Stephan Korte's 3x3 Program

Vamoose Killers

I was looking at this over the weekend and started off my first session today. But I'm probably not lifting near enough for this to be effective (powerlifters program)..but yet I want to incorporate far more squats and deadlifts in to my training as I feel these areas have been neglected in the past.

So I'm basically working off my 1RM for each lift, those being 90kg for the bench, 110kg squat and 120kg deadlift. Today I did 8 sets of 5 reps on all, with a 45 second break between each set. No other exercises were done. For someone lifting these weights, is this enough? Pretty fecked after todays workout I must say. I'm looking to put on a good few kilos over the 8 weeks that this program lasts.

Link to program

Interested to hear your thoughts on this.

kevpants

Some say you need to be an intermediatte level lifter before taking this one on. I'd be inclined to disagree with them.

Their argument is that the volume isn't going to be high enough if your 1rm isn't high enough. I think the program will make you stronger if you're a beginner leading to a higher 1rm leading to more volume.

If you are feeling you're doing enough to make progress then it seems ok to me. It wouldn't be breaking a law to add in a few supplementary exercises afterwards. Dips & Chines for bench. Abs and hamstrings for lower body. Only if you feel able for it though.

Vamoose Killers

Thanks for the response.

Yeah I was tempted to throw in some dips/pull ups at the end of the workout but wasn't sure if that was a good/bad idea. I usually have these as part of all my workouts so to go eight weeks without doing them would feel quite strange. Just another thing on today's workout - the squats felt good, as in I could really feel them working my legs. The bench felt light enough - maybe I should decrease the rest period to just 30 seconds? And the deadlift was good too, was pretty wrecked towards the end.

I'm feeling it now though, legs are aching!

itsallaboutheL

Whats an intermediate level lifter theese days?

kevpants

Vamoose Killers wrote: »

Thanks for the response.

Yeah I was tempted to throw in some dips/pull ups at the end of the workout but wasn't sure if that was a good/bad idea. I usually have these as part of all my workouts so to go eight weeks without doing them would feel quite strange. Just another thing on today's workout - the squats felt good, as in I could really feel them working my legs. The bench felt light enough - maybe I should decrease the rest period to just 30 seconds? And the deadlift was good too, was pretty wrecked towards the end.

I'm feeling it now though, legs are aching!

Nah don't mess with what he says to do for the main lifts. It's the way it is for a reason. You can mess about with assistance and accesory stuff a lot more.

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Whats an intermediate level lifter theese days?

That's the problem. It's like a bouncer on the door, if he doesn't like the look of you you don't get in. What people forget is that if you are a beginner, following any kind of structured progressive program will get you to intermediate easy enough anyway.

Vamoose Killers

Nah don't mess with what he says to do for the main lifts. It's the way it is for a reason. You can mess about with assistance and accesory stuff a lot more.

But I don't think I'm messing with the main lifts? He doesn't say anything about recovery time from what I've read (I may have missed it so feel free to inform me).

So it is okay to throw in some dips and pull ups at the end?

kevpants

Vamoose Killers wrote: »

But I don't think I'm messing with the main lifts? He doesn't say anything about recovery time from what I've read (I may have missed it so feel free to inform me).

So it is okay to throw in some dips and pull ups at the end?

Wait a second you are only taking 45 secs between sets? I thought the 30 second suggestion was a bit random alright, sorry I didn't see that part.

With this particular program take as long as you want. Rushing between sets isn't going to make you stronger. It may work in certain other programs but I'm pretty sure it's not what Korte had in mind. Take as long as you need.

Vamoose Killers

Well I did all the sets fine with a 45 second rest so I presume it's fine to stick with that for the moment? Sure I can always take a longer rest if needs be.

Hanley

I've always been skeptical of the program to be honest. The percentages and weights are so open ended. I assume from reading it you use 58%, 60%, 62% and 64% in weeks 1-4.

I've NEVER bought into this argument;

For example, if your squat maximum is 700 pounds and your training schedule calls for 5 sets of 5 reps once a week you will achieve a fairly high volume com-pared to other training programs. When 75% of 700 pounds (525 pounds) is done for 25 reps (5 x 5) you end up with a total squat tonnage of 13125 pounds per week. This tonnage is determined by the work sets only and not the warm up sets (this is the standard approach in the 3x3 program). Now take a look at the total squat tonnage of the 3x3 system. In week four you use 64% of 700 lbs. which is 448 pounds for a maximum of 40 reps (8 sets of 5 reps). The total tonnage of only one workout is 17920 pounds. You repeat this workout twice and you end up with a total squat tonnage of 35840 pounds per week. That is over two and a half times the volume of the other program. The 3x3 system creates a workload stimulus that forces the muscles to work much harder and therefore to grow faster and get stronger.

And to be honest when I see somone making statements like that I'm inclined not to believe anything they say, purely because it makes so little sense to me. I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just saying that using circa 60% for multiple training cycles isn't going to do much.

Also, be careful of this;

Preparations: Before you start with the 3x3 system you need to find your current maximum in each of the three lifts. There are many ways to find this out and it’s up to you which one you choose. You can use your last competition lifts if the competition was recent (within the last 4 weeks). You can also go for a maximum single in the gym (important: use all the equipment you usually wear in competition)

It seems to me he's suggesting that week 1-4 is done raw, and then week 5-8 is done in full gear. The thing to note here is that the relative percentages (58-64%) are of your equipped max, and not of your raw max, so proportionally they'll be higher. Translating the numbers for myself brings them closer to 78-84% of my raw maxes, which does bring it more into the sort of range I'd expect when it comes to volume based training cycles.

In weeks 5-8 since you're supposed to wearing full competition gear you're probably gonna have to push the percentages up again. To what, I don't know, but I'd say between 5 and 10% over what you did in weeks 1-4.

I'll qualify this all by saying I've never used the cycle, but if the working ranges are in the 78-84% range in weeks 1-4 then I could definitely see good improvements coming from it.

Vamoose Killers

Thanks for the reply.

Okay, so using the 78-84% range my workout would look like the following for the first four weeks:

5 sets of 5-8 reps, varying rest time between sets

Week 1: Squat 86kg Bench 70kg Deadlift 94kg
Week 2: Squat 88kg Bench 72kg Deadlift 96kg
Week 3: Squat 90kg Bench 74kg Deadlift 98kg
Week 4: Squat 92kg Bench 76kg Deadlift 101kg

And then for Weeks 5-8 I'm not too sure about...the numbers will be quite high, won't they? But is the above looking much better to you than my workout in the opening post? I must say that I'm feeling the effects of the workout yesterday, shattered!


Thanks in advance.

Vegeta

I wish someone would have posted this 5 weeks ago.

I am just starting week 6 of this program and I have the exact same issues as the OP, I'm lifting similar weight too (you're better on bench but my dead is slightly higher)

The initial volume phase was a piece of piss, its really good for getting comfortable doing the bench, squat and deadlift but the weight did seem very light.

As I said elsewhere you don't push near your 1 rep max for 2 months so you have to trust that the system is working and with the 58-64% range in the first 4 weeks it takes a lot of trust cos it is quite easy

Now I am on the second phase and the 3x3 with 60% again feels too light. The heavy singles and doubles feel good though

I don't have any equipment to lift equipped nor do I need it at my level but if I was to offer any advice to someone starting this who is a novice/beginner(like me) it would be to use percentages closer to Hanley's predictions.

I am going to finish the program and switch to the west side for skinny bastards as summed up beautifully by Kev and see how I get on there for 9-12 weeks.

I like the simplicity of Korte's program but the % range is too low I found.

sunnyjim

kevpants wrote:

That's the problem. It's like a bouncer on the door, if he doesn't like the look of you you don't get in. What people forget is that if you are a beginner, following any kind of structured progressive program will get you to intermediate easy enough anyway

Definitely. I started following a program that was talked about a bit in your blog (this very program), and pushed my deadlift over 1.4BW, from a paltry 0.9BW. This was after a year of poncing about in the gym like a headless chicken attempting '5x5 for confused sheikos'. Didn't know what I was at. Still don't tbh, but at least I have increased the weights I've lifted!

itsallaboutheL

sunnyjim wrote: »

This was after a year of poncing about in the gym like a headless chicken attempting '5x5 for confused sheikos'. Didn't know what I was at.!

New Best Post Ever:)

kevpants

sunnyjim wrote: »

Definitely. I started following a program that was talked about a bit in your blog (this very program), and pushed my deadlift over 1.4BW, from a paltry 0.9BW. This was after a year of poncing about in the gym like a headless chicken attempting '5x5 for confused sheikos'. Didn't know what I was at. Still don't tbh, but at least I have increased the weights I've lifted!

I did? Ok! Glad to be of service.

Great to hear you got on so well. I'd heard a lot of good things about this program, particularily around adding muscle. Did you grow much? I'm sure you did with those gains!

sunnyjim

At the time of starting, I was 65kg. My deadlift was 60kg, but I've pushed that up to 100kg. Now my BW is 72.9kg... That fluctuates though...!