New Survey says 93% wish to see Irish language revived & preserved

RATM

Right firstly apologies for typing english in here but I'm not one of the 47% of the population that claimed they are 'reasonably competent'
in Irish but did think this would be of some interest to people on this board.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0422/breaking8.htm

dr.bollocko

Moved from teach na nGealt.

Stollaire

Seo an tuarascáil as Gaeilge agus i
mBéarla

Redbhoy

Unfortunately, like the government, Irish people pay lip service to the language. They'd all love to speak, it if someone invented a chip with the language on it and could plug it into their brains maybe then they'd practice it.
The GAA have it in their constitution to promote the language but this is also a token gesture as there seems to be no enthusiasm to promote it anywhere.

Grudaire

Redbhoy wrote: »

Unfortunately, like the government, Irish people pay lip service to the language. They'd all love to speak, it if someone invented a chip with the language on it and could plug it into their brains maybe then they'd practice it.
The GAA have it in their constitution to promote the language but this is also a token gesture as there seems to be no enthusiasm to promote it anywhere.

An bhfuil Gaeilge agat? If you even have a bit I would encourage you to use it here!:D

It's a problem - it's all fecking lip service

Tá beagáinín gaeilge agam. (checks spelling in a dictionary)

One thing I noticed quickly scanning through the report is the fact that the majority of Irish speakers/tryers were better educated than those the didn't care.

I suppose that is simply down to the fact that some people are more willing to put in the effort to learn (anything) than others.

arse..biscuits

Deleted User wrote: »

Tá beagáinín gaeilge agam. (checks spelling in a dictionary)

One thing I noticed quickly scanning through the report is the fact that the majority of Irish speakers/tryers were better educated than those the didn't care.

I suppose that is simply down to the fact that some people are more willing to put in the effort to learn (anything) than others.

I'm making the effort, off to Glencolmcille for the May bank holiday weekend

Grudaire

Right - well since everyone here appears to have an interest in the language (and it's preservation)

Conas ba ceart dúinn, nó don rialtas an teanga a caomhnú? Tá mé ag iarraidh smaointí difriúil, mar tá fios ag cách go bhfuil daoine leisciúil, pé rud a deirtear san tuarascáil!

So just wondering if anyone has any different ideas about how to preserve the language, because we all know how lazy people can be, whatever they might say in a survey

conchubhar1

Redbhoy wrote: »

The GAA have it in their constitution to promote the language but this is also a token gesture as there seems to be no enthusiasm to promote it anywhere.

amen to that - dont even have clg as there slogan

to be honest the language is preserved - it wont die in any forseeable future
it might gain ground - but in no significant way

not pessimistic but to be honest - its doing fine considering

Drakmord

I'd love to be able to speak Irish. It was one subject I just couldn't get my head round in school. I blame my Irish teachers!
I never had any trouble with German or Japanese, got A1s in both and I had to do pass Irish.
If we were bilingual grand. I'd be very proud of the language. But it just seems so redundant to learn it. All that time in primary school where we could have been learning a mainstream European language lost. Though, to be honest, knowing the education system here they'd probably mess up the teaching of that too.

I'm currently learning French in my spare time, my third foreign language. To be honest I believe the language will die without serious reform in the way it is thought.

Just my 2 cent.

No offence meant to any of you lovers of the Irish language.

IIMII

Drakmord wrote: »

I never had any trouble with German or Japanese, got A1s in both and I had to do pass Irish.

It's always the ones closest to home that can trip you up. What was it you found difficult? I can imagine it's very embarrassing to admit that after 13 or 14 years of trying to learn something, that you somehow found it impossible to learn anything, escpecially since you mastered Japanese. But what is it that makes the language so difficult compared to Japanese?

Funnily enough, most speakers of foreign languages (other than English) that I know speak Irish and frequently the ones that don't speak any foreign languages (other than English) are also the ones that don't speak any Irish

Drakmord

IIMII wrote: »

It's always the ones closest to home that can trip you up. What was it you found difficult? I can imagine it's very embarrassing to admit that after 13 or 14 years of trying to learn something, that you somehow found it impossible to learn anything, escpecially since you mastered Japanese. But what is it that makes the language so difficult compared to Japanese?

Funnily enough, most speakers of foreign languages (other than English) that I know speak Irish and frequently the ones that don't speak any foreign languages (other than English) are also the ones that don't speak any Irish

I guess I just wasn't compatible with it. I can understand quite a bit of it. But my knowledge of it ends there. I'd make too many grammatical errors if i attempted to speak it. I remember having trouble with the verb tenses. Just kept mixing them up.

Grudaire

Drakmord wrote: »

I'd make too many grammatical errors if i attempted to speak it. I remember having trouble with the verb tenses. Just kept mixing them up.

A lack of confidence doesn't help - but what harm if you feck up a few words here and there - it's not about perfection (Pé rud a deireann cúpla Gaeilgeoirí). Would you find that some Irish speakers are too judgemental, insisting on gramitical correctness to a annoying degree?

Is fearr Gaeilge briste ná Béarla cliste! besides it's only with use that you can hope to improve.

ColmDawson

Is deas é a chloisteáil, ach tá orainn bheith ag caint! Ní thuigtear é sin. Tá suim ag daoine in aiséirí Gaeilge, ach táimid leisciúil...

Grudaire

ColmDawson wrote: »

Is deas é a chloisteáil, ach tá orainn bheith ag caint! Ní thuigtear é sin. Tá suim ag daoine in aiséirí Gaeilge, ach táimid leisciúil...

Ba ceart dúinn bogadh Gaeilge a tosú. Ceann le fuinneamh, agus nach bhfuil sean-aimsire.

An bhfaca aon duine an Gaeilgeoir nocht?

(An píosa leis an gnéas as Gaeilge)

Nílim ag rá gur ceart dúinn dul thart ag ionsaí Béarladóirí, ach tá meon níos ionsaitheach á teastáil ag Gaeilgeoirí - ná bíodh náire orainn!

poisonated

ni cainim alan gailge ach...
I have great respect to those who speak it.Its a true symbol of Irish patriotism.It would be a shame to lose the language

lucky-colm

can't say as i would loose any sleep over the irish language becoming extinct actually it might mean that our children might learn another langauge in school instead that might be more usefull to them in there lives

Grudaire

lucky-colm wrote: »

can't say as i would loose any sleep over the irish language becoming extinct actually it might mean that our children might learn another langauge in school instead that might be more usefull to them in there lives

There's always 7%:pac:

ColmDawson

Ba mhaith liom daoine leis an dhá teanga a fheiceáil. Ceapann an cuid is mó de mo chairde gur teanga marbh í an Gaeilge. Ní fheiceann siad aon cúis le Gaeilge a staidéar nó a labhairt, ach céard faoin sult atá le baint as labhairt teanga?

Grudaire

ColmDawson wrote: »

Ba mhaith liom daoine leis an dhá teanga a fheiceáil. Ceapann an cuid is mó de mo chairde gur teanga marbh í an Gaeilge. Ní fheiceann siad aon cúis le Gaeilge a staidéar nó a labhairt, ach céard faoin sult atá le baint as labhairt teanga?

Ach conas a spreagfaimid é sin i measc an phobal?

ColmDawson

lucky-colm wrote: »

can't say as i would loose any sleep over the irish language becoming extinct actually it might mean that our children might learn another langauge in school instead that might be more usefull to them in there lives

Is féidir linn teanga idirnáisiúnta a staidéar cheana féin. Is rud tábhachtach é bheith in ann do theanga dúchais a labhairt (sin é mo thuairim, ar aon nós).

conchubhar1

ah ye, mar a bhfuil fhios againn níl tú in ann ach dhá theanga a labhairt

as it is known you can only speak two languages

Capt'n Midnight

One nice thing about having Irish is that you could use it as a private language most places outside the country.

ColmDawson

conchubhar1 wrote: »

ah ye, mar a bhfuil fhios againn níl tú in ann ach dhá theanga a labhairt

as it is known you can only speak two languages

Bhí sé ag caint faoi teanga idirnáisiúnta in ionad Gaeilge. Ní thaiteann an smaoineamh sinn liom. Ar ndóigh, is buntáiste í aon teanga breise.

conchubhar1

ach tá tú in ann níos mó ná teanga nó dhá teanga, sin cad a bhí le rá agam

ye but your able to speak more than one or two languages, that was what i was saying

O'Coonassa

The number of native Irish speakers continues to decline and is a smaller fraction than it was in 1922. When these few people are gone that will be what linguists call Total Language Death.

"It is not very long since I stood on the coast of Donegal and asked two boys how many languages they had. They had three. One was English, which they spoke much better than it is ever spoken in England. The second was Irish, which they spoke with their parents. The third was the language invented by the Gaelic League, which I cannot speak (being an Irishman), but which I understand to be in its qualities comparable to a blend of Esperanto with fifth- century Latin"

George Bernard Shaw (The New Statesman 12 July 1913)

ColmDawson

conchubhar1 wrote: »

ach tá tú in ann níos mó ná teanga nó dhá teanga, sin cad a bhí le rá agam

ye but your able to speak more than one or two languages, that was what i was saying

Je sais, je sais

conchubhar1

O'Coonassa wrote: »

The number of native Irish speakers continues to decline and is a smaller fraction than it was in 1922. When these few people are gone that will be what linguists call Total Language Death.

"It is not very long since I stood on the coast of Donegal and asked two boys how many languages they had. They had three. One was English, which they spoke much better than it is ever spoken in England. The second was Irish, which they spoke with their parents. The third was the language invented by the Gaelic League, which I cannot speak (being an Irishman), but which I understand to be in its qualities comparable to a blend of Esperanto with fifth- century Latin"

George Bernard Shaw (The New Statesman 12 July 1913)

ah the expert himself on the irish language - he is highly qualified to compare shifts or compare different irish is he?

pifff, how did the gaelic league create any irish?

O'Coonassa

conchubhar1 wrote: »

ah the expert himself on the irish language - he is highly qualified to compare shifts or compare different irish is he?

pifff, how did the gaelic league create any irish?

What he wrote is clearly comic exaggeration but there is a truth in it. When the gaelic league set to work the language was already a moribund half dead thing spoken only by the poor and under-educated. Few if any of the leaguers were native speakers. It stands to reason that I cannot go and learn a language from a mostly illiterate population and become an expert in it.

There's a very funny passage in Flann O'Briens An Béal Bocht where a Gaelic Leauger ends up recording the utterances of Ambrose the pig because he thinks it to be the sweetest purest Gaelic that was ever spoken. I take the point being made but do realise that it has the capicity to upset those who have learned the language second hand rather than as native speakers.

conchubhar1

the first irish newspaper was set up in 1795

irish speakers were dropping of course - but bulingualism was still high
i dont believe it was ''moribund''

conchubhar1

O'Coonassa wrote: »

t stands to reason that I cannot go and learn a language from a mostly illiterate population and become an expert in it.

There's a very funny passage in Flann O'Briens An Béal Bocht

I take the point being made but do realise that it has the capicity to upset those who have learned the language second hand rather than as native speakers.

illiterate - but could speak it perfectly
béal bocht is a comedy
the vast majority of irish speakers learned it as a second language

O'Coonassa

conchubhar1 wrote: »

illiterate - but could speak it perfectly
béal bocht is a comedy
the vast majority of irish speakers learned it as a second language

Yes An Béal Bocht is a satire. If Irish is cheifly learned as a second language it is no longer a native tounge. I can speak several languages but when I dream I must dream in English because that is my native language. According to the linguist David Crystal a language is considered moribund when intergenerational transmission has largely ceased. Since the penal times this type of transmission has been in terminal decline. There are less native speakers now than at any point in history and their numbers are dwindling year on year.

Adhamh

When will government officials realise that in order to increase the amount of people speaking Irish they should enable people to work through Irish- if I want a livelihood using Irish I think that it's largely fair to say that I'd be bound to being a fisherman or a farmer- not that they're bad or anything but so many people are leaving rural areas looking for good white-collar work. Work is the foundation of ones life and community. Traditionally, people abandoned the language because there was no opportunities with it and they all had to emmigrate or go up to Dublin.

Also, a guy I know went to Morocco a few weeks ago and said that most people can easily speak Berber, Arabic, French and a fair bit of English due to tourism becoming a serious source of employment for many- see! economic incentive.

An gal gréine

Also, a guy I know went to Morocco a few weeks ago and said that most people can easily speak Berber, Arabic, French and a fair bit of English due to tourism becoming a serious source of employment for many- see! economic incentive.[/quote]

I was amazed when on a holiday to Tunisia a few year ago to find that all the street traders had half a dozen Gaelic phrases for us when they found out where we were from. They could even tell at a distance we were Irish due to complexion (freckles etc. I suppose). Our amusement and surprise at this was, of course, their economic oppurtunity.

conchubhar1

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Yes An Béal Bocht is a satire. If Irish is cheifly learned as a second language it is no longer a native tounge. I can speak several languages but when I dream I must dream in English because that is my native language. According to the linguist David Crystal a language is considered moribund when intergenerational transmission has largely ceased. Since the penal times this type of transmission has been in terminal decline. There are less native speakers now than at any point in history and their numbers are dwindling year on year.

i also dream in irish sometimes

yet the number of irish speakers is increasing

conchubhar1

Adhamh wrote: »

When will government officials realise that in order to increase the amount of people speaking Irish they should enable people to work through Irish- if I want a livelihood using Irish I think that it's largely fair to say that I'd be bound to being a fisherman or a farmer- not that they're bad or anything but so many people are leaving rural areas looking for good white-collar work. Work is the foundation of ones life and community. Traditionally, people abandoned the language because there was no opportunities with it and they all had to emmigrate or go up to Dublin.

Also, a guy I know went to Morocco a few weeks ago and said that most people can easily speak Berber, Arabic, French and a fair bit of English due to tourism becoming a serious source of employment for many- see! economic incentive.

translation, teaching and the media - plenty of irish jobs

O'Coonassa

conchubhar1 wrote: »

yet the number of irish speakers is increasing

Yes but the only way to bring Irish back to life is to speak it to newborns and I don't see that happening. In fact the opposite is happening hence the decline of native speakers. Lot's of Irish people speak leaving cert French, that doesn't mean that it's replacing or becoming our native tounge.

conchubhar1

are you completly oblivious to the huge increase in:


naoinraí
gaelscoileanna (bún and méanscoileanna)


yes?

Purple Gorilla

I'm in Transition Year and would consider myself fairly good at Irish..Got an A in the JC at Honours level (Don't think I'm good enough to post in Irish though :P )

To be honest, I really think Irish needs to be overhauled in schools. I do Spanish as my continental language. I've been doing that for 4 years now and I've been doing Irish for what...11 years? I'd consider myself more competent in Spanish than Irish because it feels like Irish is just forced on you. I'm not saying make it optional..I'd never want that..but I do think the something has to happen...

Like the Irish JC paper should be re-done and I think it should have the same layout as the Continental Language papers as it's just too hard. I know we are supposed to be good enough to take the current Irish paper, but the reality is that we aren't

Fighting Irish

lol @ 93%

FruitLover

ColmDawson wrote: »

ach céard faoin sult atá le baint as labhairt teanga?

Learning a language that you can actually use is far more enjoyable.

ColmDawson wrote: »

Is féidir linn teanga idirnáisiúnta a staidéar cheana féin

You could say the same about Irish.

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

I'd consider myself more competent in Spanish than Irish because it feels like Irish is just forced on you. I'm not saying make it optional..I'd never want that..but I do think the something has to happen...

Why not? you've just admitted that making it compulsory is useless.

conchubhar1

FruitLover wrote: »

Learning a language that you can actually use is far more enjoyable.

you can use irish

You could say the same about Irish.

like going in circles? - weeeeeee

Why not? you've just admitted that making it compulsory is useless.

no, thats the interpretation you took out of it

..

Purple Gorilla

FruitLover wrote: »

Learning a language that you can actually use is far more enjoyable.



You could say the same about Irish.



Why not? you've just admitted that making it compulsory is useless.

Yep. Keeping it compulsory in it's current forum is useless. It just teaches people to hate learning the language and they'll forget it when they leave school.

That's why I suggested a reform in the curriculum while still keeping it compulsory

O'Coonassa

conchubhar1 wrote: »

are you completly oblivious to the huge increase in:


naoinraí
gaelscoileanna (bún and méanscoileanna)


yes?

Not at all and I applaud people for learning our former lingo second hand but by the time a kid gets to playschool they've already aquired their native tounge.

An gal gréine

In schools, the curriculum should be overhauled to ensure that the poetry books etc. should be abandoned and that the total emphasis would then be on the spoken language. If this was sucessful, the attention could be turned to the written word, later on.

conchubhar1

O'Coonassa wrote: »

Not at all and I applaud people for learning our former lingo second hand but by the time a kid gets to playschool they've already aquired their native tounge.

parents dont go at the last second a screw lets send him or her to an irish school - they have no irish but feck it anyway

of course they have pretty much been brought up with irish or more likely english and irish

conchubhar1

An gal gréine wrote: »

In schools, the curriculum should be overhauled to ensure that the poetry books etc. should be abandoned and that the total emphasis would then be on the spoken language. If this was sucessful, the attention could be turned to the written word, later on.

later on then would be when they leave school? theres no later on left

primary school teachers should be the ones getting a swift kick up the h to ole - thats where the standard should be set and then poetry etc should be easy, excpt the concepts and all that - but sure you get that in english poetry etc.

so ye

An gal gréine

conchubhar1 wrote: »

later on then would be when they leave school? theres no later on left

It's better than the "later on" we have now. If students outside the Gaelscoileanna gain a proficiency in it then surely they'll have a mind to read all about it.

conchubhar1

later on is after 8 years of learning - thats late eneough

stop the crap poetry in english then aswel

ColmDawson

I think the poetry on the English course is really good.

My mum is a primary school teacher and apparently the teaching of Irish has changed since I was there: the kids do spoken Irish from junior infants, but only begin writing it in (I think) second class.

It seems that that's more a mirror of how first languages are learned than the previous curriculum was (spoken first, then written).

An gal gréine

conchubhar1 wrote: »

stop the crap poetry in english then aswel

Why do we expect students to dissect and analyse poetry in Irish when they can hardly speak the language? You cant apply that standard to English poetry as students are not being TAUGHT the English language in the class.

If Irish was taught as foreign languages in Ireland are taught, I believe the results would improve dramatically.