Wave Software and Piracy

PaulBrewer

http://prosoundnewseurope.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1204&Itemid=75

An article on Waves Software and their attitude to Piracy.

madtheory

Good article! Well balanced and sensible viewpoint IMO.

IMO Waves would be better off making their product more accessible, like using iLok and selling single plugins instead of packages. They're wasting a lot of money chasing pirates, they're never going to make a difference with a dozen successful prosecutions.

There is also a lot of room for improvement in product quality IMO. There's a cheaper and superior alternative out there for everything they make, except the Rennaisance compressor, IMHO. All they're vintage based stuff is just cheap hyped up impusle responses.

I'm very happy with the plugins I've bought to replace the old Waves stuff. The RN Digital eq is better than any of the Waves. The DDMF LP10 is far better than the Waves linear phase offerings. For vintage models, Tritone Digital stuff is great. My final purchase will be Massey L2007, a superior product to L3 in every way. I'm also using the W1 limiter, which is a free VST! It's a great substitute for L1. Although it doesn't do the brightness thing that did, it actually gives a duller sound.

Waves made the first plugins, and they were great thirteen years ago, but they've rested on their laurels compared to everyone else.

dav nagle

Funny read the article last night! I am going through hell updating to version 6! This is the worst buzz ever. I have phoned Waves in the states and the amount of stuff you have to do to update the ilok and so on so forth for a paying customer is obseen, not a happy customer at all at all.

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

Funny read the article last night! I am going through hell updating to version 6! This is the worst buzz ever. I have phoned Waves in the states and the amount of stuff you have to do to update the ilok and so on so forth for a paying customer is obseen, not a happy customer at all at all.

In fairness Dav I don't think you can blame any of these issues on Waves themselves can you?

fitz

Who's fault would it be Paul? (Not aware of the commercial model in place for what Dav's complaining about.) Is it iLok?

If it is, tbh, I'd still be blaming Waves. They pick their partners/distributors. If either of those is causing hassle to Waves customers, Waves should be making every effort to resolve that. It's plain lazy for a company to dismiss problems in the supply chain to their customers as not their problem.

dav nagle

I don't mind paying for updates and free plugins that come along with them like the new hybrid delay and compressor or the new centre plug in, they all sound sweet and sold indivually cost 900+ they are a good company protecting themselves and fair play but as a customer it is alot of hassle... I had to watch the upgrade procedure video a milion times to fullly understand the process.

Who is the victim here me or the guy that downloads Waves Mercury (Win) in 5 minutes and has it installed and running with no iLok or dongle or nothing?? because he certainly has it easier than me when I have payed so much for my copy.

PaulBrewer

fitz wrote: »

Who's fault would it be Paul? .

I'll let Dav explain that!

RealEstateKing

For their plugins. I mean just because Waves SSL , for example is 'modelled' on a peice of hardware that used to cost more than 100 K doesnt mean they can charge $1000 for it.

This is the same logic as me writing a simple word processing program and charging 2000 Euro for it saying "Well back in Guttenbergs day, you had to pay millions for solid gold moveable type and ink imported by ship from India, so at 2000 its a bargain!"

Plus, at the end of the day its just an EQ and compressor plugin - I mean it does the job and everything, but 1000 bucks? Especially (as has been revealed over on Gearslutz) The Analog button does nothing but add a little hiss - and the Eq is no different to any other linear -phase EQ - You can even set up your stock Cubase EQs (q values etc) to be so simlar to it that they will null.

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I'll let Dav explain that!

I bought Waves Diamond second hand from an ebay seller who forgot to transfer his iLok account over to mine. He transferred his licence with Waves at a cost of 150 so he did his bit and both Waves and I were happy that I was the new licencer. When I went to upgrade to version 6 I was told that my dongle belonged to another user and permission was denied. I have sent my dongle back to Waves who will destroy it and send me a new licence on a new dongle. The entire process including update is costing me 300. The fact that I have to go through any of this type of messing is a joke. How are we consumers meant to keep up with licensing dongles licensing ownership and insuring are dongles for **** sake I just want to make music and slap a nice plug in in the mix.

PaulBrewer

RealEstateKing wrote: »

For their plugins. I mean just because Waves SSL , for example is 'modelled' on a peice of hardware that used to cost more than 100 K doesnt mean they can charge $1000 for it.

This is the same logic as me writing a simple word processing program and charging 2000 Euro for it saying "Well back in Guttenbergs day, you had to pay millions for solid gold moveable type and ink imported by ship from India, so at 2000 its a bargain!"

Plus, at the end of the day its just an EQ and compressor plugin - I mean it does the job and everything, but 1000 bucks? Especially (as has been revealed over on Gearslutz) The Analog button does nothing but add a little hiss - and the Eq is no different to any other linear -phase EQ - You can even set up your stock Cubase EQs (q values etc) to be so simlar to it that they will null.

Butsure don't buy it then .... No?

fitz

dav nagle wrote: »

I bought Waves Diamond second hand from an ebay seller who forgot to transfer his iLok account over to mine. He transferred his licence with Waves at a cost of 150 so he did his bit and both Waves and I were happy that I was the new licencer. When I went to upgrade to version 6 I was told that my dongle belonged to another user and permission was denied. I have sent my dongle back to Waves who will destroy it and send me a new licence on a new dongle. The entire process including update is costing me 300. The fact that I have to go through any of this type of messing is a joke. How are we consumers meant to keep up with licensing dongles licensing ownership and insuring are dongles for **** sake I just want to make music and slap a nice plug in in the mix.

That's woeful.
I'd vote with my feet tbh.

ICN

fitz wrote: »

That's woeful.
I'd vote with my feet tbh.

Not an option Fitz Mate..

He's already in deep as it, given all the cash that he has spent to date.

They have you over a barrel.

That annoys me.. that when you've acted in good faith & are 100% legitimate, that they (Waves) couldn't do a little something for you.. €300?

You are already upgrading - What a pile of sh1t. What exactly are they going to do exactly that costs €300? !sreknaW

Glad to see that despite the recession, excellent Customer Service & value for money can still be found in the Global market.

PaulBrewer

There are a lot of opinions there....

Is everyone confident they have the full story?

ICN

PaulBrewer wrote: »

There's a lot of opinions there....

Is everyone confident they have the full story?

No - Please enlighten us then!

PaulBrewer

ICN wrote: »

No

Exactly.

ICN

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Exactly.

Pity.. In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

There are a lot of opinions there....

Is everyone confident they have the full story?

What are you on about 'full story'?

ICN

dav nagle wrote: »

What are you on about 'full story'?

Hey Dav - Didnt you know Mate?

Paul is one of the Brewersteins from Israel*

jtsuited

haha just remembered when I nearly got banned for saying '<snip>'.

good times.

dav nagle

ICN wrote: »

Hey Dav - Didnt you know Mate?

Paul is one of the Brewersteins from Israel*

Well he would want to snap to the buzz :eek:

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

Well he would want to snap to the buzz :eek:

And who's helping you out of this hole Dav?

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

And who's helping you out of this hole Dav?

You are helping me out of this hole but there is no more to the story than I have already said

PaulBrewer

Zactly!

dav nagle

Don't pick on Pedro he is doing the best he can do for a young potato farmer trying to make his own way in life and get his life together (geez where is the pac gone?) you know Pedro is a very defensive little man when he gets his back up.

ICN

jtsuited wrote: »

haha just remembered when I nearly got banned for saying '<snip>'.

good times.

Isn't it great how the things you say in reminisces dont count! :pac:

jtsuited

ICN wrote: »

Isn't it great how the things you say in reminisces dont count! :pac:

haha yeah, and that spot of bother <snip> in the meantime certainly did me a few favours too.

madtheory

RealEstateKing wrote: »

The certainly do charge too much for their plugins.

Yep! They're shooting themselves in the foot with banpiracy.

ICN

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsuited
haha just remembered when I nearly got banned for saying '<snip>'.

good times.


Isn't it great how the things you say in reminisces dont count!

---

Last edited by fitz; Today at 21:14. Reason: yup, still not ok.

No bans though! Hurrah! :pac:

studiorat

In short order, the studio owners received attorney letters informing them that Waves would prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law unless they agreed to settle out of court for a total roughly ten times the amount of the software they stole.

Heavy handed tactics, Waves actually dictating the terms of the settlement before the court case. "Pay us x amount or else we'll take you to court.!"

I read about this 2 or 3 years ago, Waves agents ringing up studios offering to book time and then asking did they have waves plug-ins? Verging on entrapment if you ask me, ringing up studios with offers of large bookings and then insisting on using Waves Plug-ins.

According to Waves' CEO Gilad Keren, who also served in the Israeli Navy for three years. 50% of all studios are using pirated software. Banpiracy the company Waves pay to find "the pirates" say it's 80%.

Oddly enough the Banpiracy organisation state on their website

BanPiracy is an independent organization devoted to the protection of proprietary audio software.

Independent my ass, banpiracy was set up by one Mr. Tomer Elbaz who is in fact an ex-director of Waves. :eek:

jtsuited

studiorat wrote: »

Heavy handed tactics, Waves actually dictating the terms of the settlement before the court case. "Pay us x amount or else we'll take you to court.!"

I read about this 2 or 3 years ago, Waves agents ringing up studios offering to book time and then asking did they have waves plug-ins? Verging on entrapment if you ask me, ringing up studios with offers of large bookings and then insisting on using Waves Plug-ins.

According to Waves' CEO Gilad Keren, who also served in the Israeli Navy for three years. 50% of all studios are using pirated software. Banpiracy the company Waves pay to find "the pirates" say it's 80%.

Oddly enough the Banpiracy organisation state on their website

Independent my ass, banpiracy was set up by one Mr. Tomer Elbaz who is in fact an ex-director of Waves. :eek:

and if I remember correctly, they didn't just go for the big studios with the big budgets. There were stories on gearslutz about them pulling the 'entrapment' on load of barely-professional guys.

I have no problem with companies trying to protect themselves, but the **** they pulled then was so ridiculously disproportionate that you wonder what the hell goes on inside their heads.

11811

Jez - looking for damages is bit much isn't it??
The charging for the software is only right and I think its
fair enough catching out studios with pirate software - if you're doing something professionally you should have the proper and authentic gear, yeah fair enough its dear but its bad form if your making a living out of using tools that you havn't paid for.