Limerick - Galway Line

Jim Martin

I see in the local press that IR are now talking about Ennis - Athenry re-opening now not taking place until late summer (they keep putting it back)!

Nostradamus

Jim Martin wrote: »

I see in the local press that IR are now talking about Ennis - Athenry re-opening now not taking place until late summer (they keep putting it back)!

Going to be a huge failure anyways. No big deal.

Ham'nd'egger

The opening has been pushed back from May because of the delay in phasing in some sets of 22000 class railcars. This has limited the amount of operational 29000s that would be free to cascade onto other duties and hence for 26/27/2800s to the Limerick-Galway line. As a result of this known problem, Irish Rail have taken the change to do some additional relaying of track at Ennis along with other PW way on the network. The probable expected opening of the line should be late September.

Carawaystick

sorry, is the plan to use commuter trains for this "intercity" line? while Intercity trains are used for commuter runs elsewhere???

Judgement Day

It has always been CIE/IE's plan to use the ghastly 'Commuter' railcars on the WRC and this will do little to popularise the route with passengers.

Slice

The distance Galway Limerick is similar to the distance Dublin Dundalk and that is served by commuter trains. There's also fewer intermediate stations Galway Limerick

SeanW

Yeah, but when the prospective passenger has a choice between a crappy ass commuter railcar trundling along at 50MPH or a coach doing the same thing on the M18 OR a car doing 75 on said motorway ...

Judgement Day

Quite agree with you SeanW but this is something CIE/IE have never been able to grasp - when the comfort level of a rail vehicle is little better or, indeed, worse than a road vehicle there is no advantage of travelling by rail. Many of the 'potential' users of the WRC may be intercity passengers and being transferred into a Commuter railcar at Athenry or Limerick is not quite the right experience.

But, look there really is no point debating it, CIE/IE will do precisely what they like and are answerable to nobody. Remember this is the company that still has the brass neck to charge passengers extra to bring them into the City Centre from Heuston - it's hardly the passengers fault that Heuston is nearly in Inchicore ! All the years that CIE/IE have been ripping passengers off NIR/Translink have offered FREE travel from Belfast Central into the City Centre and, some years ago, before the Crosscity link was built the FREE service used to continue to Belfast (York Road).

I am old enough to remember CIE forcing passengers to battle upstairs with their luggage on RA double-deckers at Heuston, only to have the driver then dawdle up the quays deliberately slowly so that the conductor could sell everybody tickets!!!

NOTHING EVER HAS OR WILL CHANGE AT CIE/IE.:mad:

www.irishrailways.blogspot.com

T Corolla

Slice wrote: »

The distance Galway Limerick is similar to the distance Dublin Dundalk and that is served by commuter trains. There's also fewer intermediate stations Galway Limerick

The journey is going to take 1hr 50 mins or so I have read on this forum and it is on single windy trackwork while Dublin to Dundalk is 1hr 10 mins on a higher standard of trackwork. Aithough for the number of passengers using the service a four box commuter car will be sufficent. There has been a capital spend on this project of one hundred million euro's and this going to be a disaster from day one. They could have taken that money and double up the track from Portarlington to Athlone and dramatically improved the service or instead of metro north created at spur of the northern line to the airport and also reopened Navan to Drogheda until they had the new navan rail line built instead of the ridiclious suitation at the moment I not anti west but if they were going to re-open the rail line the could have built it so the journey could be completed in the same as Dublin to Dundalk

Nostradamus

T Corolla wrote: »

There has been a capital spend on this project of one hundred million euro's and this going to be a disaster from day one.

But they'll make it look like a huge success and fudge the numbers to "prove it".

The opening day packed trains and stations will become the West-On-Track default images for a typical days patronage on the line.

T Corolla

Sure it is all politics. A country of four million plus people do not need railways to nowhere. I only hope that the time of 1hr 50 min is incorrect and that it is closer to the 1hr time. I live in Mullingar for the last nine years and when I started to use the Sligo trains there were only three per day and three extra to serve the peak services in the morning and evening. Limerick to Galway is getting eight a day in both directions. I went from Ennis to Limerick and back on the evening train and the train was 40 mins to Ennis and it did not stop but all seats were full with five to ten people standing. From a commuter persecptive the wage diference between Limerick and Galway would hardly be that much difference since both areas wouls attract the same type of employment and wage standards as someone travelling from all the commuter belts to Dublin.

Jim Martin

This is all extremely negative.

The important thing at the moment is that at least something is being done to encourage sustainable transport - and this is the only way to go with the country in the disastrous mess that it is!

Judgement Day

No, the point is that something is being done, but so badly that it will give ammunition to all vested interests who are against rail investment. :mad:

Jim Martin

I'm sorry you feel that way 'Judgement Day', I'm just glad in these bad days that something good is happening and we just have to build on that (from small acorns..........etc)!

Nostradamus

Jim Martin wrote: »

This is all extremely negative.

The important thing at the moment is that at least something is being done to encourage sustainable transport - and this is the only way to go with the country in the disastrous mess that it is!

The line was constructed to pratically the same Victorian specs which made it a failure in the first place.

The junction at Athenry is facing the wrong way. Several of the stations are literally in green fields away from any population centres of note. The existing section south of Ennis is still prone to the flooding which keeps it closed on a regular basis.

It is slower that the bus and car on the same route.

More than anything else it is not sustainable as it offers nothing other than a token rail line which kinda connects Ennis to Atherny and is facing in the wrong direction away from Galway so the trains have to reverse at the Athenry. So the service will be Victorian in nature as well.

It will fail to get passengers to make it sustainable and the reason why people here are so negative ("honest" actually) about it is because they are depressed it wasn't done correctly in the first place to make it sustainable. We are mostly all pro-rail development on this board and this is why we are also mostly anti Western Rail Corridor. The whole sorry saga has been like an episode of Fr Ted from start to finish.

This is reality mate, not negativity. A major oppertunity to create a driect line between Galway and Limerick with decent speeds was sacrificed to the parish pumpers and trainspotters. This is why it'll be used as the benchmark to never invest in rail in future. "Sure look at that Western Rail Corridor! Nobody used it, so why should we build a line to Navan or a High Speed route between Dublin and Belfast!!!!" - I can hear the next generation of Sean Barretts on TV and radio now saying that for 25 years into the future.

The WRC may well be the nail in the coffin of rail development in Ireland going forward, not the re-birth. The line should of never been closed in the first place, but the reconstruction is future-proofed for failure. How is that sustainable?

D.L.R.

Nostradamus wrote: »

The line was construted to pratically the same Victorian specs which made it a failure in the first place.

The junction at Athenry is facing the wrong way. Several of the stations are literally in green fields away from any popualtion centres of note. The exsisting section south of Ennis is still prone to the flooding which keeps it closed on a regular basis. It is slower that the bus and car on the same route.

More than anything else it is not sustainable as it offers nothing other than a token rail line which kinda connects Ennis to Atherny and is facing in the wrong direction away from Galway so the trains have to reverse at the Athenry. So the service will be Victorian as well.

It will fail to get passengers to make it sustainable and the reason why people here are negative about it is because they are depressed it wasn't done correctly in the first place to make it sustainable. We are mostly all pro-rail development on this board and this is why we are also mostly anti Western Rail Corridor.

This is reality mate, not negativity. A major opertunity to create a driect line between Galway and Limerick with decent speeds was sacrificed to the parish pumpers and trainspotters. This is why it'll be used as the benchmark to never invest in rail in future. "Sure look at that Western Rial Corridor! No body used it, so why should we built a line to Navan or a High Speed route between Dublin and Belfast!!!!"

The WRC may well be the nail in the coffin of rail development in Ireland going forward, not the re-birth. The line should of never been closed in the first place, but the reconstruction is future-proof for failure. How is that sustainable?

If the line is to exist at all, Galway-Limerick shouldn't be going anywhere near Athenry - its miles off axis. IE/govt clearly have yet to appreciate the impact of straight lines on the success of a scheme.

I've been listening out for the sound of that penny for years now. Still haven't heard it.

Nostradamus

D.L.R. wrote: »

govt clearly have yet to appreciate the impact of straight lines on the success of a scheme.

I've been listening out for the sound of that penny for years now. Still haven't heard it.

It is the same with roads. I would wager the number one criteria in road design in Ireland is to make sure it crosses the lands of famers who are related to Fianna Fail TDs and Councillors.

D.L.R.

Nostradamus wrote: »

It is the same with roads. I would wager the number one criteria in road design in Ireland is to make sure it crosses the lands of famers who are related to Fianna Fail TDs and Councillors.

Who knows. Athenry sure isn't the intuitive natural junction its being put forward as, thats for sure. Road AND rail no less. (Athenry pop 3000)

Its tolerable for G-L road users I suppose (only a few minutes out of the way), but theres no excuse for the rail alignment which has to add at least 15-20 mins onto the journey. For what? So a tiny western town has piece of the action. Thats stoopid.

It'd work like a charm if it was Limerick-Ennis-Gort-Oranmore-Galway. Even moreso if Limerick-Cork was realigned properly.

Schuhart

D.L.R. wrote: »

Who knows. Athenry sure isn't the intuitive natural junction its being put forward as, thats for sure. Road AND rail no less.

But I think we have to keep in mind that the development is purely political. The actual carrying of passengers (if any) is incidental. In other words, nothing said in favour of the line contains any analytical content. Its simply down to shouting "Ra Ra Ra" for wherever the line happens to go.

So, without even looking at the line, or any data on traffic or population or anything, you could actually write the kind of stuff that's expected.

"The line connects two of our largest cities, both National Spatial Strategy Gateways, intersecting with the Galway-Dublin line and the strategic town of Athenry. This enables the integration of services between all three cities, and provides a further backbone for integration of services from Shannon, Galway and Dublin Airports.

It also anticipates future developments, enabling further strategic links to Ireland West Airport, and the future Midlands International Airport in Offaly."

You understand, none of this has to make any sense. Its just about trying to drown out any opposition with a torrent of words.

D.L.R. wrote: »

It'd work like a charm if it was Limerick-Ennis-Gort-Oranmore-Galway. Even moreso if Limerick-Cork was realigned properly.

Possibly, but that would assume that the objective was to provide transport services that people actually need.

T Corolla

Jim Martin wrote: »

I'm sorry you feel that way 'Judgement Day', I'm just glad in these bad days that something good is happening and we just have to build on that (from small acorns..........etc)!

Thanks Jim Martin for having some positive feedback on this issue but the fact of the matter is this rail project has cost one hundred million euro's and it may as well never have been opened Limerick to Galway by train should be 1 hr 10 min by train if a capital expenditure of one hundred million euro's has been forked out for it . All I can say is money must have been extremely cheap and planning must be a disaster to allow this to be signed off and built

flazio

Fact of the matter is that it was thought more prudent to use the banking, bridges and infrastructure already in place rather then dig through new fields to get a straighter line to Galway.
IMO they should have tackled the northern line from Tuam to Galway first. The demand for a decent commuter service along there is far higher then a nice tourism link from the south.

Chris_533976

The only reason there would be any scope for a Galway - Tuam line is so one doesnt have to sit in traffic in Claregalway all day. If a relief road was built (for pennies compared to the railway) it would do far more good.

T Corolla

Fact of the matter is that it was thought more prudent to use the banking, bridges and infrastructure already in place rather then dig through new fields to get a straighter line to Galway.
IMO they should have tackled the northern line from Tuam to Galway first. The demand for a decent commuter service along there is far higher then a nice tourism link from the south.

I wont argue this point as I feel this is a valid point that in the long term commuter rail services need to be kicked off in Galway as it is extremely difficult to get around but coming back to your point on not getting better value for money from the capital invested in this project by not digging through field in order to straighten the line does not hold water. The long term life of this railway is to attract people onto it from the cars and to give a value for money service to its patronage and not a service where passengers will pay high prices and Irish rail will deliver a second rate service. I hope that the time of 1 hr 50 min is incorrect and it is nearer to 1 hr 10 min as I have quoted for similar journeys already in place. In years to come when Cork has to support a large population on people and a large volume of daily commuters start to commute the rail line is not going to attract people and the roads are going to become worse and overall a poor public transport is bad for the country as a whole. The thing that shocks me is that this land was already in CIE ownership and a the quoted cost for re-opening the line was between two to two and a half million per mile. I think for that investment the people of the west deserve a better public transport infrastructure. The bottom line is the better quality the service the higher number of passenger that will use it thus the return on investment will be quicker

KC61

T Corolla wrote: »

Fact of the matter is that it was thought more prudent to use the banking, bridges and infrastructure already in place rather then dig through new fields to get a straighter line to Galway.
IMO they should have tackled the northern line from Tuam to Galway first. The demand for a decent commuter service along there is far higher then a nice tourism link from the south.

I wont argue this point as I feel this is a valid point that in the long term commuter rail services need to be kicked off in Galway as it is extremely difficult to get around but coming back to your point on not getting better value for money from the capital invested in this project by not digging through field in order to straighten the line does not hold water. The long term life of this railway is to attract people onto it from the cars and to give a value for money service to its patronage and not a service where passengers will pay high prices and Irish rail will deliver a second rate service. I hope that the time of 1 hr 50 min is incorrect and it is nearer to 1 hr 10 min as I have quoted for similar journeys already in place. In years to come when Cork has to support a large population on people and a large volume of daily commuters start to commute the rail line is not going to attract people and the roads are going to become worse and overall a poor public transport is bad for the country as a whole. The thing that shocks me is that this land was already in CIE ownership and a the quoted cost for re-opening the line was between two to two and a half million per mile. I think for that investment the people of the west deserve a better public transport infrastructure. The bottom line is the better quality the service the higher number of passenger that will use it thus the return on investment will be quicker

There is not a hope of 1 hour 10 minutes and that is obvious from even the present running times.

I would expect timings of 1 hour 50 minutes as I've outlined before, with the various sections will be something like:
Limerick-Ennis - 35 minutes (as at present)
Ennis-Gort - 30 minutes
Gort-Athenry - 25 minutes
Athenry-Galway - 13 minutes (as at present)

The balance of the running time of 1 hour 50 minutes comes from station dwell times of 30 seconds and probably 4 minutes at Athenry where the driver switches ends.

T Corolla

If they haid laid a straighter track 1hr 10 min would be achieved. In the long term this is the target time that such services are looking at to remain in competitive with the roads. The average spped on this railway will be 40mph and the railcars can average a speed of 75mph would going at a slower speed cause the engines to become inefficent and have a shorter life span or are the engines in question designed to go at a slower pace

glineli

D.L.R. wrote: »

It'd work like a charm if it was Limerick-Ennis-Gort-Oranmore-Galway. Even moreso if Limerick-Cork was realigned properly.

And thats the way it should work!!!!

Its a shame that they didnt do it like this.

KC61

T Corolla wrote: »

If they haid laid a straighter track 1hr 10 min would be achieved. In the long term this is the target time that such services are looking at to remain in competitive with the roads. The average spped on this railway will be 40mph and the railcars can average a speed of 75mph would going at a slower speed cause the engines to become inefficent and have a shorter life span or are the engines in question designed to go at a slower pace

That would have required the purchase of lands etc - they were restricted to using the existing alignment....the notion of building a completely different alignment was not in the running as I understand it.

But that's a political decision and not one I'm going to tackle...what I can say looking at distances and running times is that overall running time might get down to 1 hour 40 minutes, but not much more than that.

T Corolla

Any idea of the ticket prices for single/day return/return I say a cool 22 euro's. I think I will give to Bus Eireann instead

Robbo

T Corolla wrote: »

Any idea of the ticket prices for single/day return/return I say a cool 22 euro's. I think I will give to Bus Eireann instead

Don't bother with Bus Eireann either. Citylink do an express Galway-Limerick service that takes 90 minutes and will only get faster when the next stretch of dualler is opened.

Wild Bill

This railway line is complete nonsense.

I've had to endure idiots on boards.ie criticise the Green Luas extension to Cherrywood as being a line to "nowhere" even though it now carries 100 times more passengers than Ennis - Galway.

If you want a simple explanation of the mess the country is in look no further than anti-Dublin rural advocates and urban Dublin trendies/greenies.

A match made in Hell (as far as the Irish economy is concerned). :mad:

OurLadyofKnock

100% vindication for the late Nostradamus.