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Difference between public and private education -

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  • 19-04-2009 4:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭


    I've come across someone who transferred from DIT to Griffith college, and I'm just curious why is this taking place, especially during recession.

    As Griffith College is a private college, who are your lecturers? I'm not asking for names here ;) Are they people who are working in the industry and teaching part-time OR are they full-time lecturers and professors?

    What's the difference between learning in a public college like DIT and private institution like Griffith college? Is the tuition actually better? I'm sure that a few people have transferred to this college, given its reputation.

    I'm asking this because as a product design student, I'd like to give quick workshops for computing or interior design students, when I'll graduate. I'd just like to raise awareness of good design practise, as I see that private college students should not be cut off from the same ideas, matters and issues that are discussed in DIT and UCD, etc.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    I moved from DIT to Griffith, Engineering to Photography.... big leap in course, not in teaching... I su[ppose maybe its just my course, the lecturers are more personal, its more relaxed, nicer crowd there too, less of the silly idiots just riding the free fees pony


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭techguy


    Hi There..

    I did Electronic engineering in CIT for 2 years (dropped out) before I went to GCD to do Computer Science.

    I immediately saw a huge difference. Griffith was so much more professional and organized. There was so much more structure to the course and the lecturers were a lot friendlier and more approachable.

    Most of the lecturers in the Computing faculty teach full time afaik and most have PHDs while others have a Masters. Griffith has a good rep and the standard is pretty high. We often get quality assurance questionaires about our modules and lecturers. This is very important if they want to convince people to pay the fees..

    I'm not tarring all colleges with one brush but I think the tuition in Griffith is a lot better than in CIT.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    I've been to DIT and Griffith. I studied computing in both colleges.

    I noticed two big differences between both colleges -

    1. The standard of student in Griffith college was very poor. For example, people who cannot program whatsoever somehow made it to fourth year. In DIT they would have been gone after first year.

    2. Griffith also expected very little from the students. I was amazed by how clueless the majority of the students around me were, but the lecturers seemed to think this was normal.

    Saying all that, I did like the college, but the standard of education isn't the best. Certainly compared to DIT, I thought the standard was very low, and DIT wasn't exactly rocket science!

    I agree with the other posters that the lecturers in Griffith are nicer. They are much more willing to spend time with you, and are much more 'human'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭experiMental


    I moved from DIT to Griffith, Engineering to Photography.... ... I suppose maybe its just my course............ nicer crowd there too, less of the silly idiots just riding the free fees pony

    So this is completely the opposite of what I was thinking about private colleges - and for the better. Thanks for your opinions.

    It looks like there will be a right crowd for giving workshops to there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,946 ✭✭✭red_ice


    I moved from DIT to Griffith, Engineering to Photography.... big leap in course, not in teaching... I su[ppose maybe its just my course, the lecturers are more personal, its more relaxed, nicer crowd there too, less of the silly idiots just riding the free fees pony

    They would want to be for the cost of it. The college is a complete sham and is run by complete retards. the lectureres know the bare minimum other than 1/2 of them.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭techguy


    red_ice wrote: »
    They would want to be for the cost of it. The college is a complete sham and is run by complete retards. the lectureres know the bare minimum other than 1/2 of them.

    Do you genuinely think that?? I'm curious, what is your relationship with the college? What course were you involved in?

    I think the college is ran extremely well..Management are constantly striving for bigger and better!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭Rabeile31


    red_ice wrote: »
    They would want to be for the cost of it. The college is a complete sham and is run by complete retards. the lectureres know the bare minimum other than 1/2 of them.


    I attended NUIG for a year and studied law i started a new law course in Griffith and i find a big difference with everything...

    its much smaller, the college ans class size which makes it more personal with the teaching staff...

    the quality of teaching is excellent some lecturers are practising BL or solicitors and in my own opinion i find that the teachers that are not solicitors are even better:)

    the faculty staff are very friendly and approachable and if there is any problems they are very helpful

    i cannot recommend Griffith College enough!

    i find the fee's are difficult to pay, i have a loan to cover it but i have no regrets for the price of the course each year it is well worth paying for what you get out of it


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    red_ice wrote: »
    They would want to be for the cost of it. The college is a complete sham and is run by complete retards. the lectureres know the bare minimum other than 1/2 of them.

    just a heads up, opinions are one thing, name and shame best left to pm if asked, keep it all nice up on forum.

    Personally my dept are great, bend over backwards for you and even allow access to facilities during the summer break, really cool of them... worth every penny


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    red_ice wrote: »
    They would want to be for the cost of it. The college is a complete sham and is run by complete retards. the lectureres know the bare minimum other than 1/2 of them.

    The lecturers are a mixed bunch, but you get that in every college.

    For example, I remember a number of my lecturers in DIT being clueless and totally disinterested in their job. Whereas I met some extremely motivated and clever lecturers in GCD.

    Why do you think the college is a sham though? They are externally graded by HEA or HETAC or whatever, so that means they must be meeting some sort of standard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    I've been to DIT and Griffith. I studied computing in both colleges.

    I noticed two big differences between both colleges -

    1. The standard of student in Griffith college was very poor. For example, people who cannot program whatsoever somehow made it to fourth year. In DIT they would have been gone after first year.

    2. Griffith also expected very little from the students. I was amazed by how clueless the majority of the students around me were, but the lecturers seemed to think this was normal.

    Saying all that, I did like the college, but the standard of education isn't the best. Certainly compared to DIT, I thought the standard was very low, and DIT wasn't exactly rocket science!

    I agree with the other posters that the lecturers in Griffith are nicer. They are much more willing to spend time with you, and are much more 'human'.

    I don't hold with the idea that a Computer Science degree is all about programming. Many colleges seem to do the "programming language of the semester" so is it any wonder people don't get good at any of them. The bigger problem is when they come out and are not much good at anything related to IT.

    The degrees are issued by HETAC which supervises the standard of all third level certification. Personally found it a decent college. Hard to draw comparisons except when you get to the real world although studying part-time also meant it was easier to evaluate the content . Many IT graduates I came across seemed to be clueless irrespective of where they studied. That I would say had less to do with their alma mater and more to do with how little people could get away with in order to get a degree qualification. It is also has a lot more to do with what HETAC approve.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭experiMental


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    I've been to DIT and Griffith. I studied computing in both colleges.

    I noticed two big differences between both colleges -

    1. The standard of student in Griffith college was very poor. For example, people who cannot program whatsoever somehow made it to fourth year. In DIT they would have been gone after first year.

    2. Griffith also expected very little from the students. I was amazed by how clueless the majority of the students around me were, but the lecturers seemed to think this was normal.

    Saying all that, I did like the college, but the standard of education isn't the best. Certainly compared to DIT, I thought the standard was very low, and DIT wasn't exactly rocket science!

    I agree with the other posters that the lecturers in Griffith are nicer. They are much more willing to spend time with you, and are much more 'human'.

    Maybe the requirements for working in entry level positions in IT industry nowadays aren't that high. Computer science is a very broad and diluted term. Maybe Griffith college is doing the right thing and preparing people the bare minimum, and to be good at it. They can secure a typical entry level position, rather than be overqualified with a DIT degree, come into an interview and say that they know about cybernetic theory yet be expected to do a simple PHP scripting as a job.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    No, my concern is how do you get to fourth year without understanding the basics of programming?

    For a computing degree that makes no sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭experiMental


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    No, my concern is how do you get to fourth year without understanding the basics of programming?

    For a computing degree that makes no sense.

    That is a bit worrying indeed. Perhaps IT is not Griffith College's forte.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,946 ✭✭✭red_ice


    techguy wrote: »
    Do you genuinely think that?? I'm curious, what is your relationship with the college? What course were you involved in?

    I think the college is ran extremely well..Management are constantly striving for bigger and better!!

    I was in computing for 2 years, and i did the hons degree there too.

    <mod snip - hullaballoo.>

    In total, i did 7 years there and i regret everything about them. They still think i owe them money and have threatned legal action for exams which i gave not only told them i didnt want to be registered for, i also gave a doctors note to them before and after the exams saying i wouldnt be there for them.

    I have nothing but pure straight hate for the place and the useless muppets that run it.

    Its not opinion, its fact. You buy a degree in the place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭Rabeile31


    red_ice wrote: »


    You buy a degree in the place.

    I take offence to that statement!!!
    I am a law student at Griffith College, i am not swimming in money im working to pay back loans for my fee's... but i guarantee you that you do not "buy" a degree!!!!

    I study my ass off to get my exams...

    fair enough you have a valid reason for hating the place but to make a statement like that is an insult to other students who attend the college and do work hard for their achievments!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    Rabeile31 wrote: »
    I study my ass off to get my exams...

    I think what he meant was the people who don't study their ass off also manage to graduate...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭techguy


    With regards the idea of buying a degree(computing), I really disagree with that.

    I think the BSCH is taught very well and the focus isn't specifically on languages but the fundamentals of programming like OOP, Data Structures and Programming. These are concepts that you can apply to any programming language and will last a lot longer than any langauage you learn in college.

    A few people here raving about DIT.. I'd love to see some of the exam papers for 1st and 2nd year computing course.

    This is not a hostile challenge, i've often wondered about the standard of the curriculum vs other colleges like TCD,DIT and UCD..

    Anybody interested in sending some my way? I'm too lazy to check if they are publicly available on college sites.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    I did computing in both DIT and Griffith - don't have any of my old exam papers - but I can tell you my masters exam papers in Griffith were extremely easy compared to the standard in DIT.

    Also, you can't compare the standard of student in either college unfortunately. I'm not saying that to be harsh - I was genuinely shocked at how poor the students in Griffith were. What's worse is they all passed even though I would consider at least 50% of them utterly clueless.

    I liked Griffith, but I wouldn't hire someone who went there, unless they were an A student. There is no excuse not to get A's in every Griffith exam - it's that easy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭techguy


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    I did computing in both DIT and Griffith - don't have any of my old exam papers - but I can tell you my masters exam papers in Griffith were extremely easy compared to the standard in DIT.

    Also, you can't compare the standard of student in either college unfortunately. I'm not saying that to be harsh - I was genuinely shocked at how poor the students in Griffith were. What's worse is they all passed even though I would consider at least 50% of them utterly clueless.

    I liked Griffith, but I wouldn't hire someone who went there, unless they were an A student. There is no excuse not to get A's in every Griffith exam - it's that easy.

    WOW!


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    I did computing in both DIT and Griffith - don't have any of my old exam papers - but I can tell you my masters exam papers in Griffith were extremely easy compared to the standard in DIT.

    Also, you can't compare the standard of student in either college unfortunately. I'm not saying that to be harsh - I was genuinely shocked at how poor the students in Griffith were. What's worse is they all passed even though I would consider at least 50% of them utterly clueless.

    I liked Griffith, but I wouldn't hire someone who went there, unless they were an A student. There is no excuse not to get A's in every Griffith exam - it's that easy.

    Also found exams easy but that might have had something to do with the fact that I was already working. I have worked with IT graduates from UL,DCU, UCC,UCG,UCD,Maynooth, QUB, TCD and many others and while some were excellent others were seriously lacking in their first year out of college. This is to be expected.

    I would readily acknowledge that some people should not have been in GCD. Some of the students hadn't a clue and were out to party but that is no different to any other college. That is hardly the fault of the college. Like all colleges exams serve a purpose, and good exam technique can get you a long long way. You also tend to get better at doing them the longer you survive. The exams are obviously of a level deemed acceptable to HETAC or they wouldn't let them award them. Of more importance I would say is how people do on the thesis/project itself and how much knowledge and ability they show there.

    Incidentally we lost close to 25% of our first year students, and a further 10% after 2nd year, a figure not too uncommon in other colleges.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    I'd just like to say that I enjoyed my time in Griffith, and I got a lot out of my time there. Their setup is much more personal which suited me well, as I used the lecturers guidance heavily to do a lot of extra learning (I've a strong interest in computer science - I had no interest in simply learning enough to pass the exams.)

    So if you put in the effort, you will get a lot back out of the college.

    My only criticism really is the fact that so many poor students were allowed pass. This, in my opinion, cheapens their qualifications. But overall I enjoyed my time there, and got a lot out of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,946 ✭✭✭red_ice


    Rabeile31 wrote: »
    I take offence to that statement!!!
    I am a law student at Griffith College, i am not swimming in money im working to pay back loans for my fee's... but i guarantee you that you do not "buy" a degree!!!!

    yes you do. Your nothing special because you have a job to pay for your degree. I did for my 7(i think) years in the place. Daddy didnt pay my way, like most of the people in the place.
    Rabeile31 wrote: »
    I study my ass off to get my exams...

    fair enough you have a valid reason for hating the place but to make a statement like that is an insult to other students who attend the college and do work hard for their achievments!!!

    Excuse me? I studied computer science in the place. I litterally gave up a social life and made computing my life for the years i spent in that course. I've learned a silly ammount of computer languages on my own without the college, had to explain my work to the lecturers because they were too slow to understand it, had to pay for an exam i didnt have to sit and many other things along those lines. Trust me, when the time comes, you will realise what a sham the place is. On the other hand, i apologise for offending you. This is a debate(for lack of better words), i am treating it as such.

    AARRRGH wrote: »
    I think what he meant was the people who don't study their ass off also manage to graduate...

    Exactly. That and those who sucked off a lecturer to pass. Thats the only logical reason other than money as to how some of the absolutely (for lack of better words) retarded idiots have walked away with a degree from griffith. I struggled with propositional logic in 3rd year with tony, and this tool passes it with ease. I ask how, and they cant explain a single section of it to me. Now you explain that to me?

    techguy wrote: »
    I think the BSCH is taught very well and the focus isn't specifically on languages but the fundamentals of programming like OOP, Data Structures and Programming. These are concepts that you can apply to any programming language and will last a lot longer than any langauage you learn in college.

    Very true, fundamental is the key word. I learned basic java in griffith. Thats all i took away from the course. A computer science degree from griffith doesnt get you a job tho, either will a masters. you have to know how to use computers, think out side the box and so on, thats what gets you a job.
    techguy wrote: »
    This is not a hostile challenge, i've often wondered about the standard of the curriculum vs other colleges like TCD,DIT and UCD..

    likewise, i would also like to see the papers. Honestly tho, i think that it would be pointless as i wouldnt be able to distinguish what would be considered a hard paper at an entry level computing curriculum, regardless of the establishment.
    techguy wrote: »
    Anybody interested in sending some my way? I'm too lazy to check if they are publicly available on college sites.

    +1

    AARRRGH wrote: »
    Also, you can't compare the standard of student in either college unfortunately. I'm not saying that to be harsh - I was genuinely shocked at how poor the students in Griffith were. What's worse is they all passed even though I would consider at least 50% of them utterly clueless.

    I would agree with your % judgement, however you cant measure the standard of any student because of a piece of paper tho, its their body of work that should do the talking - Fail or pass.
    AARRRGH wrote: »
    I liked Griffith, but I wouldn't hire someone who went there, unless they were an A student. There is no excuse not to get A's in every Griffith exam - it's that easy.

    I wouldnt put it down to A's. Id sit down and talk with them. Throw them a few curve balls and see how they do. Then hire/ignore accordingly. I've learned that having a degree gets you in the door for the interview, after that you actually have to know what your talking about. Most people with a degree, again, regardless of the establishment, dont know their 'trade'.
    AARRRGH wrote: »
    I used the lecturers guidance heavily to do a lot of extra learning (I've a strong interest in computer science - I had no interest in simply learning enough to pass the exams.)

    Who did you have that was so inspirational? The only people who i regarded that were in any way usefull were tom and doctor kev.

    Tom was just a nice guy to talk to and a nice mentor. he only lectured while he did his masters, and kev.. well, a great lecturer, but i really only got a nice way to indent/document code from him(very tidy method if i do say so myself).
    AARRRGH wrote: »
    So if you put in the effort, you will get a lot back out of the college.

    i disagree, infact, quite the opposite. My time at griffith made me hate computing science in almost every facade. So much so, i quit a very well paying job (that i got without the degree), working for a hospital running their network and administrating 4000(and growing) computers and well over 5000 staff.

    I've been scientifically minded most of my life. Needing to know, understand and manipulate computers, hardware and software was a passion. Its something that i dont need to explain to someone, i dont need to prove anything to anyone, im good at it. Yet i cant stand it now. I dont really want anything to do with it if im honest.

    I've moved into a creative line of work now for the past 4 years, and i love it. I have high standards, yet i rarely meet my expectations. Something that in computers i took for granted as my work was always to the highest standard. No thanks to griffith.

    The only thing i was left with was a bitter taste in my mouth which has no doubt been reflected in my responce to this post.

    I do respect the people posting on this forum, i just hope you can see why i have no respect for the establishment.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    @red ice

    a few complains have been made bout your postings... i in general don't mind as there are plenty counter arguements to even things out... just don't get to specific with issues, boards.ie become libel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    In fairness, if college doesn't work out for you, you should only blame yourself. I think it's a bit of a cop out blaming lecturers or the college or whatever... especially somewhere like Griffith where you're surrounded by (apologies) fairly poor students - it's easy to stand out as the best or one of the best in the class.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭JDLK


    Did my business undergrad in Griffith and did my Masters in Smurfit College (which is ranked as one of the best in Ireland) and I didnt notice any difference really

    if anything I preferred the smaller classes in Griffith which, as other people mentioned, made the lecturers more personable


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 whatdahack


    lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ramblingcelt


    Griffith is a business and it is of no interest to the company to fail people. Unfortunately there is little external quality control so Griffith, and other colleges, are free to pass as many as they like. A friend lectures in one of the regional colleges and they say it is almost impossible to fail a student so public or private is no real differentiator.

    Law is said to be good but only becuase graduates need to pass extrnal exams to train as a solicitor or barrister and lecturers tend to be practising law.

    I have heard Griffith have had issues with missing records so anyone graduating should get and keep multiple copies of their transcripts!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭experiMental


    Griffith is a business and it is of no interest to the company to fail people. Unfortunately there is little external quality control so Griffith, and other colleges, are free to pass as many as they like. A friend lectures in one of the regional colleges and they say it is almost impossible to fail a student so public or private is no real differentiator.

    Law is said to be good but only becuase graduates need to pass extrnal exams to train as a solicitor or barrister and lecturers tend to be practising law.

    I have heard Griffith have had issues with missing records so anyone graduating should get and keep multiple copies of their transcripts!!

    Would I be right in saying that Griffith is training in areas which don't need much research, and all you have to do in your chosen career is to follow predefined rules (e.g consultant on property law to a solicitor,etc)

    I'd say it makes sense to pay for that qualification. If it was free, then 99% of school leavers would go for careers like that, which involve little risk taking and research, yet award good pay. Then there would be little or no innovation and the economy would suffer. I mean, all courses in state universities that deal in the above areas are either nearly inaccessible or have extremely difficult requirements, but in Griffit, you can get the same qualifications for less points, but you have to pay.

    Do you think that "free fees" education like in universities is just an incentive to get people to undertake difficult research-oriented degrees which involve high risk and questionable career reward at the end? (e.g arts/science degrees). For example, no matter how hard I would try to create innovative concepts that could save the world in my design engineering degree, I would still be faced with little degree-related opportunities at the end - the only option would be going for one of those extremely competitive graduate employment schemes where I would be up against people from many other courses. At the end, though, some of my designs would be used by corporations to make profits, without giving me any reward or work experience.

    To make the long story short, I think that private universities are a wise thing in this day and age - if you want a relatively stable career, you have to "suffer" for it as much as for a relatively unstable one. There is no easy way ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 beemar


    Before Griffith I studied and completed degrees in two other universities and I'm sorry to say Griffith is piss poor in every aspect I can judge. I've finished two years of my three year degree and am constantly surprised by the lack of intelligence of people on my course. It amazes me that they pass exams and I find its the first college I've been too where I haven't had to work incredibly hard to get good grades. Do nothing and get a B. A real kip. I can't wait to transfer somewhere decent after next year to complete my course. I'm embarrassed to say I attend the place.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 beemar


    Somewhere else has stated that all colleges find it hard to fail people. My first degree had over 80 people in the first year. This had reduced to 8 by 4th year. <snip>


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