Food needs for muscle gains

floggg

My current stats are 5ft 10, 11.5 stone, 24 yo M.

I have just started starting strength and am currently looking to pack on some muscle and up my strength. ideally like to keep body fat down (spent the last year trying to lose it, and don't want to go back) - but willing to compromise on this to a certain extent for a little while!

How many calories would one need to consume to start making good strength and muscle gains, and what type of cals should they be? What ratio of Protein/carbs/fats should you aim for if doing it "cleanly?"

Can you cut back on carbs and still expect to make gains? Add if carbs are required, should they come from cereal/grain sources, or will fruit and veg sources suffice?

Current calorie intake is between 2500 - 3000, with a protein/carb/fat ratio of around 40/35/25.

ScissorPaperRock

floggg wrote: »

My current stats are 5ft 10, 11.5 stone, 24 yo M.

I have just started starting strength and am currently looking to pack on some muscle and up my strength. ideally like to keep body fat down (spent the last year trying to lose it, and don't want to go back) - but willing to compromise on this to a certain extent for a little while!

How many calories would one need to consume to start making good strength and muscle gains, and what type of cals should they be? What ratio of Protein/carbs/fats should you aim for if doing it "cleanly?"

Can you cut back on carbs and still expect to make gains? Add if carbs are required, should they come from cereal/grain sources, or will fruit and veg sources suffice?

Current calorie intake is between 2500 - 3000, with a protein/carb/fat ratio of around 40/35/25.

That ratio looks good to me, but I'd imagine it would be pretty hard to get enough carbs from fruit and veg alone to pack on muscle.

Maybe increase your calorie intake by a few hundred for a few weeks see if you notice much difference.

OK-Cancel-Apply

Canned fish like Tuna and Salmon are great. High in protein and low in saturated fat.

floggg

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

Canned fish like Tuna and Salmon are great. High in protein and low in saturated fat.

Yea, being eating a can of tuna a day for the last week. Growing to like the stuff. I generally like salmon, but the tinned stuff tastes a bit stranger. Am sticking to smoked salmon - there always seems to be some form of special offer going on it in dunnes! Also eating a lot of chicken breast.

OK-Cancel-Apply

Well, it's important not to go mad on it either. Check this out:

http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/tuna.asp

kumate_champ07

use diff herbs with the tuna so as not to get bored with it, i tend to eat the same food every day and end up getting sick of it. for a while i had mince and rice 3 times a day, i had 3 sets of flavourings i used which helped a little

maybe im just lucky but protein consumption for strength trainers is generally too extreme, at most imo it should be 1.5g per 1kg. the elite world class lifters,bodybuilders and strongmen eat a ton of the stuff, i highly doubt they need such a large amount but i guess they dont want to take any chances with diet. alot of protein is going to be used for energy or fat storage if u eat the supplement companies RDA of protein.

celestial

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

maybe im just lucky but protein consumption for strength trainers is generally too extreme, at most imo it should be 1.5g per 1kg. the elite world class lifters,bodybuilders and strongmen eat a ton of the stuff, i highly doubt they need such a large amount but i guess they dont want to take any chances with diet. alot of protein is going to be used for energy or fat storage if u eat the supplement companies RDA of protein.

Correct - it's mainly a huge marketing scam on the part of the supplement companies - selling and marketing an image that people buy in to and only too happy to waste their hard earned cash on.

OK-Cancel-Apply

You know, there's a huge amount of BS out there. I spoke to my GP a number of years ago (who also specialises in sports medicine) about a couple of different products including protein shakes. He laughed to himself and told me that the only way to gain lean mass is through the correct diet - the tried and tested way. Everything you need can be bought in the supermarket. He said that protein shakes will probably give you little more than indigestion.

I think those shakes are of use to professional bodybuilders to 'top up' their protein intake when they can't access their usual meal. But these are the guys who lift 6 days a week and have a turbo-charged metabolism.

Degsy

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

But these are the guys who lift 6 days a week and have a turbo-charged metabolism.

Yes,and a consumate knowledege of pharmaceuticals.

The fact is that most people wont ever get to look like these guys unless they have
1)wonderful genetics and ten or more years training to the detriment of all else.
or
2)Reasonable genetics and a steroid habit combined with years of training and eating correctly.
Despite what the companies tell you,Markus Ruhl didnt get like that from drinking whey shakes and swallying glutamine.

slicus ricus

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

I think those shakes are of use to professional bodybuilders to 'top up' their protein intake when they can't access their usual meal. But these are the guys who lift 6 days a week and have a turbo-charged metabolism.

Why is it that only professional bodybuilders need to top up or supplement their protein intake when they cant access their usual meal? I would consider supplements as part of my diet - i.e. I take them to supplement my diet. There's plenty of us out there who aint professional bodybuilders who train, eat 7 meals a day and supplement with protein! As degsy said, pro bodybuilders are performance enhanced, you have to be to look like that! However, it is very possible to get in excellent condition naturally through training & diet - now you'll never get to pro bodybuilding standard naturally though.

OP, my advice would be - eat 6-7 protein meals a day (>25gs of protein per meal), eat plenty of carbs in the meal prior to your workout, and get a good PWO shake (this is included as a meal in my book!). Do that consistently and train consistently and you should gradually gain muscle.

floggg

slicus ricus wrote: »

OP, my advice would be - eat 6-7 protein meals a day (>25gs of protein per meal), eat plenty of carbs in the meal prior to your workout, and get a good PWO shake (this is included as a meal in my book!). Do that consistently and train consistently and you should gradually gain muscle.

Obviously not trying to get to pro BB stage, or anything close (my god, those people are horrifically huge - saw pics of that Markus Ruhl guy - he make me a lil queasy TBH).

Have been trying to keep carbs to a minimum (and generally stick to veg sources as much as possible), except for pre and post workout - i assume this is compatible with muscle gain, or is there a minimum of carbs that should be eating?

Also, have been eating every 3 or so hours, throwing in chicken breasts and nuts in between main meals. however,never really feel hungry when i eat and find my self eating just for the sake of it. i fnd shakes or milk handy for when i don't really feel like more food.

i thought eating more would be easy, but its hard getting food into you at such short intervals.

slicus ricus

floggg wrote: »

Have been trying to keep carbs to a minimum (and generally stick to veg sources as much as possible), except for pre and post workout - i assume this is compatible with muscle gain, or is there a minimum of carbs that should be eating?

No, there's no minimum as such, other than the amount required to give you sufficient energy for training. I would personally recommend pasta, rice, and potatos with your veg pre training. You really need to make sure you're getting enough in to give you enough energy. For post workout, it's simple carbs you need obviously.

floggg wrote: »

Also, have been eating every 3 or so hours, throwing in chicken breasts and nuts in between main meals. however,never really feel hungry when i eat and find my self eating just for the sake of it. i fnd shakes or milk handy for when i don't really feel like more food.

i thought eating more would be easy, but its hard getting food into you at such short intervals.

Yeah, eating can become a complete pain in the hole when your talking about 7 meals a day! You just have to ask yourself is it worth it for what you gain out of it. I think it is so i keep doing it.

floggg

slicus ricus wrote: »

No, there's no minimum as such, other than the amount required to give you sufficient energy for training. I would personally recommend pasta, rice, and potatos with your veg pre training. You really need to make sure you're getting enough in to give you enough energy. For post workout, it's simple carbs you need obviously.

Have started adding some glucose to PWO shakes, and then usually have some chicken and veg, and maybe some milk. Am trying to stay away from pasta/ricec etc as much as possible, especially as i tend to work out late in the evenings.

slicus ricus wrote: »

Yeah, eating can become a complete pain in the hole when your talking about 7 meals a day! You just have to ask yourself is it worth it for what you gain out of it. I think it is so i keep doing it.

Yea, which is why shakes are handy. Hopefully i will see the results to justify it. I hadn't managed must progress up to this when my diet was focused on dropping body fat, so hopefully this will send me in the right direction.

slicus ricus

floggg wrote: »

Am trying to stay away from pasta/ricec etc as much as possible, especially as i tend to work out late in the evenings.

The idea of eating those types of carbs pre workout is that they give you energy and you then use that energy training. It's a simple question of input and output. I can't imagine you're getting enough carbs and hence enough enough energy from eating just vegetables pre training.

floggg

slicus ricus wrote: »

The idea of eating those types of carbs pre workout is that they give you energy and you then use that energy training. It's a simple question of input and output. I can't imagine you're getting enough carbs and hence enough enough energy from eating just vegetables pre training.

Actually, up to this i would generally have a turkey and ham sambo before training - i usually train straight after work, so it was the handiest thing for me.