muntjak problem!

westwicklow

For the past couple of years, I've been shooting vermin (foxes etc) and unwelcome dogs on family and neighbour's farms, including newly planted forestry. Within the past 3 weeks, we've sighted muntjak deer in the area and, given their potential destructive threat on our farm and forestry environments and those of our neighbours, how do I legally go about shooting them? I have used both 12g Browning shotgun and CZ .223 Rem with Sako "gamehead 3.56g soft point 55 grs" with great results to date on vermin control, but I need to know the correct way to go about shooting the muntjak. Any help greatly appreciated please.

chem

Have a look here.

http://www.caireland.org/News/press_releases/Statement_By_Mr._John_Gormley_T.D.,_Minister_for_the_Environment,_Heritage_and_Local_Government./

For a pest in Ireland they are getting the same protection as native deer? So you need a deer licence and so a rifle of 270 or over id imagen.

SHOOT ON SIGHT WOULD BE MY IDEA OF STOPPING THE PROBLEM!!

It wasn't me!

chem wrote: »

Have a look here.

http://www.caireland.org/News/press_releases/Statement_By_Mr._John_Gormley_T.D.,_Minister_for_the_Environment,_Heritage_and_Local_Government./

For a pest in Ireland they are getting the same protection as native deer? So you need a deer licence and so a rifle of 270 or over id imagen.

Currently a deer species with no close season, so you can shoot them all year round, but you do need a deer licence from NPWS, being a deer species. The minimum calibre is .22-250, which is actually very appropriate for them.

Jonty

chem wrote: »

Have a look here.

http://www.caireland.org/News/press_releases/Statement_By_Mr._John_Gormley_T.D.,_Minister_for_the_Environment,_Heritage_and_Local_Government./

For a pest in Ireland they are getting the same protection as native deer? So you need a deer licence and so a rifle of 270 or over id imagen.

SHOOT ON SIGHT WOULD BE MY IDEA OF STOPPING THE PROBLEM!!

.270?? are those munties on steroids?

westwicklow

Thanks for the info... very helpful. Seems there are quite a lot of "munties" seen in the local area. We wouldn't want them to take over now - would we? I can see local landowners, who don't wish to incur any further preventable loss of earnings through crop damage or animal loss through disease, getting to the point of reacting with some force against these unwanted creatures.

jwshooter

on account your over run with them ,contact the npws in trooperstown .

they will send a ranger around to you and advise on how to cure your infestation .

also john griffen on boards, is a ranger in wicklow and has a interest in deer and will know how best to wipe them out.

if not im sure gormley will sent out a platoon from the glen to lend a hand

westwicklow

Maybe not quite "over run".... yet!

BryanL

There was a segment on last fridays mooney's goes wild about the muntjac. The guy from the NPWS, said that when munties reach a level where they are being seen , that the population is very close to being at levels where it is beyond controlling.

The NPWS said they were also of the view that Irish hunters had arranged their importation from england. I thought it was unfortunate that the spokesman for hunters had an english accent! Paul Woods i think it was.
Bryan

The Aussie

BryanL wrote: »

I thought it was unfortunate that the spokesman for hunters had an english accent! Paul Woods i think it was.

Just out of interest, why would that be, started hunting with a few Poms over in OZ, great blokes with a good understanding of the sport, even recomended them to a few farmers i know who have a Roo and Fox problem.


Anthony.

BryanL

If there was a complaint that Irish and French hunters were conspiring to bring an alien species into the country i don't think a french man would be the best spokesperson for us to have ?
Bryan

sixpointfive

So because he speaks with an english accent he cant be Irish? I know a couple of people who speak with english accents but are as irish as they come,maybe grew up across the water or were educated there, he could be living here for decades and still have his accent

foxshooter243

sixpointfive wrote: »

So because he speaks with an english accent he cant be Irish? I know a couple of people who speak with english accents but are as irish as they come,maybe grew up across the water or were educated there, he could be living here for decades and still have his accent

Very true sixpoint five, just because your born in a stable it doesnt make you a horse!:D

thelurcher

People have a perception that hunting with hounds is only carried out on horseback by the landed gentry with their top-hats and west-brit accents - it does the sport no good at all and lets face it - it's a class thing - that's the only reason why they tried to ban it in england.
Wouldn't it be a shame to give non-shooting people the same perception of deer stalking i.e. a bunch of elitist snobs over from 'the mainland' (I s**t you not - a recent article in a popular hunting mag referred to this - as if we're still their little island playground).

I know that in the small uber-PC world of boards.ie there is no evil and problems like racism are in the dark and distant past but in the real world we have journalists and politicians with a serious chip on their shoulder and they're own agenda that know exactly how to manipulate public opinion - so why give them the ammo?


westwicklow - maybe if you didn't shoot all those unwelcome dogs causing havoc in the newly planted forrestry they might be off keeping the muntjak under control

BryanL

Hopefully the connection was lost on the public, just like it was on you guys.;)

I find it beyond belief that anyone in shooting would be dumb enough to import an alien species.
To Have someone with a French accent say, French frogs will not be a problem in Ireland, would not exactly put my mind at ease:rolleyes:
Bryan


ps the, the born in a stable but not a horse , came from the duke of wellington when someone put it to him that he was Irish!

like to hunt

hi west if u need a hand im beside u...

westwicklow

Having observed them for them past few days, they're definately "munties"... and I definately want to eliminate them.... Thanks for all the helpful information.

The Aussie

BryanL wrote: »

Hopefully the connection was lost on the public, just like it was on you guys.;)

To be honest i dont think there was anything to be lost, just did not need to be said thats all...


Anthony.

westwicklow

More "munties" spotted early this morning, slinking around looking decidedly shifty. Thanks to all for the advise.

like to hunt

dose anyone know what happend to the muntjac that were in dublin zoo
a few year back.... did they get lose...

The Aussie

does anyone know if the munties are around the Cork/Kerry mountains, have been told i can go on a few properties once i get the gear together.


Anthony.

jwshooter

i hate to break this to you aussie ,there has only been one confirmed case of a muntjac been shot in the wild in the history of the state .

maybe west wicklow can post a pic of the animals he has been watching this week.

westwicklow

Hi jwshooter, where was that muntjac shot? With any luck, there will be some in West Wicklow soon. Just in the door from shooting tonight but no muntjac spotted. Maybe if the opportunity arises, I'll try get us a photo using my phone. Alas, I prefer to shoot my Browning and the CZ and not a camera!

It wasn't me!

Near Avoca as I recall.

To be honest, I'm not big on them showing up from an environmental point of view. However, I hear they're delicious, so the upcoming rifle can cut its teeth on them if they show up.

ronn

a game keeper shot one in wicklow.has it stuffed he was the 1st to shoot one in ireland.

bunny shooter

jwshooter wrote: »

i hate to break this to you aussie ,there has only been one confirmed case of a muntjac been shot in the wild in the history of the state .

maybe west wicklow can post a pic of the animals he has been watching this week.

That's a very bold statement considering the amount of poaching and legal deer shooting that goes on in this country. So your telling us there could not possibly have been more shot? Or just that they aren't "confirmed"?

Who exactly needs to "confirm" this 'fact'?

I wonder if there is not someone out there who could contradict this statement

westwicklow

Good points, well made bunnyshooter. Interesting to hear the answers eh?

jwshooter

we will just have to stick to the "FACTS " (only one confirmed )

i had a very interesting walk this morning with one of the country's most experienced deer managers we were just out having a looking at deer and talking deer.
he is also involved in the testing for TB through culling badgers ,

in conversation of TB came up .
most of the ground i have shot over the last 15 years has no cattle on it just sheep .

i that time i only came on one hind and her calf that had it that was on carrawaystick mt in glenmalure about 10 years ago.

he was telling me that once the badgers were removed from a area the TD break outs stop .

so its fair to say deer are not the spreaders of TB but they can get it .

now muntjac are been regarded as spreaders of TB as all deer are in the press,
why is this .

the area we were in this morning holds a very large population of deer no cattle very few badgers no TB .

there is a few people that are scare mongering the IFA into getting more shooting for them selves ,with there newly formed list of hunters given to the IFA .

bunny shooter

jwshooter wrote: »

we will just have to stick to the "FACTS " (only one confirmed ).........

I'll ask again, "confirmed" by who or what organisaton/s? Not disputing your comment just looking for your poof of "confirmation".

And just because one has been "confirmed" does this mean there are no more out there and no more have been shot? Or do we have to wait for confirmation of this "fact" from this as yet unamed person/s or organisation/s?

As for the whole badgers/deer and TB thing. Humans can get/carry TB too? :eek:

jwshooter

a game keep shot one when out lamping with a 223 ,i have seen a picture of it that john griffen had. after that i know noting.

bunny shooter

jwshooter wrote: »

a game keep shot one when out lamping with a 223 ,i have seen a picture of it that john griffen had. after that i know noting.

Which would/could be illegal ? :eek: Probably thought it was fox

Game keeper, hardly a recognised authority.

like to hunt

there is a party in avoca with red and blue and orange beams of light and the odd bang bang. we drove around to find the party but just found spent brass.

Sparks

In fairness BS, if a muntjac was poached, it would hardly be reported anywhere (except maybe down the pub over a quiet pint).

bunny shooter

Sparks I draw your attention to post 3 on this thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59938206&postcount=3

Seems 223 would not be legitimate, and the fact it might have been shot under a lamp?

Sparks

Er, BS, that's not reporting one being shot...
...and I doubt that the game keeper who shot the first one with .223 thinking it was a fox would be prosecuted - it's hardly fair to ask an Irish hunter to know what a deer from Southeast Asia (with rare groups in the UK and India) looks like when it's illegal to introduce them here.

bunny shooter

Sparks wrote: »

Er, BS, that's not reporting one being shot....

Photo mentioned might be circumstantial proof of one being shot though

Sparks wrote: »

...and I doubt that the game keeper who shot the first one with .223 thinking it was a fox would be prosecuted - it's hardly fair to ask an Irish hunter to know what a deer from Southeast Asia (with rare groups in the UK and India) looks like when it's illegal to introduce them here.

Ignorance is not a defence in law

Suppose without a confession from the shooter or a munty body with a 223 round in it it might be hard to prove alright

jwshooter

i asked a member of the npws about the shooting of this muntjac .

i was told there was a decision from the top no action was going to be taken on the person who shot it .

i bumped in to him one eve the lad that shot it and had to put my hands in my pockets and bite my tongue .

Jonty

Sparks wrote: »

Er, BS, that's not reporting one being shot...
...and I doubt that the game keeper who shot the first one with .223 thinking it was a fox would be prosecuted - it's hardly fair to ask an Irish hunter to know what a deer from Southeast Asia (with rare groups in the UK and India) looks like when it's illegal to introduce them here.

Surely when you're lamping, you should always ID the target before not after you pull the trigger?

westwicklow

eh... before we all get carried away here, perhaps by the strength of our convictions, in itself to be admired, I'm just worried 'bout how these little creatures will impact on the local farming and rural environment and what can I do to stop them becoming too much of a pest and wearing out their welcome!!

So, if our shooting foxes with .223 for example, and one said muntjac happens into my crosshairs, do I need permit/different weapon before I can pull the trigger?

It wasn't me!

westwicklow wrote: »

eh... before we all get carried away here, perhaps by the strength of our convictions, in itself to be admired, I'm just worried 'bout how these little creatures will impact on the local farming and rural environment and what can I do to stop them becoming too much of a pest and wearing out their welcome!!

So, if our shooting foxes with .223 for example, and one said muntjac happens into my crosshairs, do I need permit/different weapon before I can pull the trigger?

Yes and yes. The Wildlife act only has specifications for all deer species, so you will need a deer licence and a deer-legal calibre.

bunny shooter

I agree with IWM

westwicklow

Next time a muntjac asks me for a deer permit, what am I to say? :rolleyes:

Will they raise any objection to .223 in preference to something bigger? LOL

Thanks to all for the many and varied opinions, advise and offers of help.

like to hunt

they wont get a chance to get out of hand because there is to much lamping on all deer.
and a lad out for a fox wont let a muntjac pass...
wether its a .22 .17 .204 .223 of 12g

It wasn't me!

Look, the legislation is cut and dry: No, you may not shoot a muntjac with a .223. No, you may not shoot one without a deer permit. A red deer doesn't ask for your bloody licence either, but you still need one. Sure, there are a lot of [edit: silly people] out there not abiding by the law, but we don't need to add to that particular pot, so again, no, you may not shoot them until you have a legal calibre and a deer licence.

bunny shooter

Why ask if it's legal if your gonna shoot them anyway?

spideog7

Just out of interest, since these lads are so small what sort of a calibre would work on them? (I understand the legal point of view but just asking out of interest)

If they are around the size of a fox then surely a .22WMR, .17HMR or even a BB would make short work of them, although I'm sure they are built very different to a fox. No experience of deer or anything that big.

jwshooter

this debate is on going in the uk where all the deer groups are pushing for a min of 22 centre fire not "hornet" ,222 up.which is law in scotland but not england i think 243 in min there.
there is a lot of muntjac turning up with lead shot in them which would suggest that shotguns are not effective enough.

the know all will say there no bigger than a fox ,but how many foxes are shot with shot guns and lost or to be caught by the dogs in cover .

and its illegal to hunt deer with a pack of dogs

like to hunt

so can we all let the muntjac breed in pease.
till there are numbers of them...
some people even keep them as pets!!!!!!!!!!

BryanL

like to hunt wrote: »

so can we all let the muntjac breed in pease.
till there are numbers of them...
some people even keep them as pets!!!!!!!!!!

Wouldn't that make a mockery of any claims that hunting is of benefit because it controls vermin etc.?
Bryan

like to hunt

not vermin...deer
and they make a good meal..
shoot what you eat..
and shoot what kills what you eat..

kakashka

Not seen name mentioned here but please feel free to delete if necessary

I believe "the first Muntjak shot in IRL" was imported for that very purpose.

like to hunt

that muntjac was a set up to make noise..
i have been to the place with a lamp and have talked to the farmers adjoinen the esate.
even went for walks throw there nice place..
and i know the land well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mush of shot his pet.. because there ant none there..

i think it was a sacrefice...