What if your child...

Genghiz Cohen

Back again, to ask more of the awkward questions that need thinking about.

Recap;
I'm Atheist.
Not Trolling.
Provoking reasonable debate with reasoning.
Not converting ITT.

Picture this, your 14-17 year old child comes home in a tear. Won't talk won't eat, keeps to their room, refuses to answer questions.

Later that night sits both you and your spouse down.
"Mom, Dad, I think I'm gay..."

What do you do?

prinz

What kind of reply are you waiting for.. exorcism? What a totally random hypothetical scenario to post on this forum. Could anyone honestly answer that question without being in the situation - and by that I mean anyone, Christian and others.

Zombrex

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

I'm Atheist.
Not Trolling.
Provoking reasonable debate with reasoning.
Not converting ITT.

Picture this, your 14-17 year old child comes home in a tear. Won't talk won't eat, keeps to their room, refuses to answer questions.

Later that night sits both you and your spouse down.
"Mom, Dad, I think I'm gay..."

What do you do?

Er, I think you are in the wrong forum. There is a LGB forum that might offer better advice for how to talk to your son.

MatthewVII

Wicknight wrote: »

Er, I think you are in the wrong forum. There is a LGB forum that might offer better advice for how to talk to your son.

I think the OP was looking for how Christians would deal with the issue, primarily (presumably) how they would deal with the conflict of their religion and the happiness of their child.

Zombrex

MatthewVII wrote: »

I think the OP was looking for how Christians would deal with the issue, primarily (presumably) how they would deal with the conflict of their religion and the happiness of their child.

Oh, right.

Well perhaps he should have asked that. It sounded like he was looking for advince on how to talk to his 14 year old about being gay. It is a very specific hypothetical

MatthewVII

Wicknight wrote: »

Oh, right.

Well perhaps he should have asked that. It sounded like he was looking for advince on how to talk to his 14 year old about being gay. It is a very specific hypothetical

I can't remember the last time my 14-17 year old son came out me. His name was somewhere between John-Lawrence. I think he was a boy anyway. Interestingly, the OP doesn't say a gender. I wonder why jumped to the "son" conclusion?

Genghiz Cohen

And the prize for getting the point of the thread goes to Matthew,

I don't have kids, and I'm atheist. I doesn't make sense for me to come to the Christianity forum to ask for help, that much should have been obvious. (should)

prinz wrote:

What kind of reply are you waiting for.. exorcism? What a totally random hypothetical scenario to post on this forum. Could anyone honestly answer that question without being in the situation - and by that I mean anyone, Christian and others.

I don't know how devout Christians would act and I am interested to find out, the same way I wanted to hear Christians views on other religions in a previous thread.

What I want is for Christians to put some thought into it and come out with reasoned replys. Put some thought into it, imagine it happening. Your God gave you an imagination for just this kind of situation.

robindch

MatthewVII wrote: »

I wonder why jumped to the "son" conclusion?

Because most religious people seem to have far, far less of a problem with female homosexuality than male homosexuality?

Genghiz Cohen

Not to mention it's way hotter.... :pac:

anothernight

I don't have children, but if I did have a kid and they (be it a boy or a girl) told me they think they're gay/lesbian, well I don't believe these things can be changed so I'd just let them know I'd love them anyway. Whatever they did with their lives from that point on is up to them, and I can't actually judge their actions.
Would I like it if I did happen to have homosexual kids? Not really, but if they were, what could I possibly do?

Genghiz Cohen

anothernight wrote: »

I don't have children, but if I did have a kid and they (be it a boy or a girl) told me they think they're gay/lesbian, well I don't believe these things can be changed so I'd just let them know I'd love them anyway. Whatever they did with their lives from that point on is up to them, and I can't actually judge their actions.
Would I like it if I did happen to have homosexual kids? Not really, but if they were, what could I possibly do?

Wouldn't you be concerned for their soul and all that? Wouldn't it be your Christian duty to help save them from an eternity of damnation?

Splendour

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Back again, to ask more of the awkward questions that need thinking about.

Recap;
I'm Atheist.
Not Trolling.
Provoking reasonable debate with reasoning.
Not converting ITT.

Picture this, your 14-17 year old child comes home in a tear. Won't talk won't eat, keeps to their room, refuses to answer questions.

Later that night sits both you and your spouse down.
"Mom, Dad, I think I'm gay..."

What do you do?

I would do what my Father (God) has done for me and accept him/her as they are. I would support and advice as best I could or as it is asked for.

Genghiz Cohen

Splendour wrote: »

I would do what my Father (God) has done for me and accept him/her as they are. I would support and advice as best I could or as it is asked for.

Same question as above to you.

BibleGateway.com wrote:

Leviticus 18:22 (New International Version)

22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

I'm sure the same would apply to women.

grizzly

I would pray with them and then explain that as long as they didn't practice any homosexual acts they would have a place by Gods side

Rev. Kitchen

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman.

Is that less of a rule and more of a sex tip ?

Genghiz Cohen

grizzly wrote: »

I would pray with them and then explain that as long as they didn't practice any homosexual acts they would have a place by Gods side

What if they had done so already?
What if they showed no remorse?
Getting grim here, but these things may happen.

Rev. Kitchen wrote: »

Is that less of a rule and more of a sex tip ?

Depends.

grizzly

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

What if they had done so already?
What if they showed no remorse?
Getting grim here, but these things may happen.

I would pray that the child's soul was not totally corrupt. It would not be my place to forgive, that would be for our Lords good grace.

Genghiz Cohen

grizzly wrote: »

I would pray that the child's soul was not totally corrupt. It would not be my place to forgive, that would be for our Lords good grace.

Would you still love them as before?

anothernight

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Wouldn't you be concerned for their soul and all that? Wouldn't it be your Christian duty to help save them from an eternity of damnation?

Concerned for their soul, yes. But my duty would have already been done. I'd have taught my children about how to be saved. Whether they took my advice or not is up to them. You can't save anyone yourself. It must be their decision.
Besides, who am I to say God wouldn't accept them? We all sin, and God forgives us. Why should I think that I'll be forgiven for my sins, but my gay son won't, even if he does accept Jesus as his personal saviour?

prinz

anothernight wrote: »

I don't have children, but if I did have a kid and they (be it a boy or a girl) told me they think they're gay/lesbian, well I don't believe these things can be changed so I'd just let them know I'd love them anyway. Whatever they did with their lives from that point on is up to them, and I can't actually judge their actions.
Would I like it if I did happen to have homosexual kids? Not really, but if they were, what could I possibly do?

Pretty much same for me.

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Wouldn't you be concerned for their soul and all that? Wouldn't it be your Christian duty to help save them from an eternity of damnation?

Everyone is given a soul and is unique. As such they are to a large degree responsible for the fate of their own soul.My job is not to coerce anybody.

Genghiz Cohen

anothernight wrote: »

Concerned for their soul, yes. But my duty would have already been done. I'd have taught my children about how to be saved. Whether they took my advice or not is up to them. You can't save anyone yourself. It must be their decision.
Besides, who am I to say God wouldn't accept them? We all sin, and God forgives us. Why should I think that I'll be forgiven for my sins, but my gay son won't, even if he does accept Jesus as his personal saviour?

To be forgiven you must repent, if your child doesn't repent will they be forgiven?
No one can say yes/no on whether your son will be forgiven but the Bible directly states that homosexuality is an abomination.
If he is homosexual and doesn't repent, it isn't looking good.

grizzly

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Would you still love them as before?

I'd love the child not the sin.

anothernight

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

To be forgiven you must repent, if your child doesn't repent will they be forgiven?
No one can say yes/no on whether your son will be forgiven but the Bible directly states that homosexuality is an abomination.
If he is homosexual and doesn't repent, it isn't looking good.

That's very true, but again, what would I be expected to do?
Even if my child came home one day and told me he's an atheist, the most I could do is pray for them, but other than that I'd be completely powerless.
It's not up to me to make choices for other people, even if they are my offspring.

Consider it this way: I've committed a fair amount of sins. Should I then blame my parents, knowing that I was the one who made the choice? (I'm a teenager btw, so still under parent rule)

Fanny Cradock

robindch wrote: »

Because most religious people seem to have far, far less of a problem with female homosexuality than male homosexuality?

I don't believe that it is simple a religious thing. Most people irrespective of their beliefs seem to have far less of a problem with female homosexuality than male homosexuality.

@ Genghiz

What could one do? I would have to accept my child as they where.

robindch

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I don't believe that it is simple a religious thing. Most people irrespective of their beliefs seem to have far less of a problem with female homosexuality than male homosexuality.

Yes, that's the point -- religious morality is simply nothing more than a codification of people's natural, biologically-created inclinations.

Genghiz Cohen

Nobody has mentioned those Gay Camp things Love in Action Site
Would any of you send your child to be 'healed'?

anothernight

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Nobody has mentioned those Gay Camp things Love in Action Site
Would any of you send your child to be 'healed'?

I personally wouldn't. I can't imagine how they would help at all, other than make my child resent my belief system.

Fanny Cradock

robindch wrote: »

Yes, that's the point -- religious morality is simply nothing more than a codification of people's natural, biologically-created inclinations.

That isn't an impossibility in my book. I don't necessarily say that morals aren't biologically grounded.

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Nobody has mentioned those Gay Camp things Love in Action Site
Would any of you send your child to be 'healed'?

I'm getting the feeling that you really want someone to say yes.

Handsome Bob

This is a question that shouldn't be exclusive to just religious people. My dad is an atheist, but I know how he'd react if he ever found out one of his sons were gay. Stereotypes FTW again in the religion and spirituality forums.

prinz

Blatant attempt at trying to get someone to respond controversially.

Fanny Cradock

prinz wrote: »

Blatant attempt at trying to get someone to respond controversially.

Benefit of doubt and all that. I'll be keeping a close on this one, however.

Goduznt Xzst

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I don't believe that it is simple a religious thing. Most people irrespective of their beliefs seem to have far less of a problem with female homosexuality than male homosexuality.

I think its because when they gagoogidy theres no googus to gashmoygady their gaflavity :pac:

OP, in fairness, irrespective of faith, atheists included, if a person did have a problem with their child being gay they aren't going to admit to it on a public forum. Admitting to homophobia, even if its religiously motivated, is about as bad as admitting to being a racist. I know a few older Christians who used to openly proclaim their disgust about homosexuality who now merely say "it is for God to decide how those people will be judged"

prinz

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I think its because when they gagoogidy theres no googus to gashmoygady their gaflavity :pac:

Couldn't put it much better myself :pac:.

I wonder are there any more sticks to rattle this cage. We've had 'healing', 'camps', 'duty to save their souls'.... whatever next? Chastity belts perhaps :pac:

Phototoxin

prinz wrote: »

Blatant attempt at trying to get someone to respond controversially.

well maybe if we post what he's looking for he will go away:

*ahem*

CASTRATE HIM!
BURN HIM UPON A ****** OF WOOD!
EXORCISE HIM!
SUFFER NOT THE UNCLEAN TO LIVE!!
ER... BURN HIM!?

Seriously though I think that most christians in this country are level headed enough.

Splendour

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Wouldn't you be concerned for their soul and all that? Wouldn't it be your Christian duty to help save them from an eternity of damnation?

If the child was a Christian, I would talk with them pray about it with them. However, if the child was not a Christian I would be more concerned with their soul than their sexual orientation, and would pray for them to be saved.


Btw, if my child was a hetrosexual and sleeping with a member of the opposite sex, the above would also apply...

Why are non Christians obsessed with homosexuality above other sins?

Húrin

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Wouldn't you be concerned for their soul and all that? Wouldn't it be your Christian duty to help save them from an eternity of damnation?

According to Christianity, nobody is damned for being gay. People are damned for rejecting Jesus. It is a pity that atheists think that Christians view homosexuality as the ultimate sin but considering how some loudmouth Christians talk about it, this is not surprising.

robindch wrote: »

Yes, that's the point -- religious morality is simply nothing more than a codification of people's natural, biologically-created inclinations.

Way to try to open a can of worms!

MatthewVII

Splendour wrote: »

Why are non Christians obsessed with homosexuality above other sins?

I guess it's one of the few that isn't obviously morally repugnant to an atheist. For example, thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not steal are pretty hard to argue against. Homosexuality is one of those ones that I as an atheist see no moral objection to and yet it is condemned. It puzzles me as to why God would be against homosexuality without giving a good reason (apart from the fact that he's god, doesn't need a reason, is unfathomable and unknowable - but that's no reason to discriminate against people in the here and now)

TheInquisitor

MatthewVII wrote: »

I guess it's one of the few that isn't obviously morally repugnant to an atheist. For example, thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not steal are pretty hard to argue against. Homosexuality is one of those ones that I as an atheist see no moral objection to and yet it is condemned. It puzzles me as to why God would be against homosexuality without giving a good reason (apart from the fact that he's god, doesn't need a reason, is unfathomable and unknowable - but that's no reason to discriminate against people in the here and now)

My main reason as an atheist who's against homosexuality is the simple reason that all lifeforms ultimate goal is to reproduce. Homosexuals cannot reproduce, and any of those that use invitro fertilization etc, are just messing up their kids lives by bringing them up in an abnormal environment.

Dimitri

TheInquisitor thats not a very good reason at all imo, if we all were gay and if many of us had children this way than it wouldn't be an abnormal environment.

On topic i always thought that homosexual acts as opposed to being homosexual were a sin and as such if a child came home and informed a christian parent they were gay it would probably be the same if the child came home to an atheist parent as in religion would not necessarily be a factor in how they react, unless of course they decide to pray with the child before responding as one poster said they would, but i'm assuming praying with their child/children and others is something they do on occasion.

TheInquisitor

Dimitri wrote: »

TheInquisitor thats not a very good reason at all, if we all were gay and if many of us had children this way than it wouldn't be an abnormal environment.

On topic i always thought that homosexual acts as opposed to being homosexual were a sin and as such if a child came home and informed a christian parent they were gay it would probably be the same if the child came home to an atheist parent as in religion would not necessarily be a factor in how they react, unless of course they decide to pray with the child before responding as one poster said they would.

Well then Dimiti we must agree to disagree because the simple fact is we are not all gay and homosexual people with kids are an abnormal family. Would homosexual parents try to raise their kids to be homosexual. Secondly there was never a chance that we could all be gay because if we were then there would be no human population.

I apologise if im starting to get off topic now!!

robindch

Extensive peer-reviewed, published research suggests that kids who are brought up by lesbian or gay-male parents are none the worse for it, and occasionally, rather the better. The evidence-based American Psychological Association has published a good guide to current research and research findings:

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/lgparenting.pdf

In general, one of the largest issues that such kids have is the widespread cultural expectation that lesbian or gay-male parents are bad, which has nothing at all to do with the reality of how good or bad they actually are.

A kid's gender-identification -- one of the largest rallying-points for the anti-gay parenting movement -- has been shown to be unaffected by the sexual orientation of the parents.

There's a lot more information and research findings up here:

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/lgparenthome.html

Dimitri

Well i could be way off here but i thought your born homosexual bi sexual stright or somewhere leaning someway but you really don't get to choose, in which case i'd imagine a homosexual couple who were possibily ridiculed etc when coming out would have a far deeper understanding of this and as such would be far less likely to try and raise their children to "gay". Though i have to admit i'm curious to know how that would work out, i'm having visions of comical steryotypes taking their son dancing when all he wants to do is play soccer or something equally sterotypical and possibly offensive though i'm not sure to who!:)

robindch

Splendour wrote: »

Why are non Christians obsessed with homosexuality above other sins?

We're not obsessed, just concerned that a significant section of the population could seriously entertain such an irrational prejudice which is so obviously unfair and which causes so many people so much unhappiness.

Dimitri

I can see a rationale behind most sins and i can understand if someone was walking the eatrh trying to make us better people why they'd threaten us with the unimaginable for not obeying them but homosexuality is certainly one that i never quite got. I gues its part of the mystery though.

TheInquisitor

robindch wrote: »

Extensive peer-reviewed, published research suggests that kids who are brought up by lesbian or gay-male parents are none the worse for it, and occasionally, rather the better. The evidence-based American Psychological Association has published a good guide to current research and research findings:

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/lgparenting.pdf

In general, one of the largest issues that such kids have is the widespread cultural expectation that lesbian or gay-male parents are bad, which has nothing at all to do with the reality of how good or bad they actually are.

A kid's gender-identification -- one of the largest rallying-points for the anti-gay parenting movement -- has been shown to be unaffected by the sexual orientation of the parents.


There's a lot more information and research findings up here:

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/lgparenthome.html

Well ive never been one to hide that fact when im wrong. Duly corrected!! Interesting article

MatthewVII

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Well then Dimiti we must agree to disagree because the simple fact is we are not all gay and homosexual people with kids are an abnormal family. Would homosexual parents try to raise their kids to be homosexual.

You're right, we're not all gay. Because homosexuals are a minority doesn't mean that we should discriminate against them

Homosexuals with children are only an abnormal family in your mind and in what society has delineated as a family unit. I'm sure not everyone (including me) agrees with you.

Would homosexuals try to raise their kids to be homosexual? No, that is an incredibly homophobic statement. You're treating homosexuals like some sort of brainwashing cult who are trying to pervert youth. Do straight couples strive to bring up their children as straight? No, they provide for them like parents do, give them what they need to grow up, and then support them in their life choices.

I can't help but feel a bit disturbed by how negatively you portray gay people.

prinz

robindch wrote: »

We're not obsessed, just concerned that a significant section of the population could seriously entertain such an irrational prejudice which is so obviously unfair and which causes so many people so much unhappiness.

Wait, sorry maybe i got this wrong but are you talking about homosexuals or Christians?

prinz

MatthewVII wrote: »

Homosexuals with children are only an abnormal family in your mind and in what society has delineated as a family unit. I'm sure not everyone (including me) agrees with you.

Well that and evolution of course.

MatthewVII wrote: »

Would homosexuals try to raise their kids to be homosexual? .

I have posted on this topic before, specifically the number of children I saw being involved in the Gay Pride Parade this year. I find it a bit disturbing to see a small boy no more than 5 wearing a t-shirt proclaiming "Looking for Mr. Right", as I saw on O'Connell Street, and being exposed to that sort of sexualised environment.

On a side note I don't particularly agree with the GPP in general for different reasons, but that's a separate issue.

Dimitri

Prinz i'd be inclined to agree with you there about the 5 yr old in a gay pride parade with th t-shirt ,there comes a time when a child needs to be made aware of sex sexuality and the sexualisiation of the world we live in (both in its so so good and in its bad ways also) but 5 is just too young for my liking. There needs to be a time in every childs life where they are unaware of the pleasures and the complications pressures and divisions caused by this and allowed to lead simple little lives.

But on the other hand in thinking as i type @5 would the child have any idea whats going on and would they care or would they simply be caught up in the ceremony and excitment of the parade, and would this have any bearing at all in anyway on them discovering their own sexuality when their older other than them being quite confident that whatever they are they'll be accepted by their family?

prinz

Maybe, maybe not. Still in my mind it's not appropriate to involve children in the parade itself. Same way I wouldn't agree with people involving kids in a similarly overtly heterosexual environment.

Dimitri

Fair point but would there be a similarily overtly hetero environment though, the gay pride parade is something i always viewed as a very unique and odd spectacle? With homosexuality simply being a way of life no different to any othe i never saw a reason for celebrating it except as an excuse to PARTY which in many respects is good enough for me! but still it remains for me unparrelled?