How to sharpen a cut-throat?

OldGoat

I dug out an old case in the shed and in it was an old straight razor, hollow ground, a tad rusty and about as blunt as a very blunt thing can be.
I used a little fine grain wet&dry glass paper to clean the blade then I stropped it on the leather. Eventually I was brave enough to try it on my forearm and not a scratch. Not a hair removed either mind you. The blade would have trouble passing through warm butter!

Anyone got any blade sharpening hints, tips or tricks?

Caoimhín

I think you may need to hone it. Stropping it will make no great difference if it has deteriorated that much.

You can buy honing stones on the web im sure.

Gran Hermano

OldGoat wrote: »

I dug out an old case in the shed and in it was an old straight razor, hollow ground, a tad rusty and about as blunt as a very blunt thing can be.
I used a little fine grain wet&dry glass paper to clean the blade then I stropped it on the leather. Eventually I was brave enough to try it on my forearm and not a scratch. Not a hair removed either mind you. The blade would have trouble passing through warm butter!

Anyone got any blade sharpening hints, tips or tricks?

If you've an hour or ten free, have a look here:
http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/hones/
or maybe post a question here:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=32

OldGoat

I have a collection of water stones and oil stones and have used the 'scary sharp' method to edge chisels and wood plane blades and I was going to try those on the blade but I just wanted to know firstly would they ruin the blade compleatly if I did.
I'll have a nose around the suggested sites and see what I can find. I always have a few hours available to surf the interweb things.

Gran Hermano

Just to add I have noticed several of the shaving stores offer a straight razor sharpening service whereby you post them off your old razor
and for a fee they send it back to you shave-ready. This might be worth
it if your razor is really blunt.
http://www.classicshaving.com/Straight_Razor_Sharpening_Service.html


Couple more quick guides on how to sharpen:
http://www.guidetoshaving.com/sharpen-straight-razor
http://www.ehow.com/how_2221442_sharpen-straight-razor-shaving.html
http://www.executive-shaving.co.uk/dovo-straight-razors.php

il gatto

Very blunt blades need to be honed. A hone is a very, very fine abrasive stone. When it's really sharp, it then needs to be stroped. These days, there's a range of strop pastes available, which varies in abrasiveness and is usually colour coded, so you know which side of the strop you've used with which paste. As mentioned above, it may be an idea to send it away to have it honed professionally the first time as it sounds as blunt as a spoon. Afterwards, regular stroping should be enough to keep it sharp, and honing only required when it gets notchy.

OldGoat

I've no interest in send them away. The idea is to learn to do it myself. I'm too much of a miserly old grouch to pay someone for something I can do myself

I've pried off the 'mother of pearl' handles , taken the blade out and have cleaned the body of the razor. I'm in the proscess of making repairs to a couple of cracks and chips in the handles.

I've decided to start with just a bench whetstone and see what the result is. If that dosen't produce a good result then I'll get thick with it and use a couple of various grade oil stones and finally finish off with the strop.

By the time I'm finished with this I'll be cutting atoms. The ridiculous part of this whole endevour is that I have a full beard and won't be shaving with the razor.

Caoimhín

OldGoat wrote: »

By the time I'm finished with this I'll be cutting atoms. The ridiculous part of this whole endevour is that I have a full beard and won't be shaving with the razor.

Try it out by shaving your nuts then....

OldGoat

Pfffft, thats what beard trimmers are for.:)

Caoimhín

OldGoat wrote: »

Pfffft, thats what beard trimmers are for.:)

Real men use a chainsaw.

OldGoat

Pics or GTFO

Dord

OldGoat wrote: »

'mother of pearl'

In the guitar world fake mother of pearl is usually called mother of toilet seat. :pac:

Post up some pics of the razor so we can see what it looks like and the condition.

OldGoat

I'll post some before & after pics when it's done. Don't hold your breath though as I tend to be all enthusastic at the start of any new project and then slowly lapse into 'meh...'

Dord

OldGoat wrote: »

I'll post some before & after pics when it's done. Don't hold your breath though as I tend to be all enthusastic at the start of any new project and then slowly lapse into 'meh...'

*double checks to see if I actually wrote this*

Hmm, I'm the same... I've got about 3 or 4 different half finished projects.
One of which has been in the same state since about 2006.

OldGoat

Wimmins say that men can't multitask. I think we just proved that we can't multifinish either.

MediaTank

This guy will do it for you http://www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk/

il gatto

Dord wrote: »

In the guitar world fake mother of pearl is usually called mother of toilet seat. :pac:

Post up some pics of the razor so we can see what it looks like and the condition.

I wouldn't know. I've got a Les Paul:cool::D

Dord

il gatto wrote: »

I wouldn't know. I've got a Les Paul:cool::D

...and, so do I! :cool:

il gatto

Dord wrote: »

...and, so do I! :cool:

God, we're too cool for this thread:D

OldGoat

Oh please no, I can see it now...it's the re-birth of ZZ-Top!:eek:

Dord

re-birth? they're still alive!

OldGoat

Mere shadows of their former selves singing dirges about beer and mexican prostitutes - and not in a good way. How the mighty have fallen.

Que thread of famous facial-haired musicians. May I lead off with the god that was Frank Zappa and his famed "Zappa 'tache".

Caoimhín

OldGoat wrote: »

Mere shadows of their former selves singing dirges about beer and mexican prostitutes - and not in a good way. How the mighty have fallen.

I will fight any man who belittles beer and Mexican prostitutes.

Musashi

I use japanese waterstones, start at about 1000 grit unless some serious rebeveling is needed. Like sharpening a knife only the back of the blade sets your angle for you. Mask the spine with electricians tape on the coarser grits to prevent too much steel being removed.

The stones I have go up to 6000 grit which is considered a polishing stone on knives. I've ordered a 12000 grit stone as well. The scary sharp system should do well on a granite surface plate or float glass base? 3 micron diamond compound on a strop is roughly equivalent to 8000 grit japanese stones.

Norton, Shapton et al have various grit systems so it can be tough to know what is equivalent using various bits.

I usually strop using green, blue and white compounds on dedicated strops. I have also ordered 3, 1, .5 and .25 micron diamond pastes and dovo red and black compounds. Must get more veg. tanned leather for strops! I have heard that the diamonds are very aggressive and leave a more pronounced scratch pattern, but the softer compounds should polish those out if necessary.

Did you get the scary sharp system from Lee Valley? What grit range do you have available to you, like did you get the mylar polishing films? I think they go down to 9000 grit odd (.5 micron) with an adhesive backed sheet.

I mostly sharpen knives with oil and waterstones followed by strops, have convexed a few with abrasive sheets on mousemat or thick rubber mat. I have a bench grinder on order with belts from 80 grit down to 15 micron and some leather polishing belts, but again that's for tools, knives, resetting bevels and that.

The old razor I polished will "Ping" and sever a free hanging hair pulled across it now, may need a little more polishing but it's coming right.

Just for comparison, here's a pic of a "Feather" double edge razor blade compared to a polished straight razor edge. Not my work I hasten to add!

Top is a feather blade, very sharp DE blade



And this is a very poilished straight razor edge!




Someday I hope! :eek:

OldGoat

My scary set up is on glass. I 'aquired' a piece of 1/2" plate thats about 8" by 36" from someones glass staircase. I use a photomount spray to fix the various grades of carbide up to a grade 2000 for wood chisels and this serves well. The papers are easly enough remove when damaged or wasted and the glass cleaned ready for the next batch.

But my biggest problem with sharpening the razor is the lack of a honing jig. I've tried jury-rigging and botching one togther (blissful 4 hours wasted) but razor still rocked and would not take a fine finish.

I'm also guessing what degree to use to finish the cutting edge. For a woodplane I use a 25 degree bevel and then a 30 degree micro-bevel then a wipe or two on the wet&dry to clean off the burr. So, simply because I know those angles work well I've been trying to make a jig to hone the razor blade at those angles.

Blood drawn so far...about a quarter pint.

Musashi

I'm also guessing what degree to use to finish the cutting edge. For a woodplane I use a 25 degree bevel and then a 30 degree micro-bevel then a wipe or two on the wet&dry to clean off the burr. So, simply because I know those angles work well I've been trying to make a jig to hone the razor blade at those angles.

Luckily razors are made with a "built in" jig lad!

Lay the blade flat to the stones or glass plate, the spine at the rear sets the angle at the edge. All you do is make sure the edge is flat to the abrasive and apply even pressure to the whole blade to ensure you get a nice even edge bevel. This clip shows it pretty well.

I would suggest starting at as high a grit as you can get away with to set your edge bevel, I used a 1000grit King waterstone to remove some chips and rot on an old razor. If the edge is pretty good I'd start at the 2000 grit and see how that goes, you can always remove more with a coarser grit if needed.

On the coarser grit I put a bit of plastic tape around the spine to prevent wearing it too much and changing your bevel angle by over aggressive honing. It raises your main bevel slightly, so you may need to remove a little more from the shoulder on the next higher grit, before you get to hone the edge again. At the 6000 grit waterstone I just remove the tape as this stone is more polishing than honing. I'll see if I can find the charts giving equivalent Western, Japanese, Norton, Shapton, Diamond and other grit comparisons.

A good article here covers most options in his PDF at the bottom of the page.

http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/True+Grit+Understanding+Sharpening+Grits.aspx

I would try the 2000 grit paper first and then either strop with leather using edge trailing strokes and little to no pressure, or try some of the PVA adhesive backed micron papers used the same way. I'm not a fan of the free hanging belt type strops as I feel they can curl up the trailing face of the edge and actually dull it. I much prefer wooden backed paddle strops or a system like yours using the float glass for extra flatness! Nice score there.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=b09302cea5742e937ac7d2c53266bf6c&Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=ST-MAF.XX&Category_Code=THS

or

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=33004&cat=1,43072

You can use strop paste or buffing compounds on leather, stuff like flitz or Autosol, T-Cut or diamond pastes to polish all tools, not just the razor.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32984&cat=1,43072

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=ST-DIAMLAP.XX&Category_Code=TFA

Even try some buffing compound on cardboard or newspaper for a polishing on stuff like planes and chisels. I'm not sure what kind of chisels you have, but if your a carver or turner with gouges and Vee chisels, you can get those awkward angles with compound on wood or cardboard forms.

Have a look at the power sharpener and power honer on this page. They would over heat and ruin the thin edge on a razor, but for tools and knives etc. they are good.

http://www.chippingaway.com/VideoDemos/Default.aspx?V=Power_Sharpener-In_Use

Hope this has made sense, let me know if I can help in any way.

OldGoat

Musashi. You, Sir, are officially my new idol. For the rest of this week I'll sing your praises to one and all. Kudos and thanks.

Musashi

Good clip on stropping, this whole series is good from setting to honing and stropping.

No bother lad, glad to help people searching for the neck shiver edges!

This is a good clip of a guy using scary-sharp and PSA Micron papers to good effect on high end kitchen cutlery. Watch the final paper cut he performs during the "credits" segment!

Fajitas!

I've aquired myself two quite old straight razors, that are going to take a bit of work to get back up to scratch, a bit of rust on each, and they'll need plenty of sharpening. Going to take a bit of work by the looks of it

OldGoat

Two razors Fajitas to let you shave twice a quickly?
Have fun with the sharpening stones.

Fajitas!

Oh aye - I plan on doing a Todd on it...

Gran Hermano

I'm planning on picking up a Dovo straight and a strop this week. I picked up a Dovo shavette some weeks back and it's only making me want a proper straight more.

The plan is to use a straight on the weekend and a DE during the week.

Fajitas!

How do you find the shavette?

Is there as big a learning curve going from DE to straight as one would think?

OldGoat

How are the blades sharpening up Fajitas? Have you tried lifting arm hair yet?

Fajitas!

I actually don't have them yet - I have to pop back over to Waterford next week, so I'll pick them up then, my old man has them in the mean time. Looking forward to getting them into good nick though.

Edit; Fwiw, I think one of them is a Crown & Sword, which is quite quite old and in more need of attention, the other one is a Kropp from Sheffield - Both are supposed to be alright, so we'll see what comes of them.

Fajitas!

I just found out somebody else found their old straight. I'll have a busy weekend next week between work, taking off rust and sharpening!

Fajitas!

Just arrived home from nearly 12 hours of travelling, so don't have the energy to take proper photos. Light was terrible, but you'll get the idea. Original boxes and all. One is from either early 1900's or just before, another is 1930's and the other is 1950's - 1960's.





I actually thought they'd be in worse nick than they are, but they're still going to take a bit of work.

MediaTank

Very nice, looking forwars to seeing them cleaned up.

Fajitas!

So am I, I got a macro lens at the blade today and they're in perfect nick, just need to 3M the rust off. I even managed to nick my hand today on the oldest of them.

I know I posted some photos above, but I got some with some nicer light today, I have all their original boxes, they look fantastic, it's a shame they're not in better condition.

OldGoat

Not to be outdone by Fajitas I've also gotten a 'new' old cutthroat. Losts of rust spots to be cleaned off before sharpening. Not sure if the handle is bakeolite (sp?). Anyone know hot to tell?

Fajitas!

Post up a pic!

Bakelite can be quite brittle, especially if it's quite old, but tbh, I'd prefer it to celluloid which is quite flamable

MediaTank

OldGoat wrote: »

Not to be outdone by Fajitas I've also gotten a 'new' old cutthroat. Losts of rust spots to be cleaned off before sharpening. Not sure if the handle is bakeolite (sp?). Anyone know hot to tell?

This may help http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/workshop/40765-celluloid-bakelite-repair.html

OldGoat

Thanks Media. I'll be inhaleing various bits of shell, horn, celluloite and bakolite for the next few weeks for comparrisons to determine what the handles of the razor are.

OldGoat

Plastic handles. Was hoping for bakolite.

Amalgam

Can you get by for extended periods of use without ever having to hone on stones etc?

I can see myself using a strop, but not a waterstone etc.. just looks like an unforgiving process, if you mess it up.

MediaTank

Amalgam wrote: »

Can you get by for extended periods of use without ever having to hone on stones etc?

I can see myself using a strop, but not a waterstone etc.. just looks like an unforgiving process, if you mess it up.

Yes, you strop before every shave and should only need to hone 1-2 times per year. invisbleedge offer a honing service if you don't want to do it yourself.

Old'n'Cranky

I'm fairly new to all this and I'm wondering where can I get sharpening hones? How many do I need? and which grit?


Any help will be greatly appreciated....

Gran Hermano

OldnCranky wrote: »

I'm fairly new to all this and I'm wondering where can I get sharpening hones? How many do I need? and which grit?


Any help will be greatly appreciated....

Have a read of this thread


Stropping before shaving as mentioned is your main maintenance routine.
Some people also strop after shaving.

As an inbetween step between stropping and the need to hone you can
use a second strop with chromium oxide paste. The addition of the paste
gives the strop the ability to act like a gentle hone.

My plan is to stick to the two strops, one pasted one unpasted, and to
have a couple of straights at home meaning I can send one off to a
professional for honing when it needs it.

Old'n'Cranky

Gran Hermano wrote: »

My plan is to stick to the two strops, one pasted one unpasted, and to
have a couple of straights at home meaning I can send one off to a
professional for honing when it needs it.

That sounds like a plan to me thanks for your help

Sean Quagmire

Gran Hermano wrote: »

I'm planning on picking up a Dovo straight and a strop this week. I picked up a Dovo shavette some weeks back and it's only making me want a proper straight more.

The plan is to use a straight on the weekend and a DE during the week.

Any more info on this?
I was looking at a stainless DOVO shavette on ebay €30 delivered but the more info I read on them the more I think it would be better going for the full straight. The only issue with that is the stropping and honing. I wouldnt mind stropping it everyday but getting honed would just run up the costs and hassle.

i was looking at this .

Gran Hermano

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

Any more info on this?
I was looking at a stainless DOVO shavette on ebay €30 delivered but the more info I read on them the more I think it would be better going for the full straight. The only issue with that is the stropping and honing. I wouldnt mind stropping it everyday but getting honed would just run up the costs and hassle.

i was looking at this .

Sean, I'm still in the early stages of using a straight as the learning curve
is steeper than the transition from a cartridge to a DE.

I don't regret starting with a Dovo shavette for a couple of reasons.
Using a shavetter with a DE blade snapped in half means you have
a much smaller/shorter cutting edge than a proper straight. Whilst
it's lighter and 'faster' to use it didn't feel as daunting as holding up a
large piece of sharp and cold metal that the straight is.

You have the benefit of not having to worry about honing and stropping
but the technique I learnt in using a shavette had to be adapted for using
a proper straight. Some people find they cut themselves more with the
shavette as it's lighter and often sharper than a straight.

Have a read of these three posts, they are some of the best information
I found whilst looking into the whole subject.
1 Choosing a straight
2 Strops
3 Hones
The author of the above, Neil Miller, is a good guy and he sells restored razors and new strops.
You'll find him on ebay and the usual fora.

As I mentioned elsewhere on here, I've picked up a couple of straights
and they most important tip I have is to make sure it is truly 'shave ready'
and not just what the manufacturer terms 'shave ready'. I've read many
accounts of people buying new razors defined as shave ready by the
manufacturer and sellers but not so.

I recommend buying a razor (new or restored) from either Neill Miller or
Steve from http://www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk/
Both of these will make sure anything you buy is perfectly shave ready
and honed by them. When starting you need to know if it's the razor
or your technique that needs improving.

Steve stocks the Dovo range, and I picked up my Dovo Special 6/8
from him. Most advice I've read recommends a 5/8 or 6/8 to start.

Pick up a cheap strop. I was advised not to purchase an expensive one
until I'd spent some weeks/months stropping as until you get the technique
into your muscle memory you'll make a mistake and nick the leather.
(I did and am delighted it was a £30 one and not the one for £100!).

Don't worry about honing. Easiest solution is to get a couple of razors
and send them back for professional honing as the need arises. Buying the
necessary hones and stones can cost serious money especially compared
to paying for a couple of hones a year. Plus if I ruin the detail on my straights I'd be gutted!

I'm still only using a straight when I have time and no interruptions on the
weekend. The sense of achievement is great but it's baby steps at the start and for a while.
Shaving prep is even more important with straights
I find than with the DEs and the killer at the minute I know with the same
prep and a new blade in my favourite DE razor I can get an excellent shave.

Hope the above helps somewhat.