Social Welfare

Coz

Hi All,

Not sure what the correct forum is for this so please feel free to move.

My fiancée and I have just had dealings with the Social Welfare Department and we are extremely confused and perplexed. We would appreciate any advice you can give us.

We are currently renting together in an apartment. My fiancée is unemployed at present and she approached Social Welfare to see if there are any benefits available to her.

When applying she was asked to produce one of my payslips, as Social Welfare regard us as one household. Based on the amount I earn, she is not entitled to any payments. This is despite the fact that we are struggling to meet bills on my salary alone.

We contacted Citizens advice on this and they confirm this to be correct.

A reasonable person would then think that by this rationale I should be entitled to claim my fiancées tax credits given that she is being denied payment based on what I earn, but lo and behold, Revenue regard us as two separate households as we are not married and therefore I am not entitled to claim her credits.

With the looming health levy and income levy increases, we are going to find ourselves in serious financial difficultly at the end of this month.

Is there course of action available to us?

Soldie

You might have more luck posting this in the 'Personal Issues' forum.

Victor

Or here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=670

Yes, you are doubly done over. Such is the system. Whatever about couples, its particularly bad at discriminating against unmarried families.

On a more practical note, try the local community welfare officers (usually in the local health centre) to see if there is anything else she might be entitled to, like rent allowance.

kelle

This sounds ridiculous. If two non-related people are shaing a house and one becomes unemployed, does SW look for the wageslip of the other housesharer? I should imagine not. Why does a ring on a finger change everything?
An engagement is not an official contract, unlike a marriage. Did SW actually ask if she was engaged?

Victor

Thread moved from Politics to Personal Issues.

Oh, look at what you are spending you money on also, if you have to, talk to MABS www.mabs.ie

Beta Ray Bill

Hi OP

I'm pretty sure you can claim her TAX Credits
I think you need to apply for a social partnership or something like that, my mate has done it and he can claim tax back on his earnings because she is out of work.

He has a child with this girl though so I'm not sure if that changes anything (Logically it shouldn't, but time and time again our legislation is very far behind and out dated in this country)

I'll find out the name of the Form you need to fill out and then post back on here.

G.

Coz

kelle wrote: »

This sounds ridiculous. If two non-related people are shaing a house and one becomes unemployed, does SW look for the wageslip of the other housesharer? I should imagine not. Why does a ring on a finger change everything?
An engagement is not an official contract, unlike a marriage. Did SW actually ask if she was engaged?

They asked if she was co-habitating. At the time she didn't see any point in lying to them.

Victor wrote:

Oh, look at what you are spending you money on also, if you have to, talk to MABS www.mabs.ie

Like everyone else we're watching every cent Victor. It's when my take home pay is reduced at the end of the month that it will become a problem.

Beta Ray Bill

The above is all correct in terms of what the OP said.

My mate was only able to claim tax credits of his partner after being in a social partnership for over a year.

what she can do though is apply for Job seekers benefit.
Also if you have a child you can claim tax relief for that too.

Job seekers benefit might be the best way to go though for the moment mate

Hope this helps you.

G.

Victor

grahambo, what you may be thinking of is a maintenance payment, usually when the parents are apart and one does the bulk of the child care.

Beta Ray Bill

I cant be 100% sure. I can only go off of what my mate has told me.

He said jobseekers benefit would be the best route for the OP's partner.

every route is worth exploring though right?

LegacyUser

Hi Op,

Im in the same boat, its humiliating for me because i like to pay my way!

I have no job and he has to pay for everything right now because he has a wage over a certain amount,

my boyfriend should be able to claim my tax credits at least,


I think it encourages couples to lie, and its not fair if you cant afford to live as much as the next person.

Gregor Samsa

grahambo wrote: »

My mate was only able to claim tax credits of his partner after being in a social partnership for over a year.

"Social Partnership" is the process by which Unions, business representatives and Government negotiate national strategies concerning pay and work conditions.

You appear to be thinking of something along the lines of "Civil Partnership", where the couples can have the State recognise certain rights and responsibilities concerning their relationship without them getting married, but there is currently no provision for Civil Partnership in Ireland. Similarly, "common-law marriage" has no legal recognition in Ireland.

For Social Welfare purposes, once you're "cohabitating" (and are not just co-tenants), then your joint income is taken into account. I found myself in this situation a number of years ago.

For Revenue purposes, "cohabitating" means nothing, and you're marital status determines how your tax credits can be used, whether the couple are living together or not.

Unmarried couples are severely discriminated against regarding rights and protections in this country.

(Two possible solutions are to lie about your domestic arrangements or get married, but I'll leave it to others to determine which would be the more serious predicament to be in.)

spank_inferno

Hey OP

Get your fiance to go back and say "I lost my job So I need rent allowence"

Social welfare officer: "do you live with someone"?

Answer: "No"

There isnt any secret registry of co-habitation
or a database of those who have "popped the question" so they cant prove otherwise.

How do you think the single mothers of Ireland manage it?

Executive Steve

never ever ever tell the dole you're anything but single unless you're married.

John Mason

spank_inferno wrote: »

Hey OP

Get your fiance to go back and say "I lost my job So I need rent allowence"

Social welfare officer: "do you live with someone"?

Answer: "No"

There isnt any secret registry of co-habitation
or a database of those who have "popped the question" so they cant prove otherwise.

How do you think the single mothers of Ireland manage it?

this is fraud

OP you and your gf are living together. therefore she is not entitled to any social welfare funding. is there a reason why you think this should be different for you then for everyone else?

Nevyn

spank_inferno
Advocating someone to commit an illegal act such as fraud is not permitted on this site.
Please read the charter and post with in the rules.

carolmon

ok technically it's fraud but why should people be caught between two different depts of the same government and be treated in two conflicting ways? ie social welfare treats you the same as a married couple without the marriage cert (even though you're legally single) but revenue treats you as two single people until you have the marriage cert.

Strikes me as having it both ways and it's sure not benefitting co-habiting couple, but government coffers.
It's discrimination pure and simple and yet another example of the hypocrisy and ineptitude of our government. More and more couples are going to be caught by this loophole in this recession despite having worked and paid taxes.

Makes me so angry!

LegacyUser

carolmon wrote: »

ok technically it's fraud but why should people be caught between two different depts of the same government and be treated in two conflicting ways? ie social welfare treats you the same as a married couple without the marriage cert (even though you're legally single) but revenue treats you as two single people until you have the marriage cert.

Strikes me as having it both ways and it's sure not benefitting co-habiting couple, but government coffers.
It's discrimination pure and simple and yet another example of the hypocrisy and ineptitude of our government. More and more couples are going to be caught by this loophole in this recession despite having worked and paid taxes.

Makes me so angry!

Don't have my boards password here at work.

This is the same in a lot of European countries and is not unique to Ireland. I live in Germany and was in the exact same predicament not so long ago. My girlfriend had finished college and was unable to find any work and as she was living with me, had no stamps and I was considered to be earning too much she was not entitled to a cent, not even rent allowance. And to make matters worse, over here health insurance is compulsory so I was having to pay that for her. Money was running out quick at the time and the only real option we could see was to go the registry office and get married so we could get the tax breaks. Luckily she was in a store one day and her mum made a cheeky comment about any chance they might have a job going and they actually did but hadn't even put the sign on the window yet. It was only a few hours a week but it was all we needed to pay the bills.

OP, chin up and keep eyes and ears open. Even in bad times you will be surprised where something will pop up. If your fiancée goes door to door to all the companies/shops she may get some luck, even a small job for €50 a week can make all the difference.

Coz

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

this is fraud

OP you and your gf are living together. therefore she is not entitled to any social welfare funding. is there a reason why you think this should be different for you then for everyone else?

I never stated it should be different for me. It shouldn't be like this for anyone. If SW want to treat us as a married couple then Revenue should do the same, and let me claim her tax credits.

Can you explain to me in rational terms why the system is set up in this way? I'll wager you can't.

If we weren't engaged she'd be entitled to SW Payments?!? There's not a lick of sense in it.

Coz

phutyle wrote: »

(Two possible solutions are to lie about your domestic arrangements or get married, but I'll leave it to others to determine which would be the more serious predicament to be in.)

We plan on getting married but we're not going to bring the date foward just so she can sign on or I can claim her credits.

John Mason

Coz wrote: »

Can you explain to me in rational terms why the system is set up in this way? I'll wager you can't.

yes, i can because the irish consitution favours marriage and the family over single people.


the rules and regulations were all set up when it was morally outrages for people to "live in sin" . The government wouldn't pay people with dodgy morals.

also it is to stop single parents moving partners into their houses and yet are still claiming single parents rent allowance even though technically they are not single anymore

it has always been like this. this isnt new. have you done anything in the past to fight this rules ? or was it a case of it doesnt effect me, so i dont care? and now it effects you, you go off on a rant.

carolmon

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

yes, i can because the irish consitution favours marriage and the family over single people.



it has always been like this. this isnt new. have you done anything in the past to fight this rules ? or was it a case of it doesnt effect me, so i dont care? and now it effects you, you go off on a rant.

So do you support this inequity then?

would you be okay if it was an employer discriminating against single/ married people so?
We have laws to prevent discrimination in this country yet our rulers are obviously exempt from these laws and seem to have no legal impetus to make sure that all government departments are operating from a similar policy viewpoint.
Most people don't even know about these situations until they effect them personally.

Wibbs

OK this is not a forum for debating the morals of the law as it stands. Please take it to humanities or politics. Not here. It's also not the place to encourage unlawful actions either. Thanks.

carolmon

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

the rules and regulations were all set up when it was morally outrages for people to "live in sin" . The government wouldn't pay people with dodgy morals. .

Not applicable now though as the government will pay people with "dodgy morals" from one government department - Social Welfare.
This suits the government as the combined rate for an unemployed co-habiting couple is less than two single person payments.

The constitutional role of upholding the traditional family doesn't seem to come into play here at all..................



(sorry Wibbs just saw warning but wouldn't mind continuing the debate elsewhere, best of luck OP)

calex71

Surely the OP's girlfriend can get jobseekers benifit as its not means tested and meets the required prsi contributions etc?

It can be claimed for up to 15 months before you need to apply for the means tested jobseekers allowance.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/unemployed-people/unemployment_benefit

MisterMonkey

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

yes, i can because the irish consitution favours marriage and the family over single people.

he asked you to explain in rational terms. the above is clearly not rational

Coz

MisterMonkey wrote: »

he asked you to explain in rational terms. the above is clearly not rational

And it looks like I won the bet!

pink fluffy bunny wrote:

The government wouldn't pay people with dodgy morals.

Are you really questioning my morals or is that just a throw away remark?

pink fluffy bunny wrote:

the rules and regulations were all set up when it was morally outrages for people to "live in sin"

So you agree that times have changed? Why hasn't the legislature kept up with the times?

pink fluffy bunny wrote:

also it is to stop single parents moving partners into their houses and yet are still claiming single parents rent allowance even though technically they are not single anymore

We're not claiming that. We don't have children.

pink fluffy bunny wrote:

it has always been like this. this isnt new. have you done anything in the past to fight this rules ? or was it a case of it doesnt effect me, so i dont care? and now it effects you, you go off on a rant.

Firstly, it's hardly a rant. I asked for other peoples opinions on what I deemed to be an unbalance in the system.

Secondly, it's seems that other people here weren't aware of this inequality before I posted here. Do you really expect me to trudge though pages of legislation just to make sure there's something out there that might effect me?

I suppose I should go read up about beef quotas even though I'm not a farmer, just in case!!

(sorry Wibbs but I just couldn't let this one lie)

kelle

I have been mulling over this thread since Tuesday, and I am still amazed at what I read - you certainly learn something new every day!

But it made me wonder - how do SW define co-habiting? How do they enforce the rule? Do they call to your flat and check how many beds are there and the condition of the mattresses, or send spies out to see if you kiss/cuddle? Two friends of mine shared a flat with one double bed, if one lost her job would the other have been expected to support her?

It just doesn't make any sense to me, considering the only difference is the affection you have for each other!

Coz

kelle wrote: »

I have been mulling over this thread since Tuesday, and I am still amazed at what I read - you certainly learn something new every day!

But it made me wonder - how do SW define co-habiting? How do they enforce the rule? Do they call to your flat and check how many beds are there and the condition of the mattresses, or send spies out to see if you kiss/cuddle? Two friends of mine shared a flat with one double bed, if one lost her job would the other have been expected to support her?

It just doesn't make any sense to me, considering the only difference is the affection you have for each other!

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/pages/cohabit.aspx

The usual Mumbo Jumbo!!

Apparently they do have inspection teams that have the right to call to your residence.

We've no interest in lying to SW so when they asked about our living arrangements we told the truth. We explained that we are not married but they simply said "that doesn't matter".

As a point of arguement with them we said "so if we come back tomorrow and say we've broken up we can get payments" they said "well, yes, but we can call out to check. It would be unlawful"

kelle

From Link above wrote:

A person may be entitled to an increase for a qualified adult for a person who is not a spouse, provided the couple are cohabiting

Would this help you in any way, or is it only if you're on Social welfare yourself?

Coz

Well we're no legal experts so we asked Citzens Advice about it all.

They were extremely nice and sympathetic but they confirmed there is nothing we can do.

Unfortunately sympathy won't keep us in baked beans.

kelle

Would she do any babysitting jobs to tide her over for a while, or with the Summer holidays coming up and older schoolchildren needing minding there will probably be small ads in the local newsagent looking for short-term minders for them.
Just a thought.

John Mason

i have been on at my local councillors and TD's about having the law changed for years, but as no one else cares why should they

Dublin_Gunner

She should be able to claim jobseekers benefit - the usual 200 a week or so.

I have a friend in a very similar situation (he got let go, she's a nurse earning a fortune) and he can claim it.

prinz

MisterMonkey wrote: »

he asked you to explain in rational terms. the above is clearly not rational

It was perfectly rational. Unless you want a referendum that's how our Bunreacht na hEireann reads so deal with it.


Tough situation OP.However that's the law, there the rules, live with it. A lot of people are struggling in difficult situations.


To the people who proposed lying/defrauding the country:

The social welfare system in this country is being defrauded left, right and centre, and it's the people who are breaking their backs, working and getting shafted that's paying for it.

Just remember the more people claiming welfare, the higher your taxes have to get to pay for it. That's the way of the world.

carolmon

And to add to the confusion OP if you were a cohabiting gay couple you would be treated as two separate flatmates by SW as there is no recognition in law yet for gay couples..............crazy complicated system!

Basically the law is saying that as you are having a sexual relationship with your girlfriend you should support her, SW acknowledged to you that if you split up tomorrow but were still cohabiting she would be entitled to claim in her own right.

Why should we accept this? The ultimate Big Brother scenario, the state policing the bedrooms of Ireland.

Would love to see this challenged as a test case in the European Court of Human Rights, would not think the government has a leg to stand on as we don't become legally bound until marriage............remember if a cohabiting couple split up after years together there is no question of alimony, so effectively there is an acknowledgement that despite the relationship neither adult is economically responsible for the other.

Seems like Social Welfare wants it all ways.

watna

OP, that's terrible. Ireland really is so backward in this regard. I live in NZ and myself and my OH are de facto partners in the eyes of the state - we have the same rights as a married couple (I was even granted permanent residency as a de facto partner of a NZ citizen - when would that ever happen in Ireland without being married? To move back to Ireland my OH and I will need to get married so he is allowed to stay in the country). Yes - this can work against us sometimes (OH should get an allowance for being a student over 25 but it is means tested against my income and I earn just over the threshold) but at least it's consistent.

I wouldn't recommend lying to the social welfare. These things have a hait of biting you in the ass later. If I were you I'd try and take it higher - maybe your TD? That may sound a bit silly but making a fuss and raising it to someone's attention may not help now but it could in the long run and maybe help others.

Is there anything at all you can cut back on? Do you have a second bedroom you could rent out until your gf finds a job?

Joey the lips

You can claim that your a co habiting couple with the tax man and then you can claim her credits. As for the social welfare there is ways arond that problem as well especially as you are not married or declared living together,

Have you considered FIS??? i am not to sure of the requirement but check it out. Get the credits on the tax asap. It makes a difference,

carolmon

Joey the Lips

if you read the whole thread you will see that the issue is that Socail Welfare treats cohabiting couples as married but the Revenue does not...........this is the situation the OP is in.

Joey the lips

carolmon wrote: »

Joey the Lips

if you read the whole thread you will see that the issue is that Socail Welfare treats cohabiting couples as married but the Revenue does not...........this is the situation the OP is in.

Am I wrong? my apologies

dudara

I was in exactly the same situation about two years ago. I was earning and he wasn't. Like fools, we were honest with the SW and got bitten in the ass for it. They deemed that my salary (meagre at the time) was enough to cover both of us, and denied him any assistance (he didn't have enough stamps at the time). We eventually ended up extending a loan in order to have enough cash to survive.

All that took place in the good times. Imagine how many couples are going to be caught by this as unemployment rises.

There must be room for a legal challenge to this system. The two methods of evaluation are at odds with each other. I would definitely encourage anyone who is interested to raise this with their TD or other representative.

Nevyn

carolmon wrote: »

Joey the Lips

if you read the whole thread you will see that the issue is that Socail Welfare treats cohabiting couples as married but the Revenue does not...........this is the situation the OP is in.

The SW will treat a co cohabiting couple as a married couple in some circumstance for means testing ect but will not allow a co cohabiting couple to utilise each others prsi payment like a married couple. The system is broken.

Coz

Thanks for all the advice and comments guys.

I've emailed :

Mary Hanafin
Mary Harney
John Curran
Joanna Tuffy
Paul Gogarty

I'll let you know how I get on!

carolmon

I know that this is really getting off topic for PI but I think it's an issue that needs addressing in an organised political manner as it not only affects the OP.

OP have you thought about organising an online petition to raise awareness and put this on the political agenda for the upcoming local elections?

I know Joanna Tuffy and Paul Gogarty, they represent my area.
Joanna has organised a meeting with Eamon Gilmore for constituents next week and I will make sure this issue is raised.

If you do decide to get anything organised keep us informed (maybe in Politics or State Benefits if not in PI)

Best of luck

Coz

carolmon wrote: »

If you do decide to get anything organised keep us informed (maybe in Politics or State Benefits if not in PI)?

This thread started in Politics but it was moved here

carolmon wrote: »

OP have you thought about organising an online petition to raise awareness and put this on the political agenda for the upcoming local elections?

Can't figure out that petition site but I've just emailed this Motley Crew too:

aengus.osnodaigh@oireachtas.ie; aine.brady@oireachtas.ie; aire@pobail.ie; alan.shatter@oireachtas.ie; andrew.doyle@oireachtas.ie; arthur.morgan@oireachtas.ie; barry.andrews@oireachtas.ie; bernard.allen@oireachtas.ie; bernard.durkan@oireachtas.ie; billy.timmins@oireachtas.ie; billykelleher@eircom.net; bobby.aylward@oireachtas.ie; boshea@eircom.net; brendan.howlin@oireachtas.ie; brian.hayes@oireachtas.ie; bwk@eircom.net; charles.flanagan@oireachtas.ie; charlie.oconnor@oireachtas.ie; chris.andrews@oireachtas.ie; christy.osullivan@oireachtas.ie; ciaran.cuffe@oireachtas.ie; ciaran.lynch@oireachtas.ie; conor.lenihan@oireachtas.ie; cyprian.brady@oireachtas.ie; damien.english@oireachtas.ie; daniel.neville@oireachtas.ie; dara.calleary@oireachtas.ie; darragh.obrien@oireachtas.ie; deirdre.clune@oireachtas.ie; denis.naughten@oireachtas.ie; dick.roche@oireachtas.ie; dinny.mcginley@oireachtas.ie; dstanton@eircom.net; eamon.gilmore@oireachtas.ie; eamon.scanlon@oireachtas.ie; emmet.stagg@oireachtas.ie; enda.kenny@oireachtas.ie; fergus.odowd@oireachtas.ie; finian.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie; frank.fahey@oireachtas.ie; frank.feighan@oireachtas.ie; jack.wall@oireachtas.ie; Jackie.Healy.Rae@oireachtas.ie; james.bannon@oireachtas.ie; james.reilly@oireachtas.ie; jan.osullivan@oireachtas.ie; jdeenihan@eircom.net; jim.mcdaid@oireachtas.ie; jim.okeefe@oireachtas.ie; jimmy.devins@oireachtas.ie; joan.burton@oireachtas.ie; joe.behan@oireachtas.ie; joe.carey@oireachtas.ie; joe.costello@oireachtas.ie; joe.mchugh@oireachtas.ie; john.browne@oireachtas.ie; john.cregan@oireachtas.ie; john.deasy@oireachtas.ie; john.mcguinness@oireachtas.ie; john.moloney@oireachtas.ie; john.odonoghue@oireachtas.ie; john.omahony@oireachtas.ie; john.perry@oireachtas.ie; johnny.brady@oireachtas.ie; kathleen.lynch@oireachtas.ie; kieran.odonnell@oireachtas.ie; leo.varadkar@oireachtas.ie; liz.mcmanus@oireachtas.ie; lucinda.creighton@oireachtas.ie; maire.hoctor@oireachtas.ie; margaret.conlon@oireachtas.ie; martin.ferris@oireachtas.ie; martin.mansergh@oireachtas.ie; mary.orourke@Oireachtas.ie; mary.upton@oireachtas.ie; mary.white@oireachtas.ie; mary_wallace@health.irlgov.ie; mattie.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie; michael.ahern@oireachtas.ie; michael.creed@oireachtas.ie; michael.darcy@oireachtas.ie; michael.finneran@oireachtas.ie; michael.fitzpatrick@oireachtas.ie; michael.higgins@oireachtas.ie; michael.kennedy@oireachtas.ie; michael.kitt@oireachtas.ie; michael.lowry@oireachtas.ie; michael.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie; michael.moynihan.td@oireachtas.ie; michael.mulcahy@oireachtas.ie; michael.noonan@oireachtas.ie; michael.ring@oireachtas.ie; michael.woods@oireachtas.ie; minister.carey@taoiseach.gov.ie; minister.ryan@dcmnr.gov.ie; minister@agriculture.gov.ie; minister@dfa.ie; minister@environ.ie; minister@finance.gov.ie; minister@justice.ie; minister@transport.ie; minister_okeeffe@education.gov.ie; ministersoffice@dast.gov.ie; mj.nolan@oireachtas.ie; niall.blaney@oireachtas.ie; niall.collins@oireachtas.ie; noel.ahern@oireachtas.ie; noel.coonan@oireachtas.ie; noel.grealish@oireachtas.ie; noel.grealish@oireachtas.ie; noel.oflynn@oireachtas.ie; noel.treacy@oireachtas.ie; ocaolain@oireachtas.ie; olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie; olwyn.enright@oireachtas.ie; padraic.mccormack@oireachtas.ie; pat.breen@oireachtas.ie; pat.rabbitte@oireachtas.ie; paul.connaughton@oireachtas.ie; paul.kehoe@oireachtas.ie; peter.kelly@oireachtas.ie; peter.power@oireachtas.ie; philip.hogan@oireachtas.ie; pj.sheehan@oireachtas.ie; richard.bruton@oireachtas.ie; roisin.shortall@oireachtas.ie; rory.ohanlon@oireachtas.ie; ruairi.quinn@oireachtas.ie; seamus.kirk@oireachtas.ie; sean.barrett@oireachtas.ie; sean.connick@oireachtas.ie; sean.fleming@oireachtas.ie; sean.ofearghail@oireachtas.ie; sean.power@oireachtas.ie; sean.sherlock@oireachtas.ie; sean_haughey@education.gov.ie; seymour.crawford@oireachtas.ie; shane.mcentee@oireachtas.ie; simon.coveney@oireachtas.ie; tanaiste@entemp.ie; taoiseach@taoiseach.ie; terence.flanagan@oireachtas.ie; thomas.byrne@oireachtas.ie; thomas.p.broughan@oireachtas.ie; timmy.dooley@oireachtas.ie; tom.hayes@oireachtas.ie; tom.kitt@oireachtas.ie; tom.mcellistrim@oireachtas.ie; tom.sheahan@oireachtas.ie; tom.sheahan@oireachtas.ie; tony.gregory@oireachtas.ie; tony.killeen@oireachtas.ie; trevor.sargent@oireachtas.ie; webmaster@defence.irlgov.ie; willie.penrose@oireachtas.ie;

watna

Good on you OP. Was just discussing this my OH as something to be aware of when we move back to Ireland - it really is just ridiculous. Let us know how you get on!

uoluol

Another anomaly of the Social Welfare system is that a cohabiting couple's income is jointly assessed for most schemes eg unemployment, but - if one partner dies, the surviving partner will not be able to claim widow's/widower's pension. So you could be living with someone all your life, and your partner's wages could affect the amount of JA you get, but should your partner die, the fact that you lived together is totally disregarded.

I always found this to be so unfair, and I can't for the life of me understand why it hasn't been challenged through the courts.

dragona

I think this would cause so much stress that I would have to break up with my partner (though obviously not be able to move out due to finances) and sleep on the sofa :rolleyes:

kelle

dragona wrote: »

I think this would cause so much stress that I would have to break up with my partner (though obviously not be able to move out due to finances) and sleep on the sofa :rolleyes:

Well, according to the link OP sent you need to fulfill 5 criteria for co-habitation:

1.Co-Residence
2.Household Relationship
(a) Finances shared.
(b) Duties shared.
3.Stability
4.Social
5.Sexual


I've been laughing to myself wondering how some of these points would be proved should the situation be checked out.

What if one person was doing all the housework, or the person earning the money was mean and refused to support the other (it happens). That would eliminate point 2 above.

And if you were sleeping on the couch, that would be 3 and 5 gone.

What if you're a couple living together, but saving yourself for the big day! How would an inspector try to prove no.5?

Definitely a crazy system.

LegacyUser

The SW is a joke. I feel for the OP and anyone else dealing with this kind of situation.

My OH and I are cohabiting for a couple of years and when we both started on the dole it wasn't long before we were being assessed. I didn't want to lie to them because you usually get caught out so I was honest & said I was cohabiting and my dole payment was vastly reduced. Totally unfair when you are just cohabiting not actually married or sharing finances! I learned from this to always tell the Social Welfare that you're single. I know a dozen people who are doing it, and single mothers who have their boyfriends living with them.

LegacyUser

The same thing has happened to me,this government hasn't got a clue! I beat the ******* Though! You can get your parntner who is earning, to gift you money and claim the tax credit for this, It's like you are a charity! You have to be carefull to gift enough to make the tax credit worth while but not so much that the gift becomes taxable for the reciever i.e your unemployed partner! The great thing about this is you use the stick they are beating you with to hit back! As far as gift tax is concerned because your are not married your partner is considered a stranger uder law! Is beating them at there own game is great!