, pure and simple.

As for the West Bank settlements, like I said I'm in opposition to them - but I have that luxury as I'm not in Israel. But if you really want to get your knickers in a twist over 'em, maybe you should lobby the Jordanians and ask why they're not looking for the return of their land (but don't mention Black September ) or ask the Egyptians why they don't want Gaza back?.

Or if you REALLY want to look after your own, Lobby the Palestinians and ask them to return the body of Private Kevin Joyce to his family for a proper Christian burial and stop using his remains as a political pawn in their game against the Israeli's.

This beats the crap out of me, the ignorance of you guys. You try to draw a comparision between the Pals and our history, you think the Pals give a rats ass?.

Of course you'll ignore this, but it remains a fact - an Irish soldier was kidnapped & murdered by the PLO and his remains still ie in South Lebanon.

You really think they give a sh*t about you or I?.

We ALMOST had him back home last time I served in Lebanon, but time ran out and we withdrew.

dlofnep

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

We see where you are being selective again.

Do explain? Want to debate figures?

The Saint

Jesus Christ people. This isn't difficult. Settlements are illegal. The Wall where it encroaches on Palestinian land is illegal. It's well established in international public law. That's it. The ICJ said it and even the Israeli supreme Court says that all of the West Bank is under "Beligerent Occupation" and therefore not Israeli territory. I'm not getting sucked into this **** again. I've laid out the legal basisfor this time and again. I'm not going to do it again. **** sake.

The Saint

Please don't do this again Mairt, especially in a lazy way.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

"apartheid wall" - Taliban or Mujahideen?

'Iraqi freedom fighter' or terrorist?.

'Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela' terrorist?

Your playing with words.

As for Israel's borders, they were clearly defined in the land grab that was the Belfort agreement (everyone but the Palo's done well out of it) - well Israel's neighbours might learn after the recent Gaza conflict that Israel has just put a new price tag on attacking it..

Balfour...

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

As for the West Bank settlements, like I said I'm in opposition to them - but I have that luxury as I'm not in Israel. But if you really want to get your knickers in a twist over 'em, maybe you should lobby the Jordanians and ask why they're not looking for the return of their land (but don't mention Black September ) or ask the Egyptians why they don't want Gaza back?

That's just stupidly lazy Mairt. Gaza and the West Bank were never legally Egyptuan or Jordanian territory. Your arguement is mute. Black September is irrelivant.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

Or if you REALLY want to look after your own, Lobby the Palestinians and ask them to return the body of Private Kevin Joyce to his family for a proper Christian burial and stop using his remains as a political pawn in their game against the Israeli's.

Straw man. This has been dealt with and has nothing to do with the current arguement. If you want to make an emotional appeal then fin but it has nothing to do with what the topic is about and should have nothing to do woth the current state of affairs.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

This beats the crap out of me, the ignorance of you guys. You try to draw a comparision between the Pals and our history, you think the Pals give a rats ass?.

It's a bit rich talking about ignorance given half the stuff you stated above.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

Of course you'll ignore this, but it remains a fact - an Irish soldier was kidnapped & murdered by the PLO and his remains still ie in South Lebanon.

Again irrelivant to the current arguement. This is a different conflict than the one in Lebanon. I understand your feelings about this given your position it should not have any bearing on the arguement.

I'm too drunk to argue this now but given our previous encounters I would have expected better from you.

Joey the lips

Just in case you have not realised there is generally no constructive arguement on boards when something makes sense. for example, nobody has successfully argued on this thread as to why the palastinians are wrong. There can be no doubt the Isrealies are wrong. Simple everyone knows it and accepts it in the civilised world the only reason the US does not is that it needs an allie in the middle east!

So what do we do about it! B.I.G Boycott Isreali Goods. Jaffa Oranges being most famous! Jaffa Cakes.

Some common Israeli goods:

• Tivall (Sainsbury's Meatfree Hot Dog Sausages and Vegetarian Sausages)
• Carmel (West Bank) (Organic Fruit and Veg sold in most Supermarkets)
• Tomer (West Bank) (Organic Fruit and Veg sold in most Supermarkets)
• Beigel and Beigel (West Bank) (Sweets and Pretzels etc)
• Agriver/Flowersdirect (West Bank) (strawberries sold in Aldi), but also other berries, cut herbs, pomegranates, figs, peppers, passion fruit, plums, carrots, cut melons, cut mangos and many other products.

Wines

• Galil Wines (The Golan Heights) (Waitrose, Sainsbury's)
• Palwin Wine (West Bank) (Sainsbury's, Tesco, Waitrose)
• Carmel Wine (West Bank) (Smithfield Wines, Manchester)
• Tishbi (Smithfield Wines, Manchester)
• Binyamina (West Bank/Golan) (John Lewis, Waitrose)

More information can be got at

www.bigcampaign.org

www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.html


You will be surprised at some of the goods! Some of Isreals biggest supportors is a major cola producer and a premier league football team.


I doubt many will stand up to there convictions there

Nodin

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

"- well Israel's neighbours might learn after the recent Gaza conflict that Israel has just put a new price tag on attacking it..

Massive overreaction and collective punishment? Thats been policy since 1948. They're just slightly less honest about it now.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

. But if you really want to get your knickers in a twist over 'em, maybe you should lobby the Jordanians and ask why they're not looking for the return of their land ..

....because they're already a minority in their own country due to the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from the OT etc. The West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem was ceded to the Palestinians so they could have their own state, perhaps relieving demographic pressure on Jordanians.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

Lobby the Palestinians and ask them to return the body of Private Kevin Joyce ..

And no Irish troops died at the hands of Israel or its allied forces?

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

You try to draw a comparision between the Pals and our history, you think the Pals give a rats ass?...

Some may. Most probably have no idea about the subject. However, if none of them knew, or all of them knew and didn't care, its still a valid comparison.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

Of course you'll ignore this, but it remains a fact - an Irish soldier was kidnapped & murdered by the PLO and his remains still ie in South Lebanon.

Two Irish soldiers were kidnapped and murdered in 1980 by members of the Phalange. Yet I've never seen you mention the fact. You seem a bit selective in what you get outraged about.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

You really think they give a sh*t about you or I?.

Does Israel?

Did the people who Live Aid was supposed to help?

dresden8

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2007/03/18/story21966.asp

Living scot-free in the US as well.

Nice.

wes

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

"apartheid wall" - Taliban or Mujahideen?

'Iraqi freedom fighter' or terrorist?.

'Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela' terrorist?

Your playing with words.

Apartheid = Seperation. The Israeli's call it a seperation wall. What I say is damn accurate.

Also, lets not forget the Jewish only roads. All I am doing here is calling a spade a spade.

Now, I know many people would rather pretend that Israel isn't racist, but the evidence is pretty damning. Even Apartheid South Africa didn't have roads only for whites. So its pretty clear to me how much worse Israel is.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

As for Israel's borders, they were clearly defined in the land grab that was the Belfort agreement (everyone but the Palo's done well out of it) - well Israel's neighbours might learn after the recent Gaza conflict that Israel has just put a new price tag on attacking it.

By murdering innocent civilians? They have been exacting that price since they came up with the whole Iron wall concept in the early 20th century. Its pretty much what Zionists have always done and the method they chose to use to create there state, by terror and colonization etc. The Palestinians didn't have to do anything to Israel, for the Israeli's to attack and murder them and steal there land.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

Leave Israel alone, pure and simple.

Maybe Israel needs to stop stealing other peoples land. Maybe then the people who they steal from will leave them alone. Of course, Israel will never leave the Palestinians alone, as they want the land there living on and they need to steal which tends to mean having to kill Palestinians.

You see Israel won't leave the Palestinians alone, hence all the land stealing, which is you know the whole point of there state ideology. So kinda hard for the Palestinians to leave the Israeli's alone, when they have colonists maniancs running amok on there land.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

As for the West Bank settlements, like I said I'm in opposition to them - but I have that luxury as I'm not in Israel. But if you really want to get your knickers in a twist over 'em, maybe you should lobby the Jordanians and ask why they're not looking for the return of their land (but don't mention Black September ) or ask the Egyptians why they don't want Gaza back?.

I fail to see the relevance here exactly. What does Egypt or Jordan have to do with anything? I know the answer is nothing and pretty much everyone else knows that too.

Also, the actions of others hardly excuse Israel actions now does it? Pretty silly to even suggest such a thing.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

Or if you REALLY want to look after your own, Lobby the Palestinians and ask them to return the body of Private Kevin Joyce to his family for a proper Christian burial and stop using his remains as a political pawn in their game against the Israeli's.

So all the Palestinians should be held responsible for the actions of the few?

Also, why don't you mention all the Irish soldiers killed by Israel and other groups in Lebanon?

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

This beats the crap out of me, the ignorance of you guys. You try to draw a comparision between the Pals and our history, you think the Pals give a rats ass?.

Well, I can hardly read the minds of millions of people, but apparently you can.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

Of course you'll ignore this, but it remains a fact - an Irish soldier was kidnapped & murdered by the PLO and his remains still ie in South Lebanon.

Which is of course terrible, but I again fail to see how this is the fault of all Palestinians.

Also, considering the crazy amount of factions running around Lebanon's camps, I think its a bit much for you to state it was the PLO who was involved. It could have been any number of groups and your own article doesn't even mention the PLO btw.

There is also, the little fact of all the other Irish soldiers killed in Lebanon by other groups. Why are they being left out?

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

You really think they give a sh*t about you or I?.

Again, I can't read the minds of millions of people. So I can't say I know neither way, what millions of people collectively feel. Oh wait, Human Beings aren't a hive mind, damn I forgot that. Human Beings can differ in opinion from one another. So, it makes it impossible to know what millions of people feel about a situation.

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

We ALMOST had him back home last time I served in Lebanon, but time ran out and we withdrew.

So all Palestinians are somehow to blame for this crime then? Bit of a stretch me thinks.

**EDIT**
Just saw dresden8's post which basically puts a rather huge damper on what your saying.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The Saint wrote: »

I'm too drunk to argue this now but given our previous encounters I would have expected better from you.

Woo Hoo, you weren't by chance at the same benefit night as I was in Portmarnock? (I was fairly hammered last night too).

As regards making all my posts "irrelivant", it just infuriates me to see how Irish people time and again bury their heads in the sand when it comes to Palestinians.

Sometimes it boils down to pure out right anti-semitism, other's it comes down to somehow identifying with their plight with our's (usually these are SF/IRA sympathisers - understandable since each can also identify with terrorism).

And others (you Saint) it boils down to education, and I am completely in agreement with you on most things. But you should also realise that the middle east under Balfour (thanks) was a massive land grab, the Pals done very badly out of it, tried to terrorise not only Israel, but Jordan & Lebanon too but of course you see this as being "irrelivant" now, why?.

In regards to the most recent war in Gaza, you know how much I opposed that war too and how it almost directly effected me. It was sickening & disgusting, but it was also Israel putting a new higher price tag on its enemies attacking it.

But back to the settlements, I'd support all moves to have them stopped too.

Btw, Kevin Joyce isn't irrelivant in all this. His body is used as a political pawn by the Palestinians in getting our government to go just that little bit further in our condemnation of Israeli retalitory actions with the slight hope that they might give us a little bit more of the jig-saw puzzle (the where abouts of Kevin Joyces young body, he was 18yrs old).

.

wes

Jayleen Hot Underwear wrote: »

And others (you Saint) it boils down to education, and I am completely in agreement with you on most things. But you should also realise that the middle east under Balfour (thanks) was a massive land grab, the Pals done very badly out of it, tried to terrorise not only Israel, but Jordan & Lebanon too but of course you see this as being "irrelivant" now, why?.

So the Israeli's are innocent of there massive land grab? What the hell?

You do realize that Zionists lobbied for Balfour? Right? **EDIT** Also, that Zionist colonists were arriving in Palestine before the Balfrou declaration as well? **END EDIT** There not innocent flower children looking for peace. It was them who stole Palestinian land. I know the British helped them out, but its bizare that you seem to think that Israel is blameless in this.

Also, the Palestinians are hardly terrorizing Israel. There fighting them, as they are colonists, who not only stole there land, but is still stealing there land to this day.

It is nothing short of amazing that you seem to think the conflict is soley due to the Palestinians attacking other people, when they were ones attacked by Zionists colonists. What exactly do you expect to happen? When people are attacked they normally fight back.

Demonique

Joey the lips wrote: »

You will be surprised at some of the goods! Some of Isreals biggest supportors is a major cola producer and a premier league football team.


I doubt many will stand up to there convictions there

I hate football anyway, and even if I didn't hate football I hate that twunt Ashley Cole so I wouldn't support Arse-enal anyway.

I'm surprised at Arse-enal supporting Israel seeing as Emirates airlines, the national airline of the United Arab Emirates, supports Arse-enal