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Distance Indicators Alongside Train Lines

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  • Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Why do we have to do everything the European bureaucrats tell us?
    Metrification is something we have agreed to, not something that has been imposed.

    Certainly in the UK, metrification pre-dates EEC membership.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Still off topic but this Wikipedia link says it all about metrication in the UK.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom

    I have to say the whole metric thing really gets my goat - quite apart from km/miles who the hell would know what the weather forecaster meant if they said that there had been 50.8mm of rainfall in an hour but they sure would know there had been a downpour if they were told 2 inches of rain had fallen.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Still off topic but this Wikipedia link says it all about metrication in the UK.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Kingdom

    I have to say the whole metric thing really gets my goat - quite apart from km/miles who the hell would know what the weather forecaster meant if they said that there had been 50.8mm of rainfall in an hour but they sure would know there had been a downpour if they were told 2 inches of rain had fallen.

    Anyone my age *should* be able to know what 50.8mm is straight off. We were taught solely through metric after all.

    I've a feeling I'm going to find out you're actually younger than me now though :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    I was 50 this year but am an incurable 'throwback' , a Euro sceptic and just for good measure - politically to the right of Attila the Hun! Sorry we seem to have drifted a long way from trackside markers or is that mile/kilometre posts. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    Speeds are in km on the speedos and have been since the DARTs in 1983 and everything else since. Only the old GM locos have mph displays.

    Line speeds are in mph.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Oh, both the Luas and DART have metre markings - mostly on the poles for the overhead power.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    Speeds are in km on the speedos and have been since the DARTs in 1983 and everything else since. Only the old GM locos have mph displays.

    The main display on railcars is in mph


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    Given that the country outside Ireland that Irish drivers are most likely to drive in is probably the UK which, even under the poxy Labour Govt is unlikely ever to switch over to kilometres, it would have made sense for Ireland to have stuck to miles too.
    Pick up a globe and stick a pin in it. Chances are if you don't hit water, you'll end up picking a country using km. I think really it's 'patriotism' to the mile rather than anything that's the cause of miles rather than km being used in Britain. In this instance it's not silly, irrelevant us doing our own thing, it's the silly irrelevant Brits. I don't really mind that they footdrag, though it would be handy if the north were to change to km. Maybe the Stormont Executive might look at it unilaterally if they can at some point, but hey I can imagine the response


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭interlocked


    MYOB wrote: »
    Explain what's wrong with every one of those posts, in turn, please.
    Certainly!
    I was on the Cork-Dublin train on Monday. I was looking out the window at the thirty one and a half miles from Dublin mark. The reason I know this was distance exactly was because as we were passing someone was painting the distance stone marker in black and white, which struck me as a complete and utter waste of time. I was wondering if there was any legitmate reason for these stone markers or was the employee just wasting their time?

    The original poster saw something that he didn't understand but was immediately willing to ascribe the action as a futile waste of time. As explained at length in the responses, mile posts are a fundamental part of the railway architecture, maintenance of them is not a complete and utter waste of time
    Navigation systems fail, new-ish drivers don't know local landmarks should they break down between stations...

    Similar markers are being added to all UK motorways and our toll motorways at the moment as it happens. Same reason.

    This is your quote, you state as a fact that newly qualified drivers are not conversant with the required route knowledge, by your rationale they would be completely lost at night or in fog without straining to see which milepost they are passing. By the same token do you expect drivers to report an incident as having occurred between the big red barn and the church outside Charleville. A qualified driver will know every yard of track that's he's passed to drive, that's his job
    The mile posts appear every quarter mile. The reason they exist is because on the old steam trains there was no speedometer so the train driver hadn't a clue how fast he was going.

    I can’t remember how to do it but by taking note of the amount of time (seconds) between the posts you can work out the average speed that you are travailing at (my dad used to do this all the time).

    You also know how many miles are left in your journey and when to slow down as you approach. Let’s say that Charlavile is 80 miles from Dublin. When you see that you are 84 miles from Dublin then you start to slow down.

    Its an old system and its outdated now but it’s a bit of fun for the enthusiast and I don’t see anything wrong with that. smile.gif

    So steam loco drivers drove with a stopwatch in their hand did they! That must have been interesting at night with mileposts on the other side of the cab:rolleyes:

    No, enthusiasts can do this behind a engine as described above , but GPS has made it fairly redundant now

    Mileposts have nothing to do with braking distances, that depends on the speed of the train, its weight, its braking capability., gradient weather, signal position etc
    If they're used for safety reasons, should these not be moderised, considering they're wrong?

    As already explained by others, they're not wrong.
    At least change them to show kilometres though. Miles are dead and old fashioned
    .


    I'll let Judgement Day answer that one, frankly it doesn't matter what distances they record as long as the people concerned in the railway, know and understand what they represent.

    BTW, there's 662 Mp's between Dublin-Cork alone, I'd love to hear the whinging at the complete and utter waste of money if Irish Rail decided to change tham to km's to keep some internet warriors happy.

    PS, My initial point wasn't really to do about mileposts, it's about how some people seems to be instant experts on things they know nothing about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    NedNew wrote: »
    At least change them to show kilometres though. Miles are dead and old fashioned.

    Ha! Tell that to Topaz whose latest on-site advertising at every station refers to Miles per gallon!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭Bogger77


    Why waste money when they continue to serve the purpose for which they were installed? Does the phrase 'a fetish with modernity' sound familiar. Mileposts and, indeed, miles are no more outdated than slips of paper for voting on. :D

    P.S. Given that the country outside Ireland that Irish drivers are most likely to drive in is probably the UK which, even under the poxy Labour Govt is unlikely ever to switch over to kilometres, it would have made sense for Ireland to have stuck to miles too. Why do we have to do everything the European bureaucrats tell us? We always seem do the stupid things and ignore important things like protecting the environment. Sorry for, yet again, wandering off topic. :)
    By changing from imperial or as I as a nationalist like to say US measurement system of miles and inches to metric system, there's a risk of rounding numbers.
    The was one of the main causes of the Mars climate Orbitor to fail in 1999, where a mix of the two systems were used. A similar confusion as a result of a change over in measuring systems was also responsible, in the main, for the Air Canda Flight 143 (Gimli Glider) incident, where a 767 ran out of fuel and became a glider.

    A change over for no reason, is not worth the risk of an incident occuring. The international airline industry uses feet for flight levels, and inchs/mercury for altitude air pressure measurements, they don't plan on changing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    interlock is correct in every word he says(could maybe put it across a wee bit nicer;)).
    i am a driver and the only time i use mile posts would be to report something or someone on the line.knowing where they are is nice to know stuff not need to know.
    as interlock says every driver is conversant with his route and know when to brake and where to brake fog or no fog.
    it would be catastrophic to convert them as this would lead to confusion or worse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Typewriter


    So steam loco drivers drove with a stopwatch in their hand did they!

    No they counted it's only a matter of seconds between each post.
    That must have been interesting at night with mileposts on the other side of the cab:rolleyes:
    The trains had lamps and a fireman handy.:rolleyes:
    No, enthusiasts can do this behind a engine as described above , but GPS has made it fairly redundant now
    Yes you can anyone can! You just have to know the maths equation, my dad would always do this when we were on the train, I used to be able to do this but I forget how and I cant ask my dad as he's years gone. Ask anyone on IRN and they'll tell you how it's done.
    Mileposts have nothing to do with braking distances, that depends on the speed of the train, its weight, its braking capability., gradient weather, signal position etc
    Yeah and HOW FAR AWAY FROM THE STATION YOU ARE!
    PS, My initial point wasn't really to do about mileposts, it's about how some people seems to be instant experts on things they know nothing about.
    Yeah I hate that too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    mile post dont tell you how far away the next station is,unless you know at what mile post it is located


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    This is your quote, you state as a fact that newly qualified drivers are not conversant with the required route knowledge, by your rationale they would be completely lost at night or in fog without straining to see which milepost they are passing. By the same token do you expect drivers to report an incident as having occurred between the big red barn and the church outside Charleville. A qualified driver will know every yard of track that's he's passed to drive, that's his job

    I'd expect qualified drivers to have a decent knowledge of exactly where 'between the big red barn and the church outside Charleville' is when contacting command. I'd not expect a new driver to - as someone who drives heavily as part of my profession (rather than a professional driver) I can state that that level of route knowledge takes years to develop. Do IE have drivers in training for a few years per route?


  • Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Typewriter


    mile post dont tell you how far away the next station is,unless you know at what mile post it is located
    .
    Let’s say that Charlavile is 80 miles from Dublin. When you see that you are 84 miles from Dublin then you start to slow down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    .

    Drivers use land marks rather than mile post as a guide to start slowing and will adjust depending on unit and conditions


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭interlocked


    Isn't this thread fascinating, in demonstrating how so much drivel can be posted on the internet as factual knowledge, by people who have no idea what they are talking about?
    quote=green_jesus;59953858]No they counted it's only a matter of seconds between each post.

    The trains had lamps and a fireman handy.:rolleyes:

    Yes you can anyone can! You just have to know the maths equation, my dad would always do this when we were on the train, I used to be able to do this but I forget how and I cant ask my dad as he's years gone. Ask anyone on IRN and they'll tell you how it's done.
    I agreed with you, you missed the comma after no! I know you can do it but I've never heard of any steam driver counting speed by mileposts, its just not practical. I've checked this with an ex steam fireman and he never heard of such a practice either, An awful lot of steam driving was done by instinct without speedometers, drivers could keep time by dint of sheer experience in knowing what type of running was required between sections.
    Yeah and HOW FAR AWAY FROM THE STATION YOU ARE!
    kingshankley has already refuted that, I have never known any driver of my acquantance to drive by mileposts, it just doesn't happen. There are no set distance from which you start braking, approaching a station, it depends on lots of very different variables including speed, brake force, type of brake,weight of train, gradient, condition of the railhead, signal siting snd so on

    and in response to MYOB, all drivers have to have developed very detailed route knowledge before they're passed out on a particular route, they're assigned a senior driver as a tutor in learning a particular road as part of their training, route knowledge is one of the most fundamental issues of train driving, how would they know braking distances, signal positioning etc otherwise.
    Yeah I hate that too.
    Exactly, so lets get back to the really serious issues on boards, such as which of the Seoige sisters you'd rattle faster than a runaway down the gullet:D


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    The trains had lamps and a fireman handy.:rolleyes:.

    Dear Lord. Have you ever seen the amount of light thrown out by a paraffin lamp with dodgily trimmed wick ? It throws out sweet all light. Even the original A-class (et all) only had marker lights for their first few years.

    Drivers used landmarks. The one that sticks in my mind is approaching Kildare from the south - you're near it (And Cherryville) when you passed under three biridges in fairly quick succession - at night that's fairly easy to hear.


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