Floor Press...thoughts?

kevpants

Trying to think of ways to tackle my problem with making progress on the bench and something struck me when I was examining my form from two competition vids. I seem to have my elbows right and the bar path looks about right. The thing is I really do miss the lifts fairly high. I seem to have tonnes of strength off my chest and then get stuck, I dunno, 6 - 8 inches up. Looking at them I can't believe I couldn't just lock them out, it looks like I had the hard work done but when I was under the bar I was well and truly beaten by the weight.

Take a look at the attached pics of my missed attempts.

What do people feel about floor presses for an unequipped powerlifter? I'd have scoffed at the idea previously but now I reckon maybe they might be just the tonic.

I mean if you look at the angle of my upper arm I've managed to get it above parralel on both occasions, the weakness kicks in right where the floor presses would begin.

Also, what are peoples thoughts on bench grip. I'm currently doing pinkys on rings but I'm thinking of moving out two fingers to middle fingers on rings. Maybe it would help me get past thing sticking point?

One last question, how big is your mickey?

Hanley

I think that makes sense..... Ya got some way in mind of rigging them up in TF??

I'll be up there later probably if you want me to bring that book?

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

I think that makes sense..... Ya got some way in mind of rigging them up in TF??

I'll be up there later probably if you want me to bring that book?

Oh yeah cool. I though you were going up last night? I'm heading up tonight anyhoo.

I reckon the safety bars in the squat rack, if it's free, are about the right height for an easy enough lift off.

I'll be taking it easy tonight so might spend some time working out how to set them up.

accensi0n

What muscles are used/not used at the differant points?

As in, what muscles are being used at the 8 inch point that aren't used at the 2 inch point?

itsallaboutheL

How about doing slightly longer range Lockouts off the safeties for when theres no spotters?? Also as i have ye both here, i've gotten into a nasty habit of bench ridiculously close, but my lat pull-down is very wide, is there some correlation in strenght between theese two?? i vaguely remember eading about it somewhere... cheers

kevpants

accensi0n wrote: »

What muscles are used/not used at the differant points?

As in, what muscles are being used at the 8 inch point that aren't used at the 2 inch point?

The big change really is from chest and back to get it moving then triceps to lockout. Shoulders are in there somewhere but I'm not sure where .

The general rule is you should be stronger at lockout than off the chest if you lift unequipped. I seem to be breaking that rule.

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

Oh yeah cool. I though you were going up last night? I'm heading up tonight anyhoo.

I reckon the safety bars in the squat rack, if it's free, are about the right height for an easy enough lift off.

I'll be taking it easy tonight so might spend some time working out how to set them up.

I was. Cursing Jim Wendler's name. Pulling a day after squatting 305 is NOT advisable.

I always thought the squat rack would be too high... Could be wrong tho! You might be able to balance it on the end of a bench. Or built up the reebok steps to the right height...

Hanley

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

How about doing slightly longer range Lockouts off the safeties for when theres no spotters?? Also as i have ye both here, i've gotten into a nasty habit of bench ridiculously close, but my lat pull-down is very wide, is there some correlation in strenght between theese two?? i vaguely remember eading about it somewhere... cheers

Doubtful tbh.

Row and bench, probably moreso.

kevpants

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

How about doing slightly longer range Lockouts off the safeties for when theres no spotters?? Also as i have ye both here, i've gotten into a nasty habit of bench ridiculously close, but my lat pull-down is very wide, is there some correlation in strenght between theese two?? i vaguely remember eading about it somewhere... cheers

Good idea man. I could lie on a couple of those Reebok steps and do lockouts from static off the safety bars if I wanted to get a bit deeper. Good stuff I wouldn't have thought of that.

Roper

kevpants wrote: »

I reckon the safety bars in the squat rack, if it's free, are about the right height for an easy enough lift off.

I'll be taking it easy tonight so might spend some time working out how to set them up.

Why don't you just do them on a mat and get someone to load you? That's assuming it's a dumbell floor press. For the barbell press, the bottom pins on my rack are too high for them but maybe TF has a different set up. If there's a power rack with adjustable J hooks you could probably do them the same as you'd bench.

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

I was. Cursing Jim Wendler's name. Pulling a day after squatting 305 is NOT advisable.

WTF? You did Deadlifts as your first day in the wave? Swapped them with squats I suppose?

itsallaboutheL

OR even off a normal bench in a cage with safeties just below where your sticking, if you get my drift, if you rest the bar after each rep you wont have any concentric energy build up like in a floor press, so you'll just be bustin a gut to get it past your sticking point? yaw meee?

kevpants

Roper wrote: »

Why don't you just do them on a mat and get someone to load you? That's assuming it's a dumbell floor press.

Yeah I thought about dumbell floor press as well. Would you feel they'd be as effective as barbell for my sport?

Roper

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

OR even off a normal bench in a cage with safeties just below where your sticking, if you get my drift, if you rest the bar after each rep you wont have any concentric energy build up like in a floor press, so you'll just be bustin a gut to get it past your sticking point? yaw meee?

That's more like a partial press though.

Kevpants have you considered a partial press, says me who can bench 40kgs less than you?

kevpants

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

OR even off a normal bench in a cage with safeties just below where your sticking, if you get my drift, if you rest the bar after each rep you wont have any concentric energy build up like in a floor press, so you'll just be bustin a gut to get it past your sticking point? yaw meee?

Spoken like a man who'd never stepped into a Total Fitness!

I don't have a cage. If I did the possibilities would be endless!

itsallaboutheL

or board presses from your sticking point

itsallaboutheL

aaaaaaah i see, Kev you could always just train your triceps a bit!!!


did you ever have a close grip in westside?? or was that hanley or am i dreaming

Roper

kevpants wrote: »

Yeah I thought about dumbell floor press as well. Would you feel they'd be as effective as barbell for my sport?

I don't have a clue. What I know about specific PLing you could write on a stamp. Physiology is physiology though and assuming your problem is neural rather than structural, then dumbells would seem to be the way to go.

kevpants

Roper wrote: »

That's more like a partial press though.

Kevpants have you considered a partial press, says me who can bench 40kgs less than you?

Here keep the ideas coming I don't care what you bench! Also I weigh not much less than 40kgs more than you so I'm hardly gonna boast about that one!

Partial press would be on the menu if I could set it up to about the height my miss happens at.

Do ye think pressing from a static bar at about the height of my miss would be better than floor press or do ye think starting a few inches below that point is more advisable?

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

WTF? You did Deadlifts as your first day in the wave? Swapped them with squats I suppose?

Yup. Decided I'm focusing on deadlfits for the rest of the year. I need to get my miserable one up, so seems like it makes sense!

itsallaboutheL

Dare i say it....... have ye a smith machine!!


EDIT: i take that back and am going to burn the computer now

kevpants

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

aaaaaaah i see, Kev you could always just train your triceps a bit!!!


did you ever have a close grip in westside?? or was that hanley or am i dreaming

I did have a close grip and I was quite strong at it but I don't train triceps enough so that has to change.

Roper wrote: »

I don't have a clue. What I know about specific PLing you could write on a stamp. Physiology is physiology though and assuming your problem is neural rather than structural, then dumbells would seem to be the way to go.

That was my point. I suppose I was just saying it's more about getting the weight up than training "for the benefits of benching". Never mind :pac:

I think the problem is more neural as you say Roper but I could also do with adding to my triceps.

I think a plan is emerging. Get bigger gunzz and knock out some kind presses from in or around my sticking point be they off the floor or out of a rack.

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

Yup. Decided I'm focusing on deadlfits for the rest of the year. I need to get my miserable one up, so seems like it makes sense!

Sweet. I saw Ger's 260kg. Mother of jesus he's fast.

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Dare i say it....... have ye a smith machine!!


EDIT: i take that back and am going to burn the computer now

We do. It might come down to it. I suppose it would be no harm to make it one of a few partial/floor press movements. Wouldn't be like I'd be exclusively Smith Benching.

Roper

kevpants wrote: »

That was my point. I suppose I was just saying it's more about getting the weight up than training "for the benefits of benching". Never mind :pac:

I think the problem is more neural as you say Roper but I could also do with adding to my triceps.

I think a plan is emerging. Get bigger gunzz and knock out some kind presses from in or around my sticking point be they off the floor or out of a rack.

What about a mixture of:
Board pressing
Floor Pressing
Close grip pressing
Heavy bench rows (if you can find a high enough bench, or some reebok steps to sit a stable one on)
Scap engagement exercises (you look a little flat to the bench in the upper back? It's hard to tell though the colours in the photo don't help)

And of course, some heavy heavy gun work.

itsallaboutheL

Roper could you elaborate on the scap engagement exercises?? Please

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

Sweet. I saw Ger's 260kg. Mother of jesus he's fast.



We do. It might come down to it. I suppose it would be no harm to make it one of a few partial/floor press movements. Wouldn't be like I'd be exclusively Smith Benching.

Tried it. Didn't work!!

Board Presses are another option like.

Roper

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Roper could you elaborate on the scap engagement exercises??

I could. Scap rows, inverted shrugs, scap push ups, scap pull ups, vertical/horizontal pull aparts, dislocates, and a few others.

kevpants

Roper wrote: »

inverted shrugs

This is like a chin up with straight arms and just a shrug yeah?

itsallaboutheL

God dam it i said board presses and he gets a thanks just coz hes bigger than me!!:D

kevpants

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

God dam it i said board presses and he gets a thanks just coz hes bigger than me!!:D

The thanks was for the Smith idea not working.

God.


Neeeeeeedy

Roper

kevpants wrote: »

This is like a chin up with straight arms and just a shrug yeah?

No that's an scap pull up aka scap chin. An inverted shrug is the opposite movement to that. Light dumbells straight overhead and shrug the shoulders.

Roper

What is there in your gym that you could use for a partial press? I take it there's no boards (my new place will have boards!) but is there a roller maybe? The alternative to that is using your mickey lying on your chest.


Here's an example of a smaller Mickey that you could use as a replacement for a single board.

kevpants

Roper wrote: »

What is there in your gym that you could use for a partial press? I take it there's no boards (my new place will have boards!) but is there a roller maybe? The alternative to that is using your mickey lying on your chest.
.

LMFAO. Just thinking how ghey that would get if you wanted to do a 3 board press. Eeeeewwww.

I could bring my foam roller in I suppose if I'm having....."performance problems"

itsallaboutheL

Or a good strong shoe

Malteaser!

kevpants wrote: »

LMFAO. Just thinking how ghey that would get if you wanted to do a 3 board press. Eeeeewwww.

I could bring my foam roller in I suppose if I'm having....."performance problems"

Hanley has boards that he might bring if you ask nicely!!

Failing that, I have another idea, I'll show you tonight if I see you there!!

Roper

And suddenly one board begins to get bigger...

itsallaboutheL

+ round about 2million:D

rubadub

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

OR even off a normal bench in a cage with safeties just below where your sticking, if you get my drift, if you rest the bar after each rep you wont have any concentric energy build up like in a floor press, so you'll just be bustin a gut to get it past your sticking point? yaw meee?

kevpants wrote: »

Spoken like a man who'd never stepped into a Total Fitness!

I don't have a cage. If I did the possibilities would be endless!

I don't know what half of you are talking about . A board press is boards on the chest right? What if you have boards on the ground so you are raising the bar up a little for your floor press. I put cushions on the ground to raise my bar for deadlifts, both to raise and cushion the floorboards.

I also once had a empty barbell across the hole in my attic (think chinup bar) with adjustable webbing straps coming down with another loaded barbell on the bottom. This was adjusted to be at my lowest squat position. I could have been lying on the ground doing the same though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO_8HrOUBTA

itsallaboutheL

rubadub wrote: »

I also once had a empty barbell across the hole in my attic (think chinup bar) with adjustable webbing straps coming down with another loaded barbell on the bottom. This was adjusted to be at my lowest squat position. I could have been lying on the ground doing the same though.

That is mental:)

the drifter

use your belt to hold the bords in place...not ideal but works on lower weight....

@roper...that smaller mickey looks like it hasnt had alot of use...its still in the origional wrapping for gods sake

Kev M

I have exactly the same problem. Power off the chest but much much less convincing at the top few inches. I've tried making a floor press setup at totalfitness only about ten days ago. No success whatsoever. Tried putting the bar across the safety pins on the smith, this was a dangerous idea! They move quite freely so it's definitely not advisable.

Malteaser!

Malteaser! wrote: »

Hanley has boards that he might bring if you ask nicely!!

Failing that, I have another idea, I'll show you tonight if I see you there!!

This idea actually worked in case anyone is interested. Hanley and Kev were doing them tonight, Hanley explained it in his log:

Lucy Press = Floor press/rack lockout hybrid. It's done off of those reebok aerobic steps. When I set up under the bar it's resting about an inch or two above the bottom position of a floor press, and from there it's pushed to lockout. Pretty much exacty like a rack lockout but just lying on the floor.

Kev is still trying to come up with a proper name for them.

itsallaboutheL

Malteaser! wrote: »

This idea actually worked in case anyone is interested. Hanley and Kev were doing them tonight, Hanley explained it in his log:


Kev is still trying to come up with a proper name for them.

Handjobs:P

Jimmy Bottlehead

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Handjobs:P

Subtle! :pac:

Hanley

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Handjobs:P

You REALLY need to get some.

kevpants

Despite what you duuurty backstards may say, Malteaser's idea worked best. We set up the bar with a minimum of 60kg (to get the clearance off the chest) and rested each side on a reebok step. When you get under the bar it's just a few mm's above a floor press. Just before the point where I miss so it's perfect.

The floor press using the safety bars as a rack worked somewhat too but I think I must have particularly long arms and I had to push my shoulders fwd to get the bar out so not ideal.

I tried some kind of scap retraction stuff too Roper and I think you may have had a point with me being flat on the bench. Did some scap pulldowns on the lat pulldown machine (I can't do a scap pullup!) and then some face pulls with scap retraction. My upper back is quite stiff today and my left scap was really feeling it, nearly cramping up. I don't know if this means it's weak or if it's strong and doing the work on behalf of the other one?