NLP

Vampireskiss

How effective is NLP for helping one achieve their fitness goals?

Dovers

It is completely unnecessary

MagicMarker

NLP would be?

Hanley

MagicMarker wrote: »

NLP would be?

Neuro-Lingustic Programming I believe. That's hte extent of my knowledge tho!! Google it...

Degsy

I used to think Diet and Excercise was the way to achive goals...

NLP,eh?

seanybiker

I done it for something else. I cant imagine it working for achieving goals fitness wise though.

mikemac

Bought some Anthony Robbins program off ebay a few years back, the official prices are huge but dirt cheap enough on ebay.

That said, I've never gotten past Day 6 of 30 of the tape program so I can't say I ever applied it. Damn my procrastination!

What you need OP is the stickies, not some "life coach" or mega expensive tape programs or seminars with vague promises.

It's an interesting subject but don't commit big money to it when most of the resources can be bought in a 10 euro book.
I'm sure we have a phycology forum around here somewhere where they would discuss it. I wouldn't know enough about it realy.

Hanley

mikemac wrote: »

What you need OP is the stickies, not some "life coach" or mega expensive tape programs or seminars with vague promises.

He already knows about the stickies. The commitment is the problem.

rediguana

My good friend co-founded the Irish Institute of NLP. Look, I'm in a picture with him if you don't believe me:

http://pauljkiernan.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/not_enough_hours/

Anyway, one of his NLP students is also a Dublin-based fitness instructor who runs boot camps as well. PM if you want his details.

For what it's worth, I'm with Degsy on this one!

seanybiker

rediguana wrote: »

My good friend co-founded the Irish Institute of NLP.

I done a weekend workshop thing with him years ago. Nice fella. Funny too.

rediguana

seanybiker wrote: »

I done a weekend workshop thing with him years ago. Nice fella. Funny too.

Yeah, good guy - heart of gold. Needs to cut back on the cursing in his courses though. And less talking about Celtic and more talking about Everton.

seanybiker

rediguana wrote: »

Yeah, good guy - heart of gold. Needs to cut back on the cursing in his courses though. And less talking about Celtic and more talking about Everton.

I thought the cursing was hilarious. It kinda made the course relaxing in a strange way.

DublinWriter

I've studied NLP a lot and to me, it's a bit like the Curate's Egg.

NLPs solid academic founding roots became so entangled in various legal scrambles for cash over the years. I'm sad to say that certain aspects of modern NLP remind me of Scientology.

I've personally heard one NLP tutor claim positive results for curing breast tumours on his Master Practitioner course. This is dangerous stuff to say the least.

rediguana

seanybiker wrote: »

I thought the cursing was hilarious. It kinda made the course relaxing in a strange way.

Yeah, I guess I just don't really go in for the whole cursing-in-public thing, especially in a professional setting.

I prefer to keep my profanity for when I'm shouting at my wife.

crotalus667

rediguana wrote: »

Yeah, I guess I just don't really go in for the whole cursing-in-public thing, especially in a professional setting.
.

It’s not just you, said person is notorious for threw out the industry for it . NLP by the way was nothing new just a new label on old wine , as for the treating of cancers well yes it can be used with some positive results (these results are very subjective) but only in conjunction with conventional treatments and it has been involved in cases of spontaneous remission however it’s as common as spontaneous remission in is any other cases :rolleyes:

Transform

NLP gets a +1 from me and the irish institute of NLP being the best.

Tony Robbins is probably the best easy way of getting into it but like all things in life its just a tool and a tool best used to understand developing rapport, confidence, support and overcoming limitations.

Hanley

Transform wrote: »

NLP gets a +1 from me and the irish institute of NLP being the best.

Tony Robbins is probably the best easy way of getting into it but like all things in life its just a tool and a tool best used to understand developing rapport, confidence, support and overcoming limitations.

Any books in particular you'd recommend for someone who doesn't know the slightest thing about it??

Transform

use your brain for a change

Unleash the power within

Awaken the giant

Degsy

Transform wrote: »

use your brain for a change

Unleash the power within

Awaken the giant

Ah,self help books!

How do they help you lift weights though?

g'em

Degsy wrote: »

Ah,self help books!

How do they help you lift weights though?

Smart-arsery, when directed at someone like Transform, is the epitome of futility.

Consistency in training, dedication to committing to and carrying out a fitness program, and maintaining healthy mental awareness and mindfulness of yourself and your body when you train are all an integral part of being 'fit'.

Will self help books help you lift? Stupid question Degs and you know it. But they can help you to become more motivated and help you to be able to focus and use your thought patterns more efficiently and effectively. They're just another tool in the arsenal to help with training but at the end of the day the hard work still comes down to you and no-one is saying otherwise.

Hanley

Degsy wrote: »

Ah,self help books!

How do they help you lift weights though?

It's not ALWAYS about lifting weights....

I don't know the first thing about NLP but anything that has the power to enhance your selling capabilities, business acumen and ability to influence has to be considered.

Degsy

Hanley wrote: »

anything that has the power to enhance your selling capabilities, business acumen and ability to influence has to be considered.

And who says it does enhance any of these faculties?

Self-help books and other mystical mumbo jumbo about achieving "sucess" have been around for donkeys' years.
The only real results they've achieved is lining the pockets of the people who write them.

Degsy

g'em wrote: »

Smart-arsery, when directed at someone like Transform, is the epitome of futility.

God now is he?

He has in the past promoted some esoteric practices(colonic irrigation etc) and to encourage people to read garbage like NLP books is NOT very helpful in *my* opinion.

In relation to the OP i think its time he spoke to a psychiatrist.

Odysseus

I have alot of issues with NLP, in fact I think alot of it is quackery, however, I know a little bit about human psychology and the only place where I would consider NLP as having a function is in the sporting world. It can be useful in terms of developing motivation, committment and achieveing goals. IMO any other claims are suspect at best. The amount of times I have of someone who has trained in NLP offering to cure my clients is outrageous.

g'em

Degsy wrote: »

God now is he?

Nope. But he's one of the few folks out there who practices what he preaches. If he suggests something it's worth taking a look into it, and I'd apply the same logic to a few posters whose experience and advise I value.

Degsy wrote:

He has in the past promoted some esoteric practices(colonic irrigation etc) and to encourage people to read garbage like NLP books is NOT very helpful in *my* opinion.

I've used self-help books with great success personally. There *is* a whole heap of tripe out there, but there are some worth taking a look at.

Degsy wrote:

In relation to the OP i think its time he spoke to a psychiatrist.

I've warned you publicly and privately MANY times about making digs, sly and otherwise towards the OP. Banned for a week.

g'em

Odysseus wrote: »

I have alot of issues with NLP, in fact I think alot of it is quackery, however, I know a little bit about human psychology and the only place where I would consider NLP as having a function is in the sporting world. It can be useful in terms of developing motivation, committment and achieveing goals. IMO any other claims are suspect at best. The amount of times I have of someone who has trained in NLP offering to cure my clients is outrageous.

Interesting that you say that Odysseus - I don't have much experience with it myself but I know of a couple of practitioners and they too would be of the opinion that its strongest use is for sports-related needs.

I discussed it with one of them and some of the principles they used were really rather ordinary - things like anchoring with music? But all that reaffirmation stuff was a bit guffy so I probably switched off when I heard that.

I'd be curious to read more about it though, and perhaps cherry pick the techniques I could find most useful.

Transform

Degsy i have taken numerous courses in NLP from the guys in the irish institute of NLP to Bandler.

I have also enjoyed doing philosophy for years at the school of philosophy (John scottus school), lectures by jason vale, patrick holford, charles poliquin. philip day, tony robbins (4 day events) and on and on.

I will continue to do so in the future.

Have they made me a better person (happier, healthier etc), well its hard to tell. All i DO know is that last week i looked back on some of the things i did on a tony robbins course (6-7years ago) on which i took my dad along (happiest i have ever seen him in my entire life that weekend) and i can honestly say i am now doing 99% of what i aimed to do back then - family, child, married, body, business, trippled earnings etc

Was NLP the whole reason?

NO but i do think that its important to invest in yourself all the time. If NLP is your bag then great if taking exercise does it for you super, celeb magazines, if having a few beers and getting pissed helps make you happy etc then go for it.

My job involves being both a trainer/coach and a quasi therapist for my clients and for me NLP gives me a few tools to help keep them on track.

The op has PM me before in regards to working in the fitness industry so your advice in regards to 'go see a therapist' is not applicable.

Odysseus

g'em wrote: »

Interesting that you say that Odysseus - I don't have much experience with it myself but I know of a couple of practitioners and they too would be of the opinion that its strongest use is for sports-related needs.

I discussed it with one of them and some of the principles they used were really rather ordinary - things like anchoring with music? But all that reaffirmation stuff was a bit guffy so I probably switched off when I heard that.

I'd be curious to read more about it though, and perhaps cherry pick the techniques I could find most useful.

I have to admit I have no training in it, but I have alot in human behaviour and interventions to change behaviour. For some reason alot of the top self denfese guys I have trained with are vastly interested in it. I do believe that its applications are limited but in relation to the areas I metioned above I think it can be useful. It just when it claims to deal with emotional/mental health issues I have problems with it. Sports wise I'm sure it has helped lots of people in this country even with them being aware that the person who was training them was using NLP.

HardyEustace

At it's most basic, if it makes people realise that
1. facing into exercise thinking "OMG, I hate this, why am I doing it, it's going to be really hard" is not the way to have a good session and will not induce you to stick with it.
2. if you expect things to go wrong and approach things and people in a defensive, pessimistic manner then, yes, everyone probably will dislike you and you probably won't succeed.
3. you need to keep focused on your original goal.

then it's no bad thing.

I actually found this book the best. Maybe because it's based on Nlp business skills and has less of the "come worship at the altar of nlp and your life will be amazing" guff.

BobbyOLeary

Wow, I never knew NLP was used in sports at all. My dad used to be big into the business skills side of NLP and that end of it always seemed pretty good. Never knew there was a scientology-like side to it!

Can't quite figure how you'd use it for sport but that's just probably my ignorance on the subject. Lean meat and green veg are probably more important than the latest Tony Robbins tape though.

Transform

i would disagree - lean meat and veg are all great but if you can become more focused in sessions and push harder and be more cosistent then thats a bigger plus.

NLP can become very watered down when it comes to life coaching etc but use what you like and dump the rest.

dioltas

Am I missing something here? Is it not jus the same as positive thinking? Telling yourself that your going to make a shot for example, and visualing it? It can't hurt can it? Better than going in believing your going to miss.

slemons

NLP is as someone said a label put on an art form so it could be sold.
And it was sold very well. Bandler and Grinder did very well from it.
But all they really did was find everything a genius doctor/therapist called Milton Erickson did and analyse it, and try recreate it.
The guy was unreal.
I think i have every video/book/audio that's been produced of his and he had Jedi Mind skills practically. I almost regret using that description as i dont want to water down his skill, but its as close as i can come to describing him

Personally i dislike the term NLP as it adds a layer of complexity that needent be there. I prefer something simple like strong mindset or whatever.

Think of it this way. How many people piss and moan and procrastinate, saying things like 'I cant do that', or 'Im too weak' or fat, or short or ugly etc etc.

I know i do it a lot, but probably less than before.

The top guys in every sport have a steely will. I mean they just totally believe 100% that they are the best, regardless whether its true or not. They yearn to train every day, as hard and as smart as possible.

A mindset like that is what needed to really suceed at anything.

Thats what NLP can do, if used in the right hands.

The problem is that people who read self help books, approach the reading of the book with the same defeatist attitude. So it cant work for them. Thats where coaches can come in. They can give the extra push in the right direction.

All people usually need is a shot of confidence by doing, to get them moving. Or a very subtely disguised compliment. 'Mol an oige agus tiocfaidh sí' applies to all ages. The key is, it must be subtle and genuine. Anything else may just be rejected immediately as plomausing.

There's oceans to talk about on this. Its fascinating.

Transform

slemons wrote: »

NLP is as someone said a label put on an art form so it could be sold.
And it was sold very well. Bandler and Grinder did very well from it.
But all they really did was find everything a genius doctor/therapist called Milton Erickson did and analyse it, and try recreate it.
The guy was unreal.
I think i have every video/book/audio that's been produced of his and he had Jedi Mind skills practically. I almost regret using that description as i dont want to water down his skill, but its as close as i can come to describing him

Personally i dislike the term NLP as it adds a layer of complexity that needent be there. I prefer something simple like strong mindset or whatever.

Think of it this way. How many people piss and moan and procrastinate, saying things like 'I cant do that', or 'Im too weak' or fat, or short or ugly etc etc.

I know i do it a lot, but probably less than before.

The top guys in every sport have a steely will. I mean they just totally believe 100% that they are the best, regardless whether its true or not. They yearn to train every day, as hard and as smart as possible.

A mindset like that is what needed to really suceed at anything.

Thats what NLP can do, if used in the right hands.

The problem is that people who read self help books, approach the reading of the book with the same defeatist attitude. So it cant work for them. Thats where coaches can come in. They can give the extra push in the right direction.

All people usually need is a shot of confidence by doing, to get them moving. Or a very subtely disguised compliment. 'Mol an oige agus tiocfaidh sí' applies to all ages. The key is, it must be subtle and genuine. Anything else may just be rejected immediately as plomausing.

There's oceans to talk about on this. Its fascinating.

Totally agree with all of the above and put better than i possibly could.

Positive thinking and telling yourself your going to make that shot is great but no everyones mind is wired that way so NLP can help with the wiring i suppose - modelling

HardyEustace

Actually could anyone recommend a few books on Milton Erikson? I've looked up amazon but there's a wide variety. Is there any particular book or series that's considered to be the "bible" of his teachings?

My voice will go with you got particularly good reviews.

slemons

Probably this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0393301354/sr%3D8-1/qid%3D1151546729/ref%3Dpd_bbs_1/104-2738419-8629520%3Fie%3DUTF8&IP
Rosen is one author who just listened to Erickson and transcribed his words 100%.
He didnt try to paraphrase, or change his words at all. Its funny how people who are trying to learn from a master attempt to improve his work...
This stuff is gold.

Also anything by Stephen Brooks if you can find it. He's excellent.

Or try get video's/audios or Erickson speaking himself.
Straight to the source


Oops that was the exact book you linked to. Its all good!