Flash, Flash, Flash - busted.

Sully

Okay, stupid title. Forgive my lack of humour!

Can someone clarify something for me. If an indivdual is caught by the gun or the GATSO van say every morning over a week - it still is points and a fine each time they are caught, right?

gdamedic

Yup, its a different offence each time :eek:

Random

That's what I hate about the system. Rather than learn from your mistake you're left with a year long driving ban (or whatever it is) for clocking up 12 points. You'll get you 7 penalty point letters in the door a couple of weeks later.

Yes, you'll learn your lesson... but not in the right way I don't think.

Murphy(Cork)

Random wrote: »

That's what I hate about the system. Rather than learn from your mistake you're left with a year long driving ban (or whatever it is) for clocking up 12 points. You'll get you 7 penalty point letters in the door a couple of weeks later.

Yes, you'll learn your lesson... but not in the right way I don't think.

There is no lesson to learn in the first place. To obtain a license in this country you learn the speed limits for a particular category of road and it's not like they don't tell ya with sign posts what the speed limit is.

No excuses really

Random

happyhappy wrote: »

if you learned after the first time and slowed down after getting caught once you will only have 2 penalty points! if you keep speeding 6 more times through speed cameras i think you deserve to get a ban! and thats coming from me, who has never done anyone for speeding!!

You're missing the point. If you get a flash and points out in the post it can take 2 or 3 months. If you get caught by the flash a few days in a row then you may not know you have done something wrong until you get a few envelopes about penalty points in the door a few weeks / months later.

(assuming you didn't notice the flash or whatever, obviously if you were aware of it the first time and blantently did it then fair enough ... )

Terrontress

The interesting question which has been posed, but never answered, on here is what would happen if you drove continuously at 150km/h along a motorway and were caught by two cameras. Does it count as one or two offences?

Hooch

Random wrote: »

You're missing the point. If you get a flash and points out in the post it can take 2 or 3 months. If you get caught by the flash a few days in a row then you may not know you have done something wrong until you get a few envelopes about penalty points in the door a few weeks / months later.

(assuming you didn't notice the flash or whatever, obviously if you were aware of it the first time and blantently did it then fair enough ... )

No offence intended but I think your missing the point. The Gatso vans are for enforcing the Road Traffic Act, speeding to be exact. They are not for revenue generating or for ''scaring'' drivers into slowing down. They enforce the law. If your silly enough to driver over the limit....which to be far are there for a reason....then you are eventually going to be caught. TBH all the better a driver gets two of three tickets. Im sure they will never do that again. Dont blame the Gatso. You could lose your licence driving from Cork to Dublin if you speed or drive recklessly .

(generally Gatso do detect several cars speeding twice in the same day)

Hooch

Terrontress wrote: »

The interesting question which has been posed, but never answered, on here is what would happen if you drove continuously at 150km/h along a motorway and were caught by two cameras. Does it count as one or two offences?

Two offences if the time is different. Say driving from Cork to Dublin.

detected speeding in Glanmire = 2 points, detected Mitchelstown = 2 points, detected Cahir = 2 points, detected Littleton = 2 points, detected Portlaoise = 2 points and detected M7 = 2 points.
Licence = shredder for 6 months.:)

Our man in Havana

Why does it take at least a month to 6 weeks to notify people of offences?

Hooch

Bond-007 wrote: »

Why does it take at least a month to 6 weeks to notify people of offences?

Its just the system involved. Fastest available were told. :rolleyes:

Hagar

Terrontress wrote: »

The interesting question which has been posed, but never answered, on here is what would happen if you drove continuously at 150km/h along a motorway and were caught by two cameras. Does it count as one or two offences?

Probably three, speeding, leaving the scene of a crime followed by more speeding.

Random

nice guy always wrote: »

No offence intended but I think your missing the point. The Gatso vans are for enforcing the Road Traffic Act, speeding to be exact. They are not for revenue generating or for ''scaring'' drivers into slowing down. They enforce the law. If your silly enough to driver over the limit....which to be far are there for a reason....then you are eventually going to be caught. TBH all the better a driver gets two of three tickets. Im sure they will never do that again. Dont blame the Gatso. You could lose your licence driving from Cork to Dublin if you speed or drive recklessly .

(generally Gatso do detect several cars speeding twice in the same day)

There are some roads where the speed limit appears out of no where or things like temporary roadworks etc.

I will agree with you that if you're speeding then you're speeding and you've broken the law, I just don't feel the current system is very fair.

Our man in Havana

nice guy always wrote: »

Its just the system involved. Fastest available were told. :rolleyes:

Look at the UK. They have to have the notice in your hand within 14 days or no dice.

Our man in Havana

nice guy always wrote: »

Two offences if the time is different. Say driving from Cork to Dublin.

detected speeding in Glanmire = 2 points, detected Mitchelstown = 2 points, detected Cahir = 2 points, detected Littleton = 2 points, detected Portlaoise = 2 points and detected M7 = 2 points.
Licence = shredder for 6 months.:)

A good barrister would argue all that down to one continous offence.

Hooch

Random wrote: »

There are some roads where the speed limit appears out of no where or things like temporary roadworks etc.

I will agree with you that if you're speeding then you're speeding and you've broken the law, I just don't feel the current system is very fair.

I agree about some speeds, like regional roads at 80 when they were 100 kmph 2 years ago. But our job im afraid is to enforce the law. Just our job and not personal as a lot of drivers think:)

Hooch

Bond-007 wrote: »

A good barrister would argue all that down to one continous offence.

A good barrister tried and failed. State argued that both time and town lands were different. Appeal was not allowed and the 4 notices stood (14 points as he paid first one and contested other three) No reference available for the case, sorry

daveharnett

nice guy always wrote: »

Two offences if the time is different.

But the time is linear - is always different. For arguments sake, what if you had two gatsos within 5 miles of each other? What about one mile?
What about parked side by side? Why not get one gatso to take six photos and ban people in one go?

At some point, you have to decide when one offence begins and another starts, no?

Our man in Havana

Were these intercepts or cameras?

When you mean the state you mean the local super?

Our man in Havana

daveharnett wrote: »

But the time is linear - is always different. For arguments sake, what if you had two gatsos within 5 miles of each other? What about one mile?
What about parked side by side? Why not get one gatso to take six photos and ban people in one go?

At some point, you have to decide when one offence begins and another starts, no?

Quite. Plenty of case law on that if you look to the UK courts. UK precedents are persuasive but may not be binding here.

Hooch

daveharnett wrote: »

But the time is linear - is always different. For arguments sake, what if you had two gatsos within 5 miles of each other? What about one mile?
What about parked side by side? Why not get one gatso to take six photos and ban people in one go?

At some point, you have to decide when one offence begins and another starts, no?

Yes hince the reason that the Gatso locations are chosen with that in mind. That said if a member stopped you for speeding, and another lets say mile down the road another member stops you for speeding. Do you think that the driver deserves to get a chance the second time. And before you say it there is no difference between being stopped and the Gatso detecting you. Its the same offence.

Bond-007 wrote: »

Were these intercepts or cameras?

When you mean the state you mean the local super?

One stop and 3 Gatso tickets. Wasnt the local Supt it was State Solicitor, in circuit court.

Bond-007 wrote: »

Quite. Plenty of case law on that if you look to the UK courts. UK precedents are persuasive but may not be binding here.

Not binding what so ever. Last time I checked were not the UK:D

Our man in Havana

Principles of UK law are binding here. The good old common law system. Ah sure what would I know.
All those years down in Blackhall Place wasted.

Hooch

Bond-007 wrote: »

Principles of UK law are binding here. The good old common law system. Ah sure what would I know.
All those years down in Blackhall Place wasted.

I thought we were talking about the RTA:D:p Not common law!!

Blackhall place.....prefer honourable society of kings inn myself:pac::pac::D:D(only messing you before you attack!!!!)

Our man in Havana

daithip

Random wrote: »

There are some roads where the speed limit appears out of no where or things like temporary roadworks etc.

I will agree with you that if you're speeding then you're speeding and you've broken the law, I just don't feel the current system is very fair.

Just on your point there random, most temporary speed limits are that 'temporary' having no legal status and are more of an advisory nature but I've seen recently where speed limits on the roadworks on the M3 have been written into the local bye-laws. Now I'm just waiting for the multitude of motorists calling into the station who've been caught by the new gatso vans at these points:(

fermoyboy

daithip wrote: »

most temporary speed limits are that 'temporary' having no legal status

Temporary speed limits are the subject of a road works order which means they are legal speed limits.

Each temporary speed limit may not be written into local bye-laws but the road works orders are covered in all the bye-laws so when they are issued they become effective limits by law.

Our man in Havana

Indeed.

But many LAs won't bother doing it for short term works.

Green Hornet

nice guy always wrote: »

I agree about some speeds, like regional roads at 80 when they were 100 kmph 2 years ago. But our job im afraid is to enforce the law. Just our job and not personal as a lot of drivers think:)

The Gatso has been camped in Waterford for the last few weeks and I assume it's catching people right, left and centre. Maybe numerous times in the one week.

Wont most of the people who travel that particular stretch of road be banned at that rate? Or is there a certain amount of discretion with regards to the "excess" speed? For instance, in a 50 km/h zone (dual carriageway as it happens) will everybody who travels at say 54 km/h be served with a ticket or is a little more discretion used (say 60 km/h)?

Hooch

Green Hornet wrote: »

The Gatso has been camped in Waterford for the last few weeks and I assume it's catching people right, left and centre. Maybe numerous times in the one week.

Wont most of the people who travel that particular stretch of road be banned at that rate? Or is there a certain amount of discretion with regards to the "excess" speed? For instance, in a 50 km/h zone (dual carriageway as it happens) will everybody who travels at say 54 km/h be served with a ticket or is a little more discretion used (say 60 km/h)?

5 Kmph over is the lowest limit allowed. But members allow different speeds as per conditions etc.

In regard to the banning issue. I have no pity for them to be honest. If they do the crime they must do the time. Speeding is speeding. Not knowing the GATSO is there is no excuse IMO:)

Sully

Whats the offical procedure with issuing them again? A guard has how long to submit them onto the system and for it to issue the fine? Iv heard 2 weeks, 30 days, 6 months...

Our man in Havana

4 months is the effective limit.

Shield

Things are a bit different for us.

Link

Sierra Oscar

Only issue I really have is with temporary speed limits in place for road works, which are often inadequately sign-posted yet the temporary limit is enforced.