Can you believe in God but not be a Christian?

Sod'o swords

As per the title, can you?

I Don't expect the idea of God to be copyrighted, but is it frown upon by the Church?

Can you believe/worship heaven/God without going through the medium of a organized religion and still reap the promised benefits that worshiping God gives?

I disagree whole heartily with organized religions, but if i want to worship God on my own as such, without being classed as a "Christian" can it be done?

It's not that you would have "Christan" believes, just Godly believes.

Please don't take this as my attempt to flame, i'm not doing this to just have an argument.

Mickeroo

You can do whatever you like

anonymous_joe

Sod'o swords wrote: »

As per the title, can you?

I Don't expect the idea of God to be copyrighted, but is it frown upon by the Church?

Can you believe/worship heaven/God without going through the medium of a organized religion and still reap the promised benefits that worshiping God gives?

I disagree whole heartily with organized religions, but if i want to worship God on my own as such, without being classed as a "Christian" can it be done?

It's not that you would have "Christan" believes, just Godly believes.

Please don't take this as my attempt to flame, i'm not doing this to just have an argument.

A Theist believes in (a) god. Nothing else implied.

Seaneh

Well you posted in a Christian forums so I;m guessing you're looking for a Christian view point is which case the answer is simply put, No and also yes.

yes in that Islam and Judaism are both based on the same God as Christianity bit No in that according to christianity you cannot achive eternal life without accepting Christ as your saviour.

Yes you can believe in God, but without the acceptance of christs sacrafice for your sins you can't be a Christian as this is what Christianity is! the belife that christ died for your sins and the willingness to live by christs example.

philologos

It would be believing in a god that you have constructed yourself, rather than God as revealed to mankind. If you don't want anything to do with organised church or religion, you could always pick up the Bible and read it for yourself. Being a Christian isn't a bad thing you know?

EastWallGirl

I hope so!

You can read the bible and accept the bible but you do not need to belong to anything organised, sure there shows an organisational structure in the Greek Scriptures, but really do any of them follow it?

Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

God does not need to see you in Church, you know how you behave and if you try to apply bible principles in your life, you do not need to advertise.

If God is a God of Mercy, then I think he will forgive those of us, who find organised religion quite offensive and cannot bear to swallow their dross and support their hypocrsy.

I actually think God will look into your heart and make that decision I do not think it matters whether you attend Church, Mosque or Synagogue.

One of the major points of Jesus' preaching was to point out the emptiness of religious routines his example at the time was Jerusalem you could extrapolate it to alot of religions these days.

If you are serious and feel the need to accept Jesus as your saviour, and you want to do through bread and wine then buy some Matzoh bread and a bottle of wine and have your own simple ceremony on your home.

God is in your heart, nowhere else, develop your own spirituality.

Fanny Cradock

Sod'o swords wrote: »

As per the title, can you?

I Don't expect the idea of God to be copyrighted, but is it frown upon by the Church?

Can you believe/worship heaven/God without going through the medium of a organized religion and still reap the promised benefits that worshiping God gives?

I disagree whole heartily with organized religions, but if i want to worship God on my own as such, without being classed as a "Christian" can it be done?

It's not that you would have "Christan" believes, just Godly believes.

Please don't take this as my attempt to flame, i'm not doing this to just have an argument.

I wonder how you would frame your Godly beliefs? What context would you have?

Many Christians share a certain wariness of organised religions. I would think that for these Christians, and I count myself amongst their number, the fear is that the church might forget its place and who it is they are supposed to be serving. Indeed, this has been the case before. However, it is also possible that a person can become swept up by this notion, and they then begin to make a blanket condemnation of religion for religions sake. The fact of the matter is that there are countless good churches out there. They don't bully, brainwash or self serve.

While EastWallGirl encouraged you to develop your own spirituality - something that on the face of it seems incompatible with Christianity - I would suggest that each of us need the support of a church (and there are many different denominations and individual churches out there, so I don't think it is fair to condemn them all) or a network of people to help you along in your spiritual life.

So to answer your question directly. Can you believe in God but not be a Christian? Yes, but I'm not sure what use Christian opinion would be in this case. You could be a Jew, a Muslim or develop you own brand of spirituality. You can believe whatever you want. But that doesn't necessarily make it true.

If, however, you are looking specifically at the tenets of Christianity as foundational truths for your belief, yet you don't wish to become involved in the church, then I would say that you are already a Christian, but one that is badly lacking support.

getz

Sod'o swords wrote: »

As per the title, can you?

I Don't expect the idea of God to be copyrighted, but is it frown upon by the Church?

Can you believe/worship heaven/God without going through the medium of a organized religion and still reap the promised benefits that worshiping God gives?

I disagree whole heartily with organized religions, but if i want to worship God on my own as such, without being classed as a "Christian" can it be done?

It's not that you would have "Christan" believes, just Godly believes.

Please don't take this as my attempt to flame, i'm not doing this to just have an argument.

i have christian belief ,but not as the catholic of most protestant churches practice-if one believes christs teachings it dosent match up to what the main churches teach-in fact they are completely different .

antiskeptic

Sod'o swords wrote: »

As per the title, can you?

It all depends on what you mean by Christian. Assuming you mean adherent (whether strongly/weakly) of one of the commonly recognised Christian denominations (RC/Presbyterian/Methodist/CoI/Evangelical/Etc) then the answer is "Yes, of course!". You don't have to be an adherent of any of the above to be a believer; Abraham, the biblical example used by which a believer is declared by God to be a believer wasn't an adherent of any of those Christian denominations. Indeed, Christ wasn't even born at that stage

Not that that is all that important. Plenty of people believe in God (in the sense of believing that He exists) but are, for all that, Hell bound.

Says the Bible in any case.

Can you believe/worship heaven/God without going through the medium of a organized religion and still reap the promised benefits that worshiping God gives?

Are you talking of the biblical God? In which case (probably) certainly. I say probably because I'm not sure what you mean by "worshipping heaven".

I disagree whole heartily with organized religions, but if i want to worship God on my own as such, without being classed as a "Christian" can it be done?

According to a good number of the organized religions you disagree with, a Christian is a person who has been "put into" Christ by God. It doesn't matter whether or not the person identifies with this or that denomination (say many of those same denominations). It doesn't particularily matter that a person despises all that these organized religions stand for. Technically speaking, all that matters is that the person has been put into "put into Christ" by God

It's not that you would have "Christan" believes, just Godly believes.

There are many kinds of gods. The Christian God (the one of Jesus Christ) is but one possible god. If you believe in a non-Christian god then you might well have godly beliefs - but you wouldn't have Godly beliefs.

The question is: which G/god do you believe in? God or god?

wolfsbane

Sod'o swords wrote: »

As per the title, can you?

I Don't expect the idea of God to be copyrighted, but is it frown upon by the Church?

Can you believe/worship heaven/God without going through the medium of a organized religion and still reap the promised benefits that worshiping God gives?

I disagree whole heartily with organized religions, but if i want to worship God on my own as such, without being classed as a "Christian" can it be done?

It's not that you would have "Christan" believes, just Godly believes.

Please don't take this as my attempt to flame, i'm not doing this to just have an argument.

If you mean believe in to be trust and obey, and mean God to be the God of the Bible, then NO. If one trust and obeys the God of the Bible one is a Christian.

One can become a Christian without attending any church, but if one is a Christian one will want to obey God in all things. One of the things is His command to gather with fellow-believers in a local assembly/church. We are to play our individual parts as members of his body, supporting one another:
1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[c] one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body,” is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? 18 But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. 19 And if they were all one member, where would the body be?
20 But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. 23 And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, 24 but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, 25 that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

Not that all churches are worthy of joining. Many have long ago departed from the faith and are rejected by God. Others have serious faults and are in danger of rejection.

No church is perfect, however, yet we are commanded to join those that are trying to follow the Lord in all things.

Zombrex

Sod'o swords wrote: »

As per the title, can you?

Jews and Muslims seem to think so.

The thing that makes Christians stand out is the place Jesus has in their religion. If you believe in the Abrahamic god (the one described in the Old Testament) but don't believe in the New Testament descriptions of of Jesus as God, then that would be you believing in God but not being a Christian.

Splendour

Sod'o swords wrote: »

As per the title, can you?

I Don't expect the idea of God to be copyrighted, but is it frown upon by the Church?

Can you believe/worship heaven/God without going through the medium of a organized religion and still reap the promised benefits that worshiping God gives?

I disagree whole heartily with organized religions, but if i want to worship God on my own as such, without being classed as a "Christian" can it be done?

It's not that you would have "Christan" believes, just Godly believes.

Please don't take this as my attempt to flame, i'm not doing this to just have an argument.

As Wicknight has rightly pointed out, Jews and Muslims believe in God but are not Christian. However there were plenty of people in the old testament who never heard of Jesus but who were saved (ie: Christian) because of the promises of God.

And dare I say it but Satan believes in God but he ain't no Christian...

Believing in God and believing 'on' God are two separate issues.

Húrin

Sod'o swords wrote: »

As per the title, can you?

I Don't expect the idea of God to be copyrighted, but is it frown upon by the Church?

Yes, it's called other religions.

ynotdu

To believe in God but think there may not be a way into Heaven without being a Christian(apart from other religions)would surely damn anybody born before Christ to no hope of what is called eternal life in Paradise.

I dont think a merciful God would allow people born BC not to have the chance christianity offers to believers.

I guess that since that way off time bc their was good and evil in various forms amongst our ancestors and they like us(assuming there is a God)will be judged on the basis of how they lived their lives and how they treated others,specific to their time.

All recorded history shows that many glorified something,be it on Earth or in the sky.

as a for instance, Sun worshippers were indirectly glorifying God as He was its creator,they did not know about christ or God,they just recognised that there must be something all powerful and in their own way prayed to it.

PDN

ynotdu wrote: »

To believe in God but think there may not be a way into Heaven without being a Christian(apart from other religions)would surely damn anybody born before Christ to no hope of what is called eternal life in Paradise.

No it wouldn't. Believing Jews, for instance, like Abraham etc. were saved by their faith in the promises of God. Most Christians also trust the judgment of those who never heard of the Gospel to God's hands. We do not presume to know how He judges such people.

BTW, historically Christianity does not teach eternal life in Paradise, but that would take us into a whole new discussion.

Fanny Cradock

PDN wrote: »

BTW, historically Christianity does not teach eternal life in Paradise, but that would take us into a whole new discussion.

Oh yes! I would be delighted to have this discussion one day.

wolfsbane

ynotdu wrote: »

To believe in God but think there may not be a way into Heaven without being a Christian(apart from other religions)would surely damn anybody born before Christ to no hope of what is called eternal life in Paradise.

I dont think a merciful God would allow people born BC not to have the chance christianity offers to believers.

I guess that since that way off time bc their was good and evil in various forms amongst our ancestors and they like us(assuming there is a God)will be judged on the basis of how they lived their lives and how they treated others,specific to their time.

All recorded history shows that many glorified something,be it on Earth or in the sky.

as a for instance, Sun worshippers were indirectly glorifying God as He was its creator,they did not know about christ or God,they just recognised that there must be something all powerful and in their own way prayed to it.

From Adam to Christ, God had His witness in the earth. Creation itself is a witness to the Creator and makes men guilty for not seeking Him. But God also revealed Himself to individuals like Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - then to the nation of Israel. God told them what should believe and practice and promised them salvation by the One He would send to die for them. All who believed God were saved.

As to those who never hear the gospel - before or after Christ - they had enough witness in their conscience and creation to know they ought to seek after God, to find Him and be saved. But they chose not to:
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

At all times, anyone who earnestly sought after God found Him. He sends the gospel to such seekers.

He never saves anyone on the basis of their good works.

Underbadger

short answer...

you cannot believe in the one true god without being a Christian

all other religions or belief systems (including atheism which takes faith, alot of faith) are and were demonic in their inception and infernal in their consequences.

AtomicHorror

Underbadger wrote: »

(including atheism which takes faith, alot of faith)

Oh look, it's canard # 1. Yes indeed it takes the greatest amount of faith to have no faith at all. That makes sense.

Having ideas about faith =/= having faith.

Underbadger wrote: »

all other religions or belief systems are and were demonic in their inception and infernal in their consequences.

Save your totally meaningless veiled threats (oh, I mean warnings) please.

Seaneh

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Save your totally meaningless veiled threats (oh, I mean warnings) please.

I don't think he is being "veiled" in anyway.

He is saying a simple Christian fact, we (christians) believe that there is no way to redemption except through Christ.

This is a forum for Christian members of Boards.ie (not, like most A&A regulars seem to believe, a forum for people to attck and demand that we defend Christianity).

As PDN said before, we don't assume to know how God shall deal with people who have never heard the story of christ but we do believe that those who have heard the truth and choose not to accept it won't achive redemption, and weather that simply means death and nothing beyond or eternity in the depths of hell (no we dont believe hell is the middle of the earth so dont troll) we cannot say but either way we (Christians) have the right to express our belifes on OUR space on boards.ie and I think you'll find an Admin approved charter to back that up stickied on the top of the thread list.

seanybiker

i was brought up as a christian but i dont believe in god. Im not flaming either.
I beleive in my grandfather. It might sound mad to ye but I know 100% that my grandfather was on earth , if ya know what I mean. I dont pray to me grandfather, i just have conversations with him. No I am not mad and I dont hear him answering me but I know what he would say to me when I need him. It might sound mad but that keeps me happy.

Underbadger

seanybiker wrote: »

i was brought up as a christian but i dont believe in god. Im not flaming either.
I beleive in my grandfather. It might sound mad to ye but I know 100% that my grandfather was on earth , if ya know what I mean. I dont pray to me grandfather, i just have conversations with him. No I am not mad and I dont hear him answering me but I know what he would say to me when I need him. It might sound mad but that keeps me happy.

Next time you feel you may have a "conversation" ( although you claim you don't hear direct answers...so much the better) with this demon, challenge him whom he serves in the name of Jesus.

seanybiker

Underbadger wrote: »

Next time you feel you may have a "conversation" ( although you claim you don't hear direct answers...so much the better) with this demon, challenge him whom he serves in the name of Jesus.

Im not trying to be funny. My grandfather was an out and out alcoholic and a very hard person to get on with. Truth be told he was a dickhead but I know he lived. It might sound wrong to you but it keeps me happy.

Zombrex

Seaneh wrote: »

He is saying a simple Christian fact, we (christians) believe that there is no way to redemption except through Christ.

No he isn't. He is saying that the one true god is the Christian god and what Jews and Muslims worship is a demon or demonic

As PDN himself points out that is not standard Christian belief. The Jews who worship God were (and still are) worshipping the same god as Christians.

One can argue that they were worshipping him wrongly, doing thing that actually displease him, but it makes little sense to say they are not worshipping the same god as Christians.

ynotdu

This is not meant as sarcasm.

Is it just me or do others detect hostility on postings here?

surely this is going against the teachings of Christ(as to how we should treat each other)?

Seaneh

Wicknight wrote: »

No he isn't. He is saying that the one true god is the Christian god and what Jews and Muslims worship is a demon or demonic

As PDN himself points out that is not standard Christian belief. The Jews who worship God were (and still are) worshipping the same god as Christians.

One can argue that they were worshipping him wrongly, doing thing that actually displease him, but it makes little sense to say they are not worshipping the same god as Christians.

No he is saying that Jews aren't serving God, I don't think he is stupid enough to not know that the God on the OT is the same God as the NT he is pointing out that we (christians) believe that ANYBODY who rejects Christ (as post comming Jews do) will not gain salvation, this also applies to Muslims who base their belife on biblical teachings but openly reject that Jesus was Christ, Was Muhammad demon lead? I don't know but it's certainly open for theorising and not out the realms of biblical possibility because as a christian I personally can't say that Islam is a religion based on My God because part of My God is Christ and aslong as they reject him they are not following the same Gods teachings but rather some perverted version of My God.

We don't say that jews are praising God wrongly, that would be stupid, we say that they reject Christ so, as far as we know from Christs teaching, they will not be saved, this obviously does not apply to pre-Christ jews as they cannot accpet salvation from a messiah who came after their death, this is why christians believe that Christs sacrafice brought a new covenent with God for his peope and in this new covenent "No one comes to the Father except through me" John 14.6 clearly states that.

Seaneh

ynotdu wrote: »

This is not meant as sarcasm.

Is it just me or do others detect hostility on postings here?

surely this is going against the teachings of Christ(as to how we should treat each other)?

It just annoys me that a Forum that was started after a request me and a hand full of other Christans made 4-5 years ago as a social space where we could share testimony and discuss personal experiences and share event notices and generally be a place for the Christian members of boards to fellowship has been turned into a debate platform for trolls to come from the A&A forum and snipe at everything and anything we say by completely twisting the context of what was said.

This forum wasn't made so that christians would have to defend their faith but rather for Christians to share their walk with eachother!

Mickeroo

Seaneh wrote: »

I don't think he is being "veiled" in anyway.

He is saying a simple Christian fact, we (christians) believe that there is no way to redemption except through Christ.

This is a forum for Christian members of Boards.ie (not, like most A&A regulars seem to believe, a forum for people to attck and demand that we defend Christianity).

As PDN said before, we don't assume to know how God shall deal with people who have never heard the story of christ but we do believe that those who have heard the truth and choose not to accept it won't achive redemption, and weather that simply means death and nothing beyond or eternity in the depths of hell (no we dont believe hell is the middle of the earth so dont troll) we cannot say but either way we (Christians) have the right to express our belifes on OUR space on boards.ie and I think you'll find an Admin approved charter to back that up stickied on the top of the thread list.

The charter says people are allowed to challenge these beliefs. It also says crazy fundamentalist bigotry will not be tolerated, some people(christians included) would regard Underbadger's post in the "being a christian and being gay" thread as such.

Seaneh

I don't see how it could be.

All he has said, when paraphrased is the same thing as most other christains have said in the same thread, No you cannot willingly and brazenly partake in homosexual inetrcourse and still call yourself a christian as this is akin to willingly and brazeningly partaking in any type of extra marital intercourse which is expressly thought by christ to be wrong and sinful.

He did not say that being Gay was evil or sinful, he said, as has every other christian, when you act on homosexuality you are being sinful.

AtomicHorror

Seaneh wrote: »

I don't think he is being "veiled" in anyway.

He is saying a simple Christian fact, we (christians) believe that there is no way to redemption except through Christ.

This is a forum for Christian members of Boards.ie (not, like most A&A regulars seem to believe, a forum for people to attck and demand that we defend Christianity).

As PDN said before, we don't assume to know how God shall deal with people who have never heard the story of christ but we do believe that those who have heard the truth and choose not to accept it won't achive redemption, and weather that simply means death and nothing beyond or eternity in the depths of hell (no we dont believe hell is the middle of the earth so dont troll) we cannot say but either way we (Christians) have the right to express our belifes on OUR space on boards.ie and I think you'll find an Admin approved charter to back that up stickied on the top of the thread list.

Yes, I see it. Check out points 4 and 7 which I think are relevant here. I don't see PDN or FC calling other religions "demonic", and I'd be surprised if that's the position they hold. Nor do I see them nor warning darkly of eternal torment, though that may be their belief. You certainly have the right to express these opinions, as I also have the right to call BS on those opinions. If you think I'm here to troll, you've got me all wrong.

ynotdu

I am going to unsubscribe from this thread in respect of the fact that it was set up for Christians to to discuss Christianity.

A lot I have read is IMO people setting themselves as Judgers of others.

the bible being cherry picked to reinforce bigotry, contempt ,and for one poster to outclevor another is simply an abuse of the bible.

there is a quote I have heard,cannot remember the source.it goes:

"I like your Christ,but wheres your Christians"?