Recommend a grinder

waraf

Ok I hate my grinder. It's one of those ones with spinning blades in it and I can never get the grain size quite right for my espresso machine. They're either too coarse and the water flies through or, as happened recently, the grains were too fine and the espresso machine blew a seal (for the second time :mad:). Anyway the only fix for this is a grinder that can produce consistent grain size. My budget is around 100 euro or so. I've heard burr grinders are the way to go. Any suggestions?

Mr Magnolia

A burr grinder is an absolute must for an espresso machine. You'll get some surprise in the difference in quality you're about to experience. Entry level burr grinder is the Iberital MC2 avaiable from happydonkey for £99. It's going to push you over the €100 mark but it's worth doing if you can.

Make sure you get some crap beans for dialling it in (adjusting it to the correct grind), this will take a bit of work and you'll waste at least a bag of beans. Get some good coffee too.

What type of espresso machine have you btw?



Edit/ may as well show you what happydonkey is:

http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/iberital-mc2-grinders.html

waraf

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

A burr grinder is an absolute must for an espresso machine. You'll get some surprise in the difference in quality you're about to experience. Entry level burr grinder is the Iberital MC2 avaiable from happydonkey for £99. It's going to push you over the €100 mark but it's worth doing if you can.

Make sure you get some crap beans for dialling it in (adjusting it to the correct grind), this will take a bit of work and you'll waste at least a bag of beans. Get some good coffee too.

What type of espresso machine have you btw?

Edit/ may as well show you what happydonkey is:

http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/iberital-mc2-grinders.html

Cheers for that Mr M. I'll have a look at those.

My espresso machine is nothing fancy (see link below) but it makes a half decent cup of espresso when you manage to get the grind just right (which is rarely with my current grinder)

http://www.morphyrichards.co.uk/AccessoryDetail.aspx?Product=47506

Mr Magnolia

Very good, I started off with a machine very similar to that myself.

Those machines run at over 15bar, ideal extraction for espresso is around 8.5bar so it's high - just something to keep in mind if you ever want to upgrade

Let me know what you decide to do about the grinder

ch2008

Iberital MC2 is a good grinder, great value.

waraf

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Those machines run at over 15bar, ideal extraction for espresso is around 8.5bar so it's high - just something to keep in mind if you ever want to upgrade

Interesting. I always just assumed that more pressure was a good thing. Thanks I'll remember that the next time I'm buying an espresso machine.

Mr Magnolia

Most machines are factory set way too high. The better machines have adjustable over pressure valves which can be tweaked to the desired pressure at home though.

waraf

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Most machines are factory set way too high. The better machines have adjustable over pressure valves which can be tweaked to the desired pressure at home though.

Oh I wish you hadn't said that. My coffee machine will be in several thousand bits by this time tomorrow. :D

Seriously though, has anyone done this on a Morphy Richards machine. Any tips for me or should I just stay away from it altogether?

Mr Magnolia

Nah sorry, your machine doesn't have an opv I'm afraid, look out for it on your next machine though. Ask here if you ever decide to upgrade.

waraf

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Nah sorry, your machine doesn't have an opv I'm afraid, look out for it on your next machine though. Ask here if you ever decide to upgrade.

That's probably a good thing as I'm sure the machine will last a lot longer now that I won't be taking a angle grinder to it :D

Thanks for all the tips Mr M (and everyone else) - much appreciated. Looks like I'm gonna order the Iberital grinder tomorrow.

waraf

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Nah sorry, your machine doesn't have an opv I'm afraid, look out for it on your next machine though. Ask here if you ever decide to upgrade.

OK I can't resist. Tempt me with an upgrade.....

Gran Hermano

waraf wrote: »

OK I can't resist. Tempt me with an upgrade.....

Have a look at these two, they'll last you years of daily usage:
https://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/Rancilio-Silvia-Espresso-Machine-(New-Model).html

http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/store/gaggia_classic.html

If you buy cheap you'll buy twice

waraf

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Have a look at these two, they'll last you years of daily usage:
https://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/Rancilio-Silvia-Espresso-Machine-(New-Model).html

http://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/store/gaggia_classic.html

If you buy cheap you'll buy twice

ehm....thery're not cheap are they :eek: Think I'll buy the 5 euro seal that I blew on the Morphy Richards and stick with that for the time being.

By the way. I tried to order that grinder from Happy Donkey but when I got to the checkout page I get this error: "Sorry, there are no available shipping methods for your location."
I sent them a mail but I haven't heard anything back. Do the ship to Ireland?

Mr Magnolia

They do, give him a day or so and he'll get back to you.

Gran Hermano is on the money with the recommendations too.

waraf

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

They do, give him a day or so and he'll get back to you.

Gran Hermano is on the money with the recommendations too.

Great thanks for the quick reply.

Clinker

waraf wrote: »

By the way. I tried to order that grinder from Happy Donkey but when I got to the checkout page I get this error: "Sorry, there are no available shipping methods for your location."
I sent them a mail but I haven't heard anything back. Do the ship to Ireland?

I got an Iberital MC2 from Happy Donkey recently. They do ship to Ireland, but you need to arrange it through email. The shipping charge was £16. I got him to add some coffee and a knockbox to the order, which didn't add to the shipping charge. It arrived very carefully wrapped a few days later. I have the impression that small domestic customers are not his top priority, so it takes him a while to get round to you. BTW: the coffee was good.

Gran Hermano

Clinker is spot on, his main focus from what I can see is the commercial stuff but he will ship here, I'm pretty sure there's a half dozen of us here
on the forum who've bought the Iberital from him - myself included.

waraf

Clinker wrote: »

I got an Iberital MC2 from Happy Donkey recently. They do ship to Ireland, but you need to arrange it through email. The shipping charge was £16. I got him to add some coffee and a knockbox to the order, which didn't add to the shipping charge. It arrived very carefully wrapped a few days later. I have the impression that small domestic customers are not his top priority, so it takes him a while to get round to you. BTW: the coffee was good.

Pardon my ignorance but what's a knockbox?

Gran Hermano

waraf wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance but what's a knockbox?

Allows you to easily empty your used coffee puck into it without having
to bang the portafilter off the sink/rubbish bin.

If you're impatient waiting for Scott in happy donkey to reply to your mail
you can always phone him - number on site.

waraf

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Allows you to easily empty your used coffee puck into it without having
to bang the portafilter off the sink/rubbish bin.

If you're impatient waiting for Scott in happy donkey to reply to your mail
you can always phone him - number on site.

This is weird but I can't envision how that works. I don't even have any idea what scale that picture is. How big is it? Why does it have a bar running acros it? Do you not just end up banging that thing on the bin/sink instead of coffee puck? So many questions

Gran Hermano

And I thought a picture was as good as a thousand words...

Take 2: have a look at this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myl33ZLkhB8

Maybe this should be in the coffee pron thread

Clinker

Gran Hermano, that's brilliant!

My knockbox is bright red too, but a bit bigger than the Grindenstein (but also Australian). It has transformed my life!

waraf

Thanks for the video GH. It is in essence a small bin for used coffee. Can't see the point of it myself other than maybe in a busy coffee shop. I'd just end up banging that off the bin instead of the puck and then I'd be left with another thing to wash. Each to their own and all that though...

IsThatSo?

Excellent vid

I have the grindenstein and am very happy with it, its a neat size too:)

Waraf............I suppose the reason I got one was to prevent damage to my portafilter/basket.

Do you not have to keep fishing the basket out of the bin:eek:

waraf

IsThatSo? wrote: »

Waraf............I suppose the reason I got one was to prevent damage to my portafilter/basket.

Do you not have to keep fishing the basket out of the bin:eek:

ehm....i'm learning a lot of new words on this thread

What's a portafilter & basket? Is it something like this?

If it is, my one has a little plastic thing on it that holds the little metal filter (puck?) in place while you bang it off the bin. The coffee mostly drops out in one single lump from it anyway so it's no hassle. Maybe it's different for other machines which I suppose would make the knock box useful. I certainly wouldn't like to have to fish around in my bin for it :)

IsThatSo?

The portafilter is the handle etc, the basket slips into this and the puck is actually the coffee that sits in the basket, as in "coffee puck"

Good idea on the plastic bit to hold basket in, thats handy

waraf

IsThatSo? wrote: »

The portafilter is the handle etc, the basket slips into this and the puck is actually the coffee that sits in the basket, as in "coffee puck"

Good idea on the plastic bit to hold basket in, thats handy

Thanks for the explanation of the terminology.

Yes the plastic thing on the portafilter that holds the basket (see I'm learning ) is very handy. I always just assumed that the expensive espresso machines would all have that but I was obviously wrong. Here are the pics of it in action....

nc6000

I've got one of these and it does the job nicely. It was bought from Java Republic but it doesn't seem to be on their site anymore.

http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/grinders/bodum_antigua_grinder

It should be within the €100 budget IIRC.

waraf

nc6000 wrote: »

I've got one of these and it does the job nicely. It was bought from Java Republic but it doesn't seem to be on their site anymore.

http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/grinders/bodum_antigua_grinder

It should be within the €100 budget IIRC.

Thanks for the link but I have to say the reiews at the link you posted aren't great to be honest. Many of them say that it's no good for espresso which is what i drink most often. I have yet to see a bad review for the iberital mc2 so I think I'll spend the extra few quid and get that.

nc6000

waraf wrote: »

Thanks for the link but I have to say the reiews at the link you posted aren't great to be honest. Many of them say that it's no good for espresso which is what i drink most often. I have yet to see a bad review for the iberital mc2 so I think I'll spend the extra few quid and get that.

Didn't notice the reviews. I make a fairly coarse grind and pop it into my french press. It makes nicer coffee than most coffee shops!

waraf

nc6000 wrote: »

Didn't notice the reviews. I make a fairly coarse grind and pop it into my french press. It makes nicer coffee than most coffee shops!

I don't doubt it mate. I had my first Starbucks coffee recently and my god it was awfully weak. How are they so successful?

aidan_walsh

waraf wrote: »

I don't doubt it mate. I had my first Starbucks coffee recently and my god it was awfully weak. How are they so successful?

Because a large percentage of people are used to instant coffee?

nc6000

waraf wrote: »

I don't doubt it mate. I had my first Starbucks coffee recently and my god it was awfully weak. How are they so successful?

They seem to be using these bean-to-cup machines now. They guys behind the counter only have to press buttons and heat milk to make most of the items on the menu.

Their beans seem to be OK if a little expensive.

waraf

Clinker wrote: »

I got an Iberital MC2 from Happy Donkey recently. They do ship to Ireland, but you need to arrange it through email. The shipping charge was £16. I got him to add some coffee and a knockbox to the order, which didn't add to the shipping charge. It arrived very carefully wrapped a few days later. I have the impression that small domestic customers are not his top priority, so it takes him a while to get round to you. BTW: the coffee was good.

Spoke to Scott on the phone today. It appears that I typed my e-mail address incorrectly on the enquiry so he wasn't able to get in touch with me

Anyway, the Iberital MC2 auto will be with me by next Monday. Thanks for the advice everyone. Coffee in my place next Monday :)

Gran Hermano

waraf wrote: »

Spoke to Scott on the phone today. It appears that I typed my e-mail address incorrectly on the enquiry so he wasn't able to get in touch with me

Anyway, the Iberital MC2 auto will be with me by next Monday. Thanks for the advice everyone. Coffee in my place next Monday :)

Congrats on the purchase, it'll stand to you should you upgrade the espresso machine in the future.

Just a note that the grinder will not come with any manual or instructions.
Your best bet is to find some cheap supermarket beans, a good size bag,
as you will go through a fair amount setting up the grinder and getting
an approximate grind setting for your espresso machine. Once you have
the grind in the rough ball-park you need you'll only need minor
adjustments to allow for differences in bean age, roast, bean type and
humidity.

My advice is before you plug it in to remove the hopper (part on top that
holds the beans) and to adjust the dial until the burrs are almost touching.
Put the hopper on and put in some beans and grind away enough to fill
the basket. There is a second dial which adjusts the volume of coffee
it grinds each time, allows you to adjust for different basket sizes.

Are you using a single or double basket? You'll need to adjust the grind
to ensure you get the right amount of coffee out of the portafilter in
the right time. Too fine and you'll over extract the coffee (and possibly
clog the machine) too coarse and the water will fly through the coffee
and you'll under-extract. I aim for a double shot in around the 25 seconds
mark.

A stop watch and weigh scales may help when dialling in the grinder.
Weigh the portafilter and basket empty then add about 14-16g of ground
coffee for a double, with an even/average tamp, and aim for around the
25 second extraction.

waraf

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Congrats on the purchase, it'll stand to you should you upgrade the espresso machine in the future.

Just a note that the grinder will not come with any manual or instructions.
Your best bet is to find some cheap supermarket beans, a good size bag,
as you will go through a fair amount setting up the grinder and getting
an approximate grind setting for your espresso machine. Once you have
the grind in the rough ball-park you need you'll only need minor
adjustments to allow for differences in bean age, roast, bean type and
humidity.

My advice is before you plug it in to remove the hopper (part on top that
holds the beans) and to adjust the dial until the burrs are almost touching.
Put the hopper on and put in some beans and grind away enough to fill
the basket. There is a second dial which adjusts the volume of coffee
it grinds each time, allows you to adjust for different basket sizes.

Are you using a single or double basket? You'll need to adjust the grind
to ensure you get the right amount of coffee out of the portafilter in
the right time. Too fine and you'll over extract the coffee (and possibly
clog the machine) too coarse and the water will fly through the coffee
and you'll under-extract. I aim for a double shot in around the 25 seconds
mark.

A stop watch and weigh scales may help when dialling in the grinder.
Weigh the portafilter and basket empty then add about 14-16g of ground
coffee for a double, with an even/average tamp, and aim for around the
25 second extraction.

Excellent instructions as always GH. I'll let you know how I get on. You're slowly becoming my life coach here on boards :) Please don't tell me you're a cat owner too or I will be completely freaked!! :pac:

waraf

Thanks everyone for all the advice. The MC2 Auto was delivered today (including a free bag of beans from Scott ) and I'm delighted with it.

If anyone wants a free grinder (my old one) just drop me a PM. You can either pick it up (I live in North County Dublin) or I'll post it to you as long as you're willing to cover the cost of postage.

TLG

which one is better the mc2 or mc2 auto? i don't quite understand.

Mr Magnolia

It's personal preference really TLG. The mc2 Auto doesn't have the dosser on the front, the mc2 does. I prefer the doserless model myself.

waraf

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

It's personal preference really TLG. The mc2 Auto doesn't have the dosser on the front, the mc2 does. I prefer the doserless model myself.

I bought the auto too and TBH I find it a little messy. I'm thinking of trying to buy the doser separately and fitting it myself

Mr Magnolia

waraf wrote: »

I bought the auto too and TBH I find it a little messy. I'm thinking of trying to buy the doser separately and fitting it myself

Give it a couple of weeks, as you get used to it there'll be less mess.

The major advantage that the doser has is that it elliminates clumping. The doserless' advantage is that there are less grinds to dry out and go stale between coffees.

TLG

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Give it a couple of weeks, as you get used to it there'll be less mess.

The major advantage that the doser has is that it elliminates clumping. The doserless' advantage is that there are less grinds to dry out and go stale between coffees.

hmmm i don't understand. why would there be "less grinds to dry out" and why "go stale" between coffees?

also what do you mean eliminates clumping?

IsThatSo?

"less grinds to dry out" and "go stale" between coffees

Coffee grinds get caught in the doser models, in the chute and in the doser itself. When you go to grind for your next cup of coffee those grinds (the stale dry ones) will get pushed out and into your coffee and reduce the quality of your drink. Each grinder differs so reading reviews will give you an idea of how much gets caught in the chute.

eliminates clumping

Coffe clumps together as its ground. If you have a doser model then the doser breaks up the majority of clumps, if you have a doserless model then they clumps stay and you have to break them up yourself.

waraf

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Give it a couple of weeks, as you get used to it there'll be less mess.

The major advantage that the doser has is that it elliminates clumping. The doserless' advantage is that there are less grinds to dry out and go stale between coffees.

I've started using a small glass to collect the ground coffee. Hey pesto no more mess

Gran Hermano

waraf wrote: »

I've started using a small glass to collect the ground coffee. Hey pesto no more mess

I keep an old sugar bowl under mine to collect any stray grounds - a small, shallow but wide bowl and it fits perfectly under the portafilter holder part.

How you getting on with the grinder Waraf?

Gryzor

just got delivery of an MC2 auto myself today...took a while to get her dialed in, think i have it now....feckin buzzin after all the testing

one thing i noticed is quite a lot of coffee seems to sit at the top of the chute after the grind stops, have to kind of tip the grinder forward to drop it out at the end...

waraf

Gran Hermano wrote: »

I keep an old sugar bowl under mine to collect any stray grounds - a small, shallow but wide bowl and it fits perfectly under the portafilter holder part.

How you getting on with the grinder Waraf?

It's been fine but I've only been using a moka pot since I've had it as I'm still waiting on a part for my espresso machine.

waraf

Gryzor wrote: »

one thing i noticed is quite a lot of coffee seems to sit at the top of the chute after the grind stops, have to kind of tip the grinder forward to drop it out at the end...

Yeah that's annoying alright. You can't get a cleaning brush up to it either because of the angle of the chute.

Also, does your adjustment knob turn forever? Mine seems to turn and turn ad infinitum and the size of grain doesn't change very much. I'm thinking of taking it apart to see if it's actually working.

Gryzor

waraf wrote: »

Also, does your adjustment knob turn forever? Mine seems to turn and turn ad infinitum and the size of grain doesn't change very much. I'm thinking of taking it apart to see if it's actually working.

yep, turns forever alright. it does seem to adjust the grind, very very gradually as you say though...

waraf

Gryzor wrote: »

yep, turns forever alright. it does seem to adjust the grind, very very gradually as you say though...

ok no need for me to start dismantling mine then. Thanks

Gran Hermano

If there is a small amount of grinds left in the chute just tap the side of the
grinder a couple of times gently and they'll fall down - now you see why I
keep the old bowl under mine as from habit it now I tap the grinder before
and after grinding. Tap before to release any old grinds from last time
which I discard before I grind what I currently need.

I adjust the dial that controls how much it grinds in one
go to include the small amount of grinds trapped in the chute which I tap
straight after grinding into the portafilter basket.

You'll find high humidity or static electricity will cause more to get trapped in the chute.

The MC2 is a stepless grinder and has an almost infinite number of settings.
As you've noticed one turn of the dial is a very minor adjustment in grind.
Even if you've dialled in the grind for your coffee I find I'll often adjust it
every day or so with 3-4 rotations one way or another. For example, as the
beans I'm using age I find I'll adjust it 3-4 turns to finer but if I switch to
newer beans I'll slightly readjust by 3-4 turns to coarser and roughly back
to my original setting.

By timing your espresso shots (holding bean type and tamp constant)
you'll get to see the difference in the grind and shot time due to adjusting
the grind dial a few turns.