A guided tour of the ghost train (article on Limerick Jct - Waterford line)

Bards

invincibleirish wrote: »

What evidence is there for this claim as a matter of interest?

Bad timetables, poor service, run down stations, old trains, what more evidence do you need

DWCommuter

And CIE did apply to the minister for a closure order in 2002.

Oh and it wasn't included in the ontrack 2000 programme either.

munchkin_utd

An aside,
has there ever been a debate about the waste in taxpayers cash by allowing busses to compete with a heavily subsided rail line along this corridor?

i.e. The goverment is throwing money at a rail line yet busses are allowed to take passengers from the rail line, thus costing the railway lost revenue and consequently the government even more money in subsidies to make up for the lost fares.

Or a better way of putting it.
If there were less or no busses between limerick/ waterford and cork/waterford then you'd have a damn sight more than 17 passengers per train there.

I'm just being devils advocate here about contemplating banning competing bus routes but I can see problems for the rest of Irelands rail lines eminating from Dublin soon with competition from express busses on the newly completed motorways.

Carawaystick

Why would you ban a more frequent and faster bus service to allow a useless train service? Why not just abandon the train line? The bus service serves more places on the way too.

the first train in the morning to Waterford arrives at the same time as the first bus from Limerick, if BÉ manage ok, then it's not timetabling that's the issue.
I thought all trains are new now, railcars are only around since the 90's at most.
They've dirt cheap fares though as the OP pointed out.

munchkin_utd

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why would you ban a more frequent and faster bus service to allow a useless train service? Why not just abandon the train line?

are you with the bord snip?

But as it stands the bus is indeed quicker and cheaper and more frequent.
The way things are currently, why would you need the rail line at all?

And thats aside from the fact that Rosslares former massive strategic importance as a gateway to Britain (for non motoring persons) is minimal nowadays with the budget airlines now bringing people to and from Britain in their millions.

The emmigrant express is now Ryanair not Irish Rail.

Zoney

The Limerick-Waterford bus journey is one of my less favorite. Do you still have to stop off/wait in Cahir to change buses or am I thinking of Limerick-Kilkenny? (a very awkward trip by public transport - despite the indirect route, train via Kildare is similar trip time even if pricy, certainly more comfortable).

Carawaystick

munchkin_utd wrote: »

are you with the bord snip?

Abso[snip]lutely!
There's an engineerring maxim: "Faster/Better/Cheaper, pick any two" The bus hits all three.

I'd also can subsidising internal flights and I'd force the CIE companies to provide joined up services.

And prevent cie board members from getting company cars- get their own transport or walk, not a merc.

miralize

Carawaystick wrote: »

Why would you ban a more frequent and faster bus service to allow a useless train service? Why not just abandon the train line? The bus service serves more places on the way too.

the first train in the morning to Waterford arrives at the same time as the first bus from Limerick, if BÉ manage ok, then it's not timetabling that's the issue.
I thought all trains are new now, railcars are only around since the 90's at most.
They've dirt cheap fares though as the OP pointed out.

Because the bus isnt geared towards consumers either. The first bus into Clonmel arrives at 9.55 where as the train arrives at 9.45. I know its not much better but it usually gives enough time to get to college or to the town for work.

Honestly if IE close this line or dont improve on it soon, im leaving. To think that in 2009, Ireland still lags behind in infrastructure is amazing. We have about 8-10 unused brand new trains just wasting space at Limerick station. If they wont work with the lines, upgrade. Plenty of people are looking for jobs, why not employ people to help improve the country.

I honestly believe that if Iarnrod Eireann provides a commuter-friendly, reasonable speed, and even bi-hourly connections to Dublin / Cork, people will use it.

Possibly a direct Limerick - Waterford (maybe a Sligo - Waterford too), with stops at LJ for Dublin/Cork

KC61

As I said in post 40 above there are a number of things that are causing problems for this line that are not directly related to it:

1) The disparity between Dublin/Cork and Cork/Dublin services arriving/departing at Limerick Junction means that trains on the Limerick/Waterford line have a longer wait there to make connections. This disparity is caused by the various speed restrictions north of Limerick Junction on the mainline.

2) Lack of suitable rolling stock - Like it or loathe it, IE have decided to withdraw the Mark 3 rolling stock. There simply is not enough stock available to add extra services. I have said before that if an extra Waterford-Dublin service were to be added in the new timetable at about 9am then that set could operate a commuter service from Clonmel.

3) The line opening hours are dictated by level crossing keeper and signalman hours. To operate a Sunday service and later trains would require an extra shift or overtime, and I assume that EU legislation on working hours would enter the equation somewhere.

What can be addressed immediately are the line speeds. The line speed was increased to 50mph in November 2007, but it has yet to be reflected in the timetable. Thus trains are still operating to a timetable timed at 40mph. Granted there are still speed restrictions at various locations, but trains could be accelerated by 10-15 minutes by that change.

The service currently primarily caters for the Clonmel-Dublin market, although one service does not offer a northbound connection. It is very difficult (given operating constraints) to actually be all things to all men, namely to offer:
1) Commuter services to Limerick and Waterford
2) Limerick-Waterford services
3) Connections to/from Dublin and South Tipperary
4) Connections to/from Dublin and Limerick

The line is restricted as a single track line with loops, and this seriously constrains operations especially as there is a very long section from Tipperary to Clonmel with no loop.

The line suffers from the lack of any Sunday service which decimates any potential weekend traffic. The fact that the timetable does not reflect line speeds means that it is slower than it needs to be. And the total lack of any marketing by IE is ludicrous. A golden opportunity to raise awareness of the line arose with the recent Waterford -v- Limerick matches in Thurles. Were any special trains operated from Waterford? No!

Some imagination could improve things, but I do feel that IE (certainly in the Waterford district) appear to be rather lacking in this regard.

Judgement Day

invincibleirish wrote: »

What evidence is there for this claim as a matter of interest?

Check this cutting from the the Irish Times of Nov.19th 1976 if you want evidence of CIE's 'development' plans for the Limerick Jn./Rosslare line. Plenty more where this came from - someday I must put a match to my archives or perhaps list them on eBay.

ROSSLARE WATERFORD 003.JPG

Fear

This could prove to be fatal to the line:


Minister confirms he will receive Bord Snip report this evening

08/07/2009 - 16:04:47

The Finance Minister has confirmed that the report from “An Bord Snip Nua” will be handed over to him this evening.

The recommendations of the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes are expected identify ways in which the Government can save around €5bn.

It is believed the report will advise cutbacks in social welfare payments, Garda staffing levels and the possible reduction of rural transport routes.

The report could also propose the amalgamation or abolition of certain Government departments or agencies.

Speaking this afternoon, Minister Brian Lenihan said he hadn't seen the contents of the report, and was not in a position to comment on it.

Nostradamus

Fear wrote: »

The recommendations of the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes are expected identify ways in which the Government can save around €5bn.

The Government leaving the country?

DWCommuter

And remember that this line is a joke while millions are being spent between Ennis and Athenry. This is a funny fact because the mad priest in the Wesht that made the WRC his mission in life put huge emphasis on the rail connection from Limerick across to Rosslare in his original WRC bible report around 1981/82/83/84/85......zzzzzzzzzzzz!

Face it lads. The parish pump get together dictates transport policy. We've reinvented that dipstick De Valeras' "dancing at the crossroads" mentality by replacing it with mad bastards demonstrating at the level crossings.

road_high

Judgement Day wrote: »

Check this cutting from the the Irish Times of Nov.19th 1976 if you want evidence of CIE's 'development' plans for the Limerick Jn./Rosslare line. Plenty more where this came from - someday I must put a match to my archives or perhaps list them on eBay.

ROSSLARE WATERFORD 003.JPG

A cheaper alternative to the New Ross bypass herein perhaps?! The Green brigade would certainly baulk at the idea of tracks being covered in tarmac

Nostradamus

DWCommuter wrote: »

We've reinvented that dipstick De Valeras' "dancing at the crossroads" mentality by replacing it with mad bastards demonstrating at the level crossings.

Oh that's very good.