People on the dole working for free...can it work???

easyeason3

Ok there is something similar going on in another thread but not everyone is going to read it & there's so many replies on it that it's become a bit long winded. It also has a lot of debate going on about various opinions & I want this thread to at least try to achieve something.

Anyway I'm signing on for the last few months. I have been working for the last ten years, sometimes double & treble jobbing. I have always been in full time employment but because I was always good at my job I often got asked to give a dig out from previous employers during busy times or if someone got unexpectedly sick.

As it stands I get €204 a week for doing nothing. Now believe me when I say that I don't like getting this money for nothing. I have always been used to working & getting €204 a week means I can manage, just, but that's not my problem. I want to work & I also feel incredibly guilty getting this money when the rest of the country are being taxed to the hilt.

So I propose that, anyone who is willing, offers to work for the same amount of money for maybe three days a week. Three days a week isn't going to kill anyone & it will also allow time to actively seek work & attend interviews.

Now here lies the question. What would people on social welfare do for three days a week that will benefit the economy?

Repair roads? Improve conditions at schools? Work in social welfare? Aid care givers? Become a cleaner in a local hospital?

I'd really like people to give an opinion on this as to what anyone who is willing & able can do.

I really want constructive thoughts & advice on what can be done & how it can be achieved.

Thank you.

Pacifico

Problem is most people don't have your attitude and are quite happy doing nothing for the money!

jaffa20

Pacifico wrote: »

Problem is most people don't have your attitude and are quite happy doing nothing for the money!

i dunno, if i was on the dole i'd definitely do some sort of voluntary work with animals or something or i'd go out of my mind with boredom at home.

easyeason3

Pacifico wrote: »

Problem is most people don't have your attitude and are quite happy doing nothing for the money!

Well I'm certainly no do gooder but this is something I feel very strongly about & I would really appreciate something to come out of it. The way I see it if I got enough replies with viable suggestions then I would have no hesitation approaching Dail Eireann with a print out of the replies & looking for something to be done. If it was only considered then it's a small victory but if there was something implemented on the back of it then it would be...well there's no words for it really.

My name is URL

If you feel so guilty about getting money then sign-off the dole. Making threads about this on a forum won't change anything. If you were working "double & treble jobs", surely you have enough savings to survive on for the time being.

Furthermore, who'll pay their insurance? Taxpayers?

There's a long list of logistical reasons as to why those on benefits are not forced to work.

Thrill

easyeason3 wrote: »

Now here lies the question. What would people on social welfare do for three days a week that will benefit the economy?

Repair roads? Improve conditions at schools? Work in social welfare? Aid care givers? Become a cleaner in a local hospital?

I'd really like people to give an opinion on this as to what anyone who is willing & able can do.

What about the people doing those jobs already? You would be putting their jobs in danger.

joey54

I think you might be onto something it just needs to be teased out a little. The fact is the type of people on the dole in recent months has changed. A lot of them I think would happily engage in activities similar to the ones mentioned by the OP.

At the moment there some highly educated people on the dole who could only be a benefit to certain jobs, even it was only for a couple of days a week!

xOxSinéadxOx

I'm pretty sure they already get people to work for free when they're on the dole

EastWallGirl

I think it's an excellent idea. Volunteering for example will

1) Give structure to your day.

2) Allow you to get experience if you have a skills gap

3) Help you get an additional reference (you may not be on good terms with a previous employer).

I do not understand why you ahve to be unemployed for a set period of time before you can do a course or a job placement because the longer the gap the bigger the possible problems.

easyeason3

Upward Spiral wrote: »

If you feel so guilty about getting money then sign-off the dole. Making threads about this on a forum won't change anything. If you were working "double & treble jobs", surely you have enough savings to survive on for the time being.

Furthermore, who'll pay their insurance? Taxpayers?

There's a long list of logistical reasons as to why those on benefits are not forced to work.

I have asked for constructive advice & opinions on this. I don't want this to turn into a debate on people getting social welfare.
The post is very clear in what I want & to be honest if you are a taxpayer then I would have thought you would have been in favour of this.
Would you prefer to work & pay taxes for me to sit around & do nothing? Thought not. I'm looking for a way to improve things & sort the leeches from the genuine people, because from what I can gather we all seem to be tarnished with the same brush at the moment.
As regards working double & treble jobs, yes i did get offered money for it but I didn't accept it because it was mostly a favour for my previous employers who i happened to maintain a friendly relationship with after I left them.

PK2008

This doesnt make any sence becuase if you were to work 3 days a week you would have to have some employer- even if it was the government, then you would be in a totally different world where your employer would have to have different kinds of insurance etc depending on the work you were doing, and you would have certain rights, plus you would have to be paid minimum wage,plus they would have to provide some kind of supervisor, once you work for someone you are legally entitled to certain rights and your employer is legally obliged to make certain provisions.

Being on the dole is not just about getting "free" money it also has alot to do with your legal status in relation to employment rights (ie you aint got any)

Sorry thats not constructive but what you want to do is turn "unemployed" into "employed" but still retain the unemployed status which is legally impossible (unless you want to set the trade union movement back a hundred years)

Darkbloom

It's an excellent idea however I have to ask:

- does volunteering count as being "unavailable" for work?

I've also noticed the amount of people willing to report you if they think you're committing dole fraud. Through your good will, you might get some busybody reporting you cos they saw you, heaven forbid, sweeping the streets.:eek:

easyeason3

PK2008 wrote: »

This doesnt make any sence becuase if you were to work 3 days a week you would have to have some employer- even if it was the government, then you would be in a totally different world where your employer would have to have different kinds of insurance etc depending on the work you were doing, and you would have certain rights, plus you would have to be paid minimum wage,plus they would have to provide some kind of supervisor.

Being on the dole is not just about getting "free" money it also has alot to do with your legal status in relation to employment rights (ie you aint got any)

Sorry thats not constructive but what you want to do is turn "unemployed" into "employed" but still retain the unemployed status which is legally impossible (unless you want to set the trade union movement back a hundred years)

Ok I'm not saying dole is 'free' money but it is handed out with no effort made on the receivers part.
I'm not looking to turn unemployed into employed but I am looking for ways that people on social welfare can contribute,on a totally voluntary basis. As the rest of the country is taking a hammering with pay cuts & extra tax I think it's time a certain portion of people on social welfare steps up to the plate.

easyeason3

Darkbloom wrote: »

It's an excellent idea however I have to ask:

- does volunteering count as being "unavailable" for work?

I've also noticed the amount of people willing to report you if they think you're committing dole fraud. Through your good will, you might get some busybody reporting you cos they saw you, heaven forbid, sweeping the streets.:eek:

No anyone willing to participate would fully entitled to take a job if it is offered.
This would in no way affect your chances of getting a job but if it was implemented I would like an official recognition to be put on a CV.

Rebel021

I saw a documentary awhile back where people on welfare in the states have to work for their welfare be it food stamps or whatever the equivalent is.
Surprise surprise it was mostly African americans who had to travel to work and pay for it themselves whilst working 10 hour days at mostly food outlets and food stands in malls.
Some would call it economic slavery others would suggest it gives people a purpose and self respect ie working not receiving welfare...I would go with slavery.

I can't see how making people work for their dole can benefit themselves or the economy
as it will only be exploited and Employers will use it to reduce their workforces and re-employ these people through work for your dole schemes to cut costs and increase profits for their greedy little selves.

If you don't like getting free money as you call it sign off or volunteer your free time to charitable organisations.

And working for free as a favour to your previous employers means your taking work from somebody.
So you work for free but you don't like getting free money from the state to whom you paid taxes......
You my friend are a conundrum

My name is URL

easyeason3 wrote: »

Ok I'm not saying dole is 'free' money but it is handed out with no effort made on the receivers part.
I'm not looking to turn unemployed into employed but I am looking for ways that people on social welfare can contribute,on a totally voluntary basis. As the rest of the country is taking a hammering with pay cuts & extra tax I think it's time a certain portion of people on social welfare steps up to the plate.

Your idea is not bad, it's just not feasible. The jobs you mentioned require training and insurance and various other prerequisites.

There already are initiatives to get people to 'help out' ...see FAS Schemes

Making people 'volunteer' is slavery. People already have the freedom to volunteer if they wish.

Rebel021

To the OP
I can see your point but I would go the route of eduction or upgrading peoples skills for their dole but not working jobs that would only be abused.

Thrill

Why would employers pay workers when they could get free labour from the dole? Hospitals would sack their cleaners and anyone else they could, if they could get people to work for them with the state paying their wages.

The same would go for schools, care givers, social welfare etc.

PK2008

easyeason3 wrote: »

Ok I'm not saying dole is 'free' money but it is handed out with no effort made on the receivers part.
I'm not looking to turn unemployed into employed but I am looking for ways that people on social welfare can contribute,on a totally voluntary basis. As the rest of the country is taking a hammering with pay cuts & extra tax I think it's time a certain portion of people on social welfare steps up to the plate.

You can come round and cut my grass if you want

easyeason3

Rebel021 wrote: »

I saw a documentary awhile back where people on welfare in the states have to work for their welfare be it food stamps or whatever the equivalent is.
Surprise surprise it was mostly African americans who had to travel to work and pay for it themselves whilst working 10 hour days at mostly food outlets and food stands in malls.

I can't see how making people work for their dole can benefit themselves or the economy
as it will only be exploited and Employers will use it to reduce their workforces and re-employ these people through work for your dole schemes to cut costs and increase profits for their greedy little selves.

If you don't like getting free money as you call it sign off or volunteer your free time to charitable organisations.

And working for free as a favour to your previous employers means your taking work from somebody.
So you work for free but you don't like getting free money from the state to whom you paid taxes......
You my friend are a conundrum

Right well maybe you should read the original post I wrote, it should answer a few questions.
And no when I did work for free it was usually at the last minute & because no one else was available so how is that taking someone elses work?
If I had posted a thread on how great it is to be on the dole then you would have a different problem to complain about.

easyeason3

Upward Spiral wrote: »

Your idea is not bad, it's just not feasible. The jobs you mentioned require training and insurance and various other prerequisites.

There already are initiatives to get people to 'help out' ...see FAS Schemes

Making people 'volunteer' is slavery. People already have the freedom to volunteer if they wish.

Yes but you have to be unemployed at least 18 months until you can be considered for any Fas run scheme.

Funny enough I don't remember saying I'd like to 'make' people volunteer. This thread is about people who are on the dole but want to work yet they can't get any work. It's about benefitting your, mine, everyones community.

Terry

Rebel021 wrote: »

I saw a documentary awhile back where people on welfare in the states have to work for their welfare be it food stamps or whatever the equivalent is.
Surprise surprise it was mostly African americans who had to travel to work and pay for it themselves whilst working 10 hour days at mostly food outlets and food stands in malls.

I can't see how making people work for their dole can benefit themselves or the economy
as it will only be exploited and Employers will use it to reduce their workforces and re-employ these people through work for your dole schemes to cut costs and increase profits for their greedy little selves.

If you don't like getting free money as you call it sign off or volunteer your free time to charitable organisations.

And working for free as a favour to your previous employers means your taking work from somebody.
So you work for free but you don't like getting free money from the state to whom you paid taxes......
You my friend are a conundrum

What do you mean by that?


OP, find a local charity and do some work for them

Unfortunately the rules regarding Job seeker's allowance and benefit require you to be able to start a job at the drop of a hat, so you could actually lose your benefit or allowance if you were seen doing volunteer work
You are supposed to be looking for work every minute of every day, so if you are doing volunteer work, that means you are breaking the law.

You can declare that you are doing volunteer work, but if you tell the wrong person (a typical AH poster who may work for the the department of social welfare and hates everyone on the dole) they will withdraw your payment., even though you are actually doing something for your community.
It's a no win situation.

Avns1s

AFAIK if you volunteer to work with a charity, you will lose your dole as you are then deemed to be "unavailable for work"!

Now, how STUPID is that?

The type of model you suggest is there already in various FAS Schemes and Rural Social Scheme. You just have to be a long time unemployed and meet other criteria to be eligible!

Arcee

easyeason3 wrote: »

Ok I'm not saying dole is 'free' money but it is handed out with no effort made on the receivers part.

I think people who have worked for years and years and contributed thousands to the social welfare fund would disagree with your assertion they are being handed money having made no "effort".

easyeason3

Thrill wrote: »

Why would employers pay workers when they could get free labour from the dole? Hospitals would sack their cleaners and anyone else they could, if they could get people to work for them with the state paying their wages.

The same would go for schools, care givers, social welfare etc.

Right as I have said quite a few fcuking times now I am looking for advice on how best to approach this. It's not about employers getting free employment.
I am not looking for a situation where people on the dole go into a hospital & offer to undercut the current cleaning staff in order to get a job. If someone wants to do that they don't need the governments help, they would probably manage it themselves.
I gave the EXAMPLE of cleaning a hospital because their hours have been cut back but yet there is still the same amount of cleaning to be done.
I am looking at departments, hospitals, county councils etc that have had to cut back on staff or hours in order to survive. So instead of getting people on social welfare to 'take' these jobs I am suggesting that they VOLUNTEER to work a three day week in order to keep certain standards up that will obviously be left wanning due to finance.

Rebel021

By being there to work for free means your previous employer doesn't have to hire the staff he needs to cover the hours that can be lost due to somebody being sick,absent or called away unexpectantly.
Well I did read your post and you want to work 3 days for you dole and have enough free time to actively seek work & attend interviews.
What you actually want to acheive is for people who recieve a very low sum to work for it and continue to live below the poverty line.

Lets continue to widen the gap between the rich and the poor with your proposals.

Rayan

This is a good idea in principal, the only problem being there are a lot of highly skilled people on the dole now - solicitors/accountants/bankers/IT/teachers/etc. If the state can hire these people into their offices (dept. of justice, dept. of finance, schools, etc.) for €200/week, they are hardly gonna keep paying the existing staff €700-€800/week for doing the same job.

easyeason3

Terry wrote: »

What do you mean by that?


OP, find a local charity and do some work for them

Unfortunately the rules regarding Job seeker's allowance and benefit require you to be able to start a job at the drop of a hat, so you could actually lose your benefit or allowance if you were seen doing volunteer work
You are supposed to be looking for work every minute of every day, so if you are doing volunteer work, that means you are breaking the law.

You can declare that you are doing volunteer work, but if you tell the wrong person (a typical AH poster who may work for the the department of social welfare and hates everyone on the dole) they will withdraw your payment., even though you are actually doing something for your community.
It's a no win situation.

I think you will find that the comment about African Americans was posted by Rebel021.
I am not doing volunteer work. I visit my aunt because to be honest it passes the day & when I am there drinking tea it means her daughter can run to the local shop for all of 10 minutes, & I have occasionally done a favour for a previous employer who is a friend.
So what law am I breaking? The law of having a fcuking soul?

Rebel021

Rebel021 wrote: »

I saw a documentary awhile back where people on welfare in the states have to work for their welfare be it food stamps or whatever the equivalent is.
Surprise surprise it was mostly African americans

Terry wrote: »

What do you mean by that?

I don't mean anything by it
The way the doc was presented it showed most of the people on these schemes were african american.

easyeason3

Rebel021 wrote: »

By being there to work for free means your previous employer doesn't have to hire the staff he needs to cover the hours that can be lost due to somebody being sick,absent or called away unexpectantly.
Well I did read your post and you want to work 3 days for you dole and have enough free time to actively seek work & attend interviews.
What you actually want to acheive is for people who recieve a very low sum to work for it and continue to live below the poverty line.

Lets continue to widen the gap between the rich and the poor with your proposals.

This is obviously pointless. If, maybe three times a year, I get a phone call asking me am I availbale to work a few hours because X hasn't shown up or X is sick & they have tried everyone else but are in dire straits. I have never taken anyones hours or job, if anything I saved it because the few times I was asked to do it I showed up which means X wasn't as much in the doghouse.

I am not for one minute suggesting that people have to work for this but it is by choice.
There are so many apprentices on the dole queues who could continue training if the right system was put in place.
This isn't about making the rich & poor gap widen but I'm being realistic about the economic downturn. A lot of people on the dole now will possibly still be signing on in a years time.
How can the taxpayer be expected to keep funding rising dole queues when a portion of the said dole queue is WILLING to work part time, for the same money, in order to improve things a small bit.

beachlife

easyeason3 wrote: »

I think you will find that the comment about African Americans was posted by Rebel021.
I am not doing volunteer work. I visit my aunt because to be honest it passes the day & when I am there drinking tea it means her daughter can run to the local shop for all of 10 minutes, & I have occasionally done a favour for a previous employer who is a friend.
So what law am I breaking? The law of having a fcuking soul?

just get a new job and stop moaning!!! if you where double and treble jobbing you should have no problems picking up some kind of work??? there's still jobs out there ,i know i'm looking for one!!!!!! and i won't work for free but i will do a hard days work for a fair wage..........

easyeason3

Rayan wrote: »

This is a good idea in principal, the only problem being there are a lot of highly skilled people on the dole now - solicitors/accountants/bankers/IT/teachers/etc. If the state can hire these people into their offices (dept. of justice, dept. of finance, schools, etc.) for €200/week, they are hardly gonna keep paying the existing staff €700-€800/week for doing the same job.

The government wouldn't be employing them as such so there would be no contract, verbal or written, to be honoured.
Existing employess would still have a job but there would be someone there to ease the workload.

Rebel021

WHAT
How can it improve by working for nothing?????????????
By your pointlessness they would be getting the same money and not paying TAX
because to improve things they would have to pay tax and nobody is going to pay tax from their dole.
It will not lessen the queues it will more than likely increase them with people working for their dole, employers will abuse the system and look to reduce their workforce and bring people in from the dole.

easyeason3

beachlife wrote: »

just get a new job and stop moaning!!! if you where double and treble jobbing you should have no problems picking up some kind of work??? there's still jobs out there ,i know i'm looking for one!!!!!! and i won't work for free but i will do a hard days work for a fair wage..........

Maybe you would be better suited to keep on looking for work so.
You obviously can't understand what the post is about even though I made it very clear, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope on the job front considering you can't understand basic written english.
I am looking for advice, ideas, suggestions for people to improve & help in any way they can.

By the way when I was double & treble jobbing it was to fill a void that the regular staff couldn't do. It was sporadic at best.

Terry

easyeason3 wrote: »

I think you will find that the comment about African Americans was posted by Rebel021.
I am not doing volunteer work. I visit my aunt because to be honest it passes the day & when I am there drinking tea it means her daughter can run to the local shop for all of 10 minutes, & I have occasionally done a favour for a previous employer who is a friend.
So what law am I breaking? The law of having a fcuking soul?

Firstly, I quoted that person's post, so that's an indication that I was referring to them.

Secondly, you are breaking the law of not being readily available for work.
don't blame me for this. I didn't make these laws.

When you are receiving social welfare payments, you sign a form saying that you are readily available to take the first job that comes your way. It's like an EULA. Nobody reads it, but then complains when they get done for breaking its rules.

My friend's sister called over today.
She's a sngle mother who works as much as is allowed without losing her single parent's thingy, which she is fully entitled to. I'm not going to go into details. I'll just mention two words. Father. Heroin.

Anyway, she works in a nursing home. She looks after people with terminal cancer and sometimes spends her own money on neccessities for the patients because of government cutbacks. She's a good person in that way.

She drives a 1l car, and her brother (my friend) keeps an eye on her 14 year old son when he stays in Leixlip. He goes to school here despite living in another town. She can't afford a baby sitter.

Anyway, she had the local welfare officer call to her yesterday because someone reported her for having a job and living in a shared ownership home.
She is not breaking any rules at all, but is still being investigated by the DFSA because someone is jealous of her. They used to hand out money if you snitched, but that was the 80's. They don't do it any more, so it can only be jealousy.

She is being hassled because she has the gall to have a part-time job while looking after her son on her own and is struggling to pay for her house.
She smokes about 6 cigarettes a day, but rarely drinks. She works nights, so she is usually too wrecked to drink.

She made the mistake of marrying a jackass who ended up becoming a heroin addict. He wasn't an user before they were married.
She looks after her son on her own and makes the best of a bad situation, bt there are some people here who would like to see her deprived of that and they ****ing sicken me.

She's basically on the dole, so should she have to give up the little job she has and work for free because some right wing know nothing know it all student says that she's is sponging off the government?

Terry

easyeason3 wrote: »

Maybe you would be better suited to keep on looking for work so.
You obviously can't understand what the post is about even though it made it very clear, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope on the job front considering you can't understand basic written english.
I am looking for advice, ideas, suggestions for people to improve & help in any way they can.

By the way when I was double & treble jobbing it was to fill a void that the regular staff couldn't do. It was sporadic at best.

Attack the post, not the poster.

---

Your solution is idotic at best.
Sending unemployed people in to do an employed person's job would result in the employed person losing their job and ending up on the dole.

easyeason3

Terry wrote: »

Firstly, I quoted that person's post, so that's an indication that I was referring to them.

Secondly, you are breaking the law of not being readily available for work.
don't blame me for this. I didn't make these laws.

When you are receiving social welfare payments, you sign a form saying that you are readily available to take the first job that comes your way. It's like an EULA. Nobody reads it, but then complains when they get done for breaking its rules.

My friend's sister called over today.
She's a sngle mother who works as much as is allowed without losing her single parent's thingy, which she is fully entitled to. I'm not going to go into details. I'll just mention two words. Father. Heroin.

Anyway, she works in a nursing home. She looks after people with terminal cancer and sometimes spends her own money on neccessities for the patients because of government cutbacks. She's a good person in that way.

She drives a 1l car, and her brother (my friend) keeps an eye on her 14 year old son when he stays in Leixlip. He goes to school here despite living in another town. She can't afford a baby sitter.

Anyway, she had the local welfare officer call to her yesterday because someone reported her for having a job and living in a shared ownership home.
She is not breaking any rules at all, but is still being investigated by the DFSA because someone is jealous of her. They used to hand out money if you snitched, but that was the 80's. They don't do it any more, so it can only be jealousy.

She is being hassled because she has the gall to have a part-time job while looking after her son on her own and is struggling to pay for her house.
She smokes about 6 cigarettes a day, but rarely drinks. She works nights, so she is usually too wrecked to drink.

She made the mistake of marrying a jackass who ended up becoming a heroin addict. He wasn't an user before they were married.
She looks after her son on her own and makes the best of a bad situation, bt there are some people here who would like to see her deprived of that and they ****ing sicken me.

She's basically on the dole, so should she have to give up the little job she has and work for free because some right wing know nothing know it all student says that she's is sponging off the government?

Nope she shouldn't give up her job, she should be applauded for it.
But if every person in the nursing home was cut back on hours you, & she, would be fairly p!ssed off if she had extra work to face into when she starts the night shift.


I am not suggesting that her job gets given to someone on welfare willing to work for free. I am suggesting that people on social welfare, who are willing, do a few hours a week to help out in places where it is needed.
For arguments sake, if your friends sister normally has an average of ten people to look after. Then hours/ staff are cut which means she has fifteen people to look after.
I'm sure she would appreciate it if she had extra help during the night because of all jobs going, a nursing home can be tough.
There would have to be something implemented that if the nursing home laid off 2 staff then they would have to replace those two staff, but not with social welfare volunteers, unless they are qualified & have gone through the correct recruitment process.

Fair play to your friends sister though, she sounds like a tough cookie.

easyeason3

Terry wrote: »

Attack the post, not the poster.

---

Your solution is idotic at best.
Sending unemployed people in to do an employed person's job would result in the employed person losing their job and ending up on the dole.

I made it clear from the first post I wanted advice, suggestions on how this might work. I never said it was definately going to work.
I have put up with so much crap from people giving out about me being unemployed that I really want to do something, or at least try to do something, to make a small change.

I do not want to make anyone unemployed, I do not want to take anyones job. I do not want to make anyone participate or show interest in something they obviously have no time for.

But i won't be jeered at by anyone when I am trying to do something constructive.

Terry

easyeason3 wrote: »

I made it clear from the first post I wanted advice, suggestions on how this might work. I never said it was definately going to work.
I have put up with so much crap from people giving out about me being unemployed that I really want to do something, or at least try to do something, to make a small change.

I do not want to make anyone unemployed, I do not want to take anyones job. I do not want to make anyone participate or show interest in something they obviously have no time for.

But i won't be jeered at by anyone when I am trying to do something constructive.

I wasn't jeering at you.
I was stating that your suggestion was not viable.

easyeason3

Terry wrote: »

I wasn't jeering at you.
I was stating that your suggestion was not viable.

I wasn't saying you were but the other poster was.

I have no problem with anyone saying the suggestion isn't viable but I'd like to know why, which has been explained by a few, but I would also like to know why it can't be made viable with the right rules & regulations.

I really think something like this could work once it is worked out & discussed properly.

So I want to know how it can be made work???

No smart alec answers please.

Thrill

Thrill wrote: »

What about the people doing those jobs already? You would be putting their jobs in danger.

Yes and no, in many situations there is simply not the money available to pay for some of these services to be done.

There is a risk that some people would take advantage and get the work done for free (at the expence of paid empolyees).
There are also many examples where the work simply wouldnt be done because there is no funding for it, in these situations voluntary work would be (hopefully) much appreciated.

Nehaxak

easyeason3 wrote: »

I wasn't saying you were but the other poster was.

I have no problem with anyone saying the suggestion isn't viable but I'd like to know why, which has been explained by a few, but I would also like to know why it can't be made viable with the right rules & regulations.

I really think something like this could work once it is worked out & discussed properly.

So I want to know how it can be made work???

No smart alec answers please.

I'll bite...

You're not the first to come up with such a stupid idea and none of what you said has any merits whatsoever, none.

There is however an alternative available, it's called the back to work scheme but is only available to those on long term unemployment (2 years or more I think?).

This allows you to get your full JA for the first year while you become self employed, 75% second year, 50% third year and finally 25% fourth year before leaving the scheme and being out on your own. What you do with yourself during those years is up to you. Go volunteer for a charity if you like, go out with a shovel and fill in potholes if it takes your fancy or, go start a small business (grants are available to help) or just take small jobs if that pleases you to supplement what you get from the dole.

I think that's a brilliant scheme, whether people make it on their own or not is up to them but you have nothing to lose in your first year and something to fall back on (even if it is less) in the following few years.

It is though only available to those unemployed for 2 years or more.

Myself I would like to see those restrictions relaxed as it might then have the ability to spur on some initiative among those of us who have been made redundant or those who are just generally pissed off applying for jobs and getting nowhere and who might like to have a go themselves at being either a sole trader or starting up a business.

Oh and unless it has changed since the 80's (I was on this scheme back in the early 90's myself) if all else fails and you don't make it as a sole trader or starting up a business, you can go back on the dole from where you left off. Nothing to lose, everything to gain, both for the person on the scheme and the state itself.

There's improvements to be made and better supporting structures put in place for those starting out on it for sure, along with lessening the cost of insurance for one - but it's a good scheme. I'd jump at the chance of going back on it now but I can't as I'm not unemployed for 2 years or more, sucks balls !

beachlife

easyeason3 wrote: »

I wasn't saying you were but the other poster was.

I have no problem with anyone saying the suggestion isn't viable but I'd like to know why, which has been explained by a few, but I would also like to know why it can't be made viable with the right rules & regulations.

I really think something like this could work once it is worked out & discussed properly.

So I want to know how it can be made work???

No smart alec answers please.

was i??? you idiot!!! i'll tell you why your an idiot,because you want the government to allow you to work for the dole,so you'll feel better about your current position (unemployed). Well the real problem here is confidence!!!!
You don't have any, you feel like you want to be kept busy because there are no jobs,until things get better and somebody offers you a job(maybe that nice boss you keep helping for free)Grow up !! you have to fight for a job!!!(i don't mean physically )I mean how many job applications have you done this week??? any interviews?? (i've applied for over a hundred jobs and only had two interviews... but i won't get depressed about it i'll keep going until i get one!!)I don't think you have done the same ,no your focus has shifted to thinking up schemes that don't work,It;s called Communism. Where the government gives you work ,tells you what career to take and dictates the rate of pay

easyeason3

beachlife wrote: »

was i??? you idiot!!! i'll tell you why your an idiot,because you want the government to allow you to work for the dole,so you'll feel better about your current position (unemployed). Well the real problem here is confidence!!!!
You don't have any, you feel like you want to be kept busy because there are no jobs,until things get better and somebody offers you a job(maybe that nice boss you keep helping for free)Grow up !! you have to fight for a job!!!(i don't mean physically )I mean how many job applications have you done this week??? any interviews?? (i've applied for over a hundred jobs and only had two interviews... but i won't get depressed about it i'll keep going until i get one!!)I don't think you have done the same ,no your focus has shifted to thinking up schemes that don't work,It;s called Communism. Where the government gives you work ,tells you what career to take and dictates the rate of pay

Ah no it's not a confidence thing at all, it's called pride.
That nice boss has since closed down his business, not by choice.
I have sent out the best part of 800 hundred applications, at least, & have been interviewed four times.
I don't need a rant from you when it's very clear what the post was intended for.
Exactly what have you contributed except your own self pitying moan?
You're not the only one out there looking for work at the moment so instead of telling everyone how hard you're looking for a job, how about thinking of ways to ease the burden of social welfare on the taxpayer.

Because the taxpayer will have little or no sympathy for someone like you or me at the moment.

ShooterSF

easyeason3 wrote: »

I am not suggesting that her job gets given to someone on welfare willing to work for free. I am suggesting that people on social welfare, who are willing, do a few hours a week to help out in places where it is needed.
For arguments sake, if your friends sister normally has an average of ten people to look after. Then hours/ staff are cut which means she has fifteen people to look after.
I'm sure she would appreciate it if she had extra help during the night because of all jobs going, a nursing home can be tough.

This is the point your missing. The employers in said nursing home knowing that free labour was available may feign financial struggle due to the times we live in. Have "no other" solution than cut hours and lay off staff. Then thank god the government comes in and saves them by sending volunteers they knew damn well were coming... And they increase their profits.

The only realistic voluntary work that anyone could do without displacing paid employees, is cleaning up the countryside and around abandoned buildings where no one would pay anyone to do such work.

Any voluntary work that could be exploited at the expense of paid employment should be avoided.

easyeason3

ShooterSF wrote: »

This is the point your missing. The employers in said nursing home knowing that free labour was available may feign financial struggle due to the times we live in. Have "no other" solution than cut hours and lay off staff. Then thank god the government comes in and saves them by sending volunteers they knew damn well were coming... And they increase their profits.

Well nursing homes are tax free as it is so I fail to see how they could run at a loss but I see your point.
Many people have pointed this out, & I knew when I posted the thread it would be an issue, but it was only an idea of whether or not it would be viable.
As it is I have to be unemployed for 18 months until I can apply for a CE scheme, which is basically the same as what I am proposing. But I'd like to see that time frame lowered or to have something else implemented.
The dole queues are not getting any shorter.

ShooterSF

It's a nice idea but there are just too many problems for it to be viable. I would like to see social welfare come to an agreement with meals on wheels and the likes of local charities where someone on social could legally put in say 1 day of volunteer work without risking their dole. Even promote it.
If 1% took this up you would have about 4000 (based on 400,000 on social) days worth of volunteer work per week.

easyeason3

easyeason3 wrote: »

Well nursing homes are tax free as it is so I fail to see how they could run at a loss but I see your point.
Many people have pointed this out, & I knew when I posted the thread it would be an issue, but it was only an idea of whether or not it would be viable.
As it is I have to be unemployed for 18 months until I can apply for a CE scheme, which is basically the same as what I am proposing. But I'd like to see that time frame lowered or to have something else implemented.
The dole queues are not getting any shorter.

I see nothing wrong in helping a neighbour look after an elderly/infirm homebound relative outside of the care already providec & paid for but NOT instead of such care.

me-skywalker

well volunterring in your own time as opposed to working to volunteer. as if the government and state agencies coudl avail of these 'free' employees they'ld be rife and eventually woudl lead to loss of actualy jobs.


a more defined system would have everyone on the dole to attend educational/training/self-development/first aid classes one day a week would work better if it was the day they had to sign on.. its not so hard as they wont be doing anything anyway...

easyeason3

me-skywalker wrote: »

well volunterring in your own time as opposed to working to volunteer. as if the government and state agencies coudl avail of these 'free' employees they'ld be rife and eventually woudl lead to loss of actualy jobs.


a more defined system would have everyone on the dole to attend educational/training/self-development/first aid classes one day a week would work better if it was the day they had to sign on.. its not so hard as they wont be doing anything anyway...

Thats a good idea.