Energy savings, the ESB and Irish language

jimmmy

I am not sure if this is the correct forum or not. Basically, the postman has dropped a 16 page full colour book from the ESB through the letterbox , on energy saving/ energy efficient lighting. The thing is exactly half the book is in Irish. That makes approx 12 million of pages of Irish language the ESB is printing and distributing around the country....if the ESB wants us to save energy / preserve natural resources ( ink + paper, + oil used in distribution ) perhaps they should look closer to home ? Why is half the book duplicated ? How much money is wasted by the government / semi-states doubling the amount of printed matter ?

mike65

From IT

Ninety-three per cent of those taking part in a Statewide survey wish to have Irish revived or preserved, according to a report launched yesterday by Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs Éamon Ó Cuív.

So there we are...read booklets on the importance of gas fire mantainence 'as gaeilge' and it'll be saved.

snubbleste

I agree OP, the booklet should not be duplicated and should be half as light and be entirely as gaeilge.

simu

More to the point - why do they have to keep sending little booklets out month after month? They very rarely contain new information. You can get far more info on the internet anyways and for those who don't use it, newspapers have done articles on the same topic about a million times. Govt agencies seem to spend an awful lot of effort on producing booklets full of info everyone either already knows or people don't care to know.

jimmmy

simu wrote: »

Govt agencies seem to spend an awful lot of effort on producing booklets full of info everyone either already knows or people don't care to know.

and how many hundreds of millions have been wasted on Irish language printing which nobody reads ? How many trees felled / tons of ink used ? How many postmens back broken ?

Fratton Fred

snubbleste wrote: »

I agree OP, the booklet should not be duplicated and should be half as light and be entirely as gaeilge.

lets face it, 99% of people are going to throw it straight into the bin without reading it, so it could be printed in Latin for what it's worth.

simu

jimmmy wrote: »

and how many hundreds of millions have been wasted on Irish language printing which nobody reads ? How many trees felled / tons of ink used ? How many postmens back broken ?

Poor suffering postmen being killed by the Irish language.

These translations are being done more to ease the guilt of the majority of Irish people who love the idea of the language but don't actually want to learn or speak it rather than for the benefit of people who actually speak Irish btw.

Múinteoir

jimmmy wrote: »

and how many hundreds of millions have been wasted on Irish language printing which nobody reads ?

I can only imagine the rock-solid impirical evidence you use to back this up. Have you some genuine data/reports to back that up, or is it just the anecdotal evidence of so many Irish-language belittlers:

I don't read it = nobody else reads it

Self-absorbed much?

jimmmy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

lets face it, 99% of people are going to throw it straight into the bin without reading it, so it could be printed in Latin for what it's worth.

I agree there ...and then translating it in to the Irish language.... point 01 of 1% ? lol lol lol Shure who ever saw anyone even buying an Irish language newspaper or magazine ....I have over the decades been in every county in Ireland and never heard any Irish been spoken never mind saw any Irish language newspapers or magazines. That shows the level of demand for it. Ah but we have plenty of money in this country so its ok to spend 1612 million euro trying to promote / translate / print everything in to Irish.

silverharp

Múinteoir wrote: »

I can only imagine the rock-solid impirical evidence you use to back this up. Have you some genuine data/reports to back that up, or is it just the anecdotal evidence of so many Irish-language belittlers:

I don't read it = nobody else reads it

Self-absorbed much?

http://www.cso.ie/census/documents/Final%20Principal%20Demographic%20Results%202006.pdf

go to page 80 , roughly 120K people over the age of 20 claim to use Irish on at least a weekly basis. so guessing that half the people read any particular document that comes in the door and of them say half again think this is an opportunity to read the irish version then I would say 30,000 might be your target audience in reality I would say lower again

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

BroomBurner

If a government booklet came through the door completely in English, there would be a moaning thread about the loss of the Irish language. :rolleyes:

cavedave

Múinteoir

I can only imagine the rock-solid impirical evidence you use to back this up. Have you some genuine data/reports to back that up, or is it just the anecdotal evidence of so many Irish-language belittlers:

I don't read it = nobody else reads it

Self-absorbed much?

Ok lets try find some evidence. Does anyone have figures for number of irish language books versus English language books sold in ireland per year? preferably adult books.

If you take one harry Harry Potter book

The bookseller said the 25,000-print run commissioned by UK publisher Bloomsbury was remarkable for an Irish-language copy.

This article seems to imply that harry potter was about 12.5% of Irish book sales. So roughly 200,000 Irish language books are bought a year?

Here is a good article

So of our 2000-10,000 (conservative) titles released in ireland per year, fewer than 200 are in Irish. Surely this says something?

The second thing is that nearly 40% are childrens books. Given that the king of Childrens books, the UK, boasts no more than 10%, the figure for Irish is extraordinary

silverharp

cavedave wrote: »

Ok lets try find some evidence. Does anyone have figures for number of irish language books versus English language books sold in ireland per year? preferably adult books.

If you take one harry Harry Potter book

This article seems to imply that harry potter was about 12.5% of Irish book sales. So roughly 200,000 Irish language books are bought a year?

Here is a good article

You would have to figure out how many adults compared to kids buy Irish books? and then how many Irish books does the averge Irish speaker buy to get an idea of the active numbers not in education?

cavedave

ok go with the figures I have given (which are open to correction) 200000 books. 40% are for children so 120000 are read by Adults. According to the census this would be about one book per year per person who regularly speak it. 4 books a year seems reasonable for an actual person who really uses the language. So i estimate figure of 30,000 are actually reading.

That would be about 1 in a 100 adults are potential audience.

The tv ratings give tg4 about 5% here. Considering the amount of output that is actually in Irish this puts regular users in the <2% figure I would reckon.

weiss

Are those of you who want to abolish the Irish language ashamed of your identity?

Do you identify more with English or US culture?

I don't see any point in publishing all these leaflets in Irish either, atleast not for everyone.

But there are people in this country that still use Irish everyday.

Can you try appreciate this? try to respect those that want to keep the language alive?

cavedave

weiss Are those of you who want to abolish the Irish language ashamed of your identity?

I cannot speak for those people as I do not share that view

Do you identify more with English or US culture?

Tough question. I do like the Brehon law gaelic system. It is not generally palatable though. For example murder is punishable by a fine to the family of the victim.

But there are people in this country that still use Irish everyday.

There are about 2% as far as I have figured

Can you try appreciate this? try to respect those that want to keep the language alive?

Yes I can for alterity reasons. Ok I will and do. By respect do you mean give money to people who speak Irish and if so why?

weiss

How do you want me to respond to that gibberish cavedave?

jank

Oh yes!! Another "Lets bash the Irish Language thread!"

No other country in the world have this inferiority complex about their own language. A better debate is to ask why do we Irish people have such an inferiority complex about their own culture. Seriously, why do we do it?

I agree that resources in this case aren't best used and would welcome any debate in the view that would help out the Irish Language. However, Jimmy I don't think you care too much about ESB's use of resources in this instance and the you have an other motive. I didn't see you complain much when ESB awarded themselves a pay rise a few months back;)

By the way does anyone find it ironic that someone (The OP) who doesn't call himself Irish, complains about the waste of "Irish tax payers" resources on the Irish language?:pac:

jimmmy

jank wrote: »

Oh yes!! Another "Lets bash the Irish Language thread!"

Its not, its about the waste of hundreds of millions of euros of money, plus the waste of natural resources.

jank wrote: »

No other country in the world have this inferiority complex about their own language.

Its not an "inferiority complex" when so much is spent on a language so few use.

jank wrote: »

However, Jimmy I don't think you care too much about ESB's use of resources in this instance and the you have an other motive. I didn't see you complain much when ESB awarded themselves a pay rise a few months back;)

I did actually, the ESB pay themselves an average of over 70k per year per worker....thats almost as much as many Prime Minister around the world pay themselves ( eg the p.m. of New Zealand ). We have the second most expensive electricity in Europe and no wonder when the ESB waste our money.

jank wrote: »

By the way does anyone find it ironic that someone (The OP) who doesn't call himself Irish,

I never said that ....where did I not call myself Irish ?

jank wrote: »

complains about the waste of "Irish tax payers" resources on the Irish language?:pac:

Whats Ironic about it, when Irish was drummed in to me at school , and when I have paid tax all my life ?

Sleipnir

BroomBurner wrote: »

If a government booklet came through the door completely in English, there would be a moaning thread about the loss of the Irish language. :rolleyes:

I think you'd probably find that most people wouldn't notice that the Irish version wasn't there.

jimmmy

cavedave wrote: »

Ok lets try find some evidence. Does anyone have figures for number of irish language books versus English language books sold in ireland per year? preferably adult books.
If you take one harry Harry Potter book
This article seems to imply that harry potter was about 12.5% of Irish book sales. So roughly 200,000 Irish language books are bought a year?

Flawed logic. I know of one Irish teacher who made all her class buy the Harry Potter book in Irish. How many Irish language books or newspapers or magazines are voluntarily bought each year ? I asked a few bookshops, newsagents etc and they said negligible.

cavedave

jimmmy your right. If you can come up with a better figure that would be great. Even with the figure I've given your still only talking about 1-2% of the adult population being regular readers of Irish.

Daithinski

jimmmy wrote: »

I am not sure if this is the correct forum or not. Basically, the postman has dropped a 16 page full colour book from the ESB through the letterbox , on energy saving/ energy efficient lighting. The thing is exactly half the book is in Irish. That makes approx 12 million of pages of Irish language the ESB is printing and distributing around the country....if the ESB wants us to save energy / preserve natural resources ( ink + paper, + oil used in distribution ) perhaps they should look closer to home ? Why is half the book duplicated ? How much money is wasted by the government / semi-states doubling the amount of printed matter ?

I agree that this is a waste.

They should only print the Irish section.:P

Daithinski

Sleipnir wrote: »

I think you'd probably find that most people wouldn't notice that the Irish version wasn't there.

Probably most people would bin the brochure without reading the english or irish verison. I know I would.

If the information really has to be out out there, would it not make more sense to put info in a newspaper advert or something??

There is no need for a Fancy Dan glossy brochure.

BTW This is turning into a bit of an "Irish is bleedin' stewpid" post.

Theres much bigger things to be getting all hot under the collar about at the moment....

jank

jimmmy wrote: »

Its not, its about the waste of hundreds of millions of euros of money, plus the waste of natural resources.

Are you talking about the ESB now or just the Irish Language overall? I doubt the publication of some leaflets cost us hundreds of millions of euros. But dont let that get in the way of your agenda.

jimmmy wrote: »

Its not an "inferiority complex" when so much is spent on a language so few use.

Oh but yes, it is and you are just proving it by every line you type.

jimmmy wrote: »

I did actually, the ESB pay themselves an average of over 70k per year per worker....thats almost as much as many Prime Minister around the world pay themselves ( eg the p.m. of New Zealand ). We have the second most expensive electricity in Europe and no wonder when the ESB waste our money.

So why raise a seperate topic about this when much more radical overhaul is needed of semi-state organisations. I agree that they pay themselves too much but I think you are confused in which battle to fight which leads me to conclude that your battle is with the Irish Language.

jimmmy wrote: »

I never said that ....where did I not call myself Irish ?

I asked you a few times and I never heard an answer which led me to conclude that you didnt think of yourself Irish. So are you?

jimmmy wrote: »

Whats Ironic about it, when Irish was drummed in to me at school , and when I have paid tax all my life ?

Yet I dont think you think of yourself as Irish. Many a subject was drummed into me at school yet I dont give out about it as if my civil rights were violated.

jank

Daithinski wrote: »

Probably most people would bin the brochure without reading the english or irish verison. I know I would.

If the information really has to be out out there, would it not make more sense to put info in a newspaper advert or something??

There is no need for a Fancy Dan glossy brochure.

BTW This is turning into a bit of an "Irish is bleedin' stewpid" post.

Theres much bigger things to be getting all hot under the collar about at the moment....

I agree. Much more important issues to be discussing. IMO the thing should be online, in both languages. This thread is a waste of time.

jimmmy

jank wrote: »

I asked you a few times and I never heard an answer which led me to conclude that you didnt think of yourself Irish. So are you?

You never asked me before what nationality I am, and its none of your business. Its not relevant. What difference to you is it if I have a "Pas" ( passport ) or not ?

The point is, duplicating everything is costing the government - you and I as taxpayers - hundreds of millions in translating everything in to Irish, in additional printing and signage costs, and trying to "promote" the language. Given the state of our public finances - and my postmans back !! - perhaps a bit of common sense could prevail when in comes to the govt and semi-states delivering so much junk mail in Irish.

asdasd

The anti-Irish sleveeness of the OP's point is cringeworthy, but I tend to agree that

1) There should be an Irish brochure on demand, on request ( unless that costs more).
2) It should be on t'interweb. Most people have access. Printed version on request for a few more years, if that.

asdasd

You never asked me before what nationality I am, and its none of your business. Its not relevant. What difference to you is it if I have a "Pas" ( passport ) or not ?

Sure it's relevent. If you are native English, for instance, and were opposed to the Irish language it would be external bigotry rather than a discussion we are having amongst ourselves.

markpb

asdasd wrote: »

1) There should be an Irish crochure on demand, on request ( unless that costs more).

It would be trivial for ESB (and other government agencies) to ask people which language they'd like to use for communication and then stick to that. Sending both languages to everyone is a waste of money. If you're happy using Irish, ESB et al should send your bill, your letters and your useless leaflets about turning off lights in Irish.

Rebelheart

jimmmy wrote: »

I am not sure if this is the correct forum or not. Basically, the postman has dropped a 16 page full colour book from the ESB through the letterbox , on energy saving/ energy efficient lighting. The thing is exactly half the book is in Irish. That makes approx 12 million of pages of Irish language the ESB is printing and distributing around the country....if the ESB wants us to save energy / preserve natural resources ( ink + paper, + oil used in distribution ) perhaps they should look closer to home ? Why is half the book duplicated ? How much money is wasted by the government / semi-states doubling the amount of printed matter ?

Are you that David Herman guy from The Irish Times letters page?

Bigoted nonsense to assert your rights at the expense of my rights. Backward with aspirations to be dangerous. I speak Irish fluently. My children, should I be blessed enough to have some, will be brought up speaking Irish as their first language. My friends range from UCD to Corca Dhuibhne to Maínis and my very very large family here in Dublin all love and support the Irish language. We all vote, and we all discuss these things. We are proud to be Irish and have, collectively, no intention of surrendering real and genuine expressions of Irishness such as the Irish language just to placate English speaking monoglots who feel uncomfortable with our presence and seek to re define Irishness as a result of their own inadequacies (intellectual and otherwise).

People like you want to force people like me into submission to your monoglot anglophone culture, just as English people like you have done to Irish people for many centuries. It is racism. It is bigotry. It is prejudice. And, at very very best, it is arrogance at its most benighted and obscurantist level. Unfortunately for you, however, in 2009 Irish speakers are not some brow-beaten members of the peasantry in Conamara or Kerry. I suspect that every single one of us would be substantially more educated that you and your fellow troglodytes.

Your rights have for far too long been secured by shoving your English language down my throat, refusing to allow me use Irish in my business with this state, and attempting to deride me because I speak Irish. Finally, the Irish state is acknowledging that this is morally, ethically and political unjust and that we, too, have rights. People like you are the past. Thanks be to Jesus. I await 'incitement to hatred' legislation for people like you who threaten the linguistic and cultural rights of me, my friends and my family in Ireland.

Rebelheart

jimmmy wrote: »

I am not sure if this is the correct forum or not. Basically, the postman has dropped a 16 page full colour book from the ESB through the letterbox , on energy saving/ energy efficient lighting. The thing is exactly half the book is in Irish. That makes approx 12 million of pages of Irish language the ESB is printing and distributing around the country....if the ESB wants us to save energy / preserve natural resources ( ink + paper, + oil used in distribution ) perhaps they should look closer to home ? Why is half the book duplicated ? How much money is wasted by the government / semi-states doubling the amount of printed matter ?

Are you that David Herman guy from The Irish Times letters page?

Bigoted nonsense to assert your rights at the expense of my rights. Backward with aspirations to be dangerous. I speak Irish fluently. My children, should I be blessed enough to have some, will be brought up speaking Irish as their first language. My friends range from UCD to Corca Dhuibhne to Maínis and my very very large family here in Dublin all love and support the Irish language. We all vote, and we all discuss these things. We are proud to be Irish and have, collectively, no intention of surrendering real and genuine expressions of Irishness such as the Irish language just to placate English speaking monoglots who feel uncomfortable with our presence and seek to re define Irishness as a result of their own inadequacies (intellectual and otherwise).

People like you want to force people like me into submission to your monoglot anglophone culture, just as English people like you have done to Irish people for many centuries. It is racism. It is bigotry. It is prejudice. And, at very very best, it is arrogance at its most benighted and obscurantist level. Unfortunately for you, however, in 2009 Irish speakers are not some brow-beaten members of the peasantry in Conamara or Kerry. I suspect that every single one of us would be substantially more educated that you and your fellow troglodytes.

Your rights have for far too long been secured by shoving your English language down my throat, refusing to allow me use Irish in my business with this state, and attempting to deride me because I speak Irish. Finally, the Irish state is acknowledging that this is morally, ethically and political unjust and that we, too, have rights. People like you are the past. Thanks be to Jesus. I await 'incitement to hatred' legislation for people like you who threaten the linguistic and cultural rights of me, my friends and my family in Ireland.

Soldie

Rebelheart wrote: »

We are proud to be Irish and have, collectively, no intention of surrendering real and genuine expressions of Irishness such as the Irish language just to placate English speaking monoglots who feel uncomfortable with our presence and seek to re define Irishness as a result of their own inadequacies (intellectual and otherwise).

Your implication seems to be that 'Irishness' is entirely static, as though it was set in stone upon its inception, without the possibility of changing or evolving. In that case, I'm sure those 'Early Modern Irish' speakers must be fuming at your lot's attempt at re-defining 'Irishness', much in the same way that 'Middle Irish' speakers are annoyed at 'Early Modern Irish' speakers, etc.

There is a good deal of hypocrisy in your claim that English-speaking 'troglodytes' are attempting to 're-define Irishness'. Is it not you that is attempting to 're-define Irishness' by making the absurd claim that Irish-speaking Irish people are more 'real and genuine', in spite of the fact that such people are a fraction of the populace? I resent your implication and frankly, whether you like it or not, the English language is as much a part of being as Irish as the Irish language is. This evidenced by the overwhelming majority of Irish people speaking the language on an almost exlusive basis, in comparison to a miniscule amount of people speaking Irish.

Rebelheart

Soldie wrote: »

Your implication seems to be that 'Irishness' is entirely static, as though it was set in stone upon its inception, without the possibility of changing or evolving. In that case, I'm sure those 'Early Modern Irish' speakers must be fuming at your lot's attempt at re-defining 'Irishness', much in the same way that 'Middle Irish' speakers are annoyed at 'Early Modern Irish' speakers, etc.

There is a good deal of hypocrisy in your claim that English-speaking 'troglodytes' are attempting to 're-define Irishness'. Is it not you that is attempting to 're-define Irishness' by making the absurd claim that Irish-speaking Irish people are more 'real and genuine', in spite of the fact that such people are a fraction of the populace? I resent your implication and frankly, whether you like it or not, the English language is as much a part of being as Irish as the Irish language is. This evidenced by the overwhelming majority of Irish people speaking the language on an almost exlusive basis, in comparison to a miniscule amount of people speaking Irish.

Self-serving nonsense designed to bolster your own particularly lazy view of "Irishness" and assert a greater right for anglophones (like yourself) in this country. It is not Irish speakers who are shoving their language down your throat, but at every turn it is English speakers like you who insist that,for example, bills and other information be sent out in the English language and then proceed to scream about the cost when they are sent out in Irish as well as English. Not a care when Irish speakers have to read all this information in English. Oh no, only the real Irish like yourself deserve to have the honour of being communicated to by the ESB in your favoured language.

As I said, bigotry and ignorance.

' resent your implication and frankly, whether you like it or not, the English language is as much a part of being as Irish as the Irish language is.'

How very convenient for your current position.

Grudaire

No offence meant by this jimmmy, but you are far from a Republican (Judging by any other encounters that I've had with you (over 1916 mainly)), and there is nothing wrong with that (I'm all for freedom of opinions etc etc), however it would strike me as if you may have a slight bias when it comes to the topic, I hope this is not the case

markpb wrote: »

It would be trivial for ESB (and other government agencies) to ask people which language they'd like to use for communication and then stick to that. Sending both languages to everyone is a waste of money. If you're happy using Irish, ESB et al should send your bill, your letters and your useless leaflets about turning off lights in Irish.

+1, however I would advocate a choice for both (many households are multi-lingual, and to be fair for a house which has more than one person!)


I do feel however that there is too much pressure on to speak English - and whenever I speak Irish I can expect anything!

djpbarry

Rebelheart wrote: »

...it is English speakers like you who insist that,for example, bills and other information be sent out in the English language...

Well, I don't think that's an unreasonable position, considering that English is the first language of the overwhelming majority of the population of this country.

Rebelheart wrote: »

...and then proceed to scream about the cost when they are sent out in Irish as well as English.

We both know that the vast majority of people in this country cannot read Irish as well as they can English, so what is the point of spending time and resources sending them Irish copies of documents?

Rebelheart wrote: »

Not a care when Irish speakers have to read all this information in English.

How many Irish-speakers in this country are unable to read English to the same level as they can Irish? Very few I'm guessing.

Rebelheart wrote: »

Oh no, only the real Irish like yourself deserve to have the honour of being communicated to by the ESB in your favoured language.

As I said, bigotry and ignorance.

No, it's just plain common sense to question why duplicate documents are being sent to people in a language that they are incapable of reading to a high standard.

silverharp

Rebelheart wrote: »

Self-serving nonsense designed to bolster your own particularly lazy view of "Irishness"

To assert that a view of "irishness" is lazy or otherwise comes across as very arrogant.

jank

jimmmy wrote: »

You never asked me before what nationality I am, and its none of your business. Its not relevant. What difference to you is it if I have a "Pas" ( passport ) or not ?

So I take that as no, you are not Irish. I dont give a rats ass or a damm where you are from. But in my previous post in this thread I talked about the irony of a non native Irish person complaining about the use of Irish language (which you defended for some reason). It like me going over the Belguim and complain that they use flemish. Its just very Ironic or rude even, dont you think?

Like I currently live in NZ, I pay tax but I dont give out to kiwi people I work with that the goverment is wasting money on the Maori language by doing much the same as the Irish government and the Irish language. In fact it would be considered rude and I would be told where to go.

Only a minority speak but many are very proud of it and it is their unique language that makes them different to every other nation on this earth.
Very similar to Irish in fact, the only difference is that we have to $hit on ourselves as a people and nation as the very existence of this thread proves!

jimmmy wrote: »

The point is, duplicating everything is costing the government - you and I as taxpayers - hundreds of millions in translating everything in to Irish, in additional printing and signage costs, and trying to "promote" the language. Given the state of our public finances - and my postmans back !! - perhaps a bit of common sense could prevail when in comes to the govt and semi-states delivering so much junk mail in Irish.

I agree to a point as do many others, but there is much bigger fish to fry then your anti- Irish language agenda you have going on here.

Sure discuss the waste but I dont see you posting in other waste thread like the e-voting machines.

The brochures are a waste full stop english, irish, polish or whatever they should not be sent out at all.

djpbarry

jank wrote: »

Like I currently live in NZ, I pay tax but I dont give out to kiwi people I work with that the goverment is wasting money on the Maori language by doing much the same as the Irish government and the Irish language. In fact it would be considered rude and I would be told where to go.

You are perfectly entitled to question how and where your tax dollars are being spent, regardless of your nationality.

jank

Enititled to a point.

Do you honestly expect that if I gave out to my work mates about "Maori language" waste they would say fair enough. They would give me an ear licking, give myself a name of a "know it all", "a bit of a dick" and basicly lose any friends there. It would be seen as rude.

Now if I was giving out about waste such as MP bonus's or perks then that is a different matter. But giving about Maori language waste would be seen as giving out about their culture and akin to "why should I have to pay for their culture".

Anyway it doesnt happen here as they are proud of their Maori Language something I am afriad doesnt happen in Ireland.

Joey the lips

I think the best solution is to abandon te irish language its fcuk all use anyway. We should all speak english, then again, ban all foreign languages as well... After all we are one of few gob****e nations that dont speak there own language on a daily basis.

But then again I wonder how many jobs are supported by irish speaking publications???. Yeah fcuk them all. I am a miserable barstool who cant see the importance of his own language.

Daithinski

jimmmy wrote: »

I am not sure if this is the correct forum or not. Basically, the postman has dropped a 16 page full colour book from the ESB through the letterbox , on energy saving/ energy efficient lighting. The thing is exactly half the book is in Irish. That makes approx 12 million of pages of Irish language the ESB is printing and distributing around the country....if the ESB wants us to save energy / preserve natural resources ( ink + paper, + oil used in distribution ) perhaps they should look closer to home ? Why is half the book duplicated ? How much money is wasted by the government / semi-states doubling the amount of printed matter ?

Some other areas of waste you may want to consider...

Museums / Art Gallerys

A load of old crap and poncey paintings. We could sell the lot off and raise a bit more cash to give to the banks for their bailout.

Charity

Bunch of scroungers. Cancel all donations and instead spend the savings on TD's unvouched expenses.

Dublin Zoo

Whats the deal with Dublin zoo. Paying for a whole load of animals? They aren't even Irish. Or paying tax. Turn it into a big game park for American tourists. And when the last animal has been shot and stuffed, redevelop the site into a 7 star luxury golf course for the government and their buddies.

djpbarry

jank wrote: »

Do you honestly expect that if I gave out to my work mates about "Maori language" waste they would say fair enough.

It depends on the context. For example, if a utilities company in New Zealand was sending Maori information booklets to every home in the country, I don’t think it would be unreasonable for you to question this practice.

Grudaire

djpbarry wrote: »

It depends on the context. For example, if a utilities company in New Zealand was sending Maori information booklets to every home in the country, I don’t think it would be unreasonable for you to question this practice.

Lets turn this around - Do you think it would be fair to effectively force everyone in Ireland to use English on a daily basis? By this I mean provide no services through Irish, and finish the job the English started in eradicating the language?


By this I am not saying that they're doing it right - but your taxes can pay for making the pointless reports, and leaflets, and mine can pay for the translation:pac:

jimmmy

Rebelheart wrote: »

Are you that David Herman guy from The Irish Times letters page?

Certainly not, not thats its any of your business.

jimmmy

jank wrote: »

So I take that as no, you are not Irish.

Whats makes you think that ? I wrote "You never asked me before what nationality I am, and its none of your business. Its not relevant. What difference to you is it if I have a "Pas" ( passport ) or not ?"

You are certainly not entitled to say I am not Irish, from that.

jank wrote: »

I dont give a rats ass or a damm where you are from.

Why is it of such great concern to you so?

jank wrote: »

But in my previous post in this thread I talked about the irony of a non native Irish person complaining about the use of Irish language (which you defended for some reason). It like me going over the Belguim and complain that they use flemish. Its just very Ironic or rude even, dont you think?
Like I currently live in NZ, I pay tax but I dont give out to kiwi people I work with that the goverment is wasting money on the Maori language by doing much the same as the Irish government and the Irish language. In fact it would be considered rude and I would be told where to go.
Only a minority speak but many are very proud of it and it is their unique language that makes them different to every other nation on this earth.
Very similar to Irish in fact, the only difference is that we have to $hit on ourselves as a people and nation as the very existence of this thread proves!

lol lol. Not everyone who Irish has as big a "gra" for the Irish language or the cupla focail as much as you do, a chairde !

Grudaire

jimmmy wrote: »

lol lol. Not everyone who Irish has as big a "gra" for the Irish language or the cupla focail as much as you do, a chairde !

a chara.... mind you the english in that sentence isn't great either

jimmmy

Thats not the point.

Daithinski

jimmmy wrote: »

Thats not the point.

What is the point then?

You don't like Irish, and jump on the flimsiest reason to bash it?

ie wasting paper

I could be wrong, but I can't imagine that there is people in other colonised countries that hate their own language so much.

It seems to be a peculiarity of the Irish.

Grudaire

jimmmy wrote: »

Thats not the point.

I know grammer etc isn't the point, however given that you haven't dealt with many points that have been raised I see no harm in it, and I'm glad I got your attantion.

Daithinski wrote: »

What is the point then?

You don't like Irish, and jump on the flimsiest reason to bash it?

ie wasting paper

I could be wrong, but I can't imagine that there is people in other colonised countries that hate their own language so much.

It seems to be a peculiarity of the Irish.

+1 to this and your other posts