Hybrids worth getting discs?

BostonB

Is it worth getting a hybrid with disc brakes. I'm almost decided on a FCR or similar, but wonder if disc would be useful on a wet day. I've felt I need more stopping oomph on a few occasions on my MTB. Or it just a case of learning to adjust my old cantilever brakes correctly?

Raam

BostonB wrote: »

Is it worth getting a hybrid with disc brakes. I'm almost decided on a FCR or similar, but wonder if disc would be useful on a wet day. I've felt I need more stopping oomph on a few occasions on my MTB. Or it just a case of learning to adjust my old cantilever brakes correctly?

You shouldn't need disc brakes on the road.

NeilMcEoigheann

they would be nicer on a wet day and they last longer because they are out of the wet and grit.

BostonB

My black rims are now bare metal on the sides since I got some grit (I assume) into the pads and it stripped the paint off the rim.

steinone

Boston, that will allways happen after a while even without the grit, your riding unmachined rims for either disk brakes or no brakes at all.

BostonB

I guess its not happened before, but I've not done the same mileage before either.

steinone wrote: »

....your riding unmachined rims for either disk brakes or no brakes at all.

Not with you

steinone

The rims that you have dont have machined sidewalls, when they are machined it cuts small grooves into the rim and leaves the wall paintless and bare.

The rims that are completely painted on the sidewalls arent for rim brakes, after some use even clean brake blocks will remove the paint.

BostonB

Ah thanks for the explanation. Never knew that. But thats the way it came from the shop. I assume there must be lots of bikes the same. Its an old bike. But its a good point. Maybe thats why I don't think the brakes are much cop.

Chips Lovell

BostonB wrote: »

My black rims are now bare metal on the sides since I got some grit (I assume) into the pads and it stripped the paint off the rim.

If the braking surface of a rim is painted it will come off no matter how clean you keep your brakes. that's why most metal braking surfaces come unpainted.

steinone

BostonB wrote: »

Ah thanks for the explanation. Never knew that. But thats the way it came from the shop. I assume there must be lots of bikes the same. Its an old bike. But its a good point. Maybe thats why I don't think the brakes are much cop.

Yeah that would the explain the unsatisfactory braking power, the slick paint on the rim doesnt make for a grippy surface, especially in the rain imo.

BostonB

Lets face it, I need a better bike. But you can seen it in these photos

Enduro

Raam wrote: »

You shouldn't need disc brakes on the road.

Couldn't disagree more. Disk brakes have much much better stopping power, especially in the wet. I know this from years of experience and practice, as opposed to conjecture and theory.

The one thing I really hate about riding road bikes is the lack of braking power, particularly in commuting type urban conditions where cars are liable to do unexpected manouvres and effective brakes can be the difference between a near miss and a crash.

thebouldwhacker

Enduro wrote: »

The one thing I really hate about riding road bikes is the lack of braking power, particularly in commuting type urban conditions where cars are liable to do unexpected manouvres and effective brakes can be the difference between a near miss and a crash.

what ever do you mean??:pac:

Raam

Enduro wrote: »

Disk brakes have much much better stopping power, especially in the wet. I know this from years of experience and practice, as opposed to conjecture and theory.

That's true, I know that too. I started out commuting on my MTB which has hydraulic disc brakes. You can stop those things on a tuppeny piece.

Enduro wrote: »

The one thing I really hate about riding road bikes is the lack of braking power, particularly in commuting type urban conditions where cars are liable to do unexpected manouvres and effective brakes can be the difference between a near miss and a crash.

When I moved over to my road bike, I felt like I was braking with a sponge. I've since learned to regulate speed in urban areas and anticpate as much as I can so that I reduce the need to have to jam on. I'm not saying that you haven't done this also. Plenty of cars and people walk out in front of me all the time, but properly adjusted non disc brakes have been adequate for me.

If someone wants the security blanket of being able to stop super fast, then go for, but I'd rather they learn to anticipate traffic and ride within their limits.

thebouldwhacker

When ABS was released in the 'family car' a number of years ago some called it the devils work as people would be flying carelesly around the place putting ultimate faith in the ABS to stop them no matter what and aviod any crashes, thus leading to crashes esp with those with out ABS.
This corner of motering society wanted them banned from cars for this reason:eek:.
My feeling is that disk brakes on bikes that are for road use are just better, traditional road brakes are fine, they will stop you, however the availability of disk brakes (like ABS) to 'jo soap' is a positive advancement and if one wants them they are a safety advancement and have the potential to help people aviod crashes.

I agree with what Raam is saying and I believe every one should learn to cycle safely. Most people think being able to cycle means learning how to balance and not fall off. That is like saying you have learned how to drive when you can change gear and steer (although come to think of it I do know some who believe this) learning how to be a road user while on a bike (or car) is a skill sadly in short supply in Ireland....

BostonB

Unfortunately despite my best intentions I have to use the brakes occasionally.

Raam

BostonB wrote: »

Unfortunately despite my best intentions I have to use the brakes occasionally.

Whatchya mean?

Chips Lovell

I don't know, decent, properly set up, caliper brakes and good pads is more than enough for urban roads. Unless you like flying over the handlebars.

thebouldwhacker

Any way I reckon they make, what could be concieved as, a boring bike look a little bit mean

DePurpereWolf

If you live up a big hill, you need discs, even for commuting.
I go through 4 brake pads in 6 weeks. Not the cheap kind.

BostonB

Raam wrote: »

Whatchya mean?

Can't always anticipate everything. Especially if you lack experience, like myself. I'm still surprised at the insane things people do. I just feel my brakes especially in the wet on a hill could be better.

kona

DePurpereWolf wrote: »

If you live up a big hill, you need discs, even for commuting.
I go through 4 brake pads in 6 weeks. Not the cheap kind.

are you serious?:eek: do you live on like base camp in everest? I think you should get your callipers adjusted, thats a obscene amount, how often do ya change the disc?

BostonB

Maybe hes leaving the handbrake on?

kona

Discs are better than rim brakes. However both types have their pros and cons.

Id go with disc because:

1) Pads last roughly 3 times longer then rim pads.
2) You have more consistant braking, everytime in any condition.
3)Depending on your needs they can be extremely powerful ( 6pots on a 230mm rotor) or relaxed( standard calliper on a 160mm rotor)

4)You dont need to replace your rims.
5)you can cycle with a buckle
6)less leveage on the spokes so the wheel is stronger under braking.


Imo the only pros to rim brakes are that they are lighter and cheaper to buy.

DePurpereWolf

kona wrote: »

are you serious?:eek: do you live on like base camp in everest? I think you should get your callipers adjusted, thats a obscene amount, how often do ya change the disc?

Patrick's hill in Cork, 20% with a turn at the end (so, it's actually going down old youghal road, and then Richmond Hill for the locals).
You can't build up speed (because that's suicide) so you have the brakes in constantly.

I adjust callipers myself, I don't have a disc (yet).

kona

DePurpereWolf wrote: »

Patrick's hill in Cork, 20% with a turn at the end (so, it's actually going down old youghal road, and then Richmond Hill for the locals).
You can't build up speed (because that's suicide) so you have the brakes in constantly.

I adjust callipers myself, I don't have a disc (yet).

Thats the hill some girl got killed when she smashed into a wall off her bike?:(

What brakes do you have? Ive a set of hayes nine that are on my All mountain Bike and Id be hitting gradients like that with all sorts of crap on the disc and they dont wear out.


Build a berm at the end, then youl be able to rocket down and slingshot out:D

thebouldwhacker

I used to go out with a girl living @ the top of Paddys Hill a few years back. Many fun stories of flying down it, great fun in the winter @ 6am on ice:D (oh to be fit and mad)
Cycled up it a few times on a steel frame Giant mtb, usualy drunk:cool::D

Enduro

kona wrote: »

Build a berm at the end, then youl be able to rocket down and slingshot out:D

Oh, if only... if only....

Enduro

kona wrote: »

Discs are better than rim brakes. However both types have their pros and cons.

Id go with disc because:

1) Pads last roughly 3 times longer then rim pads.
2) You have more consistant braking, everytime in any condition.
3)Depending on your needs they can be extremely powerful ( 6pots on a 230mm rotor) or relaxed( standard calliper on a 160mm rotor)

4)You dont need to replace your rims.
5)you can cycle with a buckle
6)less leveage on the spokes so the wheel is stronger under braking.


Imo the only pros to rim brakes are that they are lighter and cheaper to buy.

+1 on all of the above. The weight penalty for a good set of discs is miniscule really, especially considering that they will actually improve your speed rather than decrease it (The biggest speed increase I gained MTBing was the result of changing over to discs)

Enduro

el tonto wrote: »

I don't know, decent, properly set up, caliper brakes and good pads is more than enough for urban roads. Unless you like flying over the handlebars.

Again, experience (as opposed to theory and conjecture) teaches me otherwise. I've avoided several crashes with the stopping power that discs give me. And if you think they'll throw you over the handlebars then you need to improve your bike handing (as I had to myself) to control the bike more effectively in extreme braking situations.

Chips Lovell

Enduro wrote: »

Again, experience (as opposed to theory and conjecture) teaches me otherwise.

My opinion would be informed by experience as well.

Enduro wrote: »

I've avoided several crashes with the stopping power that discs give me.

And I've avoided any potential incident I've encountered with properly set up caliper brakes.

Experience has thought me that people who complain about the ineffectivness of caliper brakes for ordinary road riding usually don't have them configured correctly or are using crappy pads.

thebouldwhacker

handbags at the ready.........:p

Enduro

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

handbags at the ready.........:p

Experience has thought me that people who complain about the ineffectivness of caliper brakes for ordinary road riding usually don't have them configured correctly or are using crappy pads.

My defining experience would be on like for like bikes, where the difference was an extremely well set up pair of top of the range avid mag V brakes (generally considered best available at the time, along with XTR V brakes), using pads that were considered best available at the time, and set up to within an inch of their live by their very fussy and fastidiuos owner (me) versus Hope Mono-minis, which aren't particularly powerful in disc brake terms, and were bought because they were relatively lightweight for disks, and had a reputation for good modularity. The difference, even on road, was stunning. Braking distance was considerably reduced. And in the wet, the Vs aren't even in the same ballpark as the disks. The Vs can get close to disks under absolutely perfect conditions for the Vs, but never ever out-perform them. Perfect conditions for V brakes are both rare and costly in Ireland. I really regret persisting so long with V brakes and loosing out on the massive gains in speed, safety and reliablity to be gained by using disks.

My experience with road bikes is that the higher speeds, narrower tires, and smaller braking pads mean that stopping distance is even worse than on MTBs with Vs, which, as stated above, is worse again than MTBs with discs (even with (relatively)narrow slick tires).

Have you actually tried using disks? And if so, do you have an opinion on whether they are more effective at stopping a bike than caliper brakes in normal riding conditions, where pads may be worn (for both brake types), rims may be worn (because neither are brand spanking new), and the weather is having one of its non-dry days? (That's a serious question, not a smart alec one. I know it may read that way, but thats not my intention).

Chips Lovell

Enduro wrote: »

Have you actually tried using disks?

Yes

Enduro wrote: »

And if so, do you have an opinion on whether they are more effective at stopping a bike than caliper brakes in normal riding conditions

As I said before, decent caliper brakes are just as effective in normal conditions. I could see the advantages of disc brakes on off-road situations, but this is a bloke buying a hybrid here we're talking about.

TinyExplosions

Enduro wrote: »

My defining experience would be on like for like bikes, where the difference was an extremely well set up pair of top of the range avid mag V brakes (generally considered best available at the time, along with XTR V brakes)

Ah, but now you're talking about V brakes, not calliper brakes, and V Brakes are well known to be less efficient. A calliper is like this:

A v brake, as you know is like this:


Having used all 3 types of brake myself, I think they all have their place, but that a calliper is the best choice for commuting -you simply don't need discs. At the end of the day, if the callipers can get you down an alp when you're pushing over 100kph at times, they're good enough for me

Lumen

el tonto wrote: »

Experience has thought me that people who complain about the ineffectivness of caliper brakes for ordinary road riding usually don't have them configured correctly or are using crappy pads.

What pads do you recommend?

Mine are a bit crap in the wet.

Chips Lovell

Lumen wrote: »

What pads do you recommend?

Red Kool Stop

TinyExplosions

el tonto wrote: »

Red Kool Stop

Is there a difference between red and salmon? I use the salmon myself and definitely recommend them

Lumen

Dunno whether this helps:

Chips Lovell

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Is there a difference between red and salmon? I use the salmon myself and definitely recommend them

No. Salmon is the official name. You're right.

niceonetom

I use the salmon ones all year round. Very good.

Discs are overkill on a hybrid, but if you want 'em, go for it. If you really need the stopping power of discs you're probably taking too many chances though.

DePurpereWolf

I have to admit that I use V-brakes as well on Patrick's Hill. It's my commuter bike so it's a low cost semi cheap bike. Good calliper brakes are better than bad disc brakes.
If you are on a hill like me, don't go with V-brakes, you can make them work pretty good with top of the line pads, but then you are spending 30 euro a month on brake pads.
I wouldn't use good quality callipers not because of the braking power, but because of not wanting to deal with replacing them every 6-8 weeks.
I don't have experience with disc brakes.
How about drum brakes?

Lumen

DePurpereWolf wrote: »

How about drum brakes?

My limited experience of drum brakes does not inspire confidence. I wouldn't like to be using them at high speed. Don't know about wear though.

DePurpereWolf

kona wrote: »

...


Build a berm at the end, then youl be able to rocket down and slingshot out:D

The wall is not the problem, it's the traffic from the right that's the killer. (goldsmith avenue I think) You can't look around the corner, cars come speeding out (cork drivers :rolleyes:), even with a brem it's suicide.

The tour of Ireland went over it last year, I paid special attention to their brakes, they had their brakes in all the way down as well and it also made a squaky noise, made me feel not so bad about my brakes.
I have it on film somewhere.

BostonB

niceonetom wrote: »

...If you really need the stopping power of discs you're probably taking too many chances though.

Hard to avoid some unpredictable situations if you are cycling at an appropriate speed (faster than walking) in heavy/queued traffic for 20~30 mins. Theres a lot of nutters out there.

Enduro

exactly!

Its funny to see people berating someone on another thread for not having enough braking power, and then on this thread people are saying that you can get away with less braking power.

Raam

Enduro wrote: »

exactly!

Its funny to see people berating someone on another thread for not having enough braking power, and then on this thread people are saying that you can get away with less braking power.

Yeah! Anchors and parachute brakes for all!

TinyExplosions

Raam wrote: »

Yeah! Anchors and parachute brakes for all!

Just ride a fixie... you can use the drivetrain as a brake, and be perfectly legal!

-I'll get me coat

kona

cheap rim brakes are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than cheap discs it must be said.

A hybrid isnt going to have callipers, they will have V-brakes. I d have to agree that a well set up calliper is quite impressive.

Id still reccomend a decent set of hydraulic discs for a hybrid, ever see a rim explode after being worn down from braking....not pretty.

BostonB

kona wrote: »

...A hybrid isnt going to have callipers, they will have V-brakes. I d have to agree that a well set up calliper is quite impressive....

Some have V brakes some have callipers. Does it matter?

kona

BostonB wrote: »

Some have V brakes some have callipers. Does it matter?

AFAIK callipers will be on a racer, the callipers will only work best on a narrow rim, V-brakes are better on a rim for a hybrid, although the term hybrid is so vague now as everything is called hybrid due to their popularity.
Also callipers will be designed around a flight deck brake lever, so they wouldnt work best with a V-brake lever. Although Im sure you can get them on flat bars.

callipers are also a piece of piss to set up and you can get them spot o really easy. V-brakes are abit more fiddley depending on the brand.


Horse shoe calipers on the other hand.........pure muck:D

magura hydraulic rim brakes are very very impressive.