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Is it possible to be both Catholic and gay?

  • 16-04-2009 10:34PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭


    Is it possible to be both Catholic and gay?


    I'm a 25 year old man and was raised in a Catholic family by parents who would have fairly traditional Catholic views. I'm also gay. My parents know about my sexuality and its not a problem for them.

    I am totally comfortable with my sexuality and also believe that I am a good Catholic (apart from the whole committing homosexual acts thing) - other than that, I take my faith more seriously than most people my age; I go to mass, I pray, I receive communion, I take my faith seriously and generally try to take my Catholicism seriously.

    There is an obvious clash in all of this though. Am I right to believe that officially I am not welcome in the church? Is there any way to reconcile this?


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    *subscribes to thread. :D

    I think the answer depends on whether the person you ask sees homosexuality as a behavior or lifestyle. Whether being gay is something you are or something you do.

    Most will have no issue with it until you want to get married or raise children, then the fun starts.

    Question: Would you consider gay sex to be a sin?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    studiorat wrote: »

    Question: Would you consider gay sex to be a sin?

    Personally I don't consider gay sex a sin, but I seem to remember the church sees the act as a sin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭pts


    From what I can gather it will depend on who you ask. As the church is made up of individual most people have different opinions. I think the Pope's stance is that homosexuality is is a moral evil but that people should "hate the sin but not the sinner" so to speak.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭iseethelight


    I think the situation is that there is no problem with being gay, however as sex is for procreation only you shouldn't have sex.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 943 ✭✭✭Rebel021


    Why don't you ask a priest best way to get an answer


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,587 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    I think the situation is that there is no problem with being gay, however as sex is for procreation only you shouldn't have sex.

    Huh:confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    I think the situation is that there is no problem with being gay, however as sex is for procreation only you shouldn't have sex.

    Thats easier said then done I'm afraid mate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭iseethelight


    I don't pretend its easy nor do I believe in it I was just answering the question.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    The way I would see it is, the CC reckons:

    - It's OK as long as you don't have a physical side to the relationship. (could probably turn a blind eye to a relationship.)

    - It's OK as long as you don't seek to be married.

    - It's probably better if bringing up children is left to hetero-sexual couples.

    - And you can't be a Gay priest. Hetero-celibacy only.

    Outside of the official church dogma, you'll get ignorance or understanding the same as you will anywhere.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    Hi sitstill, are you looking for a Catholic response or do you welcome Christian opinions in general?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    sitstill wrote: »
    Is it possible to be both Catholic and gay?

    I'm a 25 year old man and was raised in a Catholic family by parents who would have fairly traditional Catholic views. I'm also gay. My parents know about my sexuality and its not a problem for them.

    I am totally comfortable with my sexuality and also believe that I am a good Catholic (apart from the whole committing homosexual acts thing) - other than that, I take my faith more seriously than most people my age; I go to mass, I pray, I receive communion, I take my faith seriously and generally try to take my Catholicism seriously.

    There is an obvious clash in all of this though. Am I right to believe that officially I am not welcome in the church? Is there any way to reconcile this?
    Hello Sitstill, I sympathise with your difficult situation.

    The Church of course welcomes gay people. Love the sinner, not the sin.
    I presume you know the Church teaches that homosexual acts are gravely sinful? Therefore commiting a sexual act with someone of the same sex is a mortal sin and what's more receiving Holy Communion in a state of mortal sin is a serious sacrilege (see 1 Cor 11:27-29).

    Father John Corapi once said that he and homosexual people had a lot in common; They're both called to celibacy. If you want to do God's will, that really is the only option you have. Of course that's easier said than done but which is more important, sexual pleasure or your salvation?

    Sorry if this sounds harsh or judgemental, I don't mean to be but I would would be commiting a sin if I said that you should continue as you are.

    May God bless you and give you the strength and courage to do the right thing.

    Noel.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Hello Sitstill, I sympathise with your difficult situation.

    The Church of course welcomes gay people. Love the sinner, not the sin.
    I presume you know the Church teaches that homosexual acts are gravely sinful? Therefore commiting a sexual act with someone of the same sex is a mortal sin and what's more receiving Holy Communion in a state of mortal sin is a serious sacrilege (see 1 Cor 11:27-29).

    Father John Corapi once said that he and homosexual people had a lot in common; They're both called to celibacy. If you want to do God's will, that really is the only option you have. Of course that's easier said than done but which is more important, sexual pleasure or your salvation?

    Sorry if this sounds harsh or judgemental, I don't mean to be but I would would be commiting a sin if I said that you should continue as you are.

    May God bless you and give you the strength and courage to do the right thing.

    Noel.

    Thats for your response. But I think now I can see why every other gay person I know has totally rejected their faith.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    Hi sitstill, are you looking for a Catholic response or do you welcome Christian opinions in general?

    I'd be interested in other Christian opinions too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    sitstill wrote: »
    Thats for your response. But I think now I can see why every other gay person I know has totally rejected their faith.

    I am a non-catholic christian. May I ask you this though: What do you think about it? Do you think indulging in homosexual relations is compatible with Christianity?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    JimiTime wrote: »
    I am a non-catholic christian. May I ask you this though: What do you think about it? Do you think indulging in homosexual relations is compatible with Christianity?

    I think it can be.

    I am in a long-term monogomous relationship. I am not promiscuous.

    Does Jesus not tell us that we should love each other? I think I do. I care for others and try to live as good a life as possible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 483 ✭✭Selkies


    SitStill, if God told you to give up your relationship, would you?

    I asked myself that question so many times until I discovered that I didn't feel like God had invested enough into a relationship with me in order to justify the guilt I felt when breaking his commands.
    Keep in mind I recently lost all my faith in God, this is not path to take lightly.

    Many people have told me that they are catholics and yet they are not seeking God, they seek only some code to live your life by. The rituals are just there to remind them of that code and in most cases the code has positive effects on their life. If this is how you view it then consider the time in which the book was written and research enough about it so that you can make some informed guesses as to how it should be brought into the 21st century.

    I have heard arguments that say that homosexuality is not forbidden in the Bible. They argue that the English translation of the bible is terrible. Here is one from ananel on gaia.
    Originally Posted by Ananel
    1) I am Christian. No matter what you think of my views below, I am a firm believer in the salvation of Christ and have been for almost all of my life.
    2) I believe in the original inerrancy of Holy Scripture. In other words, God divinely inspired the apostles and prophets in the writing of the Bible, His chosen words written through their hand. I don't feel, however, that this also means that X translation is divinely inspired. What was promised was the original Word of God. We have since kept it as well as possible, though imperfections do occur.
    3) I can, though with some difficulty, read Greek and Hebrew. Much of my commentary will use words from the original language, so be prepared for this.

    Now, let me summarize this argument, because the argument itself will take pages of material even at its most basic. I will post the details of the argument in future postings if necessary, assuming that I am permitted to continue to do so.

    A) The Ceremonial Law of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy no longer applies. Because of what is written in the book of Galatians and Paul?s writings in the second chapter of Colossians, we have clear declarations that the ceremonial law is now in the field of Christian liberty. Paul uses a variety of examples to declare this and lists several portions of the law, following with the declaration that all of it was nailed to the Cross and has been removed. This belief is backed up further by the book of Romans and the speeches at the council of Jerusalem in Acts (Chapter 15), along with selected sayings by Christ concerning ceremonial practice. If we decide to pick and choose portions of the ceremonial law to continue in observance as God's will without clear relation of those parts to the commandments of God referenced in Romans, James and Revelations, then we place ourselves in danger of the ban of Galatians 113.gif.

    If this is the case, and most of you will find that your pastors will agree with this, unless you are members of the Seventh-day Adventist or similar denominations, then we have a big problem in the debate of homosexual sex as a sin. The problem is simple: The two clearest declarations of homosexual sex as a sin in the Bible are found in chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus. If the ceremonial law no longer applies, then neither do these.

    FURTHER: As the Old Law is dead, what then remains? In line with Paul's teachings in Galatians 5:14 and Christ's words in Mark 12:28-34, the Law of Love is the true Law which remains. That which is in line with it in the OT (example: The Ten Commandments) and that which is expounded upon in the NT remains. All else is ended, in accordance with Colossians 2 and Acts 15 and the book of Galatians.

    B) Sodom and Gomorrah do not pertain to homosexual sex, and the same can be said of the related story in Judges. The sins of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah are clearly huge. Have you ever seen a city in your lives where the whole male population tried to batter down doors so that they could gang rape guests to the city? I apologize for being so blunt and almost crude, but the point is not a pleasant one, and neither is the story. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were sinful beyond our understanding. These were foul places where such extreme forms of rape were accepted and where the closest thing to a righteous man offers up his daughters to their lusts. Further, the issue also comes up that this is a story more about the complete lack of hospitality and the brutality of the citizens. It is reading too far into the text to say that this passage says anything about homosexual sex. It is speaking of extreme cases that do not apply to homosexual sex.

    (Note: Ezekiel 16 is the passage which refers to the sins of Sodom/Gomorrah)

    C) The argument of creation (God created them Adam and Eve, so they are meant to be complimentary) suffers from a massive weakness. In chapter three of Genesis, we are told why a man leaves his father and mother to become one flesh with the woman that he loves. We are told similar things in chapter five of Paul's letter to the Ephesians. However, neither passage declares that this must be the only thing. Paul also speaks elsewhere of the joys of celibacy. This indicates that marriage is not required. Without proof that homosexual sex is considered a sin, there is no reason to automatically assume that 'Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve' is actually said in Scripture. The passages only say why heterosexual marriages occur, not that they must be the only ones.

    In fact, an important point must be made. Scripture speaks clearly about the need to save sex for marriage. If the Bible has not declared homosexual sex or marriage as sinful, then we have done a vast disservice in refusing homosexual couples the right to marriage. We are, in effect, trying to force them into sinful relationships out-of-wedlock.

    D) There are three passages that may speak on homosexual sex in the New Testament. Two are lists of sins, found in chapter six of Paul's first letter to the Corinthians and chapter one of his first letter to Timothy. The third, and most important, passage is found in the first chapter of Paul's letter to the Romans.

    1) The two lists are poorly translated in the cases of homosexuality. Three words are found in these passages that are used to relate to homosexual sex: Pornia, Arsenokoites and Malakoi. Pornia means pervert. That's all it really means. It refers to sexual perversion, but makes no statement as to what that perversion is. It is far too general to relate to homosexual sex. Malakoi refers to softness or effeminacy, with implications of perversion. The term is used to refer to a man who is too passionate and emotional, and who acts upon these. It relates to the Grecian concepts of gender identity. The man was not to be emotional in this fashion. If one stretches the meaning of the word, examples are found where Malakoi may refer to the 'bottom' partner of pederasty. This is a relationship wherein a teenage boy traded sexual favors with an older man in return for guidance and training. It was common within Greek society and accepted in Roman society. Arsenokoites is a compound word derived from the Greek words for man and bed. While this sounds like a clear reference to homosexuality to our modern ears (and the argument there is derived from the separate presence of the two words in the septuagint translation of Leviticus 20:13, not their fused presence), there is a problem. The word does not appear at any point prior to Paul's letters. To our knowledge, he created the term himself. Its usage in all other cases I am aware of either represents something akin to an aggressive sexual predator or, more commonly, the ?top? partner in pederasty. This is further amplified by the earliest translations of malakois and arsenokoites, the Latin Vulgate of St. Jerome. In the vulgate, they are translated essentially as male prostitute (Mascularum Concupitores), which is often considered to narrow in the modern era, but was the working definition (or at least the primary one.) for approaching 1,000 years, prior to the time of men such as Erasmus. At most these verses could possibly have listed pederasty as a crime, but not homosexual sex alone. You cannot read into the text the fact that, because something condemned includes another thing, that other thing is automatically condemned as well. For example, a person who breaks the commandment about not bearing false testimony against one's neighbor must communicate to do so. Communication is not condemned, is it? The condemnation of pederasty cannot be clearly related, even in consideration of Jewish morals that Paul is familiar with, to a condemnation of homosexual sex. Look at http://www.clgs.org/5/5_4_3.html for further details on the specifics of Arsenokoites and Malakoi.
    2) Romans 1:18-32 is the key to the argument. However, there are a series of problems with the classic interpretation of the passage.

    One, we rarely take verses 26-27 in context with the rest of the passage. The lusts spoken of are the result of godlessness and the refusal of the gospel of God. The godless ones are described as being given over to their passions. This loss of control is key and important to the Greeks and Romans Paul is writing to, and was considered a very bad thing. It is important to realize that the passage is not centered on homosexual relations, no matter how you interpret it.

    Two, the relationships are referred to as being unnatural. The term pushin is the Greek word for natural and refers, in general, to that which is according either to socially accepted morals or to one's innate nature. The society Paul is writing to, both Roman and Greek, considered homosexual relationships to be quite natural. What would have been considered unnatural to the Romans would specifically have been something where a citizen was 'on bottom.' Such a position degrades the citizen's status and was considered to be a horrible thing.

    Three, the shameful lusts that are spoken of are not specifically described. Unlike Leviticus, where they are listed, the passage assumes that its audience knows what is being spoken of. While Paul is a born and trained Jew, familiar with the ceremonial law, he is preaching to newly converted Christians in Rome and Greece. These people, though somewhat familiar with Jewish beliefs, could not have been considered familiar enough to assume that 'shameful lusts' meant what is said in Leviticus. Paul is not a man to leave explanations unclear. When necessary, he goes into great detail and repetition to make his point absolutely clear and understood. Therefore, by context it seems he is speaking to the Roman's understanding of shameful, the subjugation of a citizen for example. Further, pathos (lusts) does not necessitate a sexual connotation.

    Four, the fact that we have women doing things with women instead of men and that we have men doing things with men instead of women is clear from what Paul says in verses 26-27. However, Paul does not at any point say what is being done. He lacks the clarity of Leviticus. Any number of things could be occurring, and without a clear indication that the text is specifically speaking of homosexual sex acts on any level we are familiar with today we cannot claim that Romans 1 clearly declares that the ceremonial law still applies in this case.

    My arguments are quite basic. This is only an overview of them. I have far more detailed descriptions of the issues involved and will happily offer them. This argument is also not new. You can find websites offering similar interpretations themselves. I came to these conclusions, however, through prayer and consideration with friends, not a website. These positions, also, are hardly universally accepted. There is strong evidence in both directions with regards Romans 1. Some churches still make the claim that parts of the ceremonial law remain intact. There are strong arguments both for and against this.

    My single greatest point is this: Can you honestly declare something a sin when you cannot clearly show without serious contention that the Bible declares it to be a sin' When we look at the Ten Commandments, we know basically what they say and don't argue over them. Christ further explains them during his life, giving us more information about what they mean. We know these things to be sins, and there is little debate. Homosexual sex is found in the ceremonial laws and what few verses speak of it outside of that set of laws are hotly contested. How can we clearly state, based upon these facts, that homosexuality is indeed a sin?

    Either way throughout your decision keep in mind the benefits afforded to you by both parts of your life, your sexuality and your religion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,163 ✭✭✭homer911


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Hello Sitstill, I sympathise with your difficult situation.

    The Church of course welcomes gay people. Love the sinner, not the sin.
    I presume you know the Church teaches that homosexual acts are gravely sinful? Therefore commiting a sexual act with someone of the same sex is a mortal sin and what's more receiving Holy Communion in a state of mortal sin is a serious sacrilege (see 1 Cor 11:27-29).

    Father John Corapi once said that he and homosexual people had a lot in common; They're both called to celibacy. If you want to do God's will, that really is the only option you have. Of course that's easier said than done but which is more important, sexual pleasure or your salvation?

    Sorry if this sounds harsh or judgemental, I don't mean to be but I would would be commiting a sin if I said that you should continue as you are.

    May God bless you and give you the strength and courage to do the right thing.

    Noel.

    +1 from a non-Catholic Christian perspective


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    studiorat wrote: »
    The way I would see it is, the CC reckons:

    - It's OK as long as you don't have a physical side to the relationship. (could probably turn a blind eye to a relationship.)

    - It's OK as long as you don't seek to be married.

    - It's probably better if bringing up children is left to hetero-sexual couples.

    - And you can't be a Gay priest. Hetero-celibacy only.

    Outside of the official church dogma, you'll get ignorance or understanding the same as you will anywhere.

    That's pretty much the story alright.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Hello Sitstill, I sympathise with your difficult situation.

    The Church of course welcomes gay people. Love the sinner, not the sin.
    I presume you know the Church teaches that homosexual acts are gravely sinful? Therefore commiting a sexual act with someone of the same sex is a mortal sin and what's more receiving Holy Communion in a state of mortal sin is a serious sacrilege (see 1 Cor 11:27-29).

    Father John Corapi once said that he and homosexual people had a lot in common; They're both called to celibacy. If you want to do God's will, that really is the only option you have. Of course that's easier said than done but which is more important, sexual pleasure or your salvation?

    Sorry if this sounds harsh or judgemental, I don't mean to be but I would would be commiting a sin if I said that you should continue as you are.

    May God bless you and give you the strength and courage to do the right thing.

    Noel.

    This is all correct.

    However I do remember watching a documentary on the issue which claimed that the practice being outlawed was that of older men retaining younger men if not boys as lovers, a practice that still exists in parts of the world today, I saw an article a few years ago that it is still done, in smaller rural communities, I think it was in Malaysia ( could be wrong there ). From what I can remember they said adult male to adult male relationships were actually uncommon at the time, but the practice of a older man 'adopting' a younger male lover was widespread, even among the married. The younger males were seen as 'pure', and it was not looked upon as such a sin as being with a virgin girl. Perhaps what is mentioned in the Bible could actually be aimed at child sexual abuse, and not consensual adult homosexual relations. I don't know.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    sitstill wrote: »
    Thats for your response. But I think now I can see why every other gay person I know has totally rejected their faith.
    I think you need to ask yourself, do you want to do God's will or your own.

    Have you read Romans 1?
    24 Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    26 For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. 27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.

    or 1 Corinthians?
    9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, 10 Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

    or Mark 10?
    6 But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. 7 For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife. 8 And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh.

    Homosexual acts are also widely condemned in the Old Testament. Why should the New Testament be any different? God doesn't change His mind. Jesus didn't condone homosexual acts and as you can see He stated explicity that man and woman are created for each other. Do you think St. Paul is mistaken in his condemnation?

    P.S. Sorry if what I wrote comes across as judgemental or preachy. It's not for me to judge the state of your soul so I'm just giving my understanding of what the Church teaches. BTW, this isn't just a Catholic teaching. You'll find lots of other Christian churches who teach the same thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 520 ✭✭✭Bduffman


    I think the situation is that there is no problem with being gay, however as sex is for procreation only you shouldn't have sex.

    Except when couples use the rhythmn method. Or for couples who can't have children.
    But thats ok because they are hetrosexual.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    I don't pretend its easy nor do I believe in it I was just answering the question.

    Seems important!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    sitstill wrote: »
    I think it can be.

    Do you mind me asking how you reconcile the two?
    I am in a long-term monogomous relationship. I am not promiscuous.

    I assume by this then, that you feel homosexuality is not an issue, but promiscuity is? If you treat your monogomous homosexual relationship as a marriage, then there is no issue biblically speaking?
    Does Jesus not tell us that we should love each other?

    He tells us first and foremost to Love God, then to Love our neighbour. Though I'm not sure about the context you are using this advice? Could you expand?
    I think I do.

    Well that is the crux. Do you Love God? If you 'genuinely' add up the commands and advices we have been given by the prophets and NT writers, and 'honestly' conclude that homosexuality is not perverse to God then fair enough. I would like to know how you reconsile such a view though?
    I care for others and try to live as good a life as possible.

    Certainly an admirable quality in any person, be they Christian or not. What we are trying to address however, is reconsiling homosexuality with christianity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭anothernight


    Bduffman wrote: »
    Except when couples use the rhythmn method. Or for couples who can't have children.
    But thats ok because they are hetrosexual.

    And non-catholic christians. Afaik only catholics and maybe a few branches of protestantism say sex should only be practised for procreation purposes. That's why


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Afaik only catholics .... say sex should only be practised for procreation purposes.


    As a Catholic I have never been instructed that sex was for procreational reasons only. Sex is encouraged as an expression of love, as one of God's gift to us, as a natural expression of desire to be united with your husband or wife.

    The only proviso is that no unnatural methods of contraception are used.

    There is a very big difference.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭anothernight


    prinz wrote: »
    As a Catholic I have never been instructed that sex was for procreational reasons only. Sex is encouraged as an expression of love, as one of God's gift to us, as a natural expression of desire to be united with your husband or wife.

    The only proviso is that no unnatural methods of contraception are used.

    There is a very big difference.

    Oh, my apologies. I wasn't aware of that :o


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 825 ✭✭✭MatthewVII


    prinz wrote: »
    As a Catholic I have never been instructed that sex was for procreational reasons only. Sex is encouraged as an expression of love, as one of God's gift to us, as a natural expression of desire to be united with your husband or wife.

    The only proviso is that no unnatural methods of contraception are used.

    There is a very big difference.


    As a matter of interest, why is there a difference between natural and artificial contraception? Is it not seen as a deliberate attempt to avoid conception no matter how its done? It just seems like obeying the letter of the law but not the spirit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    MatthewVII wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, why is there a difference between natural and artificial contraception? Is it not seen as a deliberate attempt to avoid conception no matter how its done? It just seems like obeying the letter of the law but not the spirit.


    Well AFAIK the 'natural' methods are fairly recent in the grand scheme of things, because of pressure from Catholics regarding contraception.

    I think the Chuch just has a dim view of involving unnatural methods in what is essentially God's greatest gift, the ability to produce offspring. And sex is promoted and encouraged between married couples. I think its perfectly normal not to want a physical barrier between the two people, and interfering with hormones etc., isn't exactly free from problems.

    So the natural methods, don't involve any constraints on either party, or any possible side effects, there's no barrier between the couple etc.

    A lot of people have the misconception that the Catholic Church is anti-sex, or repressed and that, when in actual fact it's the opposite.

    Edit: Again just my opinion on why things are like they are. Need someone who knows the ins and outs of the Canon Law or whatnot to explain fully. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree on the reasoning.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭crotalus667


    Op

    Here is some thing you may be interested in, I was watching a documentary on it one of the scholars (not a gay guy) was explaining the origins of the word abomination long story short at the time the bible was written or translated (I cant remember which) it meant more of a “social fo par” than any thing else (the bible also say’s that eating shell fish is an abomination)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,587 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    Hi OP,

    I'm also gay and in a long term commited relationship. If you feel that you can live by the word of God, then good for you. Do you really need to feel accepted by other christians:confused: It's not gonna happen on here. I was raised caltholic and gave up my beliefs pretty quickly when i grew up as i realised i wanted to live my life for myself so now i'm just indifferent to God and religions. If you want to let God into your heart, then you shouldn't have to compromise who you are because that's how you were made. There a many abmoninations in the bible, and whether you want to read them literaly or not, is up to you.

    Best of luck.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    jaffa20 wrote: »
    Do you really need to feel accepted by other christians:confused:

    I don't feel the need to be accepted by other Christians. In fact, alot of my views make some feel that I'm not truly a christian. One thing I have in my views though is honesty. I'll be wrong about many things, but one thing is for sure, I'll have arrived at my views honestly. I can't say that that is what you are encouraging here though. Your advice below seems to be rather contradictory.
    I was raised caltholic and gave up my beliefs pretty quickly when i grew up as i realised i wanted to live my life for myself so now i'm just indifferent to God and religions. If you want to let God into your heart, then you shouldn't have to compromise who you are because that's how you were made. There a many abmoninations in the bible, and whether you want to read them literaly or not, is up to you.

    Best of luck.

    It 'seems' you are saying that you threw God out so that you could be a practicing homosexual, then you are suggesting that maybe God doesn't mind homosexuality and that the word abomination is mistranslated or the like. Whatever decision he, or anyone else makes for that matter, should be based on an honest process.


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