Weight and Times

kennyb3

Posted this on my log but posting it here also:

Doing a bit of looking around and reading and found this link today:

http://www.runningforfitness.org/cal...bmit=Calculate

its very interesting, im currently about 160 lbs (11stone 6lbs) and reckon i can do 10km in 45mins in training (faster im sure when i race).

This shows that if i can lose 4lbs that i could potentially take about 56 to 58 seconds off my 10k time. Thats huge!!

Also suggests my 5km time lastweek could of been 25seconds faster.

I really shouldnt eat so much chocolate and crisps.


Anyway does anyone believe the above to hold true and have personal experience of same. Also i know this is bit personal but wondering what everybody's height and weight is??

personally im 5'9 and weigh 11'6 as mentioned above. i think im bit heavy tho (esp given the above) and will focus on getting down to 11st

shels4ever

Yes but depends on how you lose the weight, Lose it true a good lifestyle and propper diet and not just diet and you'll see an improvment.

My 10k time was 54 mins last year and i'd expect to run closer to 44 now, maybe due to weight loss or training , my guess is its both.

kennyb3

shels4ever wrote: »

Yes but depends on how you lose the weight, Lose it true a good lifestyle and propper diet and not just diet and you'll see an improvment.

I plan to lose it through running to be honest and a slightly better diet.

shels4ever wrote: »

My 10k time was 54 mins last year and i'd expect to run closer to 44 now, maybe due to weight loss or training , my guess is its both.

thats a good improvement, fair play to you! out of interest how much weight did you lose(if not too personal a question)

plodder

Currently 6'1" and 14 st. 11. I was hoping to go from a 3:50 ish marathon to 3:30 this year, and losing weight was to be a big part of that, but I haven't made much progress, as it's all gone off the rails lately

shels4ever

kennyb3 wrote: »

I plan to lose it through running to be honest and a slightly better diet.




thats a good improvement, fair play to you! out of interest how much weight did you lose(if not too personal a question)

somewhere in the region of 18 kg of so. I was in very bad shape last year and only in bad shape now

dna_leri

kennyb3 wrote: »

Anyway does anyone believe the above to hold true and have personal experience of same. Also i know this is bit personal but wondering what everybody's height and weight is??

personally im 5'9 and weigh 11'6 as mentioned above. i think im bit heavy tho (esp given the above) and will focus on getting down to 11st

There was a thread on this here not so long ago - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055417822
I have found the predictions uncannily true.
I am about 10st, 5'8 and lost over 2.5st in 18 months through running.

RoyMcC

dna_leri wrote: »

There was a thread on this here not so long ago - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055417822
I have found the predictions uncannily true.
I am about 10st, 5'8 and lost over 2.5st in 18 months through running.

Wow, about 20% of bodyweight :eek: Was that just running or more appropriate diet also?

Personally I'm too old and too overweight. I suppose I could do something about the latter but, though I love running, I'm not going to amend my lifestyle drastically chasing a few minutes.

Running Bing

5'11 and about 10st13lbs. I reckon my perfect race weight would be around 10st6lbs.

I was about 12 stone when I did the marathon last October.

Be careful how you lose it though....I gradually got my weight down to 11 stone just before Christmas. Of Course over Christmas I put a lot back on and I was about 11'6 in February. I remember the few weeks before the MSB 5k I lost a lot (got down to my current weight) and I felt like ****...zero energy.


At the moment though I am craving food like mad. Seems I am hungry all the time and if I dont watch what I eat Ill be putting a few pounds on:(

kennyb3

I suppose i should restate this, rather than ask people what weight they are i guess i should be asking what weight at 5'8 to 5'9 do you think i should be around? is 11stone about right

Running Bing

kennyb3 wrote: »

I suppose i should restate this, rather than ask people what weight they are i guess i should be asking what weight at 5'8 to 5'9 do you think i should be around? is 11stone about right

For running 11 stone seems too much to me.


I reckon you should be at the low end of healthy on the BMI chart. I think its about 20-21 but its definitely below 11 stone for somebody of 5'8-9.

Running Bing

Here's a good article http://www.serpentine.org.uk/pages/advice_frank02.html

kennyb3

Running Bing wrote: »

For running 11 stone seems too much to me.


I reckon you should be at the low end of healthy on the BMI chart. I think its about 20-21 but its definitely below 11 stone for somebody of 5'8-9.

ha ha so at 11 6 now im an absolute fatty!!

Running Bing

kennyb3 wrote: »

ha ha so at 11 6 now im an absolute fatty!!

In running terms...by every day standards your a picture of health:D

Personally I dont like the skeletal runner look. I dont mind sacrificing if it means better times but I would never like to be too thin.

Woddle

I'm 5ft9 and 11 and a half. Now I know in running circles I'm carrying too much weight. At the recent graded meet I was by far the biggest but outside of running I would say I look fine, not fat.
Having ran back in 2002 I had my weight down to 9 and a half stone and I reckon I should be trying to get back to that. My wife however thought I looked disgusting back then and prefers how I look now, but who cares what she thinks 9 and a half here I come

Racing Flat

Woddle wrote: »

My wife however thought I looked disgusting back then and prefers how I look now,

Imagine if a man ever told his wife she looked disgusting :eek:.

Woddle

Racing Flat wrote: »

Imagine if a man ever told his wife she looked disgusting :eek:.

I call her piggy when she's munching on chocolate but she's stick thin.

Racing Flat

I've ran a number of races recently and been about 67kg for them. On Sunday I weighed myself on the morning of a race and I was 72.5kg :eek:.

Not usual diet was as follows (had visitors, was a celebratory weekend):

Fri lunch - curry, rice and chips
Fri night - deli (hams, breads, cheeses, etc.)
Sat lunch - deli
Sat night - chinese

I expected to put on a tad but was surprised to put on so much. Just wondering Was it the food itself? Or was it fluid retention because it was such salty food? I did think my face was a bit bloated...

Back to 68 now...

kennyb3

Woddle wrote: »

I'm 5ft9 and 11 and a half. Now I know in running circles I'm carrying too much weight. At the recent graded meet I was by far the biggest but outside of running I would say I look fine, not fat.
Having ran back in 2002 I had my weight down to 9 and a half stone and I reckon I should be trying to get back to that. My wife however thought I looked disgusting back then and prefers how I look now, but who cares what she thinks 9 and a half here I come

Read the few articles and previous discussion. for me im going to go for a happy medium and target 10'12 or 10'13 - by end of the summer and get my body fat down. i can safely say i ve big dietary issues to overcome - booze, takeaways, a sweet tooth also.

kennyb3

Woddle wrote: »

I call her piggy when she's munching on chocolate but she's stick thin.

Id imagine thats the only reason you get away with it! you can only ever slag girls that are skinny about their weight!!

--amadeus--

Thw wii Fit had me up at 11stone (a shade under 6' tall) which - if it's true is my heaviest ever. I think it's down to cross training toning up my upper body though, muscle weighs more than fat. I would expect to go to the start line in the autumn at closer to 10stone, which would be my normal weight.

ManFromAtlantis

i'm 6 ft and 13.5 stone if i lost another stone im sure itd make a diff but ye dont want me fadin away do ye.

shels4ever

Racing Flat wrote: »

I've ran a number of races recently and been about 67kg for them. On Sunday I weighed myself on the morning of a race and I was 72.5kg :eek:.

Not usual diet was as follows (had visitors, was a celebratory weekend):

Fri lunch - curry, rice and chips
Fri night - deli (hams, breads, cheeses, etc.)
Sat lunch - deli
Sat night - chinese

I expected to put on a tad but was surprised to put on so much. Just wondering Was it the food itself? Or was it fluid retention because it was such salty food? I did think my face was a bit bloated...

Back to 68 now...

I've put on about 2.5 kg in the last 2 weeks since the marathon, Expect that but feel like i've put on about 3 stone....

Sounds like a lot of water retention there if you lost it so fast.

I'd be just over 14 stone now myself, '99 i was 13 on the button , 2008 i was about 17 :eek:

tagoona

I'm currently at 199 lbs.
I know, I know, I'm a monster compared to most of you here.
I've only lost about 8lbs so far this year. I just can't seem to get the weight off.
Last year, even training twice a day, which I know was probably over-training, I didin't get below 188lbs.
I would dearly love to lost 2 st. I know it woud improve my times.

village runner

Woddle wrote: »

I'm 5ft9 and 11 and a half. Now I know in running circles I'm carrying too much weight. At the recent graded meet I was by far the biggest but outside of running I would say I look fine, not fat.
Having ran back in 2002 I had my weight down to 9 and a half stone and I reckon I should be trying to get back to that. My wife however thought I looked disgusting back then and prefers how I look now, but who cares what she thinks 9 and a half here I come

5ft 10inches 13st 10ibs
Reckon I am 1 stone overweight maybe more.
I ran dublin 2007 in 3.31 carrying 15st 1 and paris 08 carrying 15st in 3.24. I lost 18ibs through higher mileage and ran 3.04 in rotterdam last month.
If i get below 13st I will def break the 3 hours. On one hand I would love to on the other I will never win a prize running so why starve myself to gain those few minutes and be miserable. By getting to 12st i would be but if i got to 13st i would improve alot.

Running Bing

village runner wrote: »

5ft 10inches 13st 10ibs
Reckon I am 1 stone overweight maybe more.
I ran dublin 2007 in 3.31 carrying 15st 1 and paris 08 carrying 15st in 3.24. I lost 18ibs through higher mileage and ran 3.04 in rotterdam last month.
If i get below 13st I will def break the 3 hours. On one hand I would love to on the other I will never win a prize running so why starve myself to gain those few minutes and be miserable. By getting to 12st i would be but if i got to 13st i would improve alot.

With a 3:24 marathon at over 15 stone I wouldnt be so sure:eek:

You could probably afford to knock about 3 stone off and I imagine that would lead to a massive jump in your times.


What sort of mileage are you doing village runner?

dna_leri

RoyMcC wrote: »

Wow, about 20% of bodyweight :eek: Was that just running or more appropriate diet also?

Personally I'm too old and too overweight. I suppose I could do something about the latter but, though I love running, I'm not going to amend my lifestyle drastically chasing a few minutes.

That was mostly just running 3-4 times a week, average mileage less than 20 per week. My diet was pretty good to start, just cut back a little on portion sizes (in the beginning) and brought alcohol down to recommended limits.

I had put on those few stone slowly over 25 yrs, so I doubt if age is a factor. And yes my wife says I'm too thin now but secretly I think she likes it, it just puts pressure on her when people tell me 'you have got thin'.

robinph

Is it really the loosing of weight that makes you get better times though? If you were to wake up tomorrow a stone lighter than today do you really think that you would suddenly be that much faster?

I'd say that it's at least 50%, if not more, all the extra miles training that you cover in the process of loosing the weight rather than just the extra pounds you may be carrying.

Running Bing

robinph wrote: »

Is it really the loosing of weight that makes you get better times though? If you were to wake up tomorrow a stone lighter than today do you really think that you would suddenly be that much faster?

Well try carrying an extra stone in a backpack with you on tomorrows run and see if it slows you down:P



Its only logical that all things remaining constant the lighter you are the faster you will be.

kennyb3

robinph wrote: »

Is it really the loosing of weight that makes you get better times though? If you were to wake up tomorrow a stone lighter than today do you really think that you would suddenly be that much faster?

I'd say that it's at least 50%, if not more, all the extra miles training that you cover in the process of loosing the weight rather than just the extra pounds you may be carrying.

im sure that there is definitely a good point in what you say, you wouldnt just automatically become x amount faster but i think after few weeks of being lighter and training at a lighter weight in which you can then train harder and faster cause your lighter. (i.e what i mean is you could more easily train at 7.30 pace and not 8.00 pace and therefore you can more easily run 7.00 pace in your race and also at 7.30 pace your more likely to get more miles in, in the time you train.)

as regards the miles you get in with the time you have available, i think thsi is a key factor. for me to do a 15-20 mile run its 2hrs to 2hrs 45mins at least. Thats a lot of my sat or sun morning to give up. but the quciker lads can spend 30-45mins less doing it. anyway thats a whole different point

mrak

Running Bing wrote: »

Well try carrying an extra stone in a backpack with you on tomorrows run and see if it slows you down:P

Its only logical that all things remaining constant the lighter you are the faster you will be.

I remember hearing a story a few years ago about Richard Dunne on "off the ball" about when Kevin Keegan joined manchester city. Keegan thought Dunne was 2 stone overweight but Dunne thought he was okay and said it wasn't affecting his game.

Apparently keegan got him to play a training match with a 2-stone weight jacket on and afterwards told a wrecked Dunne who played a shocker "that's what you are doing every week and you don't even know it". That was enough to convince Dunne to get serious about the weight and when he did he improved immeasurably.

hunnymonster

Running Bing wrote: »

Well try carrying an extra stone in a backpack with you on tomorrows run and see if it slows you down:P

i've done this while training for mds, 12 km flat route:
without backpack 60 min
with 12 kg backpack 80 min
HR higher on the backpack run and it generally felt a lot harder.

gilmore

I'm 6'2 and 14.5 stone. Have just started running (4 weeks ago) with the target of running Dublin in mind. Dont care how long it takes, just want to get round the course. 10km is my longest run so far, took 50mins and i was hanging after it. Would it be worth my while trying to lose a lot of weight just to run 1 marathon as i dont know if i'll do it again and i'm pretty happy where my weight is at the moment (except for a couple of pounds in the belly area)

shels4ever

gilmore wrote: »

I'm 6'2 and 14.5 stone. Have just started running (4 weeks ago) with the target of running Dublin in mind. Dont care how long it takes, just want to get round the course. 10km is my longest run so far, took 50mins and i was hanging after it. Would it be worth my while trying to lose a lot of weight just to run 1 marathon as i dont know if i'll do it again and i'm pretty happy where my weight is at the moment (except for a couple of pounds in the belly area)

If your happy the way you are why change, odds are youwill drop some weight with the training anyway

Stupid_Private

gilmore wrote: »

I'm 6'2 and 14.5 stone. Have just started running (4 weeks ago) with the target of running Dublin in mind. Dont care how long it takes, just want to get round the course. 10km is my longest run so far, took 50mins and i was hanging after it. Would it be worth my while trying to lose a lot of weight just to run 1 marathon as i dont know if i'll do it again and i'm pretty happy where my weight is at the moment (except for a couple of pounds in the belly area)

I wouldn't worry so much about trying to lose weight. If you're eating well (healthy) and training the weight will look after itself. I've never actively dieted - just cut the crap food out - and I've gone from somewhere around 86kg to 74kg in a few years. The last 6kg of that came off in the last 9 months or so. I never go hungry!

Gringo78

village runner wrote: »

5ft 10inches 13st 10ibs
Reckon I am 1 stone overweight maybe more.
I ran dublin 2007 in 3.31 carrying 15st 1 and paris 08 carrying 15st in 3.24. I lost 18ibs through higher mileage and ran 3.04 in rotterdam last month.
If i get below 13st I will def break the 3 hours.

I did a bit of looking into this last year and came up with the figures of 5sec per mile/kg loss in a 5 mile race. That transfers to around 6sec per mile/kg in a marathon. I've lost 13kg steadily over the last 12 months and this has held true. Using these figures for Village Runners time drops / weight loss actually ties in with his drop from 3:24 to 3:04.

Thus, good news for Village Runner is a further 10lbs weight drop should result in a further 12min off the time, to 2:52.

It doesn't matter whether the benefit is from the weight loss or the training, it just happens anyway.....so long as you are still at a healthy weight (for 5ft 10 anything above 11st is fine for non elites) and lose the weight gradually by normal healthy diet and exercise.

Interestingly, if Village Runner dropped his weight by 16kg (to a weight which an elite world class marathoner of 5ft 10 on average has) he would go sub 2:30 which ties in with another thread ongoing.

Of course the training required to drop 16kg gradually would be a step up, might take 2-3 years of continuous high mileage and then you're in a chicken/egg situation, but who cares what proportion was weight loss/what was training as you're crossing the line with less than 2:30 on the clock?

kennyb3

mrak wrote: »

I remember hearing a story a few years ago about Richard Dunne on "off the ball" about when Kevin Keegan joined manchester city. Keegan thought Dunne was 2 stone overweight but Dunne thought he was okay and said it wasn't affecting his game.

Apparently keegan got him to play a training match with a 2-stone weight jacket on and afterwards told a wrecked Dunne who played a shocker "that's what you are doing every week and you don't even know it". That was enough to convince Dunne to get serious about the weight and when he did he improved immeasurably.

yeah i remember that too. good story. the only problem is this season he is playing like he has two left feet.

TFBubendorfer

Stupid_Private wrote: »

I wouldn't worry so much about trying to lose weight. If you're eating well (healthy) and training the weight will look after itself.

I wish that were true for me. I've run somewhere around 3500 miles last year and gained a stone in the process! Ok, when I was 10 stone in February last year it was right after a pneumonia that had me lose several pounds, but I did manage to keep close to that weight for a few months. Then, after the Dublin marathon I went into "reward thyself" mode, thinking that the weight would come off again when the training ramped up. It didn't, and now I'm stuck at 11 stone.

I can't even tell the difference by looking in the mirror, but the scales are unrelenting.

tunney

kennyb3 wrote: »

I suppose i should restate this, rather than ask people what weight they are i guess i should be asking what weight at 5'8 to 5'9 do you think i should be around? is 11stone about right

Way too much. 10st 5 or so would be my guess - if you're a pure runner. More if a triathlete.

tunney

robinph wrote: »

Is it really the loosing of weight that makes you get better times though? If you were to wake up tomorrow a stone lighter than today do you really think that you would suddenly be that much faster?

I'd say that it's at least 50%, if not more, all the extra miles training that you cover in the process of loosing the weight rather than just the extra pounds you may be carrying.

Complete and utter bullsh!t. Its the weight. Full stop.

Yes if you woke up a stone lighter you'd be a hell of alot faster. A few years ago I sorted stopped eating. Dropped 10kg in 5 weeks and got down to 10st 4 (5'10). Did feck all running but knocked out sh!tloads of pbs from there on*


*from there on to my spectualar crash and burn due to illness and injury- took me about 6 months to get over it.

tunney

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Thw wii Fit had me up at 11stone (a shade under 6' tall) which - if it's true is my heaviest ever. I think it's down to cross training toning up my upper body though, muscle weighs more than fat. I would expect to go to the start line in the autumn at closer to 10stone, which would be my normal weight.

Explains the slow times I suppose

shels4ever

tunney wrote: »

Complete and utter bullsh!t. Its the weight. Full stop.

Yes if you woke up a stone lighter you'd be a hell of alot faster. A few years ago I sorted stopped eating. Dropped 10kg in 5 weeks and got down to 10st 4 (5'10). Did feck all running but knocked out sh!tloads of pbs from there on*


*from there on to my spectualar crash and burn due to illness and injury- took me about 6 months to get over it.

I'd agree you will run a lot faster with less weight , but lets just say you drop 10k with out training and drop 10kg while doing propper training . Would you not run faster with the latter? If that was the case i'll jsut give up running untill i drop another 10kg and i'll run sub 30 for 5 miles ...

robinph

Well someone else who can do maths can caculate the imperial to metric numbers, but does HM's slower time with a back pack match the claims from the original post?

tunney

shels4ever wrote: »

I'd agree you will run a lot faster with less weight , but lets just say you drop 10k with out training and drop 10kg while doing propper training . Would you not run faster with the latter? If that was the case i'll jsut give up running untill i drop another 10kg and i'll run sub 30 for 5 miles ...

But in the second case there are two factors contributing to performance increases:
1) Lighter
2) Fitter

Sersiously - its hard accepting that you are in fact fat. If, as an athlete, you can pinch *anything*, you're carrying weight.

shels4ever

tunney wrote: »

But in the second case there are two factors contributing to performance increases:
1) Lighter
2) Fitter

Sersiously - its hard accepting that you are in fact fat. If, as an athlete, you can pinch *anything*, you're carrying weight.

Ah yes that was my point the two factors should give more progress, but weight is a huge factor.

hunnymonster

robinph wrote: »

Well someone else who can do maths can caculate the imperial to metric numbers, but does HM's slower time with a back pack match the claims from the original post?

Just did them and the OP suggests my 1 hour run should have taken 1:09:17 with the backpack. The extra 11 minutes it took me, could be the calculations being off or that a backpack is not exactly how you would distribute extra weight around your body, even if you were to gain that amount of weight, **some** of it would have to be functional (muscle etc), the stuff in my backpack definitely wasn't Or maybe something else?

I also did the calcs based on my marathon PB and using the weight a sports physiologist once told me I should be (very significantly lighter than I am). Turns out, with liposuction, the calculations suggest I would run a marathon in the 100-fastest ever by a women in the morning if I just lost weight. I don't believe that for one second and I think that the closer you get to the theoretical ideal, the less the weight matters and the more the talent/hardwork etc.

The other point that is relevant in this discussion is the weight for athleteics versus weight for health. Most elite endurance athletes are significantly underweight from a health protection point of view and are potentially doing long term damage to their health by being 10-25% underweight. The example I have used before, is that the weight an exercise physiologist says I should be for running marathons, is not sufficient to have me discharged from a hospital treating anorexia nervosa.

estariol

tunney wrote: »

But in the second case there are two factors contributing to performance increases:
1) Lighter
2) Fitter

Sersiously - its hard accepting that you are in fact fat. If, as an athlete, you can pinch *anything*, you're carrying weight.

isn't that ultimately the crux of it! the type of weight you're carring so when assessing the performance issue height, weight and %Bf must really be the factors assessed.

cfitz

hunnymonster wrote: »

The example I have used before, is that the weight an exercise physiologist says I should be for running marathons, is not sufficient to have me discharged from a hospital treating anorexia nervosa.

A life coach or some other professional might recommend that you have a glass of wine with your Sunday dinner. If you go to a recovery clinic as an alcoholic you'll probably be advised to skip the glass of wine.

hunnymonster

I see the point you're trying to make, but the weight categories for the anorexic are based on the minimum weight required for a woman to function properly physiologically they don't that into account any psychology as far as I remember.

robinph

I'd expect the difference in times recorded between someone racing today, and then again in X months when they have lost Y kgs in body weight, will be much bigger than how much slower they would race tomorrow whilst wearing a Y kg weight vest.

hunnymonster

yes, I would imagine so.

Running Bing

robinph wrote: »

I'd expect the difference in times recorded between someone racing today, and then again in X months when they have lost Y kgs in body weight, will be much bigger than how much slower they would race tomorrow whilst wearing a Y kg weight vest.

Without a shadow of a doubt.

I did say all things remaining constant weight would have a huge effect and obviously if you racing a few months down the road you will have made other fitness gains.


The ideal thing to do would have you go out and run tomorrow with a stone of useless weight lopped off you and see the difference but as this is impossible we have to make do with adding a stone.