irish citizenship/naturalisation

chancer_007

I'm Irish, wife s.american.

we meet all criteria,work,time in country etc..

just wondering has anyone gone through the whole process?
whats the experiences?do they make you jump through hoops?
total cost taking everything into account?

form8 mentions Sworn Affidavit, etc...the smallest details

thanks in advance..

Our man in Havana

You will be waiting years. Cost is around €1000.

Make sure you have a tax return for every year of residence. That's where they go to town.

ihatepatkenny

Related to this, I was wondering if anyone knows whether it's easier to get irish citizenship through marriage vs naturalisation. My husband is a foreigdner and we sent in the app for naturalisation once he'd been here for 5 years. Were coming up on our 3rd year of marriage so I'm wondering whether we should scrap the naturalisation app and apply for it through marriage (we've been told it will take 24 months plus to get the naturalisation app processed). Thanks in advance!

Our man in Havana

The citizenship through marriage is now gone. You have to go through the full naturalisation process. There are no shortcuts anymore.

r14

There's no absolute right to citizenship through marriage but if you're married to an irish citizen the process is a bit easier/quicker.

Details here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_marriage

Our man in Havana

It is just as difficult as for any non citizen.

Why on earth do they need bank statements etc?

Carawaystick

Bond-007 wrote: »

Why on earth do they need bank statements etc?

Yeah, if the minister for Finance doesn't have bank accounts, how do they expect joe soap to have one.....

johnfás

950 euro is a bit much isn't it? We should get rid of the fee, introduce a test and citizenship classes and encourage people who are here to become citizens and value their citizenship rather than making it another form of taxation.

Our man in Havana

johnfás wrote: »

950 euro is a bit much isn't it? We should get rid of the fee, introduce a test and citizenship classes and encourage people who are here to become citizens and value their citizenship rather than making it another form of taxation.

€950 is an insult. The fee used to be €127 for a marriage and a short form but the govt scrapped that.

I know quite a few people who are EU nationals living here permanently and they have told me they would never pay those sorts of fees and subject themselves to such harassment as producing tax records dating back 10 to 15 years old. They would rather visit their embassies every 10 years to renew their passports.

It would appear that a person not working or in receipt of benefits will be refused citizenship.

I agree that a citizenship test and citizenship classes would be the way forward rather than analysing years and years of tax returns.

ihatepatkenny

@Bond-007: Do they really look back that many years for tax returns? We've only been asked for the past year's P21 so far...

golum

A person can apply for citizenship by naturalisation after 5 years legal residence in the State. The period of legal residence is three years in the case of a person married to an Irish citizen.
Bank statements, P60s etc are to prove that the person is employed or has a a source of income. The amount of documents is normally not excessive. Unless a person is self-employed there should not be any major issues about tax compliance, as tax issues will be apparent from a P60.
A previous poster stated that it seems that those in receipt of benefits will be refused citizenship. This is the case, and is justified, in my view. I am not aware of any country in which foreign citizens who have not worked, payed tax, and rely on welfare are granted citizenship.

A citizenship test is a good idea, and should also contain a language component. Proposals for same are contained in the Immigration Bill 2006

Our man in Havana

ihatepatkenny wrote: »

@Bond-007: Do they really look back that many years for tax returns? We've only been asked for the past year's P21 so far...

My partner was told a few years back that they needed a tax return for each year of residence in Ireland. Maybe things have changed.

Our man in Havana

golum wrote: »

A previous poster stated that it seems that those in receipt of benefits will be refused citizenship. This is the case, and is justified, in my view. I am not aware of any country in which foreign citizens who have not worked, payed tax, and rely on welfare are granted citizenship.

If a person is resident here over 10 years and has worked and has paid their dues and through no fault of their own looses his/her job will he or she not get citizenship? I agree that layabouts etc should not but if the person has fallen on hard times they should not be penalised for it.

A citizenship test is a good idea, and should also contain a language component. Proposals for same are contained in the Immigration Bill 2006

Agree 100% with you there.

Dandelion6

Bond-007 wrote: »

If a person is resident here over 10 years and has worked and has paid their dues and through no fault of their own looses his/her job will he or she not get citizenship? I agree that layabouts etc should not but if the person has fallen on hard times they should not be penalised for it.

Yes this is the problem. I have a friend who was let go from her job while she was waiting for her long term residency application to be approved (a process that can take 18-24 months). She could not get another job while waiting for that application to be approved because she would need a work permit and the Department is no longer granting new work permits in any sector that she would be qualified for; plus she lives in a rural area where jobs are scarce enough to begin with. She lived off her savings for as long as she could but finally had to go on the dole, just for a few months until her residency application was finally approved. She's now working again but because of those few months her chances of getting citizenship are down the tubes. It really doesn't seem fair to me.

Also, the system provides an incentive for people who do need assistance not to apply for it, which you might say is fair enough if it's just them but what if they have young children?

Ayankabroad

I just came out the other side of the process. Took over 2 years and had to resubmit the application three times for very small details...My wife signed it on a different day than I did...Notary crossed out 1 word in the affidavit. Took intervention from my local TD to get it finalised. Once you get everything done you have to pay an additiona €950 on top of all other expenses.

fattypatty

Spouses of Irish citizens can apply after 3 years of marriage, but its not an auto entitlement anymore like it was before 2005. There case will be assessed just like a work permit holder case will be assessed (who has to wait for 5 years before he/she can apply).

Being of good character (not known to gardai for misdemeanours) + not being burden on the state (dole) is the main point in getting the citizenship.

Citizenship tests, language test, culture test they are all good ideas and nobody would have a problem in attending/doing so. Even the current fees of 1000 euros moved up from 127 euros isn't a problem.

The biggest problem is the bleeding time it takes from application to decision. Currently it stipulates 24 months on INIS website, but in actual cases it is more than or upto 3 years. Across the pond turnaround time is 7-8 months with twice as many applications.

blueythebear

fattypatty wrote: »

Spouses of Irish citizens can apply after 3 years of marriage, but its not an auto entitlement anymore like it was before 2005. There case will be assessed just like a work permit holder case will be assessed (who has to wait for 5 years before he/she can apply).

Being of good character (not known to gardai for misdemeanours) + not being burden on the state (dole) is the main point in getting the citizenship.

Citizenship tests, language test, culture test they are all good ideas and nobody would have a problem in attending/doing so. Even the current fees of 1000 euros moved up from 127 euros isn't a problem.

The biggest problem is the bleeding time it takes from application to decision. Currently it stipulates 24 months on INIS website, but in actual cases it is more than or upto 3 years. Across the pond turnaround time is 7-8 months with twice as many applications.

In fairness to the INIS, the timeframe they stipulate is not far off. The time is currently just over 24 months from the acknowledgment that your application has been accepted.

One problem is that they list the info they require on the website/forms and then they request other information that they never previously requested. Sorting that out takes some time and then they can be really pedantic about the paperwork too. Also, they'll ask for the same documents several times!

I agree with the above poster that the main problem is the time taken for applications to be processed. The issue with this is that the relevant section is completely uncontactable for inquiries (except for the phonelines which are open between the hours of 955am and 1000am on any thursday that falls on the 30th of the month only or similar) .

If you're unsure of what is required for the application, you're forced to send it in regardless as you can't get any guidance. Then time is taken up in the INIS sifting through the paperwork and having to send it back due to some minor issue. It can be very frustrating, I'm sure on both sides!

Dandelion6

blueythebear wrote: »

In fairness to the INIS, the timeframe they stipulate is not far off. The time is currently just over 24 months from the acknowledgment that your application has been accepted.

In my office we constantly deal with cases that take well over 24 months. Upwards of 30 in many cases.

Then when the application is approved, there can be up to a six month wait for a District Court date to take the naturalisation oath.

And once that's done, another month or so to get the naturalisation certificate.

"24 months" is a bad joke.

The.Russian.one

Hi,
Thank you everyone for honest infos here.
I still have some questions to ask you guys. So..
I am a citizen of EU (latvia), but I really love Ireland and Irish people and I want to become an Irish citizen through naturalisation. I came to Ireland in June or July 2004. I've been living and legally working continuously for the past 6 years in Ireland. And I still do work. The thing is that I threw away or lost my P60 and my bank statements for the year 2004, and my P21/P60 for the years 2005/2006 are in terrible condition (torn). I do not have my bank statements for the year 2004, 2005. I also changed A LOT of places where I lived and I don't think I can prove that I've lived on those addresses- because it says that I need 3 types of prove of addresses I lived in. Another thing is that I was born in the Soviet Union which, unfortunately, doesn't NOT EXIST enymore!:( and my name in my current latvian passport is different from my real name in my soviet Birth certificate because of language differences! I'd also like to keep my real name which is in my original Birth cert. but not like it is in my current latvian passport.

And finally maybe anyone can recommend a solicitor which can go through the whole process of Naturalisation for me? and how much would that cost?


Thank you so much:pac:

The.Russian.one

Hi,
Thank you everyone for honest infos here.
I still have some questions to ask you guys. So..
I am a citizen of EU (latvia), but I really love Ireland and Irish people and I want to become an Irish citizen through naturalisation. I came to Ireland in June or July 2004. I've been living and legally working continuously for the past 6 years in Ireland. And I still do work. The thing is that I threw away or lost my P60 and my bank statements for the year 2004, and my P21/P60 for the years 2005/2006 are in terrible condition (torn). I do not have my bank statements for the year 2004, 2005. I also changed A LOT of places where I lived and I don't think I can prove that I've lived on those addresses- because it says that I need 3 types of prove of addresses I lived in. Another thing is that I was born in the Soviet Union which, unfortunately, doesn't NOT EXIST enymore! and my name in my current latvian passport is different from my real name in my soviet Birth certificate because of language differences! I'd also like to keep my real name which is in my original Birth cert. but not like it is in my current latvian passport.

And finally maybe anyone can recommend a solicitor which can go through the whole process of Naturalisation for me? and how much would that cost?


Thank you so much

Dandelion6

The only reason I can think of for anyone to need a solicitor for naturalisation is if you were here illegally for a period of time or have something else in your past that could potentially doom your application such as a criminal record. Otherwise it's a completely needless expense.

A free one-off appointment with the Immigrant Council should be enough to resolve all the difficulties you've identified.

FreudianSlippers

Carawaystick wrote: »

Yeah, if the minister for Finance doesn't have bank accounts, how do they expect joe soap to have one.....

I have to hand it to you for a literal lol on this end.

The.Russian.one wrote: »

Hi,
Thank you everyone for honest infos here.
I still have some questions to ask you guys. So..
I am a citizen of EU (latvia), but I really love Ireland and Irish people and I want to become an Irish citizen through naturalisation. I came to Ireland in June or July 2004. I've been living and legally working continuously for the past 6 years in Ireland. And I still do work. The thing is that I threw away or lost my P60 and my bank statements for the year 2004, and my P21/P60 for the years 2005/2006 are in terrible condition (torn). I do not have my bank statements for the year 2004, 2005. I also changed A LOT of places where I lived and I don't think I can prove that I've lived on those addresses- because it says that I need 3 types of prove of addresses I lived in. Another thing is that I was born in the Soviet Union which, unfortunately, doesn't NOT EXIST enymore! and my name in my current latvian passport is different from my real name in my soviet Birth certificate because of language differences! I'd also like to keep my real name which is in my original Birth cert. but not like it is in my current latvian passport.

And finally maybe anyone can recommend a solicitor which can go through the whole process of Naturalisation for me? and how much would that cost?


Thank you so much

Personally, I agree with Dandelion6 on this aspect. Once you are from the EU, here legally, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to deal with your embassy or the immigrant council support services to have this clarified for you. I don't really see a reason for you to get a solicitor based on the info you've given here.
As for your name, I'm honestly not sure what the provisions regarding names are, but I'd imagine that an Anglicised version of your name would suffice (if you mean your name is on your birth cert in русский язык form?).

Thoie

The.Russian.one wrote: »

The thing is that I threw away or lost my P60 and my bank statements for the year 2004, and my P21/P60 for the years 2005/2006 are in terrible condition (torn). I do not have my bank statements for the year 2004, 2005.

The Revenue should be able to provide you with copies of missing documents - just phone them.

Your bank will be able to send you copies of missing bank statements, but may charge you for this. Find out from the INIS what format they want these in - if they'll accept a printout of records on plain paper the bank might do this for free. If they want proper "statement" paper there'll probably be a charge.

ayumi

well cant the system become better,
like on a computer the add all the details of all the people applying for citizenship then send it to the minister and he looks at each one and types on the page of each person approved or not approved.
the page has everything about the person.
this way it will be faster to reply to applicants.
this is only a suggestion

The.Russian.one

Tank your everyone for help and valuablr advice!!!

Samleim

Me and my husband he is an EU member and living in ireland for the last 10 years want to know if i can apply for naturalisation throu marriage and would it be same form as on inis form 8 pdf

Dandelion6

Samleim wrote: »

Me and my husband he is an EU member and living in ireland for the last 10 years want to know if i can apply for naturalisation throu marriage and would it be same form as on inis form 8 pdf

There is no such thing as naturalisation through marriage to an EU citizen. If you've been living in Ireland for at least five years you can apply for naturalisation in the ordinary way ie on the basis of residency.

blueythebear

Dandelion6 wrote: »

There is no such thing as naturalisation through marriage to an EU citizen. If you've been living in Ireland for at least five years you can apply for naturalisation in the ordinary way ie on the basis of residency.

In the meantime, apply for permanent residency on the basis of your marriage under Article 16 of 2004/38 Citizenship Directive. This would have to be issued within 6 months as opposed to Citizenship which takes at least 2 years...

alex73

Haddockman wrote: »

You will be waiting years. Cost is around €1000.

Make sure you have a tax return for every year of residence. That's where they go to town.

It took me about 6 months start to finish. And it does not cost 1000 euros.

If you are married and are living here for x numbers of years its a lot easier.

Dandelion6

alex73 wrote: »

It took me about 6 months start to finish. And it does not cost 1000 euros.

Are you talking about citizenship or residency? Citizenship costs €950 unless you're a refugee, minor or widow(er) of an Irish citizen. And it actually takes about three years. Either you're talking about a different procedure or you got it a long time ago.

If you are married and are living here for x numbers of years its a lot easier.

If you're married to an Irish citizen for at least three years the residency requirement is relaxed (three years instead of five, and anywhere in the 32 Counties) but other than that it's the same.

Maybe you're talking about the old post-nuptial naturalisation scheme... that was abolished five years ago.

Our man in Havana

Those were the figures I was quoted. Approx €1000 and a five year waiting period. Maybe things have improved in the meantime?
Seeing as we are EU citizens we were advised not to bother.