Currently trying to bulk....9 weeks till holiday...when to start cutting?

golfman

Hi,

I'm in the process of trying to bulk up at the moment. I'm eating lots and training hard 4 times a week and am starting to see results. I'm 6ft 2 and weigh just over 13 1/2 stone (86kg). I have some cheap scales from Lidl that tell me my bodyfat is 23%?

While I am completely dedicated to trying to put weight on, I would still like to look good on holiday so I plan on trying to shift some of that bodyfat so my abs are visible for my hols in 9 weeks time.

What level of badyfat do you need to get down to so your abs are visible?
How many weeks should I give myself to shift it?

Any replies much appreciated.

crotalus667

golfman wrote: »

What level of badyfat do you need to get down to so your abs are visible?
How many weeks should I give myself to shift it?

On both counts it varies from person to person, usually they start to show sub 12% , to show them all off properly you may need to go as low as 5% (some people need lower) If that body fat thing you got from lidels is electronic I wouldn’t trust it for a second , my advise would be to start cutting now and go by how you look in the mirror once you get to where you want to be maintain it until your holiday .
One thing to keep in mind is that BB’s often take 12+ weeks to cut so you are cutting it fine if you wanted to do it nice and slowly

Transform

Post up your current diet (in detail) and training - weights, reps sets frequency etc

Blazher

Talking about Cutting

How would one go about cutting?. So you lose the fat and not just mass>?

crotalus667

Blazher wrote: »

Talking about Cutting

How would one go about cutting?. So you lose the fat and not just mass>?

The key is keeping the weight loss below 2/2.5 pounds per week ,there are many many diets that will work for fat loss but the key to keeping mass is the speed of the loss (plus eating fat if you don’t eat it your body will hold on to as much of it as it can)

Blazher

I dont think i have alot of Muscle, But i most defanetly have some hiding away DEEEP below some fat.

Are you talking about something like this http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/crumcake.html

The above diet looks mad. Could one replace the steak with skinless chicken? I am not mad about steak/


OP :: Sorry i didn't mean to hijack your thread.

golfman

Cheers for the speedy responses!

Typical days diet is:

7am protein shake, 3 eggs scrambled on 2 slices of wholemeal bread/ 3 weetabix when there is no eggs
8am Gym
9am protein shake
10.30/11 - 1 tin of tuna either in a brown pitta with sald or with a smal tin of baked beans
1pm 2 chicken breasts on george foreman with some wholemeal rice
Afternoon, snack on carrots or almond nuts
6pm chicken and veg stir fry with wholemeal noodles/ 2 salmon steaks grilled with boiled potatoes and salad/ steak and potatoes

Lots of water drunk throughout the day...

I go to the gym on the morning around 4 days a week before I go to work. Absolutely loving it as I get it over and done with and I feel well fresh and motivated going into work. Below I have written out a usual week. I say I do 5 reps on all of them, if I find a weight easy I might go up to 8. I haven't included Abs on here as I fit them in after my workout when I have the time, I'm not the quickest at getting my ass out of bed in the mornings! I usually do abs 2 times a week doing 4 sets of crunches. I also do a quick 5 mins warm up on the cross trainer before each session.

Tuesday: Chest and shoulders
Bench press: 5 sets of 5 - 50kg, 60 kg, 65 kg(struggling to get 5), 60kg, 50kg to failure
Dumbell flies or incline dumbell press (I alternate)
Flies: 4 sets of 5 - 15kg per hand, 20kg per hand x 3
Incline dumbell press: 4 sets of 5 20kg per hand, 22.5 per hand, 25 per hand to failure
Dips: 3 sets all to failure - usually 9, 7, 4

Shoulders:
Machine shoulder press (I use the machine as my shoulder usually clicks at the bottom of the movement when i use dumbells)
4 sets x 5 Can't rememember the weight but ists not much around 25-30 kgs I think
Lateral raises: 4 sets to failure :I ususally start with 10kg on each side and if I get below 5 reps I swap for 7.5 kgs
If I have time I also try and do some front raises usually 3 sets with the 7.5kgs to failure

Wednesday: Arms and deadlift

Triceps:
Skull crushers : 4 sets x 5 with EZ bar. Not sure how much they weigh but I start with 15 kg, then 20 kg then 25kg which I struggle at. I then drop down to 20kg to failure
Rope pull downs/ over the head arm extensions with the same machine..
4 sets x 5 17.5kg - 20kg
Weighted bench dips to failure x 3

Biceps:
Barbell curl: 4 sets x 5 Bar + 20 kg
Dumbell 21s x 3 with 10 kg then 7.5 kg
Hammer curls 3 sets of 5 with 10kg
wrist curls 3 sets of 8 with 15kg

Deadlift:
Just started doing these so concentrating on form more than anything else - 5 sets x 50kg

Thursday: Back and Legs

Back: (Big problem on back day is my forearms going before my back) - I bought some wrist straps online which will arrive this week which'll help me at max weight.
Lat pulldowns: 4 sets of 5. 30kg, 40 kg, 50 kg (struggling), 40kg to failure
Machine which is opposite to a bench press, seated with your chest against the pad. 4 sets x 5 @30kg (my forearms really suffer on this one)
Seated row: 4 sets x 40kg

Legs:
Squat: I only started squatting a month ago due to this forum - still concentrating on getting form right.
5 sets x 5 50kg, 60kg, 70kg, 70kg form starts to falter, 60kg
Machine Calf raises: 3 sets x 8 @ 70kg

Friday or saturday I'll start the cycle again and keep the cycle going in that order the following week.

I'm playing squash once a week and a round of golf a week. I plan on stepping up the cardion for the holidays. I'll try and get to some spinning classes, if not I'll just bust my arse on the treadmill and the cross trainer.

As I say, I'm seeing some great results at the moment and don't really want to change anything but now as I'm starting to look a bit better the vain devil is starting to rear its ugly head and I want to look good on the beach this Summer!

crotalus667

Blazher wrote: »

The above diet looks mad. Could one replace the steak with skinless chicken? I am not mad about steak/
.

Yes you can

While that diet has the basics (ish) your diet needs to be tailored to your body ie cal’ have to be calculated going by your lean body mass not the guy that wrote the diet

Transform

your program is not great - get some suggestions

slicus ricus

Blazher wrote: »

Talking about Cutting

How would one go about cutting?. So you lose the fat and not just mass>?

Carb cycling is a basis way of getting body fat levels lower. It involves eating carbs only when your body needs them and will actually use them - i.e. Breakfast time and the meal before training. It's something you can do all year round to maintain reasonable body fat levels.

If you're looking to cut to anywhere below 8-9%, you will need to go on quite a severe cut for a specific number of weeks. Maintaining bodyfat levels below this for extended periods is probably not advisable.

golfman

Transform wrote: »

your program is not great - get some suggestions

Can you tell me the parts of my program that are not great? I won't take offence...

Vampireskiss

Traditional bodybuilding programs are not the best for fatloss.You should look into circuit type training.I have attached a good program for fatloss

golfman

Vampireskiss wrote: »

Traditional bodybuilding programs are not the best for fatloss.You should look into circuit type training.I have attached a good program for fatloss

Thanks for that! 18 pages! WOW. I'll take a read of it later although just having a quick skim through it looks like a completely new program. I'm really enjoying my current program at the moment and am probably looking to tweak my diet and add in some cardio to try and get to where i want to be. Although maybe that's where I'll go wrong....

Blazher

slicus ricus wrote: »

Carb cycling is a basis way of getting body fat levels lower. It involves eating carbs only when your body needs them and will actually use them - i.e. Breakfast time and the meal before training. It's something you can do all year round to maintain reasonable body fat levels.

If you're looking to cut to anywhere below 8-9%, you will need to go on quite a severe cut for a specific number of weeks. Maintaining bodyfat levels below this for extended periods is probably not advisable.

Well. I want sub 20% first. By the BMI standard i am 29% But i know thats BS. To be honest i dont know what my true fat % is.

golfman

Transform wrote: »

your program is not great - get some suggestions

Sorry if this sounds a bit abrupt, but you asked me to type out my entire workout (which took some time) and when I did you don't give any constructive feedback on it....?

aye

golfman wrote: »

I go to the gym on the morning around 4 days a week before I go to work. Absolutely loving it as I get it over and done with and I feel well fresh and motivated going into work. Below I have written out a usual week. I say I do 5 reps on all of them, if I find a weight easy I might go up to 8.

Tuesday: Chest and shoulders
Bench press: 5 sets of 5 - 50kg, 60 kg, 65 kg(struggling to get 5), 60kg, 50kg to failure
Dumbell flies or incline dumbell press (I alternate)
Flies: 4 sets of 5 - 15kg per hand, 20kg per hand x 3
Incline dumbell press: 4 sets of 5 20kg per hand, 22.5 per hand, 25 per hand to failure
Dips: 3 sets all to failure - usually 9, 7, 4

Shoulders:
Machine shoulder press (I use the machine as my shoulder usually clicks at the bottom of the movement when i use dumbells)
4 sets x 5 Can't rememember the weight but ists not much around 25-30 kgs I think
Lateral raises: 4 sets to failure :I ususally start with 10kg on each side and if I get below 5 reps I swap for 7.5 kgs
If I have time I also try and do some front raises usually 3 sets with the 7.5kgs to failure

Wednesday: Arms and deadlift

Triceps:
Skull crushers : 4 sets x 5 with EZ bar. Not sure how much they weigh but I start with 15 kg, then 20 kg then 25kg which I struggle at. I then drop down to 20kg to failure
Rope pull downs/ over the head arm extensions with the same machine..
4 sets x 5 17.5kg - 20kg
Weighted bench dips to failure x 3

Biceps:
Barbell curl: 4 sets x 5 Bar + 20 kg
Dumbell 21s x 3 with 10 kg then 7.5 kg
Hammer curls 3 sets of 5 with 10kg
wrist curls 3 sets of 8 with 15kg

Deadlift:
Just started doing these so concentrating on form more than anything else - 5 sets x 50kg

Thursday: Back and Legs

Back: (Big problem on back day is my forearms going before my back) - I bought some wrist straps online which will arrive this week which'll help me at max weight.
Lat pulldowns: 4 sets of 5. 30kg, 40 kg, 50 kg (struggling), 40kg to failure
Machine which is opposite to a bench press, seated with your chest against the pad. 4 sets x 5 @30kg (my forearms really suffer on this one)
Seated row: 4 sets x 40kg

Legs:
Squat: I only started squatting a month ago due to this forum - still concentrating on getting form right.
5 sets x 5 50kg, 60kg, 70kg, 70kg form starts to falter, 60kg
Machine Calf raises: 3 sets x 8 @ 70kg

Friday or saturday I'll start the cycle again and keep the cycle going in that order the following week.

golfman wrote: »

Can you tell me the parts of my program that are not great? I won't take offence...

I meant to reply to this the other day but have been fairly busy this week.

The first thing i noticed about your program is you hit your arms three days in a row!! no time for them to rest and grow whatsoever.
You are hitting your triceps on tuesday with the chest press, and shoulder press, and then on wednesday you do an arm day, then thursday you hit your biceps with the rows.
also your grip is bad on thursday, and this could be because you are thrashing your arms the day before.

Your spilt doesnt allow you arms to grow.

this : "Machine which is opposite to a bench press, seated with your chest against the pad" is a seated row.
is the seated row exercise you talk about with a cable?

with your 5x5 you are doing differing weight, traditional 5x5 is the same weight for 5 sets, once you can do 5 sets of 5 reps, you up the weight.


you work out three days in a row, so your right in doing a 3 day split workout.
however a better spilt would be
day1 - chest and back
day2 - legs and abs
day3 - shoulders and arms

in order to cut you need to keep the intensity high, like in circuit type training as Vampireskiss said. you can also do this through supersets or drop sets.
superset are working two exercises together with no or very little rest between them, for example you could do a bench press followed by a barbell row.

drop sets are keeping with the same exercise but dropping the weight after each set and beginning the new set with no rest between, for instance you could work you bench to 65kg, then once you finish the set, drop to 55kg, do as many as you can, then drop the weight again and continue until you are benching just the bar.

so sometimes the best workout are simple ones.
as you are looking to cut, we will try to keep to 8 reps or so

make sure to do 2 warmup sets on a light before exercises.

4 x 8 means 4 sets of 8 reps of the same weight.

so day1:

you do flies after your bench, i'd advise doing them before so you pre-exhaust the chest muscle before benching. so you can superset the flies with the bench.

dumbbell flies 4 x 8
bench press 4 x 8

deadlift 4 x 6
barbell row 4 x 8
pullups (do 4 negatives if you cant do them) 4 x 8

incline bench press 4 x 8


day 2:

squat 5 x 5
romanian deadlift 4 x 8
walking lunges or bench step ups 4 x 12

bicycle crunch 3 x 15 -20
plank (30 sec - 60 sec holds)
reverse crunch 3 x 10 - 15

day 3:

military press or push press 4 x 8
lateral raise 4 x 8
cable reverse fly 4 x 8

a. reverse curl 3 x 8
b. barbell curl 3 x 6
c. dips 3 x 8

do the above three in a set fashion, so one set of rev curls, followed by barbell curl, followed by dips. then repeat

close grip bench press (elbows in) 4 x 6
farmers walk (for grip, grab two heavy dumbbells and walk until you cant hold them) 4 rounds

golfman wrote: »

Big problem on back day is my forearms going before my back) - I bought some wrist straps online which will arrive this week which'll help me at max weight

God dont do this. This is really only for very very heavy weights. You'll only be ignoring the problem and making your forearms and grip weaker in the process. The forearms are a part of back movements, just like the triceps are part of the bench press.
what use will it be when some ask you to pick something up and you can hold it cos your forearms dont get worked?
If you wanna hit your back more add in a reverse dumbbell fly before the barbell curl, same idea as having the flies before the bench press.

How cut you get depends of course on what you eat. read the stickies religiously. keep a food diary.

you can work out your daily calorie needs here.

as for cardio, try integrating some HIIT days with some light cardio days. if you do cardio in the gym do it after the weights.

work intensly at the weights, those programs shouldnt take long if you keep the intensity up, and stay hydrated.

golfman

aye wrote: »

I meant to reply to this the other day but have been fairly busy this week.

The first thing i noticed about your program is you hit your arms three days in a row!! no time for them to rest and grow whatsoever.
You are hitting your triceps on tuesday with the chest press, and shoulder press, and then on wednesday you do an arm day, then thursday you hit your biceps with the rows.
also your grip is bad on thursday, and this could be because you are thrashing your arms the day before.

Your spilt doesnt allow you arms to grow.

this : "Machine which is opposite to a bench press, seated with your chest against the pad" is a seated row.
is the seated row exercise you talk about with a cable?

with your 5x5 you are doing differing weight, traditional 5x5 is the same weight for 5 sets, once you can do 5 sets of 5 reps, you up the weight.


you work out three days in a row, so your right in doing a 3 day split workout.
however a better spilt would be
day1 - chest and back
day2 - legs and abs
day3 - shoulders and arms

in order to cut you need to keep the intensity high, like in circuit type training as Vampireskiss said. you can also do this through supersets or drop sets.
superset are working two exercises together with no or very little rest between them, for example you could do a bench press followed by a barbell row.

drop sets are keeping with the same exercise but dropping the weight after each set and beginning the new set with no rest between, for instance you could work you bench to 65kg, then once you finish the set, drop to 55kg, do as many as you can, then drop the weight again and continue until you are benching just the bar.

so sometimes the best workout are simple ones.
as you are looking to cut, we will try to keep to 8 reps or so

make sure to do 2 warmup sets on a light before exercises.

4 x 8 means 4 sets of 8 reps of the same weight.

so day1:

you do flies after your bench, i'd advise doing them before so you pre-exhaust the chest muscle before benching. so you can superset the flies with the bench.

dumbbell flies 4 x 8
bench press 4 x 8

deadlift 4 x 6
barbell row 4 x 8
pullups (do 4 negatives if you cant do them) 4 x 8

incline bench press 4 x 8


day 2:

squat 5 x 5
romanian deadlift 4 x 8
walking lunges or bench step ups 4 x 12

bicycle crunch 3 x 15 -20
plank (30 sec - 60 sec holds)
reverse crunch 3 x 10 - 15

day 3:

military press or push press 4 x 8
lateral raise 4 x 8
cable reverse fly 4 x 8

a. reverse curl 3 x 8
b. barbell curl 3 x 6
c. dips 3 x 8

do the above three in a set fashion, so one set of rev curls, followed by barbell curl, followed by dips. then repeat

close grip bench press (elbows in) 4 x 6
farmers walk (for grip, grab two heavy dumbbells and walk until you cant hold them) 4 rounds





God dont do this. This is really only for very very heavy weights. You'll only be ignoring the problem and making your forearms and grip weaker in the process. The forearms are a part of back movements, just like the triceps are part of the bench press.
what use will it be when some ask you to pick something up and you can hold it cos your forearms dont get worked?
If you wanna hit your back more add in a reverse dumbbell fly before the barbell curl, same idea as having the flies before the bench press.

How cut you get depends of course on what you eat. read the stickies religiously. keep a food diary.

you can work out your daily calorie needs here.

as for cardio, try integrating some HIIT days with some light cardio days. if you do cardio in the gym do it after the weights.

work intensly at the weights, those programs shouldnt take long if you keep the intensity up, and stay hydrated.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply! I'll give that a go, there's a few additions there that'll freshen up my program without it turning into all all-out sprint around the gym.

I'll leave the lifting straps at home. I only planned on using them with my max weight but you make a very valid point.

With this program, should I be supersetting the deadlift, barbell row and the pull ups as well as supersetting the bench and flies?

Once again, thanks again. I'll let you know how I get on....

aye

golfman wrote: »

With this program, should I be supersetting the deadlift, barbell row and the pull ups as well as supersetting the bench and flies?

Once again, thanks again. I'll let you know how I get on....

I'd do them in straight sets if i was you, would be a lot on your back and biceps.

you could superset the barbell row and the inclince bench press, that would work well

yeh let me know how you get on man