UPC 120Mbps BB coming...

Mountjoy Mugger

According to the guys over at Silicon Republic

I wonder how readily available it will be to the normal user.

dlofnep

Deadly, but they'll probably stick some silly 40gig cap on it or something.

dlofnep

dlofnep wrote: »

Deadly, but they'll probably stick some silly 40gig cap on it or something.

Brilliant news! blu-rays on demand!(jking!) 40gig?? its currently 250gig+, why would they lower it?

dlofnep

david7536 wrote: »

Brilliant news! blu-rays on demand! 40gig?? its currently 250gig+, why would they lower it?

250+?

Source?

dlofnep

dlofnep wrote: »

250+?

Source?

source=me, downloading ~ that monthly and got calls about it only the months i went over 250.

everdead.ie

I imagine that there will be new pricing structure's and the unlimited download T&C's will be adjusted
120m/b what happens when we run out of internet to look at?

dlofnep

david7536 wrote: »

source=me, downloading ~ that monthly and got calls about it only the months i went over 250.

Well, you're not the policy maker. They don't specify an actual limit - other than specifying an arbitrary value in their fair usage policy.

My service was limited for downloading about 50 gigs a few months back for a month. Given that they don't specify a limit, then it's entirely at their own discretion.

Mountjoy Mugger

dlofnep wrote: »

My service was limited for downloading about 50 gigs a few months back for a month. Given that they don't specify a limit, then it's entirely at their own discretion.

Were you on the 3MB/6MB product?

The reason I ask is the 10Mbps and 20Mbps were listed as unlimited since the most recent upgrades. I agree about the discretionary aspect of it however. But I'm sure UPC will realise the futility about lowering the caps if they want to sell the product.

I have a feeling that this will only be available to SMEs for the initial period though, seeing as it was announced at a Chamber of Commerce do..

bk

UPC already have this in the Netherlands, here is how the pricing looks:
http://www.upc.nl/internet/

60mb/6mb €60.50
120mb/10mb €80.50

Interestingly if you look at their slower/cheaper products and compare them with UPC Ireland, you see that UPC Ireland are actually slightly cheaper*, so the above prices for the 60 and 120 mb products should be possible for upc.ie

* However it looks like upc.nl are cheaper when you combine them with TV,DVR,phone etc.

Funny thing the article says it should be rolled out by mid 2010, which is actually a slip, it was supposed to be before end of 2009.

When they have this in place No ISP in ireland will be able to compete with there Speed Vs Price.

I could see a time when UPC 120Mbs would be in and around the same price as an Eircom 24Mb.

Great news for ireland, now people can see that UPC Europe are not the same NTL jokers.

Jev/N

I wonder will this apply to the areas they're upgrading at the moment i.e. the new UPC BB areas?

everdead.ie

Jev/N wrote: »

I wonder will this apply to the areas they're upgrading at the moment i.e. the new UPC BB areas?

It wouldn't make any sense for upc to put in old cable instead of new it should include new areas

dlofnep

dlofnep wrote: »

Well, you're not the policy maker. They don't specify an actual limit - other than specifying an arbitrary value in their fair usage policy.

My service was limited for downloading about 50 gigs a few months back for a month. Given that they don't specify a limit, then it's entirely at their own discretion.

Correct, im not a senior manager/policy maker for UPC :rolleyes:
I dont think it is as arbitrary as you think but i cant prove this, i only have my own experience to go by. If you were limited for 50gigs on the 10 or 20Mbit packages then it must have been a mistake! I know people downing 150+ a month for the past 12 months with no consequence.

bk

everdead.ie wrote: »

It wouldn't make any sense for upc to put in old cable instead of new it should include new areas

These high speeds are made possible by using DOCSIS 3, which uses channel bonding.

DOCSIS 3 operates over the same coax and fibre cables that DOCSIS 1 operates over. In order to upgrade to DOCSIS 3 they only need to replace the modem in your home and the DOCSIS equipment at the node. The cable upgrades that they have been doing has been to build an excellent quality core network that will make it easy for them to upgrade to even higher speeds in future.

dlofnep

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

Were you on the 3MB/6MB product?

The reason I ask is the 10Mbps and 20Mbps were listed as unlimited since the most recent upgrades. I agree about the discretionary aspect of it however. But I'm sure UPC will realise the futility about lowering the caps if they want to sell the product.

I have a feeling that this will only be available to SMEs for the initial period though, seeing as it was announced at a Chamber of Commerce do..

Nope, I was with the 10mbps service.

dlofnep

david7536 wrote: »

I dont think it is as arbitrary as you think but i cant prove this, i only have my own experience to go by. If you were limited for 50gigs on the 10 or 20Mbit packages then it must have been a mistake! I know people downing 150+ a month for the past 12 months with no consequence.

Well, considering there was a huge thread here on boards from people who were also throttled - I'd say that it was.

In saying that - it appears to be OK for the last few months, so it was probably only a temporary test that they were doing.

What did they say to you on the phone? Did they threaten to cancel/throttle your service?

thebman

This is great news but clearly a business offering.

Its good to know the network is at least capable of it though

dlofnep

dlofnep wrote: »

Well, considering there was a huge thread here on boards from people who were also throttled - I'd say that it was.

In saying that - it appears to be OK for the last few months, so it was probably only a temporary test that they were doing.

What did they say to you on the phone? Did they threaten to cancel/throttle your service?

Ive read that thread and all evidence points to area specific and time specific throttling, not at all linked to download amount as far as i can see.

They just told me to download less or they would be forced to cancel service.

Back on topic! I think this will be available to anyone in an enabled area as it is in the netherlands.

vibe666

dlofnep wrote: »

Well, considering there was a huge thread here on boards from people who were also throttled - I'd say that it was.

In saying that - it appears to be OK for the last few months, so it was probably only a temporary test that they were doing.

What did they say to you on the phone? Did they threaten to cancel/throttle your service?

the fair usage policy (FUP) limit on the 10mbps and 20mbps packages is 250gb per month which includes data downloaded plus data uploaded.

anyone ging over that limit gets a letter from NTL/UPC asking them to not do it (I still have mine at home, I'll scan it and post it later if you don't believe me) or they risk either being upgraded to the (undocumented) "extreme" package for twice the price, or disconnected, at UPC's discretion without notice.

they don't throttle for going over anything, although they do appear to be throttling P2P traffic during peak times in the evenings, which is fair enough IMHO.

they made an announcement last year when they rolled out the Dutch service that they would have it rolled out to 'all UPC territories' by the end of 2009, but I honestly didn't think it would include Ireland, so I'm well chuffed.

I know I've always been a loud voice in the NTL knocking brigade, but if they really can do this then fair fcuk's to them and I'll be getting myself an I Luv UPC t-shirt printed up pronto.

assuming they increase the FUP five fold to allow us to make the most of it.

looks like I might get to fulfill my lifetime's dream of joining the EZTV seedfarm after all!

_Sidhe_

dlofnep, you are the only person I've seen on this forum who's ever mentioned getting a letter at 60gb.
The fact that everyone else suggested they got it at in or around 250, starts to lean away from your experience a bit.
The fact that I usually go well above 100gb and always have does also.
It's DL and UL so maybe you were uploading a lot.


The fact that you're reffering to possible throtteling as proof of this confuses me completely.
UPC throttling has nothing to do with how much you're downloading.

BT yes, as they throttle your speed down to nothing if you go over 100gb.
UPC it seems ask you to cut back if you go over about twice that.
They don't throttle your speed if you go over the limit

hightower1

I honestly dont get what the problem is with the UPC cap? It seems to commenly come into effect at 250gb which blows every other ISP out of the water by a long shot but still people demand more?

250gb is a huge amount of downloads per month, hell its nearly 2 full laptops worth in 30 days like? Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.

(when i say gift horse i mean in terms of price vs cap/speed)

hightower1

hightower1 wrote: »

I honestly dont get what the problem is with the UPC cap? It seems to commenly come into effect at 250gb which blows every other ISP out of the water by a long shot but still people demand more?

250gb is a huge amount of downloads per month, hell its nearly 2 full laptops worth in 30 days like? Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.

(when i say gift horse i mean in terms of price vs cap/speed)

But my laptop has a 500gig drive

kaimera

hrm...120Mb + some sort of AUP or 24Mb no contention no cap service...

120Mb down would be ****ing awesome tho..no mention of upload speed?

dlofnep

_Sidhe_ wrote: »

dlofnep, you are the only person I've seen on this forum who's ever mentioned getting a letter at 60gb.
The fact that everyone else suggested they got it at in or around 250, starts to lean away from your experience a bit.
The fact that I usually go well above 100gb and always have does also.
It's DL and UL so maybe you were uploading a lot.


The fact that you're reffering to possible throtteling as proof of this confuses me completely.
UPC throttling has nothing to do with how much you're downloading.

BT yes, as they throttle your speed down to nothing if you go over 100gb.
UPC it seems ask you to cut back if you go over about twice that.
They don't throttle your speed if you go over the limit

Firstly, I never stated I received a letter. I stated that I was throttled.

Secondly, bold text is so 1995.

Ranicand

That is my best result I like my net fast I would love 120mb.

Ranicand

dlofnep wrote: »

Firstly, I never stated I received a letter. I stated that I was throttled.

Sounds sore did anybody else witness the incident?

dlofnep

dlofnep wrote: »

Firstly, I never stated I received a letter. I stated that I was throttled.

Secondly, bold text is so 1995.

More likely to be contention at peak times.

_Sidhe_

Never said you did recieve a letter.
In fact you said this.

dlofnep wrote: »

My service was limited for downloading about 50 gigs a few months back for a month. Given that they don't specify a limit, then it's entirely at their own discretion.

So basically you felt that your BB was throttled due to your downloading.
It wasn't but you jumped to conclussions and fell flat on your face.

Wait 'a go.

That worked out well for you.



P.S: And the bold was simply due to the settings on the pc I ws using at the time.
You stick with the condescending attitude though, and ignore the fact that you were completely wrong.:rolleyes:

hightower1

cisk wrote: »

More likely to be contention at peak times.

Agreed, i have never heard of any UPC customer being throttled.
They ether upgrade or disconnect you.

crawler

bk wrote: »

These high speeds are made possible by using DOCSIS 3, which uses channel bonding.

DOCSIS 3 operates over the same coax and fibre cables that DOCSIS 1 operates over. In order to upgrade to DOCSIS 3 they only need to replace the modem in your home and the DOCSIS equipment at the node. The cable upgrades that they have been doing has been to build an excellent quality core network that will make it easy for them to upgrade to even higher speeds in future.

euroDOCSIS 3.0 BK - 8Mhz channel bonding as opposed to 6Mhz....next wave of certification in Cablelabs should see more CPE and CMTS gear too...Nice to see little vendors do well do - SERIOUS bun fights between Broadcom (BCMxxx range) and TI (puma range) too driving chipset development which is super.

dlofnep

cisk wrote: »

More likely to be contention at peak times.

No, it wasn't contention. The torrents would max out at a specific rate (think it was about 25 or 30KB/s - can't remember off the top of my head). It was certainly throttled. Contention would have varied results of bandwidth with torrents - When your torrents max out at a specific peak, and never go beyond it - it's most certainly throttling.

dlofnep

hightower1 wrote: »

Agreed, i have never heard of any UPC customer being throttled.
They ether upgrade or disconnect you.

Well then, you obviously missed this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055132322&highlight=throttle

I was categorically throttled.

dlofnep

_Sidhe_ wrote: »

So basically you felt that your BB was throttled due to your downloading.
It wasn't but you jumped to conclussions and fell flat on your face.

No, I didn't jump to conclusions. Where is your evidence to state that I wasn't throttled for downloading a specific amount less than your 250MB? I called them about it at the time - and while I was certainly throttled, none of the agents were aware of it - it wasn't until I spoke to a manager that I got somewhere and my service was immediately resumed to normal rates for torrents.

_Sidhe_ wrote: »

You stick with the condescending attitude though, and ignore the fact that you were completely wrong.:rolleyes:

Once again, you have no proof that I was wrong. It is your "opinion".

Mountjoy Mugger

Can you keep the throttling discussion to that thread, please?

Fresh Pots

Fair play to UPC, I expected an upgrade, but 120Mb is insane! On the 6Mb package at the moment, hope I'm on 20Mb by next year at no extra cost, that would be savage!

everdead.ie

kaimera wrote: »

hrm...120Mb + some sort of AUP or 24Mb no contention no cap service...

120Mb down would be ****ing awesome tho..no mention of upload speed?

Should be inline with the nedtherlands package so should be 10mb upload

vibe666

yeah, saw that 120mbps down 10mbps up would be savage.

balls, now i have to re-think my whole network. never bothered moving past 802.11g wifi and 10/100 ethernet as I never actually needed it. oh well, got to move with the times though, I never thought my Ethernet connection would ever be my broadband bottleneck!

I'm pretty sure UPC have been throttling torrents during peak times though, and I've seen other threads suggesting the same, but I don't think UPC have confirmed it yet and I don't think it has anything to do with overall usage, just them doing their best to keep the network usable for the majority during peak times, which as I said is reasonable imho.

EDIT: here's the (slightly crinkly trodden on) UPC letter in case anyone missed it.

great

just out of interest will the fibre network be only rolled out in Dublin in 2010 or other cities (Galway?)

everdead.ie

should be step by step with dublin the biggest market it should get it first then cork galway etc

bk

crawler wrote: »

euroDOCSIS 3.0 BK - 8Mhz channel bonding as opposed to 6Mhz....next wave of certification in Cablelabs should see more CPE and CMTS gear too...Nice to see little vendors do well do - SERIOUS bun fights between Broadcom (BCMxxx range) and TI (puma range) too driving chipset development which is super.

Yep, DOCSIS in the US, euroDOCSIS here, 6MHz channels in the US as they use NTSC which has lower resolution and therefore needs less bandwidth, 8MHz here as we use PAL for TV, which has higher resolution and needs more bandwidth

And great to see lots of activity and competition in this area.

great wrote:

just out of interest will the fibre network be only rolled out in Dublin in 2010 or other cities (Galway?)

Well anywhere that currently has broadband over cable has already been upgraded to fibre. I believe UPC have already upgraded the majority of their network to fibre.

IgsTer

Think this news has swung me into going with UPC so.

I know we probably wont see it for a year or more, but just news that its coming means their doing a whole lot more work on their network than eircon ever bothered to do.

I think It was around christmas time just gone, new grey sheilded cable got put up around the houses gutters in my estate which enabled me to get broadband etc. Is that actual fibre cable or just coaxial? and If just coaxial could it take those speeds?

There using Hybrid fibre-coaxial.

There network is Fibre from there Headend out to the different Nodes and then Use Coaxial to distribute it into the various homes.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_fibre-coaxial

vibe666

afaik the rollout of the 20mbps broadband was the sign that they'd upgraded everything to EuroDOCSIS 3.0

look what Wikipedia says about the maximum speeds for EuroDOCSIS v3.0

Direction Downstream Downstream Upstream (Both)
Version DOCSIS EuroDOCSIS
1.x 42.88 (38) Mbit/s 55.62 (50) Mbit/s 10.24 (9) Mbit/s
2.0 42.88 (38) Mbit/s 55.62 (50) Mbit/s 30.72 (27) Mbit/s
3.0 4channel +171.52 (+152) Mbit/s +222.48 (+200) Mbit/s +122.88 (+108) Mbit/s
3.0 8channel +343.04 (+304) Mbit/s +444.96 (+400) Mbit/s +122.88 (+108) Mbit/s

I'd like to be the first to say "hummana hummana hummana"

Shiny

vibe666 wrote: »

afaik the rollout of the 20mbps broadband was the sign that they'd upgraded everything to EuroDOCSIS 3.0

look what Wikipedia says about the maximum speeds for EuroDOCSIS v3.0

Direction Downstream Downstream Upstream (Both)
Version DOCSIS EuroDOCSIS
1.x 42.88 (38) Mbit/s 55.62 (50) Mbit/s 10.24 (9) Mbit/s
2.0 42.88 (38) Mbit/s 55.62 (50) Mbit/s 30.72 (27) Mbit/s
3.0 4channel +171.52 (+152) Mbit/s +222.48 (+200) Mbit/s +122.88 (+108) Mbit/s
3.0 8channel +343.04 (+304) Mbit/s +444.96 (+400) Mbit/s +122.88 (+108) Mbit/sI'd like to be the first to say "hummana hummana hummana"

Delicious tbh. :pac:... (NOM NOM NOM)

Kensington

vibe666 wrote: »

afaik the rollout of the 20mbps broadband was the sign that they'd upgraded everything to EuroDOCSIS 3.0

UPC are still only on DOCSIS 2.0. The Scientific Atlanta EPC2203 cablemodem which they use won't do DOCSIS 3.0 so people upgrading to packages requiring this will need a modem swop out.

That's not to say their node's aren't DOCSIS3.0 capable, but at the moment, everything is running on DOCSIS2.0.

vibe666

ah, okay, didn't realise that. was sure someone had said it was docsis 3.0, but i guess I was wrong.

still, it's all looking good and shiny in UPC land!.

Kensington

Most certainly is! I really hope they do go ahead and launch something like 120Mbps, would give eircom a run for their money. Although like yourself the network here in the house will need a complete overhaul to get those speeds!

All UPC modems at the moment are running Docsis 1.1.

They can use both at the same time as in the Uk, standard modems for under 20Mb and Docsis 3.0 Modems for the 50MB+.

_Sidhe_

Cisk is right, UPC Ireland are still on DOCSIS 1.1.
The SA modems are capable of DOCSIS 2 however.
Not sur if they'll go to 2 this year (maybe upgrading to 40-50) and then 3 next year with the role out o 120 within a year and a half.

bk

vibe666 wrote: »

Direction Downstream Downstream Upstream (Both)
Version DOCSIS EuroDOCSIS
1.x 42.88 (38) Mbit/s 55.62 (50) Mbit/s 10.24 (9) Mbit/s
2.0 42.88 (38) Mbit/s 55.62 (50) Mbit/s 30.72 (27) Mbit/s
3.0 4channel +171.52 (+152) Mbit/s +222.48 (+200) Mbit/s +122.88 (+108) Mbit/s
3.0 8channel +343.04 (+304) Mbit/s +444.96 (+400) Mbit/s +122.88 (+108) Mbit/s

FYI while excellent, those speeds are shared with everyone else on the same node.

bk

_Sidhe_ wrote: »

Cisk is right, UPC Ireland are still on DOCSIS 1.1.
The SA modems are capable of DOCSIS 2 however.
Not sur if they'll go to 2 this year (maybe upgrading to 40-50) and then 3 next year with the role out o 120 within a year and a half.

DOCSIS 2 only improves the upload speed, it doesn't improve the download speed, so UPC will probably just skip over it to 3.