Firefox has it a future?

ynotdu

Hi,
I use google.ie as my homepage and for over a week now it has heavily been promoting google chrome(so much for the clutter free homepage they pride themselves on)it is really bugging me and i was wondering does anybody know an email adress to tell google so?

Firefox is still included in the google pack but is not ticked for download by default as google chrome is.could firefox survive if google stop supporting them?

this may sound stupid but i have on a temporary basis reverted to ie7 as my browser as lots of videos i tried to play from viral sites ff tells me it needs additional plug-ins to play the media then searchs for it and tells me the plug in cannot be found.I am hoping this is just a short term thing and intend to return to ff if this is just a bug in the current version not a concerted effort by software providers to undermine ff.

besides the fact that I am a big supporter of open source software in principle,firefox as a secure browser is so far ahead of ie7 it is off the scale!

would like to hear others opinion,also if not an email adress somewhere that google pays heed to were I can object to google chrome being pushed into my face on my homepage.
thanks in advance.

Xavi6

Well if Firefox doesn't stop feckin crashing on me then it won't have any future as far as I'm concerned.

The latest version is a disaster.

croo

Switch to linux and you don't need to worry ... at least I see no adverts for chrome when I got to the google homepage. Since chrome is not available on linux that makes sense.

I also have no issue with crashes using FF - that's zero crashes not just few. I'm using version 3.0.8, but I'm running on linux maybe it's a windows issue. I remember back in the early 90s and I was a user of DR-DOS which was a much better DOS than MS-DOS and big competition for MS. When windows came along it was very unstable with DR-DOS and eventually most stopped using it. Of course it wasn't until many years later that it was revealed MS had actually programmed windows to randomly crash if it was used on DR-DOS. Perhaps the FF competition is getting to MS? It's so hard to tell because windows crashes so much anyway under normal use!

So switch to linux and kill two birds (no chrome advertising & no crashes) with one stone

ps. I hear from colleagues using os/x that chrome is very fast. Haven't heard about it's performance on windows but I suspect it is fast there too. I think one of its core enhancements is a new more efficient javascript machine and that is responsible for the performance increase.

ynotdu

when I got my first computer,I installed wubi/ubuntu based on linux,what appealed to me was no partition was needed for ubuntu(a south african guy who went as a space tourist to the space station funded it as a free OS for the 100$ laptop for the 3rd world,that never materialised)so it could be removed via add/remove programmes.
To be honest i found it boring compared to the flashing lights:) of windows.it had a bug were it did not recognise usernames&passwords on my first attempt,then i read this bug was fixed and istalled it again,worked great but boring interface to a newbie so i uninstalled it again:(

now i would like to install it again but the only version i can find is the one with the username bug!It is a a straightforward download,no cd needed.

my question is do you know a url were the bug free version is available?
thanks in advance.

ethernet

ynotdu wrote: »

when I got my first computer,I installed wubi/ubuntu based on linux,what appealed to me was no partition was needed for ubuntu(a south african guy who went as a space tourist to the space station funded it as a free OS for the 100$ laptop for the 3rd world,that never materialised)so it could be removed via add/remove programmes.
To be honest i found it boring compared to the flashing lights:) of windows.it had a bug were it did not recognise usernames&passwords on my first attempt,then i read this bug was fixed and istalled it again,worked great but boring interface to a newbie so i uninstalled it again:(

now i would like to install it again but the only version i can find is the one with the username bug!It is a a straightforward download,no cd needed.
my question is do you know a url were the bug free version is available?
thanks in advance.

That must have been a beta or, with a bug like that, an alpha. Were you using LDAP or something fancy? Really don't think it would have been released with a show-stopping bug like that.

9.04 is to be released this week (in two days' time). Download it from the site or have the CD sent to you (takes a few weeks) or pay to have the CD sent quicker.

On topic, I can't say I've had any issues with Firefox 3.x on OS X, Linux or Windows and have a few add-ons installed. Fingers crossed for 3.5.

croo

9.04 is to be released this week

That should make installation straight forward ok.

i found it boring compared to the flashing lights of windows

And switch on Compiz if & when you do
The default "earthy" feel is an acquired taste okay (although I have grown to like it) but between compiz, emerald & screenlets (never mind two whole UI managers KDE & Gnome) you can pretty much create any look you want.

a south african guy who went as a space tourist to the space station funded it as a free OS for the 100$ laptop for the 3rd world,that never materialised

I think the laptop did materialize (OLPC - One Laptop Per Child) but many of the countries it was aimed at didn't want linux. I guess you can't get bribed if the cost is $0! - so they made deals to install MS windows on the laptops instead. Of course the whole developing world growing up not knowing windows would have been a huge issue for MS!

I guess it's the same reason they provide free software to our education system. No need for bribes here though, our politicians understand the value of being the tax haven of choice for MS worldwide.

but the only version i can find is the one with the username bug!

I have no idea what that is either - I have never experience that.

ynotdu

ethernet wrote: »

That must have been a beta or, with a bug like that, an alpha. Were you using LDAP or something fancy? Really don't think it would have been released with a show-stopping bug like that.

9.04 is to be released this week (in two days' time). Download it from the site or have the CD sent to you (takes a few weeks) or pay to have the CD sent quicker.

On topic, I can't say I've had any issues with Firefox 3.x on OS X, Linux or Windows and have a few add-ons installed. Fingers crossed for 3.5.

Lol at the idea i was using something fancy,I did not even know how to use keyboard or cut&paste:)
the working version i got in the end was fine,just as i said it was not fancy enough for me in my innocence then:)

I requested the cd several times it never arriaved,even at that I am unclear if the cd would need a partition?or like the version i had would it be a programme I could remove from add/remove?

In my case a little knowledge is a dangerous thing:D

croo

ynotdu wrote: »

the version i had would it be a programme I could remove from add/remove?

I guess that is WUBI ( http://wubi-installer.org/ ). Not having windows I have never tried it so couldn't comment.

oscarBravo

croo wrote: »

I also have no issue with crashes using FF - that's zero crashes not just few. I'm using version 3.0.8, but I'm running on linux maybe it's a windows issue.

Using 3.0.8 on Ubuntu 8.10 (64-bit), and finding it pretty crashy.

That said, my experience to date with 8.10 has been less than stellar, with several apps being flakey. I'm thinking of doing a scratch install of 9.04 to see if it behaves any better.

It would really, really help if Adobe finally bothered to release a 64-bit Flash binary for Linux.

croo

oscarBravo wrote: »

It would really, really help if Adobe finally bothered to release a 64-bit Flash binary for Linux.

A few years back I installed 64bit Centos and ran into the 32bit library problem, so I only install 64bit on servers now.

oscarBravo wrote: »

Using 3.0.8 on Ubuntu 8.10 (64-bit), and finding it pretty crashy.

I was considering 64bits for Jaunty but maybe I'll still to 32 bit ... I have 6GB in my machine & only 3.5GB recognized though
And memory is getting so cheap, it's tempting to really fill it up and then 64bits is really needed.

oscarBravo wrote: »

That said, my experience to date with 8.10 has been less than stellar, with several apps being flakey. I'm thinking of doing a scratch install of 9.04 to see if it behaves any better.

I must say, I have never found the upgrade satisfactory. I nearly always end up doing a fresh install. And I make the point now of separating the var & home onto their own partitions for this purpose but it does mean installing all my applications of choice again. And while I try to note all the tweaks I make & like but there is always something...

oscarBravo

croo wrote: »

A few years back I installed 64bit Centos and ran into the 32bit library problem, so I only install 64bit on servers now.

I actually can't think of a problem library other than Flash. They really, really need to get their act together. I mean, how hard is it to cross-compile to a 64-bit architecture?

I was considering 64bits for Jaunty but maybe I'll still to 32 bit ... I have 6GB in my machine & only 3.5GB recognized though
And memory is getting so cheap, it's tempting to really fill it up and then 64bits is really needed.

I have 6GB - I use a lot of virtual machines, and I don't think I could cope with 3.5GB.

I must say, I have never found the upgrade satisfactory. I nearly always end up doing a fresh install. And I make the point now of separating the var & home onto their own partitions for this purpose but it does mean installing all my applications of choice again. And while I try to note all the tweaks I make & like but there is always something...

I hear ya. My first foray into 8.10 was an upgrade, and it was a catastrophe, so I backed up and reinstalled. This time out, I created a /home partition. I should probably create a /var next time too.

matrim

oscarBravo wrote: »

Using 3.0.8 on Ubuntu 8.10 (64-bit), and finding it pretty crashy.

That said, my experience to date with 8.10 has been less than stellar, with several apps being flakey. I'm thinking of doing a scratch install of 9.04 to see if it behaves any better.

It would really, really help if Adobe finally bothered to release a 64-bit Flash binary for Linux.

I use the same. Firefox itself works fine and never crashes for me. The problem for me is the flash plugin. It can work fine for the first 3 or 4 flash videos that I view, then all I get is a grey box where the flash is supposed to be until I restart firefox.

I also wouldn't upgrade. I've tried it twice now and it broke too many things. I would only do a fresh install.

Which is annoying because it takes ages to reconfigure / install everything to the way you want it, especially given the fact that I use a number of programs that I build from source. It's one of the main things that I wish they's sort out.

kippy

I have to say, with Google backing Chrome now and pushing it no end through all of their sites, google, youtube etc and its better interoperability with google services I can see Firefox taking a back seat.
To be honest I use Chrome for gmail,youtube and google services in general and firefox for everything else.
The addons in firefox are still a great addition to have over other browsers and theres no way in the world chrome will ever support an "add block" type add in.
I suppose different strokes for different folks.

Yesterday my firefox started crashing for no apparent reason, same again today. First time ever I actually had trouble with it. I upgraded the cooliris addin yesterday morning so this could be the issue. Xavi6, a lot of time the addins are what causes the problem and the timing here would make me suspect thats what is causing the issue for me.

croo

But since the V8 javascript engine that gives chrome its speed is open source aren't we likely to see it in mozilla - and so level the field again?

ynotdu

croo wrote: »

But since the V8 javascript engine that gives chrome its speed is open source aren't we likely to see it in mozilla - and so level the field again?

something is going on,i,m still getting an install google chrome banner on google.ie,now not even an x to delete it and as i mentioned before firefox was ticked in the google pack for download by default but no longer is,add to that the number of software developers not bothering to be compatible with firefox hmmmmmmmmmmmm

google it seems to me dont know when to stop anymore,just expanding and expanding for what at times seems like the heck of it at the expense of other less giant companies,what is their goal?almost total internet dominance in all fields?everything their founders said they would not be:(
are they becoming an extension of the office of homeland security since 9/11?

even if google chrome gets a reputation as the best browser ever i will not install it&if i keep getting a nag to download chrome i will stop using google.ie as my homepage.

just imagine if microsoft and google are the only two players standing when all this is over,hell they may as well just tag us:mad:

Why not use firefox start as hompage (firefox default) has less clutter.

ynotdu

Hi sisk could you elaborate a bit ?anytime i installed ff ,google was my homepage by default,i tended to use it for its reputation as a very secure browser and because the internet belongs to everybody, because it is open source.for a temporary time i have stopped using it as software providers were not keeping up with its updates.i only added a handful of add-ons as they were needed anyway,never tried to jizz it up very much from any release default.i not into changing themes loads of add-ons etc but think its great that those who want to can!

if i understand you ya mean firefox has a search engine other than google?how do i set it as my default homepage?
if question is stupid please excuse.
I just want a secure browser with a good search engine

Its still google.ie but a firefoxed version.

Heres what i mean
http://www.google.ie/firefox?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

croo

ynotdu wrote: »

if i understand you ya mean firefox has a search engine other than google?

Google.ie is just a webpage! There is the quick search box (top right) okay but you can use nearly any search engine with that.

ynotdu wrote: »

how do i set it as my default homepage?

Go to the webpage you wish to open by default when you open firefox, it doesn't have to be a search engine page! It might be boards.ie
Then select Edit/Preferences from the Firefox dropdowns. Select the "Main" section and you should see the default or "home page". You can enter the address of the webpage you want directly or select use current pages.
Note that is plural! It is possible using tabs to have more than one page open and if you select "use current pages" all will open automatically when you start firefox.

ynotdu wrote: »

I just want a secure browser with a good search engine

Like I said, the search engine is just another webpage ... you can use which ever you wish, it's not restricted by the browser you use.

ynotdu

thanks guys informative and useful.
thanks for going to the bother of your swift replys!
and for being so clear in your answers.

oscarBravo

oscarBravo wrote: »

Using 3.0.8 on Ubuntu 8.10 (64-bit), and finding it pretty crashy.

That said, my experience to date with 8.10 has been less than stellar, with several apps being flakey. I'm thinking of doing a scratch install of 9.04 to see if it behaves any better.

Just to update on this: the short answer is "hell, yes". 9.04 is (so far) as stable as can be, and Firefox 3.0.9 hasn't let me down yet.

I haven't really stress-tested it yet, but I will.

Kinetic^

I've been using Firefox on Ubuntu 9.04 and Cruncheee and have had no problems, it's 3.0.9 that I'm on. I tried the Chrome hack to get it to work on Ubuntu but it was absolutely awful, very slow. When I had Vista I used both Firefox and Chrome but until the later catches up with addons then it will be a while before it has a large market share.

PogMoThoin

Firefox 3.0.10 for windows came out today, I've just been updated there now

croo

I used both Firefox and Chrome but until the later catches up with addons then it will be a while before it has a large market share.

Yeah, but if you wanted to deploy an application across the web then a super fast javascript engine would help with making the UI feel more responsive. I've heard that used with an application using an ajax enabled UI, the improvement is very noticeable. So might be useful for that... but I don't have windows so I cannot say. Maybe this is an excuse to buy a mac! Why are macs so popular with open source users (I know numerous FOSS developer types who use macs) ... and yet macs are perhaps even less open than wintels!

Bonzodog

oh, yes FF has a very good future. I am using 3.5b4 on Archlinux, no crashes, but flash tends to suck CPU on it.

dueyfinster

Bonzodog wrote: »

but flash tends to suck CPU on it.

Agreed... Sooner we move on from flash the better... I think Firefox has an uncertain future but in the medium term (through 2013 or so) it looks good; the only way is up in terms of market share with MS desperately trying to catch up..

BUT it needs a serious re-architecture to remain the browser of choice for l33t users in terms of speed; (as was the case with Google in the early days) if your l33t users move, it's only a matter of time until your eventual 'casual' market move also... Microsoft is taking the pain of this transition now; so let's see how they pull it off!

ynotdu

A protracted war between authors of two of the most popular add-ons for the Firefox browser has prompted calls for changes in the way extensions are written, after one of them admitted he added camouflaged code that disabled features in the other's program.

In a heart-felt apology posted Monday, Giorgio Maone admitted that he added a small piece of code that worked around the EasyList filter used by Adblock Plus. The code, which was obscured so it wouldn't be noticed by people who maintain the Adblock filter, was designed to ensure that commercial ads carried on Maone's websites continued to be displayed on browsers that use the popular ad-blocking extension.

"So I had this crazy idea of retaliating against EasyList 'from the inside', and in my blindness I did not grasp that I was really retaliating against my own users and the Mozilla community at large," Maone wrote. "Even worse, my hacker attitude led me to dig directly in the low level Adblock Plus internals where filters are enforced."

The latest version of NoScript, which Maone pushed out over the weekend, has removed all the Adblock-blocking code.

The covert arms race between maintainers of the two add-ons has prompted some soul searching at Mozilla, where people responsible for approving extensions laid out several proposed changes. Specifically, each add-on would have to explicitly spell out all changes it makes to any other add-ons. All changes would have to be made on an opt-in basis, and when the extension is removed, all the changes would have to be undone.

Maone said he added the anti-Adblock Plus functionality on Friday, after discovering the people who maintain EasyList had modified the filter so it blocked not just ads on Maone's websites, but all scripting languages as well. This made it impossible for Adblock Plus users to get updates for NoScript or FlashGot, another Firefox extension Maone maintains, he said.

The move by EasyList maintainer Ares2 to block NoScript and FlashGot followed several weeks of back-and-forth maneuvering between the two sides. Maone said he had long added several scripts to his websites designed to used a publicly known Adblock Plus bug to work around the EasyList filters. Over the span of 30 EasyList updates, the filters grew ever more aggressive, eventually targeting Maone's sites by domain name.

"As you can imagine I was quite pissed off then," Maone wrote.

The mea culpa came after Wladimir Palant, creator of Adblock Plus, publicly excoriated Maone in a post that began "Attention NoScript Users." The posts provide rare, behind-the-scenes accounts of the personal foibles of two of the better Firefox extensions.

NoScript has become a major staple of security-minded users everywhere because it allows them to control what sites get to run in javascript, Adobe Flash, and other potentially dangerous scripting languages on their browsers. Adblock Plus has also proved popular because it makes it easy to turn off the ads that prove to be distracting or that come from distributors whose javascript- and Flash-based ads can't be trusted.

In this case, it would appear both authors put personal grievances ahead of their users. Palant has yet to admit that it was probably a bad idea for Adblock Plus to disrupt NoScript updates, so we'll say it for him. For his part, Maone has bent over backward to apologize.

"I beg you to accept my most sincere apologies and believe in my shame and contrition," he wrote. "I know I've done something horrible, creating a scandal like the Mozilla community never had faced before and betraying the trust of many many people. Please help me to repair the damage I've caused with my errors."



Source:theregister

croo

wow - I hadn't noticed this!
And it seems it wasn't just "a moment" of madness but a prolonged battle to beat the adblocker. I use noscript and had become sceptical that nearly everyday there were new updates and every update resulted in opening the noscript homepage. So of late I simply skipped the update - can't say I noticed the ads.

But in a search for a NoScript replacement-which there seems to be currently none but which I think will change now (it's GPL'd so a fork I would think is ensured)-anyway, while we await, I discovered that we can stop NoScript redirecting to the homepage on every update by opening; about:config and toggling off the noscript.firstRunRedirection preference.

ethernet

Am using both add-ons. Was very annoying to have so many updates. At least Mozilla have laid down some regulations now.

An Fear Aniar

I'm using Firefox 3.6a in Ubuntu 9.04. Working grand. The switch from 3.0 to 3.5 will be a big step up in performance and speed.

.

croo

>I'm using Firefox 3.6a in Ubuntu 9.04
Was that in the repositories or did you do a "manual" install?

> The switch from 3.0 to 3.5 will be a big step up in performance and speed.
Very interesting.
Well I haven't actually seen chrome at work, but I understood from colleagues that its javascript engine was very fast. They (my colleagues) were working on an ajax (zk) based web UI for a open source project we are involved with, and claimed the performance improvement of the V8 javascript engine was noticeable to the eye when using this ajax interface - so it sounded like a huge increase... often these performance improvements are only noticeable in a benchmark.

Anyway, I was thinking that FireFox might just implement V8 too! But it seems they have refactored their own javascript engine and come up with a new an improved version that beats even v8.
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2008/09/new-firefox-javascript-engine-is-faster-than-chromes-v8.ars

So this is all excellent news. Competition! I find google's dominance just a little disconcerting.

drim3r

Agree with your opinion. In fact, more competition is better for everybody. I hate how people still surf with ie6, and if you delete ie icon they think there's no internet :S Firefox is better for me 'cause has a lot of extensions. And it has the community support. I think Firefox has a good future.

And i noticed that there's a beta from Prisma. An add-on/stand-alone application that turns web sites into desktop windows, has hit a 1.0 release, promising to let you monitor and launch sites like Gmail from your Mac dock or Windows tray. It's a good copy from an Opera gadget. It's good that Mozilla copy best features from others browsers. For this:

- I think if Mozilla could rebuild it javascript engine for a light work, could be so better than chrome.
- And independent process for every tab like Chrome. In fact sometimes (almost never but there's a pair of times) when Firefox crashed caused by a web visited and i lost my downloads and i have to reopen Firefox and start with the download again. It is a bad experience.

ynotdu

So this is all excellent news. Competition! I find google's dominance just a little disconcerting.(part of a post by croo)


Hi croo,as i said in a previous post i totally agree that google dont know when to stop.

I downloaded windows 7RC,made a bootable cd and am running it now.

The good news for Firefox is the RC(so far so good,I did not need a clean installation,just the upgrade version as that is possible if overwriting Vista,Yayyyyyyyyyyy no problems with drivers,all hardware still working!)

back on topic windows7RC only supports IE8 or Firefox(no mention of Chrome etc)

So may,be microsoft agree that google are looking for world dominance!

something microsoft would not dream of!:)

croo

oscarBravo wrote: »

It would really, really help if Adobe finally bothered to release a 64-bit Flash binary for Linux.

Well I got a new notebook so decided to install 64bits ... and so far so good. re: the 64bit flash for FF I followed the following link
http://nxadm.wordpress.com/2009/04/26/install-64-bit-adobe-flash-player-on-ubuntu-904/
to painlessly install 64bit flash .. just thought I'd pass that on!

oscarBravo

Nice one, croo - that seems to be working perfectly. I'll be curious to see how it compares on stability.

Pygmalion

ynotdu wrote: »

when I got my first computer,I installed wubi/ubuntu based on linux,what appealed to me was no partition was needed for ubuntu(a south african guy who went as a space tourist to the space station funded it as a free OS for the 100$ laptop for the 3rd world,that never materialised)

Wrong, Ubuntu was around long before the OLPC project, and AFAIK was never intended to be the operating system of it.

Also I do think Firefox has a future, for one Google never seemed that interested in making a Linux/Mac port of it, they seem to have just promised to port it after people complained about it, these ports were always very far behind and lacking in features, and I doubt Google will do any more than needed to keep people from bitching too much.
So Firefox will always be the browser of choice for these OSes. (Opera is pretty good too for all OSes, but it doesn't have as much extensions or as good an extension system, and many distros don't offer up to date packages, or any at all in some cases, in addition to simply not being preferred by many)