European Election Profiler

TristanPeter

I don't know if this has already been put up on Boards, or not. I can't see it so here's a link to an online profiler re. political parties.

I thought it was good. Takes 5 minutes only.

http://www.euprofiler.eu/

PopeBuckfastXVI

Cool link! Apparently I'm closest to the Danish Social Democrats!

P. Breathnach

I don't take these things too seriously, but I had some time to waste, and went through it. It places me very close to the party I am likely to vote for in the forthcoming polls.

How do they know where Libertas, the policy-free party, stands?

Dob74

TristanPeter wrote: »

I don't know if this has already been put up on Boards, or not. I can't see it so here's a link to an online profiler re. political parties.

I thought it was good. Takes 5 minutes only.

http://www.euprofiler.eu/

Very interesting.
What amazed me is that nearly all our main politial parties want Turkey in the EU.
Definately voting no to Lisbon next time out.

molloyjh

Apparently I'm pretty much in between the Greens Labour and FG/FF. Pretty much where I though I was really. Pro-EU left of centre.

P. Breathnach

Dob74 wrote: »

Very interesting.
What amazed me is that nearly all our main politial parties want Turkey in the EU.
Definately voting no to Lisbon next time out.

Why?

Dob74

We have seen the influx of eastern europeans over the last 5 years.
I would hate to imagine what will happen when they let 100 million Turks in.
Our immigration policy is a joke. We are issueing 100k PPS numbers a year to foreign workers when unemployment is rising.
An irish government will never have the courage to take on such a difficult issue.
The special interest groups will win out, while the silent majority get squeezed.

Manach

It seems I'm fairly close to the DUP policies .... mmm.

P. Breathnach

Dob74 wrote: »

... The special interest groups will win out, while the silent majority get squeezed.

So you reckon that the silent majority are xenophobes.

Funny: it looks to me as if the xenophobes in Ireland are far from being silent.

molloyjh

Dob74 wrote: »

We have seen the influx of eastern europeans over the last 5 years.
I would hate to imagine what will happen when they let 100 million Turks in.
Our immigration policy is a joke. We are issueing 100k PPS numbers a year to foreign workers when unemployment is rising.
An irish government will never have the courage to take on such a difficult issue.
The special interest groups will win out, while the silent majority get squeezed.

Yes how dare people from other countries come here looking for work. It's not like the Irish have ever done that! :rolleyes:

Unemployment has only been rising for the last year so I'm not sure how you've arrived at your "100k PPS numbers a year to foreign workers when unemployment is rising". It also begs the question that if we were in fact doing that, why is it that the jobs exist in the first place for them to take? Why aren't they being filled by the unemployed Irish?

The simple fact of that matter is that as members of the EU we are free to work in any EU country we choose. And many Irish have indeed moved abroad to do so. I know a good few myself who have. Who are we to take advantage of that and deny it to others when it doesn't suit us? Would you be in favour of kicking some of those "leeching" member states out of the EU to "rectify" the issue? If so please bear in mind that Ireland is still a net benefactor of the EU and as such we have been "leeching" from other member states for decades now.

Dob74

P. Breathnach wrote: »

So you reckon that the silent majority are xenophobes.

Funny: it looks to me as if the xenophobes in Ireland are far from being silent.

Oh what a surprise if you are not in favour of mass immigration you are racist.
Why cant people talk about immigration with out bringing race into it.

Dob74

molloyjh wrote: »

Yes how dare people from other countries come here looking for work. It's not like the Irish have ever done that! :rolleyes:

Unemployment has only been rising for the last year so I'm not sure how you've arrived at your "100k PPS numbers a year to foreign workers when unemployment is rising". It also begs the question that if we were in fact doing that, why is it that the jobs exist in the first place for them to take? Why aren't they being filled by the unemployed Irish?

The simple fact of that matter is that as members of the EU we are free to work in any EU country we choose. And many Irish have indeed moved abroad to do so. I know a good few myself who have. Who are we to take advantage of that and deny it to others when it doesn't suit us? Would you be in favour of kicking some of those "leeching" member states out of the EU to "rectify" the issue? If so please bear in mind that Ireland is still a net benefactor of the EU and as such we have been "leeching" from other member states for decades now.

Sweden, the UK and ireland are the only countries that allowed free movement of labour.
Our economy has been burning money that didn't exsist for the last few years. So most of the jobs that where filled are now gone. But the people that are hear wont be leaving so why let more immigrats in now when they are not needed.
In feb 15k pps numbers where issued. 7.5 to irish and 7.5 to non irish.
If we cant tighten up the laws now what chance do we have.

We got plenty of money from europe but we also gave away our fishing rights.
There's no such thing as a free lunch

P. Breathnach

Dob74 wrote: »

Oh what a surprise if you are not in favour of mass immigration you are racist.
Why cant people talk about immigration with out bringing race into it.

I didn't bring race into it. I mentioned xenophobia, and it's not the same thing.

If you want to advocate anti-immigration policies, you need to learn the appropriate vocabulary.

[Interesting fact: immigrants are foreigners.]

TristanPeter

My profile pretty much matched Fine Gael polocies (according to this profiler at least) which I find kind of strange. I never liked them, especially Enda Kenny. I'll have to put more thought into my own preferences but I know one thing for sure, I will never ever ever vote for Fiana Fail I do like the idea of George Lee getting into polotics, so maybe Fine Gael aren't as bad as I thought

Scofflaw

Dob74 wrote: »

Sweden, the UK and ireland are the only countries that allowed free movement of labour.
Our economy has been burning money that didn't exsist for the last few years. So most of the jobs that where filled are now gone. But the people that are hear wont be leaving so why let more immigrats in now when they are not needed.
In feb 15k pps numbers where issued. 7.5 to irish and 7.5 to non irish.
If we cant tighten up the laws now what chance do we have.

We got plenty of money from europe but we also gave away our fishing rights.
There's no such thing as a free lunch

I wouldn't be pinning anything on the value of those fishing rights. Here's a year by year breakdown of the value of fish taken from all Irish waters since 1950:

Year|Ireland $m|Total $m|Ireland %
1950|12.03|114.76|10.48
1951|9.79|126.02|7.77
1952|14.37|137.31|10.47
1953|15.53|161.8|9.6
1954|14.84|156.17|9.5
1955|19.48|204.98|9.51
1956|18.43|192.01|9.6
1957|16.12|173.07|9.31
1958|21.31|196.32|10.86
1959|23.26|192.53|12.08
1960|21.17|224.85|9.42
1961|20.99|173.4|12.11
1962|21.45|206.04|10.41
1963|22.19|204.57|10.85
1964|22.24|202.82|10.97
1965|23.67|242.14|9.78
1966|29.2|271.49|10.76
1967|30.22|204.48|14.78
1968|31.86|234.65|13.58
1969|36.71|270.85|13.55
1970|43.58|289.11|15.07
1971|44.78|321.16|13.94
1972|58.09|325.64|17.84
Pre-EU|571.35|4826.18|11.84
1973|34.86|382.97|9.1
1974|31.87|407.3|7.83
1975|31.29|498.92|6.27
1976|39.29|552.45|7.11
1977|36.39|212.24|17.15
1978|40.09|190.57|21.03
1979|43.43|194.87|22.29
1980|55.48|198.94|27.89
1981|67.49|282.45|23.89
1982|79.71|290.79|27.41
1983|77.27|291.71|26.49
1984|75.95|305.95|24.83
1985|85.94|283.52|30.31
1986|85.47|309.98|27.57
1987|99.72|338.55|29.46
1988|100.26|353.05|28.4
1989|104.36|385.37|27.08
1990|102.87|356.73|28.84
1991|105.09|322.46|32.59
1992|153.25|401.76|38.14
1993|155.2|422.27|36.75
1994|138.49|409.89|33.79
1995|157.79|449.13|35.13
1996|141.47|408.22|34.66
1997|168.29|494.45|34.04
1998|216.86|533.76|40.63
1999|204.95|477.45|42.93
2000|153.12|411.32|37.23
2001|160.66|417.19|38.51
2002|154.32|412.71|37.39
2003|191.39|475.73|40.23
2004|198.02|460.42|43.01
EU|3490.65|11933.11|29.25


We got a worse deal out of Irish waters before we joined the EU than after, and the whole value of fish landed since we joined the EU is $12bn (US 2000 dollars). The research is by a US academic project (the Sea Around Us Project), hence the values in dollars.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

cordially,
Scofflaw

sparklepants

TristanPeter wrote: »

My profile pretty much matched Fine Gael polocies (according to this profiler at least) which I find kind of strange. I never liked them, especially Enda Kenny. I'll have to put more thought into my own preferences but I know one thing for sure, I will never ever ever vote for Fiana Fail I do like the idea of George Lee getting into polotics, so maybe Fine Gael aren't as bad as I thought

Looks like FG policies most closely match my views also. Maybe it's a case of FG formulating policies that will appeal to the broadest possible section of the cummunity - which isn't a bad thing. Of course, it's one thing saying that you're commited to a "green" economy, for instance. Putting that policy into action when you get the chance is quite another.

Hitman Actual

Scofflaw wrote: »

We got a worse deal out of Irish waters before we joined the EU than after, and the whole value of fish landed since we joined the EU is $12bn (US 2000 dollars). The research is by a US academic project (the Sea Around Us Project), hence the values in dollars.

Finally, a well researched website on fishing levels. What I find especially interesting is that France were fishing as much as 6 times the value out of our waters as we were before we joined the EU. It's only really since 1980 that we seem to have been catching up and getting our proper 'share'.

Agent Smith

1. Partija "Frontas" 83,3%
2. Tėvynės sąjunga - Lietuvos krikščionys demokratai 81,3%
3. Evropská demokratická strana 81,3%
4. Sabiedrība Citai Politikai 81,3%
5. Fine Gael 80,6%

O'Morris

I wasn't sure where Libertas stood on mass immigration but after seeing this over on the politics.ie site my mind is now made up on which party will getting my vote in the European elections.

P. Breathnach

O'Morris wrote: »

I wasn't sure where Libertas stood on mass immigration but after seeing this over on the politics.ie site my mind is now made up on which party will getting my vote in the European elections.

Are we now discussing the xenophobic vote for Libertas?

I'm xenophobic-phobic.

nesf

Hah, it put me closest to Labour percentage wise because it made the standard mistake of these tests in overstating my concern for social issues over economic ones despite me being very far away on the Socioeconomic right in the main result plot.

sink

nesf wrote: »

Hah, it put me closest to Labour percentage wise because it made the standard mistake of these tests in overstating my concern for social issues over economic ones despite me being very far away on the Socioeconomic right in the main result plot.

Apparently I'm also closest to Labour yet I'm almost completely opposite to them on economic issues.

View

O'Morris wrote: »

I wasn't sure where Libertas stood on mass immigration but after seeing this over on the politics.ie site my mind is now made up on which party will getting my vote in the European elections.

Just to clarify for you - if you're refering to Raymond O'Malley's call - the European Parliament has zero right to do anything negative about EU citizens exercising their right to free movement within the EU. His call is the equivalent of a local councillor candidate in Sligo calling for a halt to the "immigration" of people from Meath to Sligo. Total BS, in other words.

molloyjh

O'Morris wrote: »

I wasn't sure where Libertas stood on mass immigration but after seeing this over on the politics.ie site my mind is now made up on which party will getting my vote in the European elections.

Libertas don't "stand" anywhere on anything. They hop around a lot depending on what will get them a few extra votes and a bit of attention. If memory serves they were pro mass immigration this time 12 months ago. Just look at their stance on a number of issues in the few countries they have representatives. In a number of cases they are in direct opposition to each other. This is not an ideaological party, unless Ganley-ism is an ideaology.

View wrote: »

Just to clarify for you - if you're refering to Raymond O'Malley's call - the European Parliament has zero right to do anything negative about EU citizens exercising their right to free movement within the EU. His call is the equivalent of a local councillor candidate in Sligo calling for a halt to the "immigration" of people from Meath to Sligo. Total BS, in other words.

This wouldn't be the only example of Libertas candidates claiming they can and will do something that they can't. Caroline Simmons will apparently sort out the Health Service and e-voting in Ireland from the EP.

djpbarry

Dob74 wrote: »

We have seen the influx of eastern europeans over the last 5 years.
I would hate to imagine what will happen when they let 100 million Turks in.

Dob74 wrote: »

Why cant people talk about immigration with out bringing race into it.

:rolleyes:

Dob74 wrote: »

In feb 15k pps numbers where issued. 7.5 to irish and 7.5 to non irish.

Number of PPS numbers issued is not a very reliable indicator of immigration.

O'Morris

P. Breathnach wrote:

Are we now discussing the xenophobic vote for Libertas?

I'm xenophobic-phobic.

And I believe that immigration into Ireland is too high and that it's time for our politicians to do something to reduce it. Would I be right in thinking that that is enough to make me a xenophobe in your eyes?

View wrote:

Just to clarify for you - if you're refering to Raymond O'Malley's call - the European Parliament has zero right to do anything negative about EU citizens exercising their right to free movement within the EU.

Even if our democratically elected representatives in the European parliament are powerless to do anything about immigration they can still represent the views of their constituents on the issue in the parliament. If they ally with like-minded MEPs in Brussels they can form a bloc in the parliament that might become a powerful force for reform. If the choice in any constituency is between two relatively competent candidates, I think the one that best represents the majority on immigration will stand a better chance of winning the votes of the undecided.

I'm sure Libertas is as reluctant to face up to the problem of mass immigration as any of the other parties. If they start slipping in the polls near the end though I can see them using the issue of immigration as a trump card. At this stage I think any party that stands up and honestly represents the majority discontent on mass immigration will be guaranteed of a strong showing on election day. With that in mind, and with these latest comments by one of their candidates, I think Libertas is very likely at do well in the European elections.

View wrote:

His call is the equivalent of a local councillor candidate in Sligo calling for a halt to the "immigration" of people from Meath to Sligo. Total BS, in other words.

Sligo and Meath are part of the same country. Ireland and Poland are not part of the same country.

molloyjh wrote:

Libertas don't "stand" anywhere on anything. They hop around a lot depending on what will get them a few extra votes and a bit of attention.

I've no doubt that's true. I think there are a lot of votes and a lot of attention to be gained in facing up to the problems of immigration. That's why I've a strong feeling that they will use the issue a trump card if they are any signs that they're beginning to trail in the polls [and with the Poles].

molloyjh wrote:

If memory serves they were pro mass immigration this time 12 months ago.

What they were 12 months ago is irrelevant. What's important is where they stand on the issue today. Are they happy for us to continue with our let-them-all policy or are the going to honestly represent the views of the majority of the population about the desirability of imposing tighter restrictions, particularly now that we're in a severe recession.

molloyjh wrote:

Just look at their stance on a number of issues in the few countries they have representatives. In a number of cases they are in direct opposition to each other.

Can you give an example of this?

O'Morris

dob74 wrote:

Why cant people talk about immigration with out bringing race into it.

Just have to read the article in the Irish Independent dealing with O'Malley's comments on immigration:

Last night, his constituency rival, Fine Gael senator John Paul Phelan, accused Mr O'Malley of "playing the race card".

I'm sure you were as shocked as I was at hear of such an unexpected reaction to his comments.

P. Breathnach

O'Morris wrote: »

And I believe that immigration into Ireland is too high and that it's time for our politicians to do something to reduce it. Would I be right in thinking that that is enough to make me a xenophobe in your eyes?

Yes.

I'm sure Libertas is as reluctant to face up to the problem of mass immigration as any of the other parties. If they start slipping in the polls near the end though I can see them using the issue of immigration as a trump card.

You are implying that Libertas do not really have a position on immigration, but would be willing to do whatever it takes to garner votes.

At this stage I think any party that stands up and honestly represents the majority discontent on mass immigration will be guaranteed of a strong showing on election day.

"Majority discontent?" Proof?

What they were 12 months ago is irrelevant. What's important is where they stand on the issue today.

Libertas has no stated policies. It proclaims five "principles". I would expect, if people were being honest, that positions based on principles would be more constant over time that a ragbag of policy positions.

djpbarry

O'Morris wrote: »

And I believe that immigration into Ireland is too high…

Has O’Malley estimated the current level of net migration into Ireland? Because I'd wager that we're experiencing net emigration right now.

O'Morris wrote: »

Even if our democratically elected representatives in the European parliament are powerless to do anything about immigration they can still represent the views of their constituents on the issue in the parliament.

Most politicians do represent the views of their electorate, for the most part. They just don’t represent your views on this particular subject.

O'Morris wrote: »

If the choice in any constituency is between two relatively competent candidates, I think the one that best represents the majority on immigration will stand a better chance of winning the votes of the undecided.

You assume that the majority of people in this country share your views on migration, which will result in a large vote for Libertas?

O'Morris wrote: »

…I think Libertas is very likely at do well in the European elections.

I think you are likely to be disappointed. Do you have any evidence that Libertas enjoy a significant level of support?

O'Morris

P. Breathnach wrote:

Yes.

I think that probably says more about your political orientation than it does about mine.

P. Breathnach wrote:

You are implying that Libertas do not really have a position on immigration, but would be willing to do whatever it takes to garner votes.

That's correct. Immigration has the potential to a major issue in this election and I think there are a huge number of votes to be gained from representing the majority view on the issue.

P. Breathnach wrote:

"Majority discontent?" Proof?

I don't have the time to track down on all the polls showing that the majority of the Irish population want to see a tighter immigration policy. As far as I know this one from the Irish times is the most recent one

Only 27% of the people polled think we should continue with our current level of immigration. That poll is from September of last year before things got really bad in the economy. I would be very surprised if that percentage of the population in favour of continued mass immigration isn't much lower today.

O'Morris

djpbarry wrote:

Has O’Malley estimated the current level of net migration into Ireland?

I don't know. I don't know if anyone has estimated it. We have the PPS numbers so we have an idea of the number of people coming into the country but I don't know if anyone has yet worked out whether more people are leaving the country than entering it. Do you know of any estimates that have been made on this?

djpbarry wrote:

Because I'd wager that we're experiencing net emigration right now.

Really, do you have anything to back that up?

djpbarry wrote:

Most politicians do represent the views of their electorate, for the most part. They just don’t represent your views on this particular subject.

And why do you think that is?

djpbarry wrote:

You assume that the majority of people in this country share your views on migration, which will result in a large vote for Libertas?

Correct. I'm assuming that most Irish people are xenophobic little-Irelanders like myself. I think the results of the poll in the Irish Times and the result of last year's Lisbon referendum is evidence of that.

djpbarry wrote:

I think you are likely to be disappointed. Do you have any evidence that Libertas enjoy a significant level of support?

I don't know what the state of the parties is at all. In the current economic climate though I'm fairly sure that any party promising to do something about immigration will be certain to see a huge increase in the number of votes flying in their direction.

djpbarry

O'Morris wrote: »

Only 27% of the people polled think we should continue with our current level of immigration.

That's not what the findings stated at all.

What is our current level of (net) immigration anyway? If, as you claim, it's such a big election issue, then surely there must be plenty of up-to-date statistics available on the subject?

djpbarry

O'Morris wrote: »

We have the PPS numbers so we have an idea of the number of people coming into the country…

No, we don’t; I’m tired of pointing out the disconnect between immigration and PPS numbers.

O'Morris wrote: »

Do you know of any estimates that have been made on this?

The most recent estimates I have seen came from the ESRI’s QEC in December 2008, which predicted net emigration of 50,000 in 2009. Their most recent QEC (April 2009) most likely contains a revision of this figure, but it is not freely available yet (it will be at the end of this month).

I’m also basing this on personal experience – I know quite a few people, both Irish and non-Irish, who have left the country recently or who are planning to do so in the near future.

O'Morris wrote: »

I'm assuming that most Irish people are xenophobic little-Irelanders like myself.

I think you are beyond delusional if you think that most Irish people would share views such as this:

O'Morris wrote: »

djpbarry wrote: »

The only way the “Irish race” can be “preserved” is if all “ethnic Irish” men are forced to have lots of kids with “ethnic Irish” women.

I would prefer "encouraged" rather than "forced". Patriotic people like myself consider it our duty to have big families with ethnic Irish women to keep the flame of the gael burning into the 22nd.

O'Morris wrote: »

In the current economic climate though I'm fairly sure that any party promising to do something about immigration will be certain to see a huge increase in the number of votes flying in their direction.

So do you expect to see Pat Talbot win the Dublin Central By-election?

molloyjh

O'Morris wrote: »

What they were 12 months ago is irrelevant. What's important is where they stand on the issue today.

Total rubbish. It doesn't matter a damn where they stand on an issue today if you can't be sure they are not going to flip-flop on it after the election.

O'Morris wrote: »

Can you give an example of this?

I'll have a look later at what I can dig up, don't have the time now I'm afraid - says he who posts on the thread regardless.

O'Morris wrote: »

I think that probably says more about your political orientation than it does about mine.

Of course it does. You asked for his opinion, he gave it. How could it not say more about him!?

O'Morris wrote: »

That's correct. Immigration has the potential to a major issue in this election and I think there are a huge number of votes to be gained from representing the majority view on the issue.

I don't have the time to track down on all the polls showing that the majority of the Irish population want to see a tighter immigration policy. As far as I know this one from the Irish times is the most recent one

Only 27% of the people polled think we should continue with our current level of immigration. That poll is from September of last year before things got really bad in the economy. I would be very surprised if that percentage of the population in favour of continued mass immigration isn't much lower today.

This election? Which one now? The European one I'm assuming given the forum/thread/discussion. Now would be a good time to look at the Irish Times article you referred to. The immigration there would be global immigration I'm sure, given that it did not specify, not limited to just EU countries. Therefore what exactly can Libertas actually do about the issue? And how would they do it? There's little point in flagging the issue if you can't do anything to change it after all.

O'Morris wrote: »

I don't know what the state of the parties is at all. In the current economic climate though I'm fairly sure that any party promising to do something about immigration will be certain to see a huge increase in the number of votes flying in their direction.

Even if they are powerless to actually do what they promise (and know they are)? You're being duped by clever (???) marketing.

Dob74

djpbarry wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Number of PPS numbers issued is not a very reliable indicator of immigration.

Unfortunately its the only numbers published by the government.

The same tactic used for the price of housing. No info given out.

The government just want to pretend there laissez-faire policies are working.
It wont be til there is a problem that they will react. And then they will probably make a paniced decision.
Unless you are a diehard PD or own a sweat shop. I cant see why you would want light regulation on immigration.

Capt'n Midnight

P. Breathnach wrote:

Libertas has no stated policies. It proclaims five "principles". I would expect, if people were being honest, that positions based on principles would be more constant over time that a ragbag of policy positions.

Just to remind everyone that the PD's started off as
"High standards in high places"

P. Breathnach

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Just to remind everyone that the PD's started off as
"High standards in high places"

The PDs are no more; there are not high standards in high places.

Is there a connection to be made?

PopeBuckfastXVI

Dob74 wrote: »

Unless you are a diehard PD or own a sweat shop. I cant see why you would want light regulation on immigration.

Do some reading on what a false dichotomy is please.

oscarBravo

Dob74 wrote: »

I cant see why you would want light regulation on immigration.

We're only talking about immigration from other EU member states, which is a consequence of our membership of the EU.

So, which do you want: free movement of workers into (and out of) Ireland, or non-membership of the EU? Those are your choices.

BlitzKrieg

going back on topic...(get your own thread immigrants!)

I am anotheer person who has been spotted as similar to labour in my political position.

though I have always considered my voting in a case by case process so never considered party loyalty.

If I keep up ending on the same side of things as labour I might have to reconsider my logic.


On a funny note, if you click to compare your answer with parties they provide citation to the party's manifesto if possible on every topic.

Guess who has no party manifesto and has *No oppinion* on the majority of topics...

View

O'Morris wrote: »

Sligo and Meath are part of the same country. Ireland and Poland are not part of the same country.

Both Ireland and Poland are part of the European Union. Freedom of Movement is one of the 4 fundamental principles of the EU. Likewise, EU citizenship is one of the core objectives of the EU (Which means Poles coming to Ireland and your fellow EU citizens exercising one of their fundamental rights under EU law).

Only the member states - not the European Parliament - can change that by unanimous agreement which means you'd need a Polish PM dumb enough to stand in front of the Sejm and propose restricting the rights of Poles to move within the EU. A process which would have to be repeated in ALL the other EU parliaments. There is ZERO chance of that happening.

You'd honestly have a better chance of getting the chairman of Meath county council to propose restricting the rights of Meath people to move to Sligo.

O'Morris wrote: »

Even if our democratically elected representatives in the European parliament are powerless to do anything about immigration they can still represent the views of their constituents on the issue in the parliament. If they ally with like-minded MEPs in Brussels they can form a bloc in the parliament that might become a powerful force for reform.

For the reasons I outlined above no MEP from another member state would touch someone who advocated such a policy. I doubt there are many MEPs with a desire to commit political sucide.


PS I should point out that biggest immigrant group in Ireland are the British. They outnumber the Poles by 2:1 and come close to outnumbering the combined total of people from all the other member states put together. It seems a bit odd to single the Poles out while ignoring the British...

TristanPeter

Regardless of the state of our economy or the economy of the EU in general, and also, any impacts the freedom of movement may (or may not) have on jobs, I have made some great Polish (and other non-Irish) friends over the last couple of years. Therefore, for that reason alone I am completely pro-European and pro freedom of movement. It may be somewhat of a blinkered outlook on matters, but it is a very important factor for me personally. So, while freedom of movement may or may not be good economically, surely it is good culturally I am aware that there are, has been, and always will be a tiny, minority "bad element" who have come to Ireland, just as this element exists in Ireland amongst the Irish, but on a whole I believe that the benifit far outweighs the disfavour

In relation to protecting our Irish gene pool (paraphrased from an earlier comment, probably badly) it is important to remember that mixing genes is usually a good thing scientifically and in the long run perhaps more important than protecting a relatively shallow "Irish" gene pool. Reproducing from a restricted gene pool can lead to a higher risk of genetic mutation. So, my point is: what's more important? To be genetically pure and perhaps more susceptible to disease/genetic mutation or to be genetically diverse and perhaps less susceptible to disease/genetic mutation? I'm not a geneticist so this is only my understanding. I'm not stating what I have written to be factual. I don't know enough about it. I have a degree in science so I do know a little about the area of genetics. I'm more interested in your views about mixed races in terms of EU integration. Do you think it's good, bad or are you indifferent? I think it's a great thing personally. Apologies in advance if this is a controversial topic. It's not intended to generate angry reactions from anyone. Just a question

Dob74

oscarBravo wrote: »

We're only talking about immigration from other EU member states, which is a consequence of our membership of the EU.

So, which do you want: free movement of workers into (and out of) Ireland, or non-membership of the EU? Those are your choices.

Only 3 EU countries opened there labour market.(Sweden, UK & ROI)
I dont see why people think that if you have your own laws you are giving two fingers to the EU.
All other eurozone countries do not allow free movement of workers.
Sweden and the UK are not even in the eurozone.
We should have enough back bone to make immigration laws suit ourselves.
IBEC want a cheap workforce but they dont want to lower there prices. So why should we bend to there wishes.

molloyjh

Dob74 wrote: »

Only 3 EU countries opened there labour market.(Sweden, UK & ROI)
I dont see why people think that if you have your own laws you are giving two fingers to the EU.
All other eurozone countries do not allow free movement of workers.
Sweden and the UK are not even in the eurozone.
We should have enough back bone to make immigration laws suit ourselves.
IBEC want a cheap workforce but they dont want to lower there prices. So why should we bend to there wishes.

That's not quite true. All EU countries must open their borders to new member states. When the accession states joined a few years ago we were given the option of not opening our borders to them straight away, just like everyone else. We decided to open our borders immediately and our economy was aided by the increased labour. Other countries opted to keep their borders closed to the new member states for a period of time (not sure how long). But ultimately all member states must have their borders open to all other member states.

sink

Dob74 wrote: »

Only 3 EU countries opened there labour market.(Sweden, UK & ROI)
I dont see why people think that if you have your own laws you are giving two fingers to the EU.
All other eurozone countries do not allow free movement of workers.
Sweden and the UK are not even in the eurozone.
We should have enough back bone to make immigration laws suit ourselves.
IBEC want a cheap workforce but they dont want to lower there prices. So why should we bend to there wishes.

It's too late. We agreed to let in workers from the accession states in the Accession Treaty 2003, this treaty now forms part of the founding EU treaties. If we introduce restrictions now we break the EU treaties and which will result in a court appearance in Strasbourg. Possible penalties would be massive fines, a ban on free movement of Irish citizens throughout the EU and even non-cooperation of all other members states with Ireland (Why should they honour their agreements with us if we don't honour our agreements with them?).

Short of breaking the treaties the only way to introduce restrictions now would be to renegotiate the treaties (Something I doubt many in Poland would go for) or renegotiate our position in the EU (i.e. leave).

NewApproach

1.
Parti radical-démocratique Suisse 80,3%
2.
Partito Liberale Radicale 80,3%
3.
Freisinnig-Demokratische Partei 80,3%
4.
Lijst Dedecker 79,8%
5.
АТАКА 79,5%
6.
Democratic Unionist Party 77,7% <<:eek::eek:



Very near libertas on the chart which seems right.

View

NewApproach wrote: »

1.
Parti radical-démocratique Suisse 80,3%
2.
Partito Liberale Radicale 80,3%
3.
Freisinnig-Demokratische Partei 80,3%
4.
Lijst Dedecker 79,8%
5.
АТАКА 79,5%
6.
Democratic Unionist Party 77,7% <<:eek::eek:



Very near libertas on the chart which seems right.

The first three are the same Swiss political party (the name of the party (& some political attitudes of its members) vary depending on the language of the relevant Canton).

ionix5891

came across this

http://euprofiler.eu/

has a questionare (specific to Ireland)

heres my result

http://i41.tinypic.com/i3f69g.png
or attached below

sink

There was a thread on this only a few weeks ago.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055564537

ionix5891

doh, sorry

please merge

nesf

ionix5891 wrote: »

doh, sorry

please merge

Done.