HSE your view?

FlutterinBantam

Breaktown wrote: »

I must say, I really love their logic of closing the A&E in Nenagh and Ennis hospitals so that people can travel to the "Centre of Excellence" in Limerick, which is unequipped to deal with any more patients. One man has already died because of that.

http://www.independent.ie/health/latest-news/my-dying-husband-had-no-ae-to-go-to-1713697.html

I love the logic of an expensive fully staffed hospital in towns where they get 3 or four people per night.

byhookorbycrook

Spent 8 hours last summer waiting to be admitted. The radiologist and the nurse seemed to be having a row and kept saying "tell that nurse I said.." and sending me back to A and E, then I'd be sent back down with a "tell him I said",not ideal at any stage but especially when you have mobility problems. When I did get to a bed it was beside a window which was jammed half open and wouldn't close. he 4 days I was there, I looked at rubbish under two beds that was never removed.Twice a nurse tried to give me the wrong tablets, when corrected she gave me the wrong dose.


Later last summer I was admitted to a Bons ,place was spotless, staff from domestic to consultant professional and helpful.

The two-tier in one easy illustration.

How come one can do things so well and the other so badly?Because one in a public hospital under the HSE, the other by a private company.So it would seem the fault is with HSE Admin.

Saibh

Until someone or a few people who work in middle/higher management wake up and see for themselves that the HSE is in a mess, nothing will change.

papajimsmooth

amacachi wrote: »

I've not had horrible experiences with the health service, and lately most of my family have had fairly positive ones. They do seem to like giving as many drugs and injections as possible when you're going to be paying for it though, since I got a medical card they don't seem to over-prescribe as much, probably because there's no cash in it.

Thats just retarded, its not as if the nurse's and doctors are on a commission for every drug they give you, sure GP's in Ireland prescribe too many antibiotics but thats a different story.

galwayrush

The way Mary Hearney is pushing it, we will only have improved private health for the rich and a worse public system for the rest of us who obviously don't count.

galwayrush

I know one guy working in the HSE,middle management, got promotion but can't honestly can't say what he is suppost to be doing.

thelordofcheese

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Why would I quit my (non-HSE) job just because the HSE are incompetent?

by your own admission the HSE 'incompetent' has kept you paid for two years, it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about said 'incompetent' when you're getting a paycheck out of it.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

My friend, you obviously didn't understand the problem.

let me explain.

A service has a certain cost,say a hairdressers.

Now if your local hairdressers paid their staff €150 per hour and charged you as a result €300 for a visit,how do you think they would do?

Correct and right-out of business in a flash.

Now the hairdressers themselves might be perfect,totally skilled and good at their job,but,I say again, but, they cost too much.

Now they can work all the hours God gave them,but unless the COST BASE comes down people will not pay.

Now extrapolate that to the HSE and the Govt and taxpayer is the customer
and think it out for yourself, don't jump on the auld Flutt and kick him in the plums.


By the way the ratio of staff to mgmnt in the HSE is 14%

have a good good day sir.:D

A doctor is not a hairdresser, your analogy fails because you're not compairing like with like. Peoples health is worth more than a good haircut.

Basically, you want top class service at bottom dollar prices. That will never happen. It's a childish and naive approach.
While the HSE could well do with a restructuring, but applying amateurish caricatures of business rules to it and claiming "that'll fix it" is wishful thinking at it's most harmful.

"A fair days wage", what does that mean exactly, especially in relation to doctors and nurses?

FlutterinBantam

thelordofcheese wrote: »

by your own admission the HSE 'incompetent' has kept you paid for two years, it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about said 'incompetent' when you're getting a paycheck out of it.




A doctor is not a hairdresser, your analogy fails because you're not compairing like with like. Peoples health is worth more than a good haircut.

Basically, you want top class service at bottom dollar prices. That will never happen. It's a childish and naive approach.
While the HSE could well do with a restructuring, but applying amateurish caricatures of business rules to it and claiming "that'll fix it" is wishful thinking at it's most harmful.

"A fair days wage", what does that mean exactly, especially in relation to doctors and nurses?

Incorrect my friend,you fail because you believe health per se has a worth.

Service has a worth , my friend,and service costs reflect the ability of the customer to pay.

Would a state of the art hospital flourish in Haiti?

Would the locals be able to pay the staff like those in Ireland are paid.

No ,my friend, they would not.

My friend, your amateurish rebuttals of my arguments are to say the least puerile and contrived.

I'll spell it out.

Ireland Inc. can only afford a certain level of healthcare.

If the service providers are greedy and consumed with selfish aggrandisment then the consumer will tell them to get a fookin' bit of cop on before the whole scenario collapses.

Everybody knows this, all that is lacking is someone with the balls and chutzpah to tell these cnunts to get real.

Brian... Ola... Hello there......

papajimsmooth

According to figures from the Health Service Employers Agency on the salary scales for junior doctors, an intern junior doctor earns €35,534 per annum, while the salary scale for House Officers goes from €41,177 to €58,374.

The figures also show that the scale for Registrars goes from €53,869 to €64,384; the pay-scale for Specialist Registrar goes from €64,491 to €81,747 while the pay for Senior Registrars goes from €69,835 to €85,520.

This is hardly extravagant wages for minimum six years in college

galwayrush

papajimsmooth wrote: »

According to figures from the Health Service Employers Agency on the salary scales for junior doctors, an intern junior doctor earns €35,534 per annum, while the salary scale for House Officers goes from €41,177 to €58,374.

The figures also show that the scale for Registrars goes from €53,869 to €64,384; the pay-scale for Specialist Registrar goes from €64,491 to €81,747 while the pay for Senior Registrars goes from €69,835 to €85,520.

This is hardly extravagant wages for minimum six years in college

The problem is too many non productive people getting the wages.;)

FlutterinBantam

Heh heh, now there's naive and naive.

Mr.Lizard

thelordofcheese wrote: »

by your own admission the HSE 'incompetent' has kept you paid for two years, it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about said 'incompetent' when you're getting a paycheck out of it.

I assure you I'd have plenty of other work to keep me busy & gainfully employed had his particular job been completed on schedule, so the idea that they are keeping me in a job is an incorrect one. I'm not benefitting from the situation and tbh I'd be as happier than you to see the end of what I am currently doing. I'm merely pointing out that HSE has managed to protract a situation that should have been concluded 2 years ago thru their own inneffiency, lack of cooperation, laziness and general incompetence.

Caoimhín

papajimsmooth wrote: »

This is hardly extravagant wages for minimum six years in college

First of all that doesnt include overtime, and secondly, if a person studies medicine and becomes a doctor for financial reward then, in my opinion, they are doing it for the wrong reason.

CDfm

They might work hard but they cost an awful amount of money and give little return for the billions upon billions of euro more budgeted for them in the celtic tiger era.

The HSE and Dept of Health needs a massive CULL

Why do we need both HSE and DoH -we only need one -fire the other.

The Nursing Proffession and INO who represent them are a joke -fire em and replace them with cost and efficient Philipino Nurses. Irish nurses are pampered and lazy.

The are about unions and politics not about heath care.

Whatever you say -we cant afford them and they should fess up to the dreadful jobs and waste and push off elsewhere.

Carawaystick

The HSE decides where you can get married in Ireland. What has this go to do with health services?

If you want to get married you and your fiancé need to take time off work and go in person to see some hse minion to beg their permission. They don't open weekends or lunchtime. What has this got to do with the health service?

I spent over 2 hours one night in the Mater hospital A&E to get a tubular bandage put on. I assumed it was something special not like the two different ones I had at home so I waited like an eejit. By the time I got the bandage it was after 10pm and the pharmacy had closed so I couldn't get my painkillers and the doctor wouldn't give me any.

holly1

I have a friend who is a sister in a certin hospital and she says the amount of waste that goes on is UNBELIVEABLE,she blames management and M.H.

CDfm

Carawaystick wrote: »

The HSE decides where you can get married in Ireland. What has this go to do with health services?

If you want to get married you and your fiancé need to take time off work and go in person to see some hse minion to beg their permission. They don't open weekends or lunchtime. What has this got to do with the health service?

I spent over 2 hours one night in the Mater hospital A&E to get a tubular bandage put on. I assumed it was something special not like the two different ones I had at home so I waited like an eejit. By the time I got the bandage it was after 10pm and the pharmacy had closed so I couldn't get my painkillers and the doctor wouldn't give me any.

That says it all - pampered prima donnas - let loose doing everything they can to avoid providing the services they need to.

Remember the patient on trollies figures the nurses used to release - it just showed usall they werent doing their jobs.

holly1 wrote: »

I have a friend who is a sister in a certin hospital and she says the amount of waste that goes on is UNBELIVEABLE,she blames management and M.H.

You are just proving it and people like your friend sit idly by and do nothing.

why doesnt she whistleblow to the newspapers.

FlutterinBantam

Why doesn't she get off her fat arse and do something about it!!!

chocgirl

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Why doesn't she get off her fat arse and do something about it!!!

Not that simple, who does she complain to? She's effectively gagged by the HSE, part of the contract. If she cracks down on staff working under her she can be accused of bullying.

CDfm

chocgirl wrote: »

Not that simple, who does she complain to? She's effectively gagged by the HSE, part of the contract. If she cracks down on staff working under her she can be accused of bullying.

She would be doing her job which is managing and if she doesnt do that then she is incompetant and should not be in the job.

She is part of the problem and should be fired.

chocgirl

CDfm wrote: »

She would be doing her job which is managing and if she doesnt do that then she is incompetant and should not be in the job.

She is part of the problem and should be fired.

I agree that it's part of the problem but it's not going to change, allegations of bullying are taken extremely seriously by the hse, unions love this kind of thing and clinical staff are given very little training in actually managing staff when they get to that grade. I personally think that clinical staff should not be put in management roles, or very rarely anyway, a good nurse doesn't equate to a good manager.

CDfm

chocgirl wrote: »

I agree that it's part of the problem but it's not going to change, allegations of bullying are taken extremely seriously by the hse, unions love this kind of thing and clinical staff are given very little training in actually managing staff when they get to that grade. I personally think that clinical staff should not be put in management roles, or very rarely anyway, a good nurse doesn't equate to a good manager.

her job is to manage and thats what she should do.

she knows it but wants to be liked by her staff. When she took on a post of responsibility that should have stopped.

its not bullying to ask a subordinate to do their job -in fact by not doing so she is disrespecting patients and you and i the taxpayer.

If her staff dont do what they are supposed to do they leave the patients down - I saw this with a relative of mine in hospital and people like your friend are dangerous in the extreme IMHO.

If it was your Mum Or Dad you wouldnt be quite so relaxed.

Nightwish

chocgirl wrote: »

I personally think that clinical staff should not be put in management roles, or very rarely anyway, a good nurse doesn't equate to a good manager.

Most hospital managers are in fact nurses.

CDfm

Nightwish wrote: »

Most hospital managers are in fact nurses.

OMG:eek:

Thats the problem.

irish_bob

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

If you want to be pedantic and anal, hey ,fine

The percentage of management in the HSE is 14%.

Quite frankly your attitude typifies the malaise in the HSE, everyone thinks THEY are the ones keeping the ship together, when in reality a sea change is needed.

The taxpaying public cannot afford the current set up, pump more money in and more people in the HSE would lie back and say sure plenty of shills. here, we'll slap in another wage rise,better conditions, and sure we'll call in sick if don't fee'll like working.


Back to basics, weed out the double jobbers, the passengers, the non achievers , malingerers,and the coasters.

Hold on to the people who are dedicated and want to do the job for a fair wage and show some enterprise and enthusiasm.

that's the way I'd sort it out:D


Game is up lads.

that requires political will and bravery which this goverment has none of , a coalition of fine gael - labour could not deal with the problem either as labours masters ,the unions would not allow it , anyone who,s main priority is to sort out our health service must do one thing , vote fine gael and pray that they can form a goverment without labour

CDfm

irish_bob wrote: »

that requires political will and bravery which this goverment has none of , a coalition of fine gael - labour could not deal with the problem either as labours masters ,the unions would not allow it , anyone who,s main priority is to sort out our health service must do one thing , vote fine gael and pray that they can form a goverment without labour

its not a political matter its a management issue.

the HSE are tasked with managing the service and the INO make it political.

they should bite the bullet with reaslistic staff evaluations and job descriptions and just get on with it.

if that leads to strikes face them but kow towing to unions is just perpetuating thew misery

chocgirl

CDfm wrote: »

her job is to manage and thats what she should do.

she knows it but wants to be liked by her staff. When she took on a post of responsibility that should have stopped.

its not bullying to ask a subordinate to do their job -in fact by not doing so she is disrespecting patients and you and i the taxpayer.

If her staff dont do what they are supposed to do they leave the patients down - I saw this with a relative of mine in hospital and people like your friend are dangerous in the extreme IMHO.

If it was your Mum Or Dad you wouldnt be quite so relaxed.

I'm not actually relaxed about it at all and I certainly don't condone it but unfortunately I do know how the service works. Quick example from where I work.

Have been having considerable difficulty getting my secretary to do her job over the past year, I mean the basic tasks that I require her to do so that I can do my job, so patients get seen, waiting list kept respectable etc.

Currently spending 2-3 hours out of my 7 hour day doing her work and tidying up her mess. This is wreaking havoc on the service and waiting list has gone through the roof.

I have discussed this with my manager and she has discussed it with her manager(big big bucks manager), no progress has been made. I ask her to do a simple task, she listens, says she'll do it but acts on nothing.

I wrote her a short list of what absolutely has to be done daily, no improvement. So started ringing her each morning to remind/ask her to do said tasks(with consent of my manager). I was never rude, never raised my voice but I was persistent.

It all came to a head last week, what happened? I was warned by my manager to back off and stop "pestering" said secretaary. She had put in a verbal complain to her manager but didn't want to take it further once I stopped "pestering" her. So what do I do? You're right patients are ultimately suffering but I can't lose this job!

CDfm

chocgirl wrote: »

I'm not actually relaxed about it and I certainly don't condone it but unfortunately I do know how the service works. Quick example from where I work.

Have been having considerable difficulty getting my secretary to do her job, the basic task that I require her to do so that I can do my job, patients get seen, waiting list kept respectable.

Currently spending 2-3 hours out of my 7 hours day doing her work and tidying up her mess. This is wreaking havoc on the service and waiting list has gone through the roof.

I have discussed this with my manager and she has discussed it with her manager(big big bucks manager), no progress has been made. I ask her to do simple task, she listens, says she'll do it but acts on nothing.

I wrote her a short list of what absolutely has to be done daily, no improvement. So started ringing her each morning to remind/ask her to do said tasks(with consent of my manager). I was never rude, never raised my voice but I was persistent.

It all came to a head last week, what happened? I was warned by my manager to back off and stop "pestering" said secretaary. She had put in a verbal complain to her manager but didn't want to take it further once I stopped "pestering" her. So what do I do? You're right patients are ultimately suffering but I can't lost this job!

Well thats fine and dandy - but you have a professional body and you should speak to your representantive sharpish so that when you do stand up for yourself you have backbone.

You have learned something and should ask your professional body for better.

Good for you for posting it and getting angry as its an insult to your integrity.

Whats sauce for the goose..............

chocgirl

CDfm wrote: »

Well thats fine and dandy - but you have a professional body and you should speak to your representantive sharpish so that when you do stand up for yourself you have backbone.

You have learned something and should ask your professional body for better.

Good for you for posting it and getting angry as its an insult to your integrity.

Whats sauce for the goose..............

Ok but have been warned by my employer that this has to end here, enough bad press etc, bullying complaints taken very seriously etc! Professional bodies don't want to know you when it comes to this kind of thing and if it did go further union would undoubtedly sort it out but I'd always be marked as difficult when it came to promotion. Things aren't that black and white, idealism is fine in theory but when you're on your own and you have so much to lose it's not easy, just my opinion though!

CDfm

chocgirl wrote: »

Ok but have been warned by my employer that this has to end here, enough bad press etc, bullying complaints taken very seriously etc! Professional bodies don't want to know you when it comes to this kind of thing and if it did go further union would undoubtedly sort it out but I'd always be marked as difficult when it came to promotion. Things aren't that black and white, idealism is fine in theory but when you're on your own and you have so much to lose it's not easy, just my opinion though!

make sure to meet with your professional body representative and dont be bullied into not to IMHO.