Scope Choice

It wasn't me!

Okay, this could provoke some interesting debate. Got a new rifle coming, and looking for a scope to fit to it. It's a .25-06, so fairly flat shooting, so reticle choice is handy enough, most things will do it. The important aspects to it are below. I'd like to keep it within the major European makes, for the sake of optical quality, but if you have anything else to suggest outside of those that offers the same day and low-light performance, by all means suggest it. Okay, what I'm looking for is as follows:

30mm tube
Large objective lens
Mid-range magnification, say up to at least 15x
Second focal plane
Superb light transmission
Excellent build quality, no reputation for manufacturing faults
Side-focus parallax
Illumination

I suppose the ideal solution to this is a Nightforce, 3-15x56 with NP2-DD reticle. Would anyone suggest anything else for a better price? This is how I'd be leaning at the moment. I'll put up pics of the rifle in the gear thread as soon as I have a deposit on it and can legitimately claim it's on its way. Cheers in advance lads.

jwshooter

i know where you can get a brand new swarovski 4-16x50 pv for 850 euro or a new swaro 4-12x50 av for 760 euro

or a S/H leupold vari XIII 3.5-10x50 for 340 euro

or a S/H schmidt n bender 3-12x50 for 620 euro

endasmail

any budget ,or are ya going all out ?

It wasn't me!

Side adjustable parallax and 30mm tubes on those scopes jw?

as to budget? Well, I'd like to keep it relatively reasonable. If it's around the grand mark I wouldn't be too distressed I guess.

endasmail

in the process of getting my s&b pm11 of john lambert ,while waiting for mine to come in , he has given me one of his pm11 s,i rang a few dealers int the country ,found him to be best value .wouldnt be a bad lad to start with

kakashka

My 2cent,dont get caught up on large objective,very little dif between 42/44/50/56 on a quality scope,a reticle you like is maby even more important.. finnaccuracy have a good selection,IMHO nightforce are WAY over priced

jwshooter

on the swro pv adjustment is on the front bell ,there a finer scope that the nightforce .
the field of view if on the swro pv is very good

It wasn't me!

Deposit cheque is signed and sealed, so pictures are up in the Hardware thread.

I do like the look of those Swarovski's. what are the reticles like in them?

What do I lose by the lack of parallax adjustment in the AV series? I've never used a scope without adjustable parallax.

kakashka

Swarovski are the best i've ever had as far as clarity,FOV and REAL twilight factor go.

kakashka

If your thinking of target/hunting then you might be better served with parallax,why do you want illum?

It wasn't me!

kakashka wrote: »

If your thinking of target/hunting then you might be better served with parallax,why do you want illum?

The odd bit of lamping for foxes, for the quick, instinctive appeal.

jwshooter

i can hear the money rolling from your bank account from hear:(

It wasn't me!

jwshooter wrote: »

i can hear the money rolling from your bank account from hear:(

Yeah, I know. The wallet is crying alright. I figure I'll pay once for quality stuff though and not regret it. Problem is we live in a bloody expensive country! Still, got a good price for the rifle and if I get a good price for a scope I won't feel too rode.

kakashka

Illum is nice but pushes cost up,again i would say reticle is more important---and only you can decide on what suits you,fine is my preferance,i also like SFP but IMO not quite as reliable as FFP,S&B Varmint is nice but AFAIK no illum

It wasn't me!

I like it to be fine, with good definition, and uncluttered. Really like the NP2-DD from Nightforce, lovely looking reticle for what I'm at. That, with illumination, would be excellent. I'd love to grab a second-hand one to be honest, 5.5-22x56 or 3-15x56 would be perfect.

jwshooter

i have a nightforce 5-15x50 there not all there cracked up to be .

my TDS ,4-16x50 swro pv is a far finer scope

kakashka

If you knew someone headed to US!!i guess you have time to check all options anyway,you dont mind NF's ocular system?put me off TBH

It wasn't me!

I know a way to get them from the US at a semi-reasonable price, so that's not a massive issue. The couple of times I've used them, I've been extremely impressed by their clarity, build quality and ease of use - nice big exit pupil and such.

kakashka

I guess you already have it sorted then

clivej

I've had a few scopes up till now and have settled on the Bushnell range. I like what they do because they do it well.

On my .22lr I now have a 3200 elite 10x40 tactical with the target turrets and mildot reticle.

I have 2 4200 elite 6-24x50 tactical with the target turrets and mildot reticle. This I have sitting on my CZ .223 and the other one will be sitting on my Sako 75 in .308. With this scope I can see the 223 bullit holes @300m. The turrets will always return to the zero after turning up or down for the diffferent dialed in ranges i.e. 100m, 200m, 300m.

They do what it says on the box and do it well.

IWM please don't fall into the trap of 'I have to have a Nightforce' because everyone else has one. There's plenty of other good quality scopes.

As for price the 3200 10x40 is €399 in Duffy's I got it for €115 on E bay and is top class.

The 4200 6-24x50 is about £675 sterling say €750. I got one @€;430 on E bay and the other @€;385 from airgunbbs.com in the sales section.
Both scopes are in perfect condition.

Keep an eye to the airgunbbs.com sales as the bargains are there to be had. Check a least once a day because the scopes go quickly.

And don't short change yourself on the magnification it's better to be looking at it than looking for it.

Illumniated is good but if you have a good lamp you can live without it.

28 Bushnell Elite 4200 reviews here - 5 star rating:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/reviews.jsp?productid=711020

Malaga2

The 25-06 really isnt set up as a target rifle. Unless you can reload for it the factory fodder isnt all that spectacular. Great round and flat shooting... I seriously think you are going to way over scope this rifle. Save yourself a bunch of cash and buy a Leupold...VX III 4.5-14-40 is a hard scope to beat for the price...
On a hunting rifle I would consider a Bushnell Elite 4200 series (great with rainguard), good glass and stands up to hard usage. I watched my brother roll down a mountain in Pennsylvannia with one a few years ago... he was banged up a bit... scope was good to go

It wasn't me!

Clive, it's not because everyone else has one, it's because they're sturdy, have good glass and fit my specifications.


As to the .25-06 being over-scoped, it'll be used for foxing, potentially at range, and long-range bunnies and crows, so a bit of magnification is appreciated. Additionally, I want superb quality glass, because I'll probably end up doing a good bit of hunting on open mountains in poor light, and because I don't like shelling out any money and not getting excellent stuff.

kakashka

No offence Mal but did you see the Sako 75 bit??

clivej

IWM have a read through the reviews as to the quality of the Bushnell scopes. You could save yourself a pile of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


28 Bushnell Elite 4200 reviews here - 5 star rating:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...oductid=711020

kakashka

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Clive, it's not because everyone else has one, it's because they're sturdy, have good glass and fit my specifications.


As to the .25-06 being over-scoped, it'll be used for foxing, potentially at range, and long-range bunnies and crows, so a bit of magnification is appreciated. Additionally, I want superb quality glass, because I'll probably end up doing a good bit of hunting on open mountains in poor light, and because I don't like shelling out any money and not getting excellent stuff.

Have you tried anything else?

Malaga2

kakashka wrote: »

No offence Mal but did you see the Sako 75 bit??

Offence ... at what? scope choice or choice of calibre?

clivej

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Clive, it's not because everyone else has one, it's because they're sturdy, have good glass and fit my specifications.

AND way overpriced .................IMO

It wasn't me!

kakashka wrote: »

Have you tried anything else?

Weaver, Zeiss, Schmidt and Bender, various lower quality makes. Of all, Weaver have as good quality of glass in daylight as any of the others, but trail off in low light. Schmidt and Bender are lightyears ahead of the others, but cost twice the price. Nightforce I found fantastic, great impression of build quality and such.

Also looking at the Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50. About the same quality of optics as the Nightforce, for less money. Less excellent reticle choice, doesn't seem to be illuminated, but the rest is there. Any opinions on these?

kakashka

S&B Light years ahead ????????i think NOT.you have to spend on Zeiss these days to get quality,otherwise you may as well take Clive's advice.NF are over priced and over rated,sure they may be great when locked at high X but sounds like you need an all round scope.

It wasn't me!

I've had a go of a PMII and if I could afford one it would be top of the list by a mile, far and away the best scope I've ever used.

I am looking for an all round scope, so what do you reckon within the parameters I've suggested?

ejg

Honest?
go for a 4.5-14x50 Conquest with target turrets and side paralax.
No Illumination but the plex or I think #20 reticule is great even at last light. Glass is way better than Nightforce in my opinion.
Nice light scope at a good price if someone is traveling to the states.

I've shot bunnies over 300m with a 3-12x50 Schmidt zenith FD7 which worked well. That would have the illumination but no paralax. Nice thing is the FD7 is a very fine reticule. Just getting precision hunter turrets fitted. This scope costs almost 3 times as much as the conquest.

edi

It wasn't me!

Looks like it's down between the Conquest and the Nightforce now. No experience with the Conquest myself. It's cheaper, supposedly has better glass, but worse reticles and no illumination. Nightforce has those, and I don't see any problem with the glass, personally. I'll see if I can try the two side by side and decide then I guess.

foxshooter243

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Looks like it's down between the Conquest and the Nightforce now. No experience with the Conquest myself. It's cheaper, supposedly has better glass, but worse reticles and no illumination. Nightforce has those, and I don't see any problem with the glass, personally. I'll see if I can try the two side by side and decide then I guess.

Didnt really enter into this debate, but ive been using a nightforce and swarovski scope for several years now, ive also bought a pm2 second hand
or should i say six months old for 1000 euro:eek:-but ill tell you this my swarovski will soon be traded in for another nightforce;)
as for the pm 2 i sold it to my mate for the same money i paid for it.
thats my tuppence worth.

kakashka

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I've had a go of a PMII and if I could afford one it would be top of the list by a mile, far and away the best scope I've ever used.

I am looking for an all round scope, so what do you reckon within the parameters I've suggested?

(IMO) IOR would be my choice for you considering your requirements..if your comparing scopes then i think you need to compare like with like.my PM is very slightly behind my Swarov,5-25x56/6-24x50..IOR might be a little heavy but well built and tick all your boxes,you'll get a super scope for approx 1k

meathstevie

Since the .25-06 is a very flat shooting round is paralax adjusment essential ? Personally I have the low end of the Zeiss Conquest range on a .22 Hornet and it's a great piece of kit. I've looked through similarly priced Bushnells, Weavers, Leupold etc and none come near in sharpness or low light visibility. I've looked through a Nightforce once and found it to be very similar to the Zeiss.

It wasn't me!

I must admit, I'm thinking Nighforce if I can get a decent price on it, otherwise Zeiss it may be, unless I find a nice Swarovski with the parallax adjustment and such. Incidentally the parallax adjustment is to have if I should change calibres when re-barrelling the gun. Doesn't hurt to get it now.

Incidentally, for those interested in buying quality scopes at US prices and actually getting them shipped, These people seem to be the same crowd from Euro Optics with the facility to ship internationally, even quote shipping to Ireland in their auctions.

For instance, a Nightforce NXS 3-15x56 NP2-DD comes in at €1110.99 plus $65 shipping, which I think isn't so bad.

jwshooter

is that plus duty and excise and vat

It wasn't me!

jwshooter wrote: »

is that plus duty and excise and vat

Yep, so add a little under 25%, but it still comes in cheaper than here, where they start at 1600-odd.

clivej

IWM it would seem to me that you had your mind made up as to which scope you were getting before you started this thread.

ormondprop

if you contact the crowd shipping to you and ask them to open the box and write "second hand" on the goods you might get away without VAT, it worked for me getting an ipod from america before and i know a few more people who have done it on drills and saws and other hardware equipment they got shipped in, it would be worth a try anyway

pm.

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Weaver, Zeiss, Schmidt and Bender,

Also looking at the Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50. About the same quality of optics as the Nightforce, for less money. Less excellent reticle choice, doesn't seem to be illuminated, but the rest is there. Any opinions on these?

i have that Zeiss on my .243 and find it great, i use it for lamping mr fox the picture an night is unreal, my shooting buddy has a top end s&b and tbh he thinks the Zeiss is more clear than his s&b scope.

jwshooter

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I must admit, I'm thinking Nighforce if I can get a decent price on it, otherwise Zeiss it may be, unless I find a nice Swarovski with the parallax adjustment and such. Incidentally the parallax adjustment is to have if I should change calibres when re-barrelling the gun. Doesn't hurt to get it now.

Incidentally, for those interested in buying quality scopes at US prices and actually getting them shipped, These people seem to be the same crowd from Euro Optics with the facility to ship internationally, even quote shipping to Ireland in their auctions.

For instance, a Nightforce NXS 3-15x56 NP2-DD comes in at €1110.99 plus $65 shipping, which I think isn't so bad.

1460euro for a 3.5-15x50 nxs

endasmail

jwshooter wrote: »

1460euro for a 3.5-15x50 nxs

that not a bit dear ?

freddieot

€1,460 or there abouts does not seem like any kind of bargain. Cheaper to buy in the UK as the exchange rate is still very good. In fact fora little bit more you would probably get an NSX 12-42 x 56.

No Customs Duty \ IE VAT - the price you see is what you pay.

jwshooter

freddieot wrote: »

€1,460 or there abouts does not seem like any kind of bargain. Cheaper to buy in the UK as the exchange rate is still very good. In fact fora little bit more you would probably get an NSX 12-42 x 56.

No Customs Duty \ IE VAT - the price you see is what you pay.

that is in the uk the sports man gun centure "one of the cheapest in the country.

Vegeta

Don't get the 12-42 Nightforce, price aside, its overkill

I have one and there is no need for 42 times mag. Also it has less MOA adjustments than the 32 or 22 times mag scopes and to be honest even on longer range about 22-25 times magnification is all I've ever really needed

I personally don't think the glass on a Nightforce scope is that impressive. The rest of the scope is excellent, so reliable and durable but I have been more impressed by glass on cheaper scopes.

Nightforce are a great scope and I love it for its features, the glass is great but not amazing and I would definitely recommend the brand.

I cant comment on other scopes as I have not owned all of them but from my research if I were to buy another budget target scope it would be the Bushnell Clive has. All the features I'd want and a good price too

jwshooter

i have a nikko stirling on my .22 its a 4.5-14x50 mill dot diamond it cost something think 250 euro .
its as clear and as bright as my nsx 5-15 x50 .

the nightforce are way over rated and over priced.

PS , i would not put the nikko on a stalking rifle unless i had to .

IWM is dead right put the best glass you can afford ,but i would be buying my binos first

Jonty

jwshooter wrote: »

but i would be buying my binos first

A common mistake, which I made to my detriment

clivej

jwshooter wrote: »

i have a nikko stirling on my .22 its a 4.5-14x50 mill dot diamond it cost something think 250 euro .
its as clear and as bright as my nsx 5-15 x50 .

the nightforce are way over rated and over priced.

PS , i would not put the nikko on a stalking rifle unless i had to .

IWM is dead right put the best glass you can afford ,but i would be buying my binos first

JW I went the Nikko route first with a Nighteater 8-32x60 AG IR great bit of kit and the glass was good.
But after looking though a cheaper Bushnell Banner I could see the difference in quality.
My son has the Nikko Nighteater 6-24x56 AG IR and finds it does the job he wants it for i.e. night lamping foxes.

IWM I'll be at the fox shooting comp on the 17th where you can have a drool over my Bushnell Elite :rolleyes::rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

clivej wrote: »

IWM I'll be at the fox shooting comp on the 17th where you can have a drool over my Bushnell Elite :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Cool, will be glad to have a look at it. Won't be shelling out for some time yet.

Vegeta

clivej wrote: »

My son has the Nikko Nighteater 6-24x56 AG IR and finds it does the job he wants it for i.e. night lamping foxes.

One of the lads had one of those scopes on his .17hmr and it was awful. Could not focus the thing correctly and at any decent magnification the picture would be blurred with a yellow/blue haze. Only scope I have looked through and thought was bad.

Maybe he got a dud one but he changed it very shortly thereafter. Haven't looked through another one since his.

I had a bushnell banner too, think its still on my .22lr actually, grand little scope but I hate adjustable objectives.