to be free!! mean's what!?

jonbravo

everyone talk's and think's free but how free are we as mind's!?
Are you free??, more free then the person's who longed for it during WW1 or WW11!?
THE best conspiracy is the conspiracy you know notting about-FACT-
so what does it mean to be free, does it mean you'll have a house but you'll never pay enuf for it!?
does it mean you'll have an opinion on anything,like no question's asked!?
the best conspiracy is the world that we cann't see.....,....... but its the world that we can dream about.

Woger

What is the matrix?

live2thewire

society in this form humans can never be free.

jonbravo

Woger wrote: »

What is the matrix?

lets not think whats in-side it, but whats out- side it.

jonbravo

live2thewire wrote: »

society in this form humans can never be free.

your wisdom be-come,s me ...

jonbravo

In other word's ,,,,,,,,,,, is freedom the best conspiracy of all time!?

Nick_oliveri

When laws and prohibitions of substances are introduced into the equation or even pissing outside will get you jailed.. no, freedom isn't free, it costs folks like you and me!

I get jailed for exposing mah willy in public, I can show mah manboobs, but if a woman exposes her woobs, she gets done!

Freedom is an illusion. And when democracy becomes a race between only two main parties, in this country or others, is it democracy?

jonbravo

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

When laws and prohibitions of substances are introduced into the equation or even pissing outside will get you jailed.. no, freedom isn't free, it costs folks like you and me!

I get jailed for exposing mah willy in public, I can show mah manboobs, but if a woman exposes her woobs, she gets done!

Freedom is an illusion. And when democracy becomes a race between only two main parties, in this country or others, is it democracy?

okey nick am i right in sayin you think freedom is an illusion!?
i dont think freedom is an illusion, its a conspiracy..

Nick_oliveri

Well there is motive, the man going to war for our freedoms or democracy etc.

But as a society we accept the illusion of either democracy or freedom. What is it to be free? Not in jail? Freedom of speech? Ya, surely we all have that. I call you or anyone else a cnut and its verbal assault/abuse/libel. Its the little things that drag us all down.

Do i agree with libel laws? I dont know, but theres certainly a lot of things you cannot say, and not only for libel either.

Cue someone waddling into the thread and comparing other countries and how we are all blessed... I think theres a godwin coming too here.

ETA: I think true freedom is a man and/or a woman fending for themselves in nature, unburdened modern society and untainted by wealth/power/hatred/revenge.

jonbravo

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

Well there is motive, the man going to war for our freedoms or democracy etc.

But as a society we accept the illusion of either democracy or freedom. What is it to be free? Not in jail? Freedom of speech? Ya, surely we all have that. I call you or anyone else a cnut and its verbal assault/abuse/libel. Its the little things that drag us all down.

Do i agree with libel laws? I dont know, but theres certainly a lot of things you cannot say, and not only for libel either.

Cue someone waddling into the thread and comparing other countries and how we are all blessed... I think theres a godwin coming too here.

there is motive yes.... there is logic also.......yes, democracy is the only freedom we know because of WW1 AND WW2 ,democracy and freedom are meant to be one, thats how i understand it.
we don't have freedom of speech as i've to follow rule's to post.
but if i do it the right way their can be a understanding about how far i can bring this subject and why it's a conspiracy.

Nick_oliveri

No I didnt mean to infer about the speech on boards, I meant our countries libel laws.
I seem to be coming across as advocating anarchism also. This is not the case.

To live in a large community means conforming to a certain amount of laws. To say we are free though, that is bull**** and we all know it. Free to buy drink and not to be seen drunk? Free to have the means to be drunk but other substances less volitile and dangerous are outlawed?

I am ranting here. The topic is the conspiracy, dont let me go any further OT.

jonbravo

Nick_oliveri wrote: »

No I didnt mean to infer about the speech on boards, I meant our countries libel laws.
I seem to be coming across as advocating anarchism also. This is not the case.

To live in a large community means conforming to a certain amount of laws. To say we are free though, that is bull**** and we all know it. Free to buy drink and not to be seen drunk? Free to have the means to be drunk but other substances less volitile and dangerous are outlawed?

I am ranting here. The topic is the conspiracy, dont let me go any further OT.

your thinking like me, i like it:D

Black Swan

Where is the conspiracy?
Conspiracy defined:
1. a secret plan to carry out an illegal or harmful act
2. the act of making such plans
(Collins Essential English Dictionary, 2nd Edition 2006, HarperCollins Publishers)
This thread reads more like the philosophy of freedom?

jonbravo

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Where is the conspiracy?
Conspiracy defined:
1. a secret plan to carry out an illegal or harmful act
2. the act of making such plans
(Collins Essential English Dictionary, 2nd Edition 2006, HarperCollins Publishers)
This thread reads more like the philosophy of freedom?

Discussion is the new philosophy.......conspiracy defined as of your opinion.....;)

Mahatma coat

as someone far smarter than me said

anarchy is not a world without rules, its a world without rulers.

surprised we havent had the usual gaggle of ah shur y've never had it so good posters yet.



the Lien of Democracy is probably our biggest hurdle, start thinkin Republic instead of democracy lads and we might just get somewhere.

democracy is just glorified mob rule, nothing fancier than that really.


and yes the conspiracy here is the lie, in case people start askin or contemplating a request for moving the thread

Veni Vedi Vici

Mahatma coat wrote: »

anarchy is not a world without rules, its a world without rulers.

I like this. Maybe its the answer to the OP. :cool:

Mahatma coat wrote: »

the Lien of Democracy is probably our biggest hurdle, start thinkin Republic instead of democracy lads and we might just get somewhere.

Can you elaborate on this?

Mahatma coat wrote: »

democracy is just glorified mob rule, nothing fancier than that really.

Interesting depiction.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

and yes the conspiracy here is the lie, in case people start askin or contemplating a request for moving the thread

:D:D

meglome

Mahatma coat wrote: »

as someone far smarter than me said

anarchy is not a world without rules, its a world without rulers.

There's a line in a Dead Kennedy's song that goes something like: anarchy's great but who's gonna fix the sewers.

Or how about: Democracy is the worst form of government except all the other ones that have been tried.

Mahatma coat wrote: »

surprised we havent had the usual gaggle of ah shur y've never had it so good posters yet.

I'll tell you what. Why don't you explain to me by what measure it was better in the past, as I'm a bit unclear on that?

Mahatma coat wrote: »

the Lien of Democracy is probably our biggest hurdle, start thinkin Republic instead of democracy lads and we might just get somewhere.

democracy is just glorified mob rule, nothing fancier than that really.

I think you have this idea that people having more direct control of government is a good thing, I'd argue that has never been the case. All you'd get is more mob rule.

And you think other forms of government aren't in most ways?

Undergod

OP, what do you mean? Do you mean that the image of freedom that this society gives us is a conspiracy, or that true freedom is a conspiracy?

humanji

Well I think nobody can ever be truly free as there's always going to be something working against you.

If we were all really free I'd have the freedom to butcher you as you sleep if I wanted. But you'd have the freedom to not be butchered in your sleep, so we're stuck with a paradox (I think ).

The best you can do is be free from certain things. And those things are different for each person.

Actually to be honest, the only real way to be free is to die. Unless you're religious, in which case you can either look forward to being a slave or being tortured for all eternity, depending on your belief. Bit shìt, really.

Flamed Diving

Jonbravo, your posts are very hard to read.

robtri

Mahatma coat wrote: »

anarchy is not a world without rules, its a world without rulers.

trying to get my head around this one.... how is that posible??

if we take away the rulers, people then have the freedom to rule themselves, which makes them rulers... which means we need to get rid of them.. which means no human race.......

jackiebrown

Freedom is taking responsibility for your own actions and not being treated like a child.

meglome

jackiebrown wrote: »

Freedom is taking responsibility for your own actions and not being treated like a child.

I think it's a nice sentiment but in practice people don't take that responsibility and we're getting worse.

jackiebrown

meglome wrote: »

I think it's a nice sentiment but in practice people don't take that responsibility and we're getting worse.

Because responsibility has been taken away from us and we accept it. Why if you speed do you get fined? You haven't hurt anyone. Its saying "Now you been a bold boy, obey the rules or else. Whose rules? Do you know the difference between a statute and Law?

I don't think we're getting worse. Change is coming alright.

Woger

jackiebrown wrote: »

Because responsibility has been taken away from us and we accept it. Why if you speed do you get fined? You haven't hurt anyone. Its saying "Now you been a bold boy, obey the rules or else. Whose rules? Do you know the difference between a statute and Law?

I don't think we're getting worse. Change is coming alright.

In what form?

meglome

jackiebrown wrote: »

Because responsibility has been taken away from us and we accept it. Why if you speed do you get fined? You haven't hurt anyone. Its saying "Now you been a bold boy, obey the rules or else. Whose rules? Do you know the difference between a statute and Law?

I don't think we're getting worse. Change is coming alright.

Okay let's take the floods in Britain there a couple of years back. One of the worst effected areas was very working class and has had low turnouts for elections. A good percentage of the people had no insurance whatsoever on their houses. So the very people who didn't feel the need to care who was running their country then screamed blue murder for the government to bail them out, which the government did.

As for speeding I'd imagine it would be all the studies that show excessive speed kills. I don't care about the difference between a statute and a law I only care whether the rules make sense or not.

jackiebrown

meglome wrote: »

Okay let's take the floods in Britain there a couple of years back. One of the worst effected areas was very working class and has had low turnouts for elections. A good percentage of the people had no insurance whatsoever on their houses. So the very people who didn't feel the need to care who was running their country then screamed blue murder for the government to bail them out, which the government did.

I'd say it was the people helping each other out. Governments are companies, simple as. Companies care about one thing. Profit. If government hadn't of helped these people then the house of cards would fall. Its all an illusion. I don't need to be dictated to anymore about how to live my life. I dont need governments to tell me if I'm good or bad. I AM NOT A CHILD. If I live my life without hurting anyone then what I do is my business, no-one elses. I am innocent till proven guilty.

As for speeding I'd imagine it would be all the studies that show excessive speed kills. I don't care about the difference between a statute and a law I only care whether the rules make sense or not.

Does it make sense that you dont get notified when you NCT is up but you get fined and 5 points on your licence if you miss it? Does it make sense that the worst drug in our lives, alcohol, is legal? Does it make sense that banks can steal millions and get away with it? Does it make sense that Bertie Ahern, the smug git, can just quit his job and the questions into his personal finances end? Does it make sense that this government allowed US military jets to land here when no one I met thought they should? Does it make sense that evrything costs more now but we're paid less? Does it make sense that the church can keep stum about child abuse and still hold power in this country? Does it make sense that we're sold into slavery from the day we're born? Does it make sense that we the people, with our labour, power this country yet get taxed to do anything in it?

I have a feeling you and I have different ideas of what makes sense.

Woger

jackiebrown wrote: »

I'd say it was the people helping each other out. Governments are companies, simple as. Companies care about one thing. Profit. If government hadn't of helped these people then the house of cards would fall. Its all an illusion. I don't need to be dictated to anymore about how to live my life. I dont need governments to tell me if I'm good or bad. I AM NOT A CHILD. If I live my life without hurting anyone then what I do is my business, no-one elses. I am innocent till proven guilty.

Does it make sense that you dont get notified when you NCT is up but you get fined and 5 points on your licence if you miss it? Does it make sense that the worst drug in our lives, alcohol, is legal? Does it make sense that banks can steal millions and get away with it? Does it make sense that Bertie Ahern, the smug git, can just quit his job and the questions into his personal finances end? Does it make sense that this government allowed US military jets to land here when no one I met thought they should? Does it make sense that evrything costs more now but we're paid less? Does it make sense that the church can keep stum about child abuse and still hold power in this country? Does it make sense that we're sold into slavery from the day we're born? Does it make sense that we the people, with our labour, power this country yet get taxed to do anything in it?

I have a feeling you and I have different ideas of what makes sense.

Not if you're born a slave master :cool:

humanji

Well, if you want to be technical:

jackiebrown wrote: »

Does it make sense that you dont get notified when you NCT is up but you get fined and 5 points on your licence if you miss it?

It's your car, so it's your duty to make sure it's in a safe condition so that you're not putting other peoples lives at risk. And am I right in saying you don't automatically get 5 points, you can get up to 5 points if brought to court?

jackiebrown wrote: »

Does it make sense that the worst drug in our lives, alcohol, is legal?

Well it's hardly the worst, but it does make sense. Nobody is forcing you to drink and it people should be free to polute themselves in any way they want.

jackiebrown wrote: »

Does it make sense that banks can steal millions and get away with it?

The heads of the banks found loopholes that others didn't know existed. It happens. But it still makes sense. It's hardly right to punish someone who technically did nothing wrong.

jackiebrown wrote: »

Does it make sense that Bertie Ahern, the smug git, can just quit his job and the questions into his personal finances end?

Unless you have evidence proving he did something wrong, then what would you have done? As you say, "innocent until proven guilty". Sadly it works for everyone.

jackiebrown wrote: »

Does it make sense that this government allowed US military jets to land here when no one I met thought they should?

Yes, because not everyone was against the war, in particular, those who made the decision to let the planes land.

jackiebrown wrote: »

Does it make sense that evrything costs more now but we're paid less?

Yes, because people enjoy ripping other people off. We're a selfish people, so it honestly wouldn't make sense if everyone started looking out for each other.

jackiebrown wrote: »

Does it make sense that the church can keep stum about child abuse and still hold power in this country?

Yes, because there's a lot of people who allow them to hold that power.

jackiebrown wrote: »

Does it make sense that we're sold into slavery from the day we're born?

Are we? Or is that just your interpretation of it?

jackiebrown wrote: »

Does it make sense that we the people, with our labour, power this country yet get taxed to do anything in it?

We the people, are the country. If you want to run the country with good will then you're more than welcome to try and change it. But you'll have a hard time doing it.

You see, these things aren't all fair, but they do make sense. If you want to change it, then off you go. Spread the word and get as many followers as you can. Make a political party and get elected. Once elected, make the changes. But you'll be hard pressed to find the support.

The utopia you seem to have in mind simply can't exist in any society. You have to weigh up freedom to do whatever you like with what is in the best interest of the society.

jackiebrown

humanji wrote: »

It's your car, so it's your duty to make sure it's in a safe condition so that you're not putting other peoples lives at risk. And am I right in saying you don't automatically get 5 points, you can get up to 5 points if brought to court?

No its not. If its yours how can they just take it away.

Well it's hardly the worst, but it does make sense. Nobody is forcing you to drink and it people should be free to polute themselves in any way they want.

Its by far the worst. We either legalise or ban them all.

The heads of the banks found loopholes that others didn't know existed. It happens. But it still makes sense. It's hardly right to punish someone who technically did nothing wrong.

Ah so those that designed the system left loopholes with which to cheat and steal with? Fair enough.

Unless you have evidence proving he did something wrong, then what would you have done? As you say, "innocent until proven guilty". Sadly it works for everyone.

He's as dirty as they come. If he lies once he loses all credability. He lied many times. "I cant remember". Bollocks.

Yes, because not everyone was against the war, in particular, those who made the decision to let the planes land.

Er, your point.

Yes, because people enjoy ripping other people off. We're a selfish people, so it honestly wouldn't make sense if everyone started looking out for each other.

I'm not selfish and I know alot of people who're not as well. Just outnumbered.

Yes, because there's a lot of people who allow them to hold that power.

Who exactly. The government perhaps. I wonder why?.

Are we? Or is that just your interpretation of it?

Either or, I'm not here to explain everything to you. Check out Rob Menard or John Harris.

We the people, are the country. If you want to run the country with good will then you're more than welcome to try and change it. But you'll have a hard time doing it.

I never said it'd be easy.

You see, these things aren't all fair, but they do make sense. If you want to change it, then off you go. Spread the word and get as many followers as you can. Make a political party and get elected. Once elected, make the changes. But you'll be hard pressed to find the support.

This is where I realised you dont have a clue what I'm talking about.

The utopia you seem to have in mind simply can't exist in any society. You have to weigh up freedom to do whatever you like with what is in the best interest of the society.

What the hell does that mean, weigh up freedom. Gimme a break.

At least I'm here trying to talk about different ideas. I've asked people here what improvements could be made and no-one answers. I can imagine Utopia. Did dreaming die with Martin Luther King? I have a dream too. Where people take responsibility for their actions and not give it away to those who use it for selfish reasons. If you cant imagine a perfect world then how can you make one?

humanji

jackiebrown wrote: »

No its not. If its yours how can they just take it away.

If it's your car you should have keep it safe. If you can't then why should you be allowed to have one? Why should your freedom to have an unsafe care infringe on my freedom not to be killed by your car should something go wrong? As I said before, you can't have ultimate freedom for everyone. It's simply not possible. There has to be degrees.

jackiebrown wrote: »

Its by far the worst. We either legalise or ban them all.

So we either remove my freedom to drink alcohol, or we allow children to inject heroin into themselves? Must it only be one or the other?

jackiebrown wrote: »

Ah so those that designed the system left loopholes with which to cheat and steal with? Fair enough.

Yes. As I said, it's unfair but it makes sense.

jackiebrown wrote: »

He's as dirty as they come. If he lies once he loses all credability. He lied many times. "I cant remember". Bollocks.

If you can prove he's guilty, I'll help with the lynching, but sadly, he gets away with what he's allegedly accused of.

jackiebrown wrote: »

Er, your point.

My point is that it makes sense that the elected government not takl to the people over every single choice it makes. Again, unfair but sensible.

jackiebrown wrote: »

I'm not selfish and I know alot of people who're not as well. Just outnumbered.

You want your version of freedom imposed on everyone. That's selfish. I don't mean that as an insult, as it would be great if we could live in a perfect world. But we just can't.

jackiebrown wrote: »

Who exactly. The government perhaps. I wonder why?.

The people of this nation. There are many who will support the churhc 100% no matter what. It's their right to choose that.

jackiebrown wrote: »

Either or, I'm not here to explain everything to you. Check out Rob Menard or John Harris.

jackiebrown wrote: »

I never said it'd be easy.

My point there was that the taxes are a supposed to be an offering to a communal fund for the betterment of our society. In reality it doesn't work out so well, but nobody would give anything if they didn't have to.

jackiebrown wrote: »

This is where I realised you dont have a clue what I'm talking about.

And this is where I realise you don't understand what I'm talking about. You think there's a simple black and white solution. That we can all just flick a switch and change the world. That's not even remotely possible.

jackiebrown wrote: »

What the hell does that mean, weigh up freedom. Gimme a break.

It's a simple concept. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, to quote Mr Spock. Why should you and your wants and needs be taken into acount above all the wants and needs of the rest of the country? The answer, they shouldn't.

jackiebrown wrote: »

At least I'm here trying to talk about different ideas. I've asked people here what improvements could be made and no-one answers. I can imagine Utopia. Did dreaming die with Martin Luther King? I have a dream too. Where people take responsibility for their actions and not give it away to those who use it for selfish reasons. If you cant imagine a perfect world then how can you make one?

If you're a responsible driver, does that mean everyone is a responsible driver? That's why we have speeding laws. Because some people feel they know better. They think their abilities are greater than they really are. They think they can easily drive at higher speeds. And then they lose control and kill someone.

It's all well and good to dream. But reality has to follow certain rules. If it didnt' I'd be a fireman living on a cloud, just like I wanted to be when I was a kid.

jackiebrown

Ok. Fair enough. I'm not going to argue every point with you. Can I ask you a question though? Can you see any problems with our society and if so have you got any ideas how to fix them or will you just leave it to those who've proven themselves incompetant?

thecommander

jackiebrown wrote: »

Ok. Fair enough. I'm not going to argue every point with you. Can I ask you a question though? Can you see any problems with our society and if so have you got any ideas how to fix them or will you just leave it to those who've proven themselves incompetant?

The main problem is that people (us) vote the same politicians into power over and over. We have the power to change it, but don't use it correctly.

humanji

jackiebrown wrote: »

Ok. Fair enough. I'm not going to argue every point with you.

Thank god because the post were getting too long!

jackiebrown wrote: »

Can I ask you a question though? Can you see any problems with our society and if so have you got any ideas how to fix them or will you just leave it to those who've proven themselves incompetant?

Yes, there's a whole lot wrong with this society. But there's few people on earth with the ability to fix it instantly. It'll take time and patients to go over each and every area of our day to day lives and sort out the problems. That's why we elect governments, so they can do the hard work, while we can get busy living. We just have to find a government that is truly willing to put the people first.

Sadly, I just don't have enough faith in humanity for that to ever happen.

jackiebrown

humanji wrote: »

Thank god because the post were getting too long!

Lol, tbh I was jus too lazy to reply:D.

Sadly, I just don't have enough faith in humanity for that to ever happen.

Wow. This cut me deep. Do many people think like this? Have you ever heard the phrase "Heaven on Earth". Well I believe in it with all my heart. We can make it if only we have faith in each other and realise what we already know, that you're only as strong as your weakest link. There's always hope. Peace brother.

jackiebrown

thecommander wrote: »

The main problem is that people (us) vote the same politicians into power over and over. We have the power to change it, but don't use it correctly.

We need to give ourselves a break here and stop blaming ourselves for our probs. IT ISN'T OUR FAULT. What is an election but an illusion of choice. Like Ireland its either Party A or Party B everywhere. How is that our fault when no matter what choice we make we'll still get shafted. Political parties dont have different agendas. How many promises are made before elections that are never carried through? Nothing ever changes. So we can continue to live the status quo, which from what I'm reading pretty much everyone agrees isn't perfect or we can use the most powerful weapon at our disposal, the word NO.

thecommander

jackiebrown wrote: »

We need to give ourselves a break here and stop blaming ourselves for our probs. IT ISN'T OUR FAULT. What is an election but an illusion of choice. Like Ireland its either Party A or Party B everywhere. How is that our fault when no matter what choice we make we'll still get shafted. Political parties dont have different agendas. How many promises are made before elections that are never carried through? Nothing ever changes. So we can continue to live the status quo, which from what I'm reading pretty much everyone agrees isn't perfect or we can use the most powerful weapon at our disposal, the word NO.

Plenty of independent candidates out there. Ive never voted FF or FG in any election. It's not an illusion of choice.

I'm currently working doing posters, flyers etc for an independent, going for local elections in June. I have a fair idea that he'll get in, as did the last independent I worked with 5 years ago. So, if the system is as flawed as you say, how did he get in?

jackiebrown

thecommander wrote: »

Plenty of independent candidates out there. Ive never voted FF or FG in any election. It's not an illusion of choice.

I'm currently working doing posters, flyers etc for an independent, going for local elections in June. I have a fair idea that he'll get in, as did the last independent I worked with 5 years ago. So, if the system is as flawed as you say, how did he get in?

You may have never voted for them but they always win. Why? One word, funding.

But maybe your on about the dail and your independants voice is being heard. Would that be during the 100 odd days they actually sit or maybe they sit for so few days so the independants dont have a voice. Am sure all dail time at the mo is economy this and economy that, your lad is drowned out.

meglome

jackiebrown wrote: »

We need to give ourselves a break here and stop blaming ourselves for our probs. IT ISN'T OUR FAULT. What is an election but an illusion of choice. Like Ireland its either Party A or Party B everywhere. How is that our fault when no matter what choice we make we'll still get shafted. Political parties dont have different agendas. How many promises are made before elections that are never carried through? Nothing ever changes. So we can continue to live the status quo, which from what I'm reading pretty much everyone agrees isn't perfect or we can use the most powerful weapon at our disposal, the word NO.

But you see it is our fault, almost completely our fault. We kept voting in the same people over and over. We didn't go out and protest when they did things that were stupid and wrong. SO WE ARE TO BLAME.

People have more say now than they ever had, despite the claims to the contrary. We've never been in a better position to ensure change yet the majority are happy with the status quo. Things can change if we try, but we actually need to try.

jackiebrown

meglome wrote: »

But you see it is our fault, almost completely our fault. We kept voting in the same people over and over. We didn't go out and protest when they did things that were stupid and wrong. SO WE ARE TO BLAME.

People have more say now than they ever had, despite the claims to the contrary. We've never been in a better position to ensure change yet the majority are happy with the status quo. Things can change if we try, but we actually need to try.

So what then, do we just give up? Do we use my favourite Homerism, "You've learned a valuable lesson today Bart, never try".

We wont do it by protesting either cause if we're united we won't need too.

We cant change the past but we can create the future.

bonkey

jackiebrown wrote: »

Freedom is taking responsibility for your own actions and not being treated like a child.

People generally do take responsibility for their own actions...based on their own interpretation of what responsibility they should take.

It is only once we start to apply other people's opinions to the subject, that we find otherwise.

"Being treated like a child" is similarly subjective. Some people find being told what to do as being treated like a child....so if they decide that they can behave in a manner that the rest of society consider irresponsible, they are being treated like a child if society tries to tell them they can't.

Which leads us to the problem....the two "aspects" which comprise your definition of freedom can find themselves completely at odds with each other. If you think I'm not taking responsibility for my actions, but I think I am...what gets done? More importantly, if I think you'd be treating me like a child for as much as voicing the opinion that I'm not taking the responsibility you think I should...does that mean you have no right to do so?

What does it mean to be free? You're free to decide that yourself. You choose what freedom means to you...just allow that others / society are free to choose otherwise.

jackiebrown

bonkey wrote: »

People generally do take responsibility for their own actions...based on their own interpretation of what responsibility they should take.

It is only once we start to apply other people's opinions to the subject, that we find otherwise.

"Being treated like a child" is similarly subjective. Some people find being told what to do as being treated like a child....so if they decide that they can behave in a manner that the rest of society consider irresponsible, they are being treated like a child if society tries to tell them they can't.

Which leads us to the problem....the two "aspects" which comprise your definition of freedom can find themselves completely at odds with each other. If you think I'm not taking responsibility for my actions, but I think I am...what gets done? More importantly, if I think you'd be treating me like a child for as much as voicing the opinion that I'm not taking the responsibility you think I should...does that mean you have no right to do so?

What does it mean to be free? You're free to decide that yourself. You choose what freedom means to you...just allow that others / society are free to choose otherwise.

Typical:rolleyes:

I've been talking about equality and helping each other. All I've done is speak my truth on here, your reply was anticipated.

meglome

jackiebrown wrote: »

Typical:rolleyes:

I've been talking about equality and helping each other. All I've done is speak my truth on here, your reply was anticipated.

Indeed but Bonkey is pointing out that your interpretation of this and other peoples will be different. You are entitled to that interpretation and so are they.

jackiebrown

You two should get a room.

meglome

jackiebrown wrote: »

You two should get a room.

But Switzerland is so far away, plus my sister lives there.


I'm with you on making things better I just think you're being overly simplistic about it.

6th

jackiebrown wrote: »

You two should get a room.

Dont be so childish.

mysterious

Being free, is YOU, been in harmony and experiencing YOU as you are.

It is allowing you to create and be what you feel/think you want to be.

Freedom.

K-9

mysterious wrote: »

Being free, is YOU, been in harmony and experiencing YOU as you are.

It is allowing you to create and be what you feel/think you want to be.

Freedom.

And the freedom to disagree with YOUR perception. YES?

mysterious

K-9 wrote: »

And the freedom to disagree with YOUR perception. YES?

I said "you" what freedom is to you.

But since your asking something universal, the universe is free when it expands and it is free as one. its all of you. being you;)


You might find it hard to understand;)

K-9

mysterious wrote: »

I said "you" what freedom is to you.

But since your asking something universal, the universe is free when it expands and it is free as one. its all of you. being you;)


You might find it hard to understand;)

Think I got my answer, or your perception!

mysterious

K-9 I'm not here to get into a childish rant here. Seriously

Freedom is freedom, if you want to get redicoulous and really off about it, create another thread, where you can make deliberate attempts to tongue tie the word into something else.

I'm sticking to this thread.