Back problem - who should i see?

Superdub2

Howdi,

Pulled something doing deadlifts with poor form in August 08. Went to the physio and eventually got it right to the point i can play ball again but i cant seem to do any weights without it getting quite sore the days after.

So while the physio has done a job, it hasnt sorted it completely and i was hoping somebody could point me in the direction of a specialist who could help?

It is my lower back which is the problem and the best way to describe it is that it felt like i pulled a disk but the pain was never that bad, even when it initially happened. However the physio reckoned it was damaged ligaments but i cant do any weights so i want to get it sorted!

johnny_knoxvile

Well im sure they could tell if your disc was out of place by feeling it. Ligaments are very sore when you damage them.

Physio Dynamics in Dundrum Town Centre are great chartered physios.
Or if you think its a disc maybe go to a good Osteopath and they can turn it for you.

Superdub2

johnny_knoxvile wrote: »

Well im sure they could tell if your disc was out of place by feeling it. Ligaments are very sore when you damage them.

Physio Dynamics in Dundrum Town Centre are great chartered physios.
Or if you think its a disc maybe go to a good Osteopath and they can turn it for you.

To be honest i dont know whats wrong, just said it felt like id have thought a slipped disk would feel like to try to illustrate what happened! It probabaly is ligament damage but it still hasnt been resolved so looking for a specialist

Ive been to a physio, and he is a very good one. I have no doubt in him and dont want the second opinion of a physio, looking for somebody who specialises who would have greater expertise

kevpants

If you are looking for a medical opinion and you are happy your physio did all he could do then go to your GP, maybe an MRI or referral to a specialist could be arranged.

Mink

I've a brilliant chiro that I go to who would help sort it out.
Don't know if you can claim back on visits to chiros, think you can only do that with physio & GP's. If you want the number PM me.

Burkatron

Mink wrote: »

I've a brilliant chiro that I go to who would help sort it out.
Don't know if you can claim back on visits to chiros, think you can only do that with physio & GP's. If you want the number PM me.

+1 on this or an Osteopath! I'd atleast give it a crack (no pun intended ) and let a reputablepractitioner of either disciplines asses you before you go down the GP/MRI/Orthopaedic surgeon route!!

Superdub2

Cheers lads, pm sent. So you reckon a chiro or osteopath could help me with my specific problem? Whats the dif between a chiropractor and an osteopath?

Parsley

Try the sports injury clinic in Santry. Went there with a bulging disc to a fella called Kiely (I think, not sure) and he was great, really knew his stuff. Expensive but I can pretty much gurantee you'll get sorted out.

Burkatron

Superdub2 wrote: »

Cheers lads, pm sent. So you reckon a chiro or osteopath could help me with my specific problem? Whats the dif between a chiropractor and an osteopath?

In short, the principles they're founded on, it'd take me hours to write something up on it!

http://www.cameronreidtraining.co.uk/index.php/news/story/osteopathy-vs-chiropractic/

Osteopathy vs. Chiropractic

In simple terms, both osteopaths and chiropractors tend to treat similar conditions with similar techniques. Especially in Britain, where the two evolved along parallel but converging paths, there is some overlap in approach. In general Chiropractors tend to concentrate on the spine for there diagnosis and treatment. Osteopaths always consider the spine but also the muscular and joint systems...
What is the difference between an Osteopath and a Chiropractor?

Rather than focusing on the individual components of the body, osteopaths and chiropractors view the body in a more holistic manner, as a self-contained, self-healing, fully interconnected unit. The first proponent of this philosophy, Andrew Taylor Still, is credited with founding osteopathy in America in 1874. Just twenty-one years later, a former student of Dr. Still, Daniel David Palmer, founded the chiropractic discipline1.
The philosophical and practical differences between Osteopaths and Chiropractors

The differences between osteopathy and chiropractic stem from a rather subtle variance in philosophy. Barrie Savory, D.O., in his acclaimed book The Good Back Guide, explains that Osteopaths subscribe to two axioms based on the concept of the body as a unique interdependent system. The first, ‘the rule of the artery is supreme,’ means that a healthy blood supply is likely to support a healthy bodily environment. Thus, osteopaths take circulation carefully into account when assessing patients. The second axiom, ‘structure governs function,’ concerns the fact that problems in the structure of the body, for example, too much tension in certain muscles or the misalignment of a bone, can inhibit the natural function of multiple bodily systems. Though the root of the word ‘osteopath’ means ‘bone,’ osteopaths do not actually treat bones. Rather, they use the bones as levers to improve the condition of other structures in the body like muscles, ligaments, tendons, fascia, and organs. By treating these structures, osteopaths can aid the body’s natural healing ability.
Chiropractors, on the other hand, tend to focus on the spine and the alignment of vertebrae as the primary means to relieving pain and tension throughout the body. The spine consists of the vertebrae, which are bone segments that protect the spinal cord, and the individual nerve branches stemming from it. These nerve branches exit between the bones, conveying important messages between the brain and the rest of the body. Because the vertebrae shift and move with everyday activity, they can misalign and interfere with the nerve messages travelling among them. This interference causes problems, and frequently pain, throughout the body2.
The primary objective for both osteopaths and chiropractors is, most frequently, to relieve aches and pain. However, osteopaths also treat a broader range of functional problems, such as disorders of the respiratory or digestive systems. /Both osteopaths and chiropractors treat more than just bones joints and soft tissues. By working with the nervous system and blood supply they are able to influence all of the bodies systems, making them capable of alleviating the symptoms of a number of diagnosed medical conditions, such as; asthma, stress, digestive disorders, period pain, migraine and many more.
How do these differences between Osteopaths and Chiropractors affect patients?

In many cases, patient experiences with osteopaths and chiropractors will be very similar; however, there are some differences. When diagnosing patients, osteopaths and chiropractors both use visual inspection (observation) and palpation (touch). Chiropractors frequently rely on more diagnostic procedures, such as X-rays, MRI scans, blood tests, and urine tests. Osteopaths tend to place more emphasis on the physical examination and will generally refer patients on for more diagnostic procedures if required.
The type of treatment a patient will receive at an osteopathic clinic can vary greatly. Osteopaths employ a number of techniques in order to influence the body’s innate healing system. These include; soft tissue, muscle work, joint articulation and mobilisation/manipulation. Some osteopaths work with and thereby influence organ function and movement (‘visceral osteopathy’) and movement of cerebrospinal fluid (‘cranial osteopathy’). The specific treatment will depend upon the patient’s unique circumstances. Osteopathic manipulation consists of positioning a joint into its close packed position and imparting a small but rapid impulse in order to separate the joint surfaces within their normal range of motion. This may produce a pop or a cracking noise; it is not a painful technique. The manipulation has the effect of freeing up any adhesions and encouraging better movement, it has a secondary, but very useful analgesic effect (pain relief).
In contrast, chiropractors tend to concentrate on influencing the nervous system by employing a technique called “adjustment,”. The actual technique is similar to that of osteopathic manipulation. The theory is that adjusting the vertebrae will allow it to return to its proper alignment along the spinal column and permit optimal nerve transmission. In an adjustment, the chiropractor applies pressure to the bone, unlocking it from its improper position3. The technique is not painful, though patients do sometimes hear “popping” noises. These are thought to be due to small pockets of gas being released from within the joint capsules. This is completely normal.
The length of treatment also typically varies between osteopaths and chiropractors. In general, chiropractic appointments tend to be shorter as the practitioner focuses on adjusting the spine (this does not mean to say that chiropractors don’t adjust areas other than the spine). However, chiropractors tend also to see patients more frequently, as the muscles connected to a misaligned vertebra can pull the bone back out of place, and it may take a few adjustments for the spine to settle into its proper alignment. Osteopaths tend to spend more time with a patient per visit, as their focus is somewhat broader and their treatment techniques are more varied. Osteopathic treatments also tend to be spaced out over a longer period of time.
Having described these differences, it is important to remember that both chiropractors and osteopaths address the same structures and use principally similar manipulative techniques. There are a huge number of variations between individual practitioners of both disciplines, from what they focus on to how they apply treatment. Each chiropractor and each osteopath is an individual with his or her own unique style of practice, and it is important for a patient to find a practice that fits his or her unique needs, regardless of the label.
1 Barrie Savory. The Good Back Guide (London: Century), 2006.
2 Letter from James W. Healey, D.C.
(Source http://www.osteopath-help.co.uk)

Parsley wrote: »

Try the sports injury clinic in Santry. Went there with a bulging disc to a fella called Kiely (I think, not sure) and he was great, really knew his stuff. Expensive but I can pretty much gurantee you'll get sorted out.

No you cant, it's a fantastic facility but I know people who have come out of there not impressed. I myself had a bad experience with one of the founders of the clinic when I was 16, it's limited like every clinic!

dvpower

Superdub2 wrote: »

Cheers lads, pm sent. So you reckon a chiro or osteopath could help me with my specific problem? Whats the dif between a chiropractor and an osteopath?

If you go to a chiropractor, you should check if he is a 'straight' or a 'mixer'. Straights have an unusual view of the world. They figure that (contrary to science) spine misalignment is responsible for most illness and realignment allows for proper energy flows in the body thus curing diseases.

Mixers tend to stick to back pain and there is evidence that chiropractic can be beneficial for back pain.

Not too sure about osteopaths, but it is an alternative therapy. I'd be inclined to look to mainstream medicine in the first instance.

Burkatron

dvpower wrote: »

If you go to a chiropractor, you should check if he is a 'straight' or a 'mixer'. Straights have an unusual view of the world. They figure that (contrary to science) spine misalignment is responsible for most illness and realignment allows for proper energy flows in the body thus curing diseases.

Mixers tend to stick to back pain and there is evidence that chiropractic can be beneficial for back pain.

Not too sure about osteopaths, but it is an alternative therapy. I'd be inclined to look to mainstream medicine in the first instance.

Oh yeah, should've mentioned this. Straights & mixers in Osteopathy are Orthodox and classical. Go to an Orthodox Osteopath, ask before you go for TTT!

G1032

Superdub2
Go to your GP and ask him/her to refer you for an MRI. An MRI will show what the problem is.
Had severe pain in my lower back/hip for a long time. Was getting treatment from an osteopath until he became reluctant to give any more treatment for fear of causing lasting damage (continually popping a disk in and out will eventually just wear it down he said).
Got MRI.......... it showed a bulging disc...........went to a consultant with MRI and got it sorted......

bobtjustice

I would suggest you revisit your physio or go see a new physical therapist. It sounds like you have either a muscle imbalance, where by there are other muscles compensating for the weakened muscle you "pulled" or you have a postural issue impossible to say for definate without actually seeing you though.
Osteopaths and Chiropractors are specialists in Spinal injuries and rehab not in soft tissue work. If you have herniated a disc or a developing an early onset spinal disorder (ankylosing spondylitis etc etc), you would be in agony every time you went to a dead lift position, let alone when you tried it with weights.

As you said you've pulled something, anything major you would be seriously restricted in movement, so most probably a muscle imbalance. Any physical therapist will take a full history and should be able to tell you how to be get back on track, and treat you if needed. If its something he or she can't treat they' tell will or should refer you to your GP or to hospital for an MRI.

Just my opinion, but I've seen injuries like yours before and the knock on effects and as a trainee physical therapist myself that'd be my initial diagnosis, hope it helps

Burkatron

bobtjustice wrote: »

I would suggest you revisit your physio or go see a new physical therapist. It sounds like you have either a muscle imbalance, where by there are other muscles compensating for the weakened muscle you "pulled" or you have a postural issue impossible to say for definate without actually seeing you though.
Osteopaths and Chiropractors are specialists in Spinal injuries and rehab not in soft tissue work. If you have herniated a disc or a developing an early onset spinal disorder (ankylosing spondylitis etc etc), you would be in agony every time you went to a dead lift position, let alone when you tried it with weights.

As you said you've pulled something, anything major you would be seriously restricted in movement, so most probably a muscle imbalance. Any physical therapist will take a full history and should be able to tell you how to be get back on track, and treat you if needed. If its something he or she can't treat they' tell will or should refer you to your GP or to hospital for an MRI.

Just my opinion, but I've seen injuries like yours before and the knock on effects and as a trainee physical therapist myself that'd be my initial diagnosis, hope it helps

bobtjustice, I agree with everything in your post bar what I highlighted. Out of interest, where did you form that opinion on Osteopaths? I know plenty of physical therapists & physio's in the U.k. who've continued their studies in a postgrad capacity in Osteopathy that would disagree with you! Osteopath's are holistic and don't specialise in 1 area!

bobtjustice

I phrased that wrong my apologies. Firstly I shouldn't have lumped in Osteopaths with Chiropractors. And i was focusing mainly on some techniques used, ie Cervical High Velocity low amplitude thrusting etc etc, that i don't necessarily favor but again thats just my opinion. However, i do actually plan to study Osteopathy at some point..provided I pass my current course.
Apologies if i offended any Osteo's on the forum!!!!

Superdub2

Cheers lads, some good advice hopefully!

Might pop back to my physio and lay it out for him that i want to do weights and that this is restricting me and see where he goes.

Maybe an MRI would be the best first option but i dont want to sit in a doctors office all day just to pay for 50 quid for a referral!

Burkatron

bobtjustice wrote: »

I phrased that wrong my apologies. Firstly I shouldn't have lumped in Osteopaths with Chiropractors. And i was focusing mainly on some techniques used, ie Cervical High Velocity low amplitude thrusting etc etc, that i don't necessarily favor but again thats just my opinion. However, i do actually plan to study Osteopathy at some point..provided I pass my current course.
Apologies if i offended any Osteo's on the forum!!!!

You studying Physical Therapy in the priory clinic by any chance? You're getting a fantastic base for the GOSC acredited Osteopathy courses in the U.k if that's the case! Fair play & good luck with the course!

bobtjustice

Burkatron wrote: »

You studying Physical Therapy in the priory clinic by any chance? You're getting a fantastic base for the GOSC acredited Osteopathy courses in the U.k if that's the case! Fair play & good luck with the course!

Yes that's right, priory clinic for the practical and Miltown institute for the theory. Its a great course, very tough but rewarding.
You wouldn't have anymore info about the GOSC courses in the UK per chance, sounds very interesting.
Cheers

p.s apologies for hi-jacking the thread op!

Burkatron

bobtjustice wrote: »

Yes that's right, priory clinic for the practical and Miltown institute for the theory. Its a great course, very tough but rewarding.
You wouldn't have anymore info about the GOSC courses in the UK per chance, sounds very interesting.
Cheers

p.s apologies for hi-jacking the thread op!

Yeah duder, just shoot me a pm with any questions on them. I did 3 out of 4 years of 1 and am looking to go back and finish in the next couple of years...hopefully! I have loads of contacts over there so anything I can't answer I can get the info for you!