Leinster's tactics

Tim Robbins

It's always a real test for any coach when a playing a team that's far better than you to somehow come up with tactics that will give your game a chance.

In 2004, Ireland went to England (when England ere hot favourites) and beat them. O'Sullivan targetted the lineout and noticed that the English defensive line was mis-positioned out wide.

We won. Well done EOS.

I'm thinking what the hell could the Leinster staff come up with.

I wouldn't bother going wide at all. I think Howlett and Dowling are Munster's two best defensive backs. I'd aim to go through the middle.

I seriously consider playing Fitz at full back even if Kearney is fit. Kearney's big boot is useful in some games, but when you don't see your team having any lineout advantage or the other team is just better than you I see no point in giving them the ball.

Fitz is a better stepper than Kearney. This is more relevant when there isn't as much room and you need someone to break tackles.

I think if with employ BOD, Darcy, Contemponi and Fitz, Heaslip all coming through the middle we might get some breaks.

I would mix up the center positions, so in some cases I'd have Darc or Bod at 10 and Dr. Phil out wide.

Other than that, I think we should keep the ball in hand rather than kicking it. Once Contemponi slices one kick, his confidence will fall apart. We have no chance of taking their lineout ball either so again I see no point in trying to beat them in this type of game. We'll be hammered.

As for the lineout, I'm really worried about the Hayse POC combination. I haven't a clue what Leinster should do there.

So how do you think Leinster should approach this game tactically?

toomevara

Tim Robbins wrote: »

So how do you think Leinster should approach this game tactically?

Hard and fast i.e. to their strengths, play rugby, be uninhibited and bloody well enjoy it! Don't get dragged into trench warfare with Munster....totally agressive, committed and unified defence, and don't get involved in any psychological warfare.

Serenity Now!

Tim Robbins wrote: »

So how do you think Leinster should approach this game tactically?

The hard way ie. not going to ground and committing Munster forwards to the breakdown. The Munster lineout would be more effective than Leinster's scrum as a platform for field position.

All depends how its reffed too. Munster's pack going to ruck off their feet or Leinster's on-the-deck habits can be the death of them.

Very little margin for error in this game by both teams. It will be tight and will probably be hell to watch if the viewer is from neither province.

So long as an Irish team wins the final, I don't really care who wins next weekend.

Pshan

Interesting that you give munster the lineout - with Elsom, O'Kelly and Toner competing for the opposition lineout it could go 50/50.

The centre channel will be very tight if Leinster decide to try and run the ball down the centre all the time, I think in Croke Park the width of the field should be an advantage to a team that can move the ball.

IMHO, Leinster need to run at Munster with ball in hand and make them commit to the tackle, Leinster seem to be able to release a quick ball during the takcle, whatever they do they so avoid the fancy backline moves that look great if they come off but leave you in tatters when they don't.

The first 20 minutes will be hugely imortant for both teams and whoever manages to keep their gameplan in tact will suceed.

May the best team win and more importantly may the winner go on and win the Cup.

Tim Robbins

Pshan wrote: »

Interesting that you give munster the lineout - with Elsom, O'Kelly and Toner competing for the opposition lineout it could go 50/50.

Hayse is by far the best lifter. Flannery is by far the best thrower.

Pshan

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Hayse is by far the best lifter. Flannery is by far the best thrower.

I hope you're right

remus808

Don't think a major tactical shift is the answer: Munster will go out and play their game, and we should go out and play ours. Trying to rewrite the script for the sake of one match and one opponent can be disasterous (though it does work at times, Saracens gave Munster a scare last year). But I think we have to back ourselves to be good enough on the day (and I think we are). Just have to hope it all clicks and we're in with as good a shot as anyone.

Either way I'l be in the hill cheering the lads on till the final whistle, sourced my ticket today!

anonymous_joe

Interested that you call Munster a far better team.

Munster and Leinster played very recently.

It was one of the first times I've seen the Munster players really challenged this season up front, whether for Ireland or Munster.

Anyway, we went to Munster and dominated their pack, the Munster props in particular suffered, and I've a feeling that Cian Healy might have ruined a certain someone's chances of getting to go to South Africa this summer.

Leinster are earning obscene amounts of turnover ball lately, but we're not doing anything with it. We've primarily kicked the ball, and badly at that. Munster fans were so excited about Contepomi messing up that they missed a major point - if Contepomi hadn't messed up Leinster would have gone in at half time in the lead. I don't expect it, but I'd love to see him play with the confidence he's shown against the Irish in an Argentinian shirt. He's played badly against Munster a couple of times publically, he needs to remember the damage he's done to some of the same players.

In short, play like we played in the last match, but improve the standard of kicking - if the kicking's weak, run with the ball. But play the game we know can challenge Munster.

Again, I think Munster our favourites, but they're also beatable. It's up to Leinster to go out there, to be calm, collected and quietly confident. We've at least five players who are amongst the world's best, (more if CJ and D'Arcy were fit and on top of their game) so we've no need to be scared.

TarfHead

anonymous_joe wrote: »

It was one of the first times I've seen the Munster players really challenged this season up front, whether for Ireland or Munster .. if Contepomi hadn't messed up Leinster would have gone in at half time in the lead.

After the last meeting I wondered if I had being watching a different game to the media correspondents. In the game I saw, Leinster were competitive, especially at turnover. If Contepomi had been able to keep the scoreboard ticking over, then the final result would have been different. That is not to say that Munster would not have won, but the late tries put a gloss on the scoreboard that did not reflect the narrative of the match.

More in desperation than hope, I pray that Leinster have being keeping some big plays in their locker for Saturday. One must hope that the collective rugby intelligence of Gaffney, Contepomi and O'Driscoll is more than has been on show in the ML recently.

bleg

they have to go out willing to change their gameplan on the fly, much in the same way munster do week in week out.

Pshan

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Interested that you call Munster a far better team.

Munster and Leinster played very recently.

It was one of the first times I've seen the Munster players really challenged this season up front, whether for Ireland or Munster.

Anyway, we went to Munster and dominated their pack, the Munster props in particular suffered, and I've a feeling that Cian Healy might have ruined a certain someone's chances of getting to go to South Africa this summer.

Leinster are earning obscene amounts of turnover ball lately, but we're not doing anything with it. We've primarily kicked the ball, and badly at that. Munster fans were so excited about Contepomi messing up that they missed a major point - if Contepomi hadn't messed up Leinster would have gone in at half time in the lead. I don't expect it, but I'd love to see him play with the confidence he's shown against the Irish in an Argentinian shirt. He's played badly against Munster a couple of times publically, he needs to remember the damage he's done to some of the same players.

In short, play like we played in the last match, but improve the standard of kicking - if the kicking's weak, run with the ball. But play the game we know can challenge Munster.

Again, I think Munster our favourites, but they're also beatable. It's up to Leinster to go out there, to be calm, collected and quietly confident. We've at least five players who are amongst the world's best, (more if CJ and D'Arcy were fit and on top of their game) so we've no need to be scared.

That game was discussed to death but you seem to have missed the point, Leinster had their opportunity to score and fluffed it, if they had converted their points do you think that Munster would have taken the same decisions as they did, so to say if Leinster had scored more points it would have been closer is just plain crazy.

That was the last game and next Saturday is another new ball game two teams that know each other well and there will only be one winner, the big question now is who will that winner be?????????

Tim Robbins

Pshan wrote: »

That game was discussed to death but you seem to have missed the point, Leinster had their opportunity to score and fluffed it, if they had converted their points do you think that Munster would have taken the same decisions as they did, so to say if Leinster had scored more points it would have been closer is just plain crazy.

That was the last game and next Saturday is another new ball game two teams that know each other well and there will only be one winner, the big question now is who will that winner be?????????

It's the last twenty minutes of a match that sort out great teams from good teams. Munster grind teams down in the first 60 and then pull away in the 20.

Leinster rarely come back in a game if they fall behind.

Podge_irl

Pshan wrote: »

so to say if Leinster had scored more points it would have been closer is just plain crazy.

Yes...atrocious logic...

I realise Munster could have upped their game a bit more, and are very good at doing so when needed, but Leinster had the upper hand in that game for the first 30 mins and could easily have gone 9-3/9-0 ahead in slightly different circumstances and who knows what would have happened from there? Once Leinster had to chase the game it was already over.

anonymous_joe

TarfHead wrote: »

After the last meeting I wondered if I had being watching a different game to the media correspondents. In the game I saw, Leinster were competitive, especially at turnover. If Contepomi had been able to keep the scoreboard ticking over, then the final result would have been different. That is not to say that Munster would not have won, but the late tries put a gloss on the scoreboard that did not reflect the narrative of the match.

More in desperation than hope, I pray that Leinster have being keeping some big plays in their locker for Saturday. One must hope that the collective rugby intelligence of Gaffney, Contepomi and O'Driscoll is more than has been on show in the ML recently.

To the victor go the spoils etc. Most articles are written on the basis of the result, not in terms of what happened.

There's no conspiracy against Leinster in the media, just a few more Munster fans. And their perspective is different to ours for fairly understandable reasons. We see the positives in our game and the negatives in theirs, and vice versa for them.

Pshan wrote: »

That game was discussed to death but you seem to have missed the point, Leinster had their opportunity to score and fluffed it, if they had converted their points do you think that Munster would have taken the same decisions as they did, so to say if Leinster had scored more points it would have been closer is just plain crazy.

That was the last game and next Saturday is another new ball game two teams that know each other well and there will only be one winner, the big question now is who will that winner be?????????

I'm a fairly rabid Manchester United fan, but I don't think we've some sort of divine right to outplay teams. Sometimes we get outplayed, and some teams are just better than us.

Leinster created opportunities to score. If Leinster create chances to score, then they're playing well. Missing them is a problem, but it doesn't mean we're a bad team.

The idea that Munster would somehow magically scored more points if Leinster had taken their chances is laughable. Munster are possibly the best team in Europe, and Leinster are behind them (though not by much) but the best team still loses. Ulster thrashed you this season after all.

I'd expect Munster to up their game after the last game against Leinster, because they at least will have realised how close that game was at times. Theyre very ruthless and cold professionals, who play a very cool dispassionate game designed to ratchet up the pressure on their opponents, and they're phenomenal at that. Going to take a good performance from either team for a win though.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

It's the last twenty minutes of a match that sort out great teams from good teams. Munster grind teams down in the first 60 and then pull away in the 20.

Leinster rarely come back in a game if they fall behind.

I honestly disagree.

I think it's the 80 minutes that seperate great teams from good ones. You're either better or not.

Pshan

As I said above the match discussion was done to death but if you want to start it all again then go ahead.

IIRC, Munster were called back twice when a try was going to be scored.
Would Munster have made the same amount of substitutions if the game was as tight as some of you think it should have been? D'Arcy would never have scored his try only for the all the changes on the munster side, the lads simply weren't up to the speed of the game.

BTW - I have never ever said or intimated that Munster have a devine right to outplay a team but to say only for a few mis kicked penalties the game was Leinsters is so far from the truth that I wonder did you watch the game.

anonymous_joe

Pshan wrote: »

As I said above the match discussion was done to death but if you want to start it all again then go ahead.

IIRC, Munster were called back twice when a try was going to be scored.
Would Munster have made the same amount of substitutions if the game was as tight as some of you think it should have been? D'Arcy would never have scored his try only for the all the changes on the munster side, the lads simply weren't up to the speed of the game.

BTW - I have never ever said or intimated that Munster have a devine right to outplay a team but to say only for a few mis kicked penalties the game was Leinsters is so far from the truth that I wonder did you watch the game.

Munster beat us twice this season. They deserved to both times. But they were not that much better. In fact, in both games the deciding factor has been the half-backs. (Food for thought where one O'Gara is involved. )

As a Leinster fan, talking about Leinster's tactics, I see potential in playing like we did against Munster this season, the tactics have been right, the implementation flawed.

Anyway, with the injury to O'Leary (poor bugger ) I think there's a bit of a hole opening up at the 10 channel. O'Gara's not as weak as people make him out to be, but he was the joint top for missed tackles in the 6 Nations. (Given the size power and speed of the players who most regularly bomb down the 10 channel, this isn't a surprise. Nor is it some groundless attack. He's targeted for a reason, as our a lot of other 10s. Guys who play in the back row tend to be fast and powerful, of course the 10 will miss tackles) Given a backrow featuring Elsom and Heaslip (O'Brien and Jennings are far from poor runners too) the weaker physical presence of Stringer offers less power in the half-backs, which could be exploited by Cheika.

I don't see a massive amount of difference in terms of real strength in the rest of the pitch. Both teams have good packs and good backs, so the contest there should be relatively even. Cullen's been playing some fantastic stuff lately, and could challenge O'Connell and O'Callaghan (probably won't beat 'em but still) while there'll be some interesting contests in the front row and out wide.

The areas for Leinster to target would be the half backs then, and possibly the centre, given that Earls for all of his obvious talent lacks the experience of the centres opposing him, while Mafi while developing into a better player every season is as good as (at the least) but less experienced than any 12 Leinster are likely to start.

Other than that, the only other potential weakness is kicking behind Howlett and Dowling, who aren't as good under the high ball as guys like Dempsey and Fitzgerald (who both happen to be full backs after all).

Again, I'd think Munster will triumph on the day, but there are ways for Leinster to challenge them.

phog

With Kearney out, Dempsey will surely be FB and while defensively he's good he isn't the same threat going forward as Kearney.

Could Cheika go with Sexton at 10, Conters at 12, D'Arcy on the wing and Fitzy at FB? Now, that would be interesting.

For what it's worth I think both team should play to their strenghts and ignore trying to play at the oppostions wekanesses, sometimes weaknesses can be perceived rather than actual and you can lose your own game seeking a weakness that doesn't materialise.

Whatever the outcome they'll be an Irish team in Edinburgh for the final and may that team win and bring the Heineken Cup back to Ireland. We should then have the ML, H/Cup, 6Ns and the TC all in Ireland from the same season.

bleg

phog wrote: »

Could Cheika go with Sexton at 10, Conters at 12, D'Arcy on the wing and Fitzy at FB? Now, that would be interesting.

semi final really isn't the time to be experimenting. would that be the 77th or 78th different combination he's tried this season?

Fishtits

Guys, on the time line Munster are at least two years ahead of Leinster, this year they have been awesome.

They've been there & done that so many times. Barring an earthquake they will win. Be realistic. Lets hope for a decent performance.

(fishtits, will be there, in a Leinster season ticket seat.)

danthefan

bleg wrote: »

semi final really isn't the time to be experimenting. would that be the 77th or 78th different combination he's tried this season?

There's nothing really experimental there. All the players would be playing in positions they're familiar with and comfortable in. Having said that there's no chance that's the team that'll be selected.

Size=everything

my team

1.Healy
2.Jackman
3.CJ
4.Cullen
5.Toner
6.Elsom
7.O'Brien
8.Heaslip
9.Whiteaker
10.Sexton
11.Keogh
12.Contepomi
13.O'Driscoll
14. D'arcy
15.Fitzgerald

Podge_irl

Size=everything wrote: »

my team

1.Healy
2.Jackman
3.CJ
4.Cullen
5.Toner
6.Elsom
7.O'Brien
8.Heaslip
9.Whiteaker
10.Sexton
11.Keogh
12.Contepomi
13.O'Driscoll
14. D'arcy
15.Fitzgerald

Never, ever going to happen, but by Christ I'd love to see that.

Tomtom364

targeting the halfbacks of ROG and stringer never works as well as people think it will.

And though stringer lacks phsyical strgenth and size he takes down any forward that comes at him.
Also, munster support the halfbacks very well. Wallace is fast and powerful and reaches the 10 channel very quickly. If you watch munster this season you will see that often, ROG makes a first hit and just slows the player down which allows wallace to wrap them up and prevent offloads too

On a final note. In postions where munster think the team may target ROG, they replace him. Scrums close to munsters line often see mafi at 10 and lineouts, espically against decent backlines, see wallace at either 10 or 12

Timothy Bryce

Tomtom364 wrote: »

targeting the halfbacks of ROG and stringer never works as well as people think it will.

And though stringer lacks phsyical strgenth and size he takes down any forward that comes at him.
Also, munster support the halfbacks very well. Wallace is fast and powerful and reaches the 10 channel very quickly. If you watch munster this season you will see that often, ROG makes a first hit and just slows the player down which allows wallace to wrap them up and prevent offloads too

On a final note. In postions where munster think the team may target ROG, they replace him. Scrums close to munsters line often see mafi at 10 and lineouts, espically against decent backlines, see wallace at either 10 or 12

+1

One of Wally's core jobs seems to be to cover the 10 channel off the set piece. Munster opposition haven't got much change from crashers straight at ROG. I think trying to expose any potential weakness of the back 3 is the way to go for Leinster, mainly through use of the high ball.

Junior

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

+1

One of Wally's core jobs seems to be to cover the 10 channel off the set piece. Munster opposition haven't got much change from crashers straight at ROG. I think trying to expose any potential weakness of the back 3 is the way to go for Leinster, mainly through use of the high ball.

I'm not sure about that - I do think the Munster backline are more inclined to run and attack than *shock horror* the Leinster back line and if yer booting ball down their throats all day it could lead to broken play, and I feel Dougie, Mafi and Earls would profit from that.

I think realistically Leinster need to play a Munster game of old, i.e. stick it up the jumper, take it thru the phases, tire Munster out and try profit from mistakes. However if this will work I'm not sure. I know that Leinster seem to have a slightly stronger pack than Munster but the link up and running between the pack and the Leinster back line seems to be their failing point this season, bar the game at the RDS where they hockeyed Wasps.

However if that link clicks on the day they are capable of anything.

Tomtom364

Up the jumper may work. But munsters control and defence is very powerful.

Remember the scarlets game. About 32 phases with no mistakes

premierstone

Size=everything wrote: »

my team

1.Healy
2.Jackman
3.CJ
4.Cullen
5.Toner
6.Elsom
7.O'Brien
8.Heaslip
9.Whiteaker
10.Sexton
11.Keogh
12.Contepomi
13.O'Driscoll
14. D'arcy
15.Fitzgerald

Every perspective 15 I see for Leinster I find myself starting to think ''Jaysus this is pretty impressive and we could be in serious troube'' but then I get to Whitaker and the relief is palpable - if Leinster manage to win a HC with him at 9 then they are some team and I will take my hat off to them.

BTW if sexton starts at 10 there will be one 10 channell targeted alright but it wont be Munsters, Mafi et all have long memories Jonathan be very carefull

Timothy Bryce

premierstone wrote: »

Every perspective 15 I see for Leinster I find myself starting to think ''Jaysus this is pretty impressive and we could be in serious troube'' but then I get to Whitaker and the relief is palpable - if Leinster manage to win a HC with him at 9 then they are some team and I will take my hat off to them.

BTW if sexton starts at 10 there will be one 10 channell targeted alright but it wont be Munsters, Mafi et all have long memories Jonathan be very carefull

Sexton is imeasurably better in defence than ROG - he put in some huge hits against Glasgow at the weekend. Don't think the Mafi incident will phase him.

the immortals

whatever the tactics are we will have to be at our best to beat munster..........

Podge_irl

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

Sexton is imeasurably better in defence than ROG - he put in some huge hits against Glasgow at the weekend. Don't think the Mafi incident will phase him.

What he said. Sexton is comfortably the best Irish 10 in defence. As regards "undue attention" from the Munster backrow - he was obviously targeted down in Musgrave and the RDS last year and it didn't phase him. If Mafi and co. are overly concerned with targeting Sexton it will just leave space elsewhere.

targeting the halfbacks of ROG and stringer never works as well as people think it will.

And though stringer lacks phsyical strgenth and size he takes down any forward that comes at him.

No he doesn't. Both himself and ROG also often concede ground in the tackle when they do make it. Munster's backrow does a great job of defending their channel, but its weaker for the loss of O'Leary and if Leinster do target it then it will force Munster's backrow to keep a closer eye on it and hopefully open up space elsewhere.

danthefan

Sexton really nailed one of the Ulster forwards in the RDS a few weeks back, I had to rewind it and watch it again because I could hardly believe it. Whoever it was picked out Sexton deciding he was a weak link but it didn't turn out that way at all. Sexton's defence would not be even a slight concern. Mafi can run at him all he likes, he's not going to smash anyone out of the way anyway.

Pshan

Podge_irl wrote: »

What he said. Sexton is comfortably the best Irish 10 in defence. As regards "undue attention" from the Munster backrow - he was obviously targeted down in Musgrave and the RDS last year and it didn't phase him. If Mafi and co. are overly concerned with targeting Sexton it will just leave space elsewhere.



No he doesn't. Both himself and ROG also often concede ground in the tackle when they do make it. Munster's backrow does a great job of defending their channel, but its weaker for the loss of O'Leary and if Leinster do target it then it will force Munster's backrow to keep a closer eye on it and hopefully open up space elsewhere.

So Munster targetting the 10 channel leaves space elsewhere but Leinster targetting the 10 will create space??????????

BTW, for Leinster to target a channel they will need the ball first and I think that is one of Munster's greatest strenghts, keeping the ball or slowing down opposition ball

Both teams should play to their strenghts and not try to play to perceived weaknesses in the opposition.

anonymous_joe

Pshan wrote: »

So Munster targetting the 10 channel leaves space elsewhere but Leinster targetting the 10 will create space??????????

BTW, for Leinster to target a channel they will need the ball first and I think that is one of Munster's greatest strenghts, keeping the ball or slowing down opposition ball

Both teams should play to their strenghts and not try to play to perceived weaknesses in the opposition.

Winning turnovers is Leinster's great strength.

Everywhere I look these two teams cancel each other except at half-back.

I'd love to see Sexton start and Contepomi offer options for him at 12.

Podge_irl

Pshan wrote: »

So Munster targetting the 10 channel leaves space elsewhere but Leinster targetting the 10 will create space??????????

BTW, for Leinster to target a channel they will need the ball first and I think that is one of Munster's greatest strenghts, keeping the ball or slowing down opposition ball

Well yeah, cause Leinster's backrow won't be helping Sexton in defence. Wallace does well to cover the 10 channel, but it means he's not somewhere else. The Munster half-backs are better in pretty much every facet of the game bar defence, where Leinster definitely have an advantage.

Munster gave up something like 7/8 turnovers to Leinster in just the first half of the last game. Leinster have become very good at turning over ball (and very **** at using it productively).

Danakin

I think Leinster will resist playing the kick-the corners,10-man game because of the personnel involved. Contepomi or Sexton are going to be far less familiar with the infamous lines and angles of the Croke Park pitch which O'Gara himself struggled with at times.

Loose kicking on such a wide pitch to Howlett,Dowling and especially Warwick will be punished with Leinster having the ball run back at them. Against the Scarlets(and I admit taking potential tactics from a game like that is dodgy) Munster ran an awful lot of ball from their own 22 and I think we might see both teams attacking from deep. Leinster work best off long range attacks off turnover ball and I don't see an up-the-jumper grind as doing anything but putting even more pressure on themselves and limiting their abilities.

anonymous_joe

Danakin wrote: »

I think Leinster will resist playing the kick-the corners,10-man game because of the personnel involved. Contepomi or Sexton are going to be far less familiar with the infamous lines and angles of the Croke Park pitch which O'Gara himself struggled with at times.

Loose kicking on such a wide pitch to Howlett,Dowling and especially Warwick will be punished with Leinster having the ball run back at them. Against the Scarlets(and I admit taking potential tactics from a game like that is dodgy) Munster ran an awful lot of ball from their own 22 and I think we might see both teams attacking from deep. Leinster work best off long range attacks off turnover ball and I don't see an up-the-jumper grind as doing anything but putting even more pressure on themselves and limiting their abilities.

Leinster attack from deep? Hahahaha.

Danakin

Yeah maybe I'm being more hopeful than realistic with that idea. If we could see those two backlines go hell for leather at each other then we'd really have the game we all want to see. Really though where and why has the Leinster gone?

Cuchulain

I think Leinster can only really target two areas

1) Munster scrum
2) ROG/Stringer defense

I cant see Toner and O Kelly upsetting the Munster lineout.

anonymous_joe

Cuchulain wrote: »

I think Leinster can only really target two areas

1) Munster scrum
2) ROG/Stringer defense

I cant see Toner and O Kelly upsetting the Munster lineout.

Leo Cullen's been very good in the lineout lately.

There are lots of areas Leinster can target, but neither team has that many weaknesses.

accensi0n

Leinster 22 announced: (joke - it's what i'd love...)

Cian Healy
Bernard Jackman
Stan Wright
Devon Toner
Leo Cullen
Rocky Elsom
Shane Jennings
Jamie Heaslip
Paul O'Donahue
Jonathon Sexton
Simon Keogh
Felipe Contepomi
Brian O'Driscoll
Isa Nacewa
Luke Fitzgerald

CJ Van Der Linde
John Fogarty
Malcom O'Kelly
Sean O'Brien
Chris Whitaker
Fergus McFadden
Girvan Dempsey

cruiserweight

Is this for real? Do you have a link?

accensi0n wrote: »

Leinster 22 announced:

Cian Healy
Bernard Jackman
Stan Wright
Devon Toner
Leo Cullen
Rocky Elsom
Shane Jennings
Jamie Heaslip
Paul O'Donahue
Jonathon Sexton
Simon Keogh
Felipe Contepomi
Brian O'Driscoll
Isa Nacewa
Luke Fitzgerald

CJ Van Der Linde
John Fogarty
Malcom O'Kelly
Sean O'Brien
Chris Whitaker
Fergus McFadden
Girvan Dempsey

accensi0n

cruiserweight wrote: »

Is this for real? Do you have a link?

sorry, should have put a 'joke' comment in originally. here's hoping though.

Podge_irl

accensi0n wrote: »

Leinster 22 announced: (joke - it's what i'd love...)

Cian Healy
Bernard Jackman
Stan Wright
Devon Toner
Leo Cullen
Rocky Elsom
Shane Jennings
Jamie Heaslip
Paul O'Donahue
Jonathon Sexton
Simon Keogh
Felipe Contepomi
Brian O'Driscoll
Isa Nacewa
Luke Fitzgerald

CJ Van Der Linde
John Fogarty
Malcom O'Kelly
Sean O'Brien
Chris Whitaker
Fergus McFadden
Girvan Dempsey

Alas, for reasons that defy anything even approaching logic, POD isn't in the squad

Cuchulain

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Leo Cullen's been very good in the lineout lately.

There are lots of areas Leinster can target, but neither team has that many weaknesses.

Didnt realise he was in contention for a place, thought he was still injured. Even still its gonna be hard to disrupt the Munster lineout. Its a big game for the Leinster forwards as I think thats where the game will be won or lost.

Looking forward to the team selections, if you compare position for position I really only see 5 Leinster players that come out better/even to their counterparts. Kearney, Fitzgerald, BOD, Rocky ,Heaslip maybe Healy and Wright at a push.

anonymous_joe

Cuchulain wrote: »

Didnt realise he was in contention for a place, thought he was still injured. Even still its gonna be hard to disrupt the Munster lineout. Its a big game for the Leinster forwards as I think thats where the game will be won or lost.

Looking forward to the team selections, if you compare position for position I really only see 5 Leinster players that come out better/even to their counterparts. Kearney, Fitzgerald, BOD, Rocky ,Heaslip maybe Healy and Wright at a push.

Yeah Cullen's been very good since he came back. We've missed him.

If I'm honest, and I do mean honest, I don't think the teams are very different in terms of quality except at half-back. There the difference has been crucial.

But I mean, Leinster have a good front row, so do Munster, two good second rows, two phenomenal back rows, centres are both strong partnerships, outside backs are also good. Not going to do a man for man comparison, but it really does strike me that half-backs the difference.

With O'Leary out Leinster might find this game more winnable, but the real problems not been O'Gara or O'Leary, it's been Whitaker and Contepomi, a 12 and a has been. With Sexton at 10 and Contepomi at 12 I'd think Leinster could do more damage to Munster than anyone else really.

IT-Guy

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Yeah Cullen's been very good since he came back. We've missed him.

If I'm honest, and I do mean honest, I don't think the teams are very different in terms of quality except at half-back. There the difference has been crucial.

But I mean, Leinster have a good front row, so do Munster, two good second rows, two phenomenal back rows, centres are both strong partnerships, outside backs are also good. Not going to do a man for man comparison, but it really does strike me that half-backs the difference.

With O'Leary out Leinster might find this game more winnable, but the real problems not been O'Gara or O'Leary, it's been Whitaker and Contepomi, a 12 and a has been. With Sexton at 10 and Contepomi at 12 I'd think Leinster could do more damage to Munster than anyone else really.

Nail on the head. Of all the Munster games I've watched, the ones v Leinster were by far the toughest and had me screaming in frustration at the amount of turnovers Munster conceded but then laughing as Contepomi (sorry, couldn't help myself) was unable to make good of the penalty opportunities. I think Sexton's a much better 10 than Contepomi and will be more of a threat if he gets runners off his shoulder when he breaks.

As for ROG/Stringer's defence, I think it's one thing that a lot of teams in the past have targeted and not had much return from it. Stringer will always bring his man down by tackling around the ankles but I wouldn't want him in a one on one situation physically on the try line. I still remember Stringer v Leota in such a situation during the Wasps v Munster semi-final in 2004 and Leota knocking Stringer back to ground the ball. That said I don't think O'Leary would have done any better against that tank!

I really think if Leinster are to win the game this Sat they'll need to target Earls' defence, he has improved enormously in this respect but he's still prone to the occasional brain-fart. Also the more obvious one of turning pressure/possession/territory into points which is something they haven't done in their last two encounters. Leinster's organisation in defence this year has been awesome to watch, if they can apply the same ability in attack then they could beat Munster. A lot of tries are scored these days not by out-playing the opposition but by out-organising them (office admins will love that one!). Sounds simplistic I know but if Leinster secure quick ruck ball then I think they could do it.

TBH though, I think Munster will still win. Not saying that because I'm a Munster fan/man but because I think we still haven't seen the best from them and Leinster will bring that out of them. Whatever the result I'm looking forward to the contest and (hopefully) the HEC Cup staying in Ireland for another year

F.A.O. Michael Cheika - please leave Sean O'Brien on the bench as he's only your best No.7 and probably the best 7 in the country. Has a hand off from hell allied with speed and strength belying his age. But who am I to suggest you pick your best players

anonymous_joe

IT-Guy wrote: »

Nail on the head. Of all the Munster games I've watched, the ones v Leinster were by far the toughest and had me screaming in frustration at the amount of turnovers Munster conceded but then laughing as Contepomi (sorry, couldn't help myself) was unable to make good of the penalty opportunities. I think Sexton's a much better 10 than Contepomi and will be more of a threat if he gets runners off his shoulder when he breaks.

Tis also easy to forget just how good a 12 Contepomi is. A midfield of O'Driscoll and Contepomi would probably be the world's strongest except maybe for Smith and Nonu. (For a club/province.)

As for ROG/Stringer's defence, I think it's one thing that a lot of teams in the past have targeted and not had much return from it. Stringer will always bring his man down by tackling around the ankles but I wouldn't want him in a one on one situation physically on the try line. I still remember Stringer v Leota in such a situation during the Wasps v Munster semi-final in 2004 and Leota knocking Stringer back to ground the ball. That said I don't think O'Leary would have done any better against that tank!

When people target O'Gara, it's not so much a case of running through him, etc. He's not that bad, it's just that he often loses ground in the tackle, and he does miss a few more than most. Just running at him won't get you tries, but using your back moves that are designed to put pressure on his channel could prove a bit more effective than running into Howlett for example.

I really think if Leinster are to win the game this Sat they'll need to target Earls' defence, he has improved enormously in this respect but he's still prone to the occasional brain-fart. Also the more obvious one of turning pressure/possession/territory into points which is something they haven't done in their last two encounters. Leinster's organisation in defence this year has been awesome to watch, if they can apply the same ability in attack then they could beat Munster. A lot of tries are scored these days not by out-playing the opposition but by out-organising them (office admins will love that one!). Sounds simplistic I know but if Leinster secure quick ruck ball then I think they could do it.

TBH though, I think Munster will still win. Not saying that because I'm a Munster fan/man but because I think we still haven't seen the best from them and Leinster will bring that out of them. Whatever the result I'm looking forward to the contest and (hopefully) the HEC Cup staying in Ireland for another year

F.A.O. Michael Cheika - please leave Sean O'Brien on the bench as he's only your best No.7 and probably the best 7 in the country. Has a hand off from hell allied with speed and strength belying his age. But who am I to suggest you pick your best players

Think O'Brien's not necessarily a 7 yet, could prove a great blindside when Rocky goes. Either way with players like Jennings, Elsom and for that matter Heaslip around him there's some good back-rows to learn from either way.

I'd like to see Jennings start with O'Brien coming on when legs are beginning to falter and try and do some damage.

IT-Guy

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Tis also easy to forget just how good a 12 Contepomi is. A midfield of O'Driscoll and Contepomi would probably be the world's strongest except maybe for Smith and Nonu. (For a club/province.)

When people target O'Gara, it's not so much a case of running through him, etc. He's not that bad, it's just that he often loses ground in the tackle, and he does miss a few more than most. Just running at him won't get you tries, but using your back moves that are designed to put pressure on his channel could prove a bit more effective than running into Howlett for example.


Think O'Brien's not necessarily a 7 yet, could prove a great blindside when Rocky goes. Either way with players like Jennings, Elsom and for that matter Heaslip around him there's some good back-rows to learn from either way.

I'd like to see Jennings start with O'Brien coming on when legs are beginning to falter and try and do some damage.

Agreed re Contepomi as a 12, the guy has serious talent but not as a 10 unless the game is loose and broken. Strong tackler too.

O'Gara tends to tackle too high on players and invariably ends up on his backside but it's something the Munster squad have adapted to and normally cover his channel well. I'm kinda glad ROG can't tackle like Wilkinson or his shoulders would have gone the same way!

As for Jennings/O'Brien, if I were a Leinster fan I'd rather O'Brien started against Munster purely cos the guy is an animal in the tackle/ruck and there'll be plenty of those on Sat. Jennings excels there as well and has the experience which is why he's starting IMO. Sure if O'Brien gets bored waiting on the bench there's always a spot for him in the Munster squad...he he

Roll on Sat...

Crash

IT-Guy wrote: »

O'Gara tends to tackle too high on players and invariably ends up on his backside but it's something the Munster squad have adapted to and normally cover his channel well.

Only problem we have there is Leinster have one of those of their own - Isa Nacewa's awful attempts at tackling can be an easy soft try in a match like this.

Tomtom364

Crash wrote: »

Only problem we have there is Leinster have one of those of their own - Isa Nacewa's awful attempts at tackling can be an easy soft try in a match like this.

espically if its mafi or dougie or dowling running at him... or marcus horan... he ends up on the wing in attack alot

anonymous_joe

IT-Guy wrote: »

Agreed re Contepomi as a 12, the guy has serious talent but not as a 10 unless the game is loose and broken. Strong tackler too.

O'Gara tends to tackle too high on players and invariably ends up on his backside but it's something the Munster squad have adapted to and normally cover his channel well. I'm kinda glad ROG can't tackle like Wilkinson or his shoulders would have gone the same way!

As for Jennings/O'Brien, if I were a Leinster fan I'd rather O'Brien started against Munster purely cos the guy is an animal in the tackle/ruck and there'll be plenty of those on Sat. Jennings excels there as well and has the experience which is why he's starting IMO. Sure if O'Brien gets bored waiting on the bench there's always a spot for him in the Munster squad...he he

Roll on Sat...

O'Brien's probably been promised Elsom's jersey once he leaves.

Crash wrote: »

Only problem we have there is Leinster have one of those of their own - Isa Nacewa's awful attempts at tackling can be an easy soft try in a match like this.

Nacewa has had an awful few months in contrast to his early days. I really hopes he rediscovers the Isa Nacewa of SUper 14s and prior to the arm break.