Want to transfer a system to a new machine.

Dancing_Priest

Hi All
Here's the story, my company needs to upgrade its server which is nearly 10 years old.
The server's only function is to run a garage management system which serves 10 clients.
The system is running on Redhat 7.0 (Guinness).

Our software company want to charge us E2500 ex vat for a server which is way above what we need
AND another E1400 to get the data and system transferred. (We are talking about 5 gigabytes here)

I can get a server (minus a tape drive) for about 550 euro ex vat with two 250 gig drives running a RAID 1 array.

How can I transfer the system over?
Bearing in mind that the company will not provide me with the means or manuals to re-install the system on the new server.

Would it be possible to clone the hard drive in the current system and have it run in the new machine?

Cheers

E39MSport

Depends on how complex it is, whether it was compiled locally,whether it has inbuilt guards stopping it from running on other machines etc. I've done similar lift and shifts. If you're no au fait with the app then your best bet is to suck it and see. Biggest problems for me were firewalls, paths, meta data, delta management during cutover, seamless mapping of hostnames, tnsnames etc.
If they are only charging 1400 then it sounds like a simple lift procedure. They will possibly expect you to build the environment on the new machine (DB's, profiles, paths, tool sand utilities etc) anyway so you may as well go for the whole show. Depends on your skills and knowledge of the app also.

Hope if goes well for you.

ravydavygravy

Why don't you just virtualise it? There are several products available now to turn a physical box into a virtual one. If its that old, and that small, it should run fine on any reasonably modern hardware as a VM.

I've used this, but i'm sure there are others:
http://www.vmware.com/products/converter/

Dave

bushy...

Dancing_Priest wrote: »

AND another E1400 to get the data and system transferred. (We are talking about 5 gigabytes here)

So , it costs 1400e just to get the software moved to a server every/any time the server dies ( more likely to happen in a garage/workshop possibly via death-by-broken-welder ) ?

Hopefully virtualisation goes easily and smoothly for you.

bushy...

ravydavygravy wrote: »

Why don't you just virtualise it?
Dave

Not saying its the best thing in the whole world ever ever but NEXT time the server needs replacement , instead of handing over e1400 and listening to this :

E39MSport wrote: »

Depends on how complex it is, whether it was compiled locally,whether it has inbuilt guards stopping it from running on other machines etc. I've done similar lift and shifts. If you're no au fait with the app then your best bet is to suck it and see. Biggest problems for me were firewalls, paths, meta data, delta management during cutover, seamless mapping of hostnames, tnsnames etc.
Hope if goes well for you.

you can fix it yourself in a few minutes.

<sneakin suspicion..> a good few new servers have it built in now , which would do them out of e1400 next time. They are probably supplying one that hasn't so they will knock more ransom out of you in a few years.

E39MSport

bushy... wrote: »

Not saying its the best thing in the whole world ever ever but next time the server needs replacement , instead of handing over e1400 and listening to this :



you can fix it yourself in a few minutes.

<sneakin suspicion..> a good few new servers have it built in now , which would do them out of e1400 next time. They are probably supplying one that hasn't so they will knock more ransom out of you in a few years.

Fix it in a few minutes? Do you charge fixed price? If you do then I have a migration I'd like you to cost for me please.

bushy...

One more time :

bushy... wrote: »

NEXT time the server needs replacement

short version :

"Virtualise" it , maybe ask E39MSport to do it wild guess from username he knows cars and about your "problem"

Get new server(s) to host the lovely conversion

If the new server dies in a few years time , it won't be painful at all.

These companies seem to think Vmware is a good idea , i'd presume they're not all wrong

http://www.vmware.com/partners/alliances/oem/



.

E39MSport

bushy... wrote: »

One more time :




short version :

"Virtualise" it , maybe ask E39MSport to do it wild guess from username he knows cars and about your "problem"

Get new server(s) to host the lovely conversion

If the new server dies in a few years time , it won't be painful at all.

These companies seem to think Vmware is a good idea , i'd presume they're not all wrong

http://www.vmware.com/partners/alliances/oem/



.

Sure, I'll have a go using appropriate methodology. These companies definitely to think what I do is good:-
Accenture, Vodafone, E*Trade, Sears, UPS, UBS, Achmea, Deutsche Bank, eircom, Proximus and many more.
I know nothing about virtualisation so I won't comment on it. I certainly haven't come across it on any of the aforementioned sites.
I drive cars btw, my favourite is my gf's e39 and all I know about this issue is what has been posted here.

bushy...

E39MSport wrote: »

I know nothing about virtualisation so I won't comment on it.

Here you go:

http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/servers/vmware/demo/hp.html

E39MSport wrote: »

I drive cars btw, my favourite is my gf's e39 and all I know about this issue is what has been posted here.

YES that's what i said , you like cars and you know about moving stuff.

E39MSport wrote: »

Accenture, Vodafone, E*Trade, Sears, UPS, UBS, Achmea, Deutsche Bank, eircom, Proximus and many more.
I know nothing about virtualisation so I won't comment on it. I certainly haven't come across it on any of the aforementioned sites.

It may not be suitable at all for them , but it could save them energy , money , time , downtime.

Saving energy is good and they might get tax back or something .

E39MSport

maybe ask E39MSport to do it wild guess from username he knows cars and about your "problem"

bushy...

E39MSport wrote: »

maybe ask E39MSport to do it wild guess from username he knows cars and about your "problem"

Again YES.

Your username = E39MSport ~ E39 is bmw code => likes cars

"problem" = Dancing_Priest is running software that costs 1400 just to move to a new server

" ravydavygravy " suggested Virtualisation

Once it is converted to a Virtual Machine , the NEXT time the server dies it won't ( shouldn't ! ) cost 1400euro extra.

Now you said

E39MSport wrote: »

These companies definitely to think what I do is good:-
Accenture, Vodafone, E*Trade, Sears, UPS, UBS, Achmea, Deutsche Bank, eircom, Proximus and many more.
I know nothing about virtualisation so I won't comment on it. I certainly haven't come across it on any of the aforementioned sites.

No problem.

I can send them this :

http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/servers/vmware/demo/hp.html

and a link to this thread .

Out of them all , they might be able to save money, energy and time.

Saving all these is good.

E39MSport

"knows cars"

bushy...

E39MSport wrote: »

"knows cars"

Using quotes in the forum can be difficult.

All you need to do though is click the little quote icon under the post you want to quote

Like this :

E39MSport wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I have some illness. No car seems to be good enough so I change at least every year and sometimes within a few months. Me and my type are keeping the motor industry going. As soon as a rattle identifies itself or something minor goes wrong I want rid. I have a stupid theory that expensive must be better but that is folly. Someone help me. I am the bane of the dealership after they take my money. I return time after time with problem after problem. I get them resolved until the vehicle is better than a new one and then must sell it as i believe that it is a piece of crap. anyone else suffer from this? Should I speak to someone about my childhood

E39MSport

Excellent work there. You "know" stuff.

ravydavygravy

Back on topic: We've used virtualisation to get us out of a few holes in the past with old servers where data/app migration was gonna be a real pain or simply impossible.

Its easy, heres the basic and cheap idea:

1) You install an application on the old server (or sometimes on a server which can access the old server) which will make an image of the server and convert it to a virtual hard drive (a big file) - it the VMware case, this is called p2v (physical to virtual), and I believe its free to download.

2) On your new server, install the free version of your chosen virtual server software (Vmware, Xen or MS Virtual Server) - As you are only hosting a single VM, you won't need the fancy features of the expensive versions.

3) Turn off the old server.

4) Move the virtual hard disk from step 1 onto the new virtual server, and start it up - the virtual version of the old server should start up with its same IP address, etc... To the end user, it should seem the same.

5) Have a martini

Hope this helps, its pretty easy once you get going. It should work a charm.

Dave

E39MSport

Can you continue to access the app as before for patching etc or does the virtualisation take some sort of working snapshot?

bushy...

ravydavygravy wrote: »

the virtual version of the old server should start up with its same IP address, etc... To the end user, it should seem the same.

I don't use it much or for that sort of craic though

ravydavygravy

E39MSport wrote: »

Can you continue to access the app as before for patching etc or does the virtualisation take some sort of working snapshot?

Bit confused as to what you mean - the virtal hard disk is a snapshot of the old server at that point in time, but once you turn it on and have it running as a virtual server, you can continue to patch the VM or do anything you want to it really. If you didn't know it was a VM, you probably wouldn't notice - it would seem to be the same machine (except now its running on new hardware, virtually)

druidhill

ravydavygravy wrote: »

Back on topic: We've used virtualisation to get us out of a few holes in the past with old servers where data/app migration was gonna be a real pain or simply impossible.

Its easy, heres the basic and cheap idea:

1) You install an application on the old server (or sometimes on a server which can access the old server) which will make an image of the server and convert it to a virtual hard drive (a big file) - it the VMware case, this is called p2v (physical to virtual), and I believe its free to download.

2) On your new server, install the free version of your chosen virtual server software (Vmware, Xen or MS Virtual Server) - As you are only hosting a single VM, you won't need the fancy features of the expensive versions.

3) Turn off the old server.

4) Move the virtual hard disk from step 1 onto the new virtual server, and start it up - the virtual version of the old server should start up with its same IP address, etc... To the end user, it should seem the same.

5) Have a martini

Hope this helps, its pretty easy once you get going. It should work a charm.

Dave

Hi,

search the forums and came across this thread - am looking to do the same thing and wondering if the steps described above are still applicable. Hoping to use xenserver on host and convert physical Linux server.

Thanks.

opus

druidhill wrote: »

Hi,

search the forums and came across this thread - am looking to do the same thing and wondering if the steps described above are still applicable. Hoping to use xenserver on host and convert physical Linux server.

Thanks.

Can't comment on xensever but the vmware option is still there, it's now called Converter and I've used it myself to move from aging servers to vm's under ESXi. One handy trick is that if you've node locked licenses you can just change the MAC address in the VM to match the old one.

spynappels

druidhill wrote: »

Hi,

search the forums and came across this thread - am looking to do the same thing and wondering if the steps described above are still applicable. Hoping to use xenserver on host and convert physical Linux server.

Thanks.

Should be fine, just check your distro. Xenserver supports RHEL and would probably work with others but I had a harder time getting Ubuntu to run.

As for Solaris.......... they even call their support for it "experimental".

druidhill

Thanks for the replies, might actually look at vmware instead (vSphere Hypervisor/ESXi with converter), although there seems to be problems with converter running very slow. Any personal experience and workarounds on that, I'd appreciate the input.

I have a related issue, but I'll create a seperate post.

Thanks again.

azzeretti

druidhill wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, might actually look at vmware instead (vSphere Hypervisor/ESXi with converter), although there seems to be problems with converter running very slow. Any personal experience and workarounds on that, I'd appreciate the input.

I have a related issue, but I'll create a seperate post.

Thanks again.

ESXi is free for up to 4 VMs. so no overhead there. The slow conversion - I have seen this on many occasions and usually the problem was the OS and version of converter. I usually got around it by dropping down to an earlier version of the software.

I would use KVM though if I was you. There are p2v tools for KVM too and IMO it's better supported and more stable than Zen.

niallb

I've used KVM for virtualising several very different systems and it's good to work with.
To perform the p2v part, I've often used clonezilla.
Boot the original machine from a clonezilla CD/USB key and run a backup of the disks to a network share.
Boot the virtual machine from a virtual copy of the CD and restore from the same location.
Depending on your OS and software, you may have HAL issues or MAC addresses to match up,
but you'll have those no matter which tools you use. Linux servers are likely to migrate without serious effort.
Be wary if the original machine had IDE drives, as you may need to update the /etc/fstab file from hd to sd entries.
If it uses LABEL or UUID identification that won't be a problem.

There's a great host operating system based on Debian which supports KVM and also OpenVZ containers.
It's called Proxmox VE and has a very good web based frontend for management which might suit you.

Proxmox requires a 64 bit processor and the more memory the better, but I've run it on a machine with 2GB of RAM for a small number of simple VMs. 4GB or more is obviously going to be more flexible. It's free to download. It also doesn't require you to run a management console on another machine, so doubly handy if you don't otherwise have a windows machine around.

mr kr0nik

druidhill wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, might actually look at vmware instead (vSphere Hypervisor/ESXi with converter), although there seems to be problems with converter running very slow. Any personal experience and workarounds on that, I'd appreciate the input.

I have a related issue, but I'll create a seperate post.

Thanks again.

not sure what running slow means when you're converting (apart from the obvious) but..

1. you convert on the fly (i.e. leave the old PC running when the conversion happens)
2. once the conversion is completed that's it, no more converting (just running on local - newer - hardware).

i've done it loads of times here and no-one has noticed, I've been able to turn off all the old hardware (still rack mounted). Come to think of it, it went so well I never, as they say, "got the kudos" afterwards.

Give converter a go, it won't do any harm (you can set the new image now to power on once its completed. best bet is to use a dedicated PC for the conversion and have it connected close (same LAN ideally) as the server you want to convert over.